Semi- OT: Kick , Snare & Hi-Hat

[Outkaster]

I know the title seems funny to this thread, but it amazes me how many drummers can’t get it together.  One thing about playing cultural music in different styles is you learn what people move to.  It’s especially true in music based on rhythm.  Drums are the only instrument that I feel 60% of the people playing shouldn’t play them.  I have guys in popular bands come up to me and say they are “pocket drummers”. When they say that chances are they just aren’t. Then there are guys with stripped down kits and play kick, snare and hi-hat and crush it.   Many musicians struggle with what their role is in a band, but I find that drummers have a hard time figuring out what they are supposed to be doing out of any of them. They solo through people’s solos, play through changes when they aren’t supposed to , or are just plain terrible at what they do.  When I was in drum corp I played mallet instruments and even in the NAVY because I knew the notes from playing piano. You need to have a good internal clock .  Bands begin and end with a drummer.  Don’t get me wrong there are some great players out there, but I find they are few and far between.   

[K K]

In German :

Hi-Hat = Tschak

Kick = Boom

Snare = Boing

 

 

[Outkaster]

Ok well that isn't what I am talking about.

[RABid]

On 9/8/2023 at 4:55 PM, Outkaster said:

I have guys in popular bands come up to me and say they are “pocket drummers”.

Unfortunately most of them only have one or two pockets. Any other groove and they are working against the pocket. A good example was country night on American Idol. Otherwise great musicians failing horribly with the groove.

[Docbop]

I don't think it's just drummers too many player think busy is good, they don't play the song they play to show off.   Trouble is a lot of the audience is just as bad equating fast and busy as good so it just encourages player to play that way.  Gotta play to the song.  

 

My favorite drummer is Jim Keltner and he can play anything he has the skills, but he guy people get because they want a groove that fits.   One of my early favorite drummers was Al Jackson of Booker T. and the MGs.   Jackson would have toms on his set and rarely hit them he was focused on the groove.   Charlie Watts of the Rolling Stones heald that band together. 

 

Again simple is good. 

[JamPro]

I lived in NY City for many years and got to hear a lot of "street drummers" in the parks and subways.  I heard some really great drummers playing only Hat, Kick, and Snare.  One guy did an act by himself, in the Harlem (125th St.) station, singing reggae and playing with just his minimal kit.  I was impressed with the range of sounds he could get, striking drum surface and sides, as well as his stands.  It looked to me like his kick was actually a floor tom set up sideways with a foot pedal attacked.  He used like both a kick and a tom using only his foot pedal.  I always wanted to join in on keys (which I couldn't do because I need electricity).  I found these drummers very inspirational.   

 

(I hated the "drummers" who would show up with a bunch of 5 gallon tubs for drums.  It sounded horrible, they knew very little about how to be musical, and it was a sonic shit-show.)

[SteveNathan]

I’ve played with so many great drummers, it’s hard to relate to your post. In my experience, I find what you describe common among drummers, guitar players, bass & keyboard players in the “Weekend Warriors “ scene of part time musicians, especially amateur Jazz musicians. 

[SteveNathan]

Took a screenshot of a partial list I compiled a couple years ago, of the drummers I’ve played with.  Clearly I’ve led a charmed life

[KuruPrionz]

19 hours ago, Docbop said:

I don't think it's just drummers too many player think busy is good, they don't play the song they play to show off.   Trouble is a lot of the audience is just as bad equating fast and busy as good so it just encourages player to play that way.  Gotta play to the song.  

 

My favorite drummer is Jim Keltner and he can play anything he has the skills, but he guy people get because they want a groove that fits.   One of my early favorite drummers was Al Jackson of Booker T. and the MGs.   Jackson would have toms on his set and rarely hit them he was focused on the groove.   Charlie Watts of the Rolling Stones heald that band together. 

 

Again simple is good. 

A grooving, simple drummer and a bassist who locks with them is essential for a good band. If you have those you've got a shot at filling the dance floor. 

Drummer and bassist overplay and the audience will sit, drink their drink and go to another place. 

