Rumors: Yamaha Montage successor

[linwood]

I’ve been playing the M8x for two days now and love it. The sounds and action work well for me. I’ve always liked to have Yamaha, Roland, Korg, and Moog represented in my setup. It’ s been like that since the 70/80’s. The M8x replaced a Motif ES8 that I’ve been sitting at for close to 20 years. I’d been looking for a controller to replace it, but couldn’t find anything I liked and I knew I’d be happy with the new Yamaha under the fingers. The sounds are great and the control you have over them and how quick you can get to what you want is great. It’s easy to play the filters and things in real time.  It only took an hour to adapt to the action, but now we’re old friends. I find that every thing in the M8x responds really well to the keybed ( even clav and B3) as do things like Keyscape and all my other sample libs. It’s wonderful. I’ve got 4 different keyboards in here and all of them feel totally different. Sometimes if I’m playing a synth thing with the Omega 8  I might play it from the Matriarch because I like the action on it. It’s tight and a bit heavier than the JX and I like where the wheels are in relation to your left hand. They’re close and the reach feels natural. Other times I’ll go with the M8x if it’s two fisted. This is a fantastic center piece for “me”. Very happy with it.

[Redknife]

Linwood,

Thanks for early hands on report, especially action. Do you have any thoughts on the new ANX engine sounds? Have you had a go at programming ANX?

26 minutes ago, linwood said:

I’ve been playing the M8x for two days now and love it. The sounds and action work well for me. I’ve always liked to have Yamaha, Roland, Korg, and Moog represented in my setup. It’ s been like that since the 70/80’s. The M8x replaced a Motif ES8 that I’ve been sitting at for close to 20 years. I’d been looking for a controller to replace it, but couldn’t find anything I liked and I knew I’d be happy with the new Yamaha under the fingers. The sounds are great and the control you have over them and how quick you can get to what you want is great. It’s easy to play the filters and things in real time.  It only took an hour to adapt to the action, but now we’re old friends. I find that every thing in the M8x responds really well to the keybed ( even clav and B3) as do things like Keyscape and all my other sample libs. It’s wonderful. I’ve got 4 different keyboards in here and all of them feel totally different. Sometimes if I’m playing a synth thing with the Omega 8  I might play it from the Matriarch because I like the action on it. It’s tight and a bit heavier than the JX and I like where the wheels are in relation to your left hand. They’re close and the reach feels natural. Other times I’ll go with the M8x if it’s two fisted. This is a fantastic center piece for “me”. Very happy with it.

 

[linwood]

The action is quick. When it was still in the box and I had just peeled the paper back and touched it I was kind of surprised. The texture on the sharps is unfamiliar and all. It took a minute to warm up to it. The ANX sounds really nice. I haven't done any programming on it. Just playing and tweaking presets. It's very nice though. Not cheap, but what is these days?

[AnotherScott]

21 minutes ago, linwood said:

 I find that every thing in the M8x responds really well to the keybed ( even clav and B3) as do things like Keyscape and all my other sample libs. It’s wonderful.

Someone at another forum spoke similarly of it, saying, "I got my M8X today...The keybed is amazing...It works beautifully with the poly aftertouch. It feels like a synth when you play synth parts and feels like a piano when you play piano/keys. I almost can't explain it."

 

I understand why some people don't want the 88... too heavy to cart around, too big for their space, little-to-no interest in playing piano and don't want to spend more for something they don't care about... but for those who say it's not a suitable action for the non-piano sounds for which you would want poly-AT, I think it may be good to withhold judgment there, as so far, the only people I've seen saying such a thing are people who haven't played one.

[linwood]

Nothing's for everybody. You gotta find what you can connect with and make music with and run with it. 

[DeltaJockey]

2 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

Someone at another forum spoke similarly of it, saying, "I got my M8X today...The keybed is amazing...It works beautifully with the poly aftertouch. It feels like a synth when you play synth parts and feels like a piano when you play piano/keys. I almost can't explain it."

 

From the above statement, I have to wonder if the electromagnetic sensor tech, (or some other included enabling technology attached to the key), also works in reverse. That is, providing a magnetic flux which is controlled by software, making the dynamic weighting change depending on the performance. If that isn't the case, it would be an interesting way to make variable weighted actions, customized to synth playing vs piano playing.

[dalpozlead]

This will probably get lost in the thread, but I really hope they get rid of the "fake too much processed" sounds....

[ProfD]

30 minutes ago, dalpozlead said:

This will probably get lost in the thread, but I really hope they get rid of the "fake too much processed" sounds....

Huge peeves of mine. Sounds that don't work in a musical context and press a key and a video game soundtrack starts blaring.😁😎

[zephonic]

I'm really trying not to order an m7. If Korg would only hurry up with the Nautilus 73 AT...

[SteveinJersey]

9 hours ago, linwood said:

I’ve been playing the M8x for two days now and love it. The sounds and action work well for me. I’ve always liked to have Yamaha, Roland, Korg, and Moog represented in my setup. It’ s been like that since the 70/80’s. The M8x replaced a Motif ES8 that I’ve been sitting at for close to 20 years. I’d been looking for a controller to replace it, but couldn’t find anything I liked and I knew I’d be happy with the new Yamaha under the fingers. The sounds are great and the control you have over them and how quick you can get to what you want is great. It’s easy to play the filters and things in real time.  It only took an hour to adapt to the action, but now we’re old friends. I find that every thing in the M8x responds really well to the keybed ( even clav and B3) as do things like Keyscape and all my other sample libs. It’s wonderful. I’ve got 4 different keyboards in here and all of them feel totally different. Sometimes if I’m playing a synth thing with the Omega 8  I might play it from the Matriarch because I like the action on it. It’s tight and a bit heavier than the JX and I like where the wheels are in relation to your left hand. They’re close and the reach feels natural. Other times I’ll go with the M8x if it’s two fisted. This is a fantastic center piece for “me”. Very happy with it.

Very encouraging to hear, particularly that you're pleased with the keyboard action on the M8X having had prior experience with an ES8.  I came to this thread specifically to get some insight from someone who has had hands-on experience with both the M8X and an 88 key Motif.  I'm in a similar situation to you.  I've owned a Motif XF8 for quite a few years and am seriously considering selling and replacing it with the M8X, not just for its hopefully higher quality onboard sounds but also as a more up-to-date and capable MIDI controller designed to work better with my late model MacBook M1 Pro running Logic and softsynths like Omnisphere, Pianoteq, SWAM (the Motif's Firewire-based audio interface has become somewhat of a limitation).  At least that's my ambition and hope.   I realize that you've had very limited time with your M8X.  But would you say that the M8X's capabilities are worth parting with one's Motif (cost notwithstanding)?

[linwood]

Hi Steve...In my case it was. My ES8 had never been played outside of my home, but it got played all day long and was just worn out. There was a lot of play and wiggle in the keys in spots. I had replaced some problem keys, but it still bugged me and I put up with it for years.  I don't think I had the audio outs hooked up to anything for the past several years. Maybe 10. I was just using the keyboard. It's so nice having the M8x to play now. The action is light and fast, but solid. The sounds are great. I have a ton of sounds in here already though, to be honest. These are a welcomed addition. I wasn't even thinking about the PAT or wondering if I wanted/needed it. Now though...Man, it's a wonderful thing to have on those CS80 type pads. Beautiful what you can do and express. I wish the sliders would transmit cc like the knobs, but that's not a big deal. I can do that other ways. It's an expense, but over 20 years it's nothin'. Damn near free. 

[SteveinJersey]

7 hours ago, linwood said:

Hi Steve...In my case it was. My ES8 had never been played outside of my home, but it got played all day long and was just worn out. There was a lot of play and wiggle in the keys in spots. I had replaced some problem keys, but it still bugged me and I put up with it for years.  I don't think I had the audio outs hooked up to anything for the past several years. Maybe 10. I was just using the keyboard. It's so nice having the M8x to play now. The action is light and fast, but solid. The sounds are great. I have a ton of sounds in here already though, to be honest. These are a welcomed addition. I wasn't even thinking about the PAT or wondering if I wanted/needed it. Now though...Man, it's a wonderful thing to have on those CS80 type pads. Beautiful what you can do and express. I wish the sliders would transmit cc like the knobs, but that's not a big deal. I can do that other ways. It's an expense, but over 20 years it's nothin'. Damn near free. 

Once again, thanks for your response and I'm glad to hear this.  It has me champing at the bit to get an opportunity to try one out.   One last question:  I take it from your comments that you likely did not use the onboard sequencing or sampler capabilities of the ES, and thus do not miss not having similar onboard capabilities on the Montage? 

[linwood]

You are correct. I don't do any seq or sampling with workstations.

[Docbop]

 

[DeltaJockey]

Well, my M8x was delivered yesterday! I had a bit of a heart in the throat moment at first. When the delivery person pulled it out of the truck, there were two holes in the carton where the forklift teens had penetrated. I was really hoping I wouldn't be waiting for another one. Interestingly, the Montage came direct from the Yamaha distributor.

Anyway, luckily it had missed the synth by a small margin, and when pulling it out of the box it was in perfect condition ☺️

 

My first impressions...

I really love the darker casing, (was getting a bit tired of the older metallic grey). It contrasts well with the white and red lettering and the array of colored lights. It's the same dimensions exactly as my old Montage8, so slotted into it's new home with no mods to the cabling runs at all. Still looks like the mother ship.

 

To address some of the chatter about the display. The main display resolution in my opinion, is absolutely fine, I don't think there was any need for a higher resolution than previous. The font sizes are great to my ageing eyes. I love the new browser format, so much easier to scroll through. Much of the other screen info is similar to the previous, only different colors. The background is now black rather than grey. Definitely and improvement there.

 

The action is as others have said, very nice. It's quick, solid and responsive. Interesting, I see a bit of a trend in keybed feel emerging in the industry. It has a similar free dynamic momentum to the keys... like my Numa X GT. To me, there are more similarities than differences to the Numa X GT. It is a bit noisier on the bottoming than the old Montage BHE, but not of concern to me. There are more velocity curves than the older action. The PAT has a number of pressure settings too. It's too early to tell how much I'll like the action, but my gut feeling is that I will not look back.

I can definitely tell that there aren't any rubber sensors. There's no subtle rubbery sticky feel/sound when pressure comes of the keys like the older actions.

Trills seem about the same as my other 3 sensor actions, (not that I'm overly skilled at this), but they are easier to achieve than on the BHE.

 

The uprgraded DAC audio performance is detectable to my ears. I have the M8x plugged directly into a set of Genelec 8040's. The sound has noticeably less distortion, with a very clear solid punch. Phase linearity is obviously also improved, as the stereo imaging is just spectacular! Especially the upper bass, lower mids.

 

Most of my old favorite performances are still onboard, but I think a few are missing, (unless I haven't found them yet), so will have to load them as user libraries. Some of the old performances have had a few tweaks, and sound a bit different.

Am I glad I upgraded? Well yes, I think I've benefited from enough improvements to justify the expense. As long as I can manage to recover some of the expenditure by selling my old M8.

 

I haven't any time yet to delve into the ANx. The presets certainly sound nice, and to my ears are certainly differentiated from sampled analog! Both in sound and control.

 

Now that I have the beast in my hands, I don't think any speculative criticism  that's occurred is justified. It is nice machine, and has enough improvements to be considered a successor to the old Montage.

 

BTW, when I first turned it on, I forgot about the fan conversations. I had been playing around with it for a hour, then remembered about it. I had to put my ear to the casing to hear it, and at first thought, is there a fan or not, I think there is. Like all smart systems these days, it's intelligently controlled and may not always be running.

 

So, just my very quick first impressions, and just my own opinions on the the attributes which are important to me.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[miden]

Does the 7 have the P.A.T.?

[David Barrickman]

35 minutes ago, miden