[Mark Schmieder]

Interesting. I have rarely run into a drummer who isn't stellar, but we (wee?) bassists are notorious for getting along with drummers. Guitarists, on the other hand... I could have a hand amputated and still be able to count how many have a proper since of rhythm, especially across genres. But then, guitarists hate bassists.

[Kawai James]

I know this isn't a "post your favourites drummers thread", however I've always appreciated the stripped-down drumming on Vulfpeck's recordings - a lot of the time it is just a kick, snare, high-hat, and occasionally a ride.

 

 

(or a cowbell, as in this example of "It get funky")

 

James

x

 

[Kawai James]

Or this one...
 

 

[Old No7]

21 hours ago, SteveNathan said:

I’ve played with so many great drummers, it’s hard to relate to your post.

 

I had that trouble too; as fortunately, I've not played with any poor drummers... (If they're bad, I move on...)

 

 

On 9/8/2023 at 4:55 PM, Outkaster said:

Bands begin and end with a drummer.

 

And therein lies the problem...

 

 

Bands start and end with a KEYBOARD (at least on this forum, that is!) 😉

 

Old No7

[Outkaster]

23 hours ago, Old No7 said:

 

I had that trouble too; as fortunately, I've not played with any poor drummers... (If they're bad, I move on...)

 

 

 

And therein lies the problem...

 

 

Bands start and end with a KEYBOARD (at least on this forum, that is!) 😉

 

Old No7

So what's your point other than sarcasm. 

[Old No7]

2 minutes ago, Outkaster said:

So what's your point other than sarcasm. 

 

Simple... Don't play with bad drummers!!!

 

Old No7

[Outkaster]

Yeah no doubt. I understand that.  It was more an observation. 

[Threadslayer]

On 9/8/2023 at 1:55 PM, Outkaster said:

Then there are guys with stripped down kits and play kick, snare and hi-hat and crush it.  

^ This, absolutely.^

[SamuelBLupowitz]

I remember the point in my 20s when I realized I didn't have to tolerate playing with bad drummers anymore; that I'd rather not take a gig than play with someone I'd have to fight all night long (I feel this way as a keyboard player but it goes double when I'm playing bass).

 

I've played bass, on and off, with a particular local singer-songwriter for over a decade; most of the rest of his band is a rotating cast. Plenty of nice guys came through the drum chair, but they were always strong in certain grooves and weak in others. Some fresh blood came in and I was all set to move from bass to keys until we played with the new drummer one time and I insisted I keep playing bass so I could finally do the job without having to struggle to keep the pocket.

 

Anyway. A great drummer is nothing to take for granted. The really good ones make you play better, or at least sound like you're better than you are. And a subpar guy can make the best collection of pros sound amateur. I've been lucky enough to play with some incredible musicians behind the kit.

 

That said, I would walk through fire to play with any one of the people on @SteveNathan's list...

[Mark Schmieder]

On 9/11/2023 at 11:22 AM, Old No7 said:

 

I had that trouble too; as fortunately, I've not played with any poor drummers... (If they're bad, I move on...)

 

 

 

And therein lies the problem...

 

 

Bands start and end with a KEYBOARD (at least on this forum, that is!) 😉

 

Old No7

 

I've heard enough bad bands while supporting friends or even as part of  multi-band shows where I'm on the bill, to have a pretty good feel for what are the most critical components of any band, and for me personally, I can tolerate everyone else being bad (even the singer) as long as the drummer is good.

 

When you think about it, music started with drums, then voice. Everything else came later. Or you could argue that human sound started with voice, maybe not all that musical or rhythmic either, then drums came along. Heart and soul, as they say. Everything else is dressing.

 

All I can say is that a bad drummer wrecks even a great vocalist. But as I said, I am hard pressed to think of any bad drummers I've ever worked with, amongst the 200+ (at least) that I have played with over my lifetime. Guitarists, on the other hand... they often dislike good drummers and bassists because they don't want to feel the groove.

[stoken6]

17 hours ago, Mark Schmieder said:

Guitarists, on the other hand... they often dislike good drummers and bassists because they don't want to feel the groove.

Well... there are lots of guitarists out there, so you will always find a lot that fit any description. I've played with lots who love a solid groove (and contribute to one), and plenty for whom volume is the ultimate prize. And many others as well.

 

Cheers, Mike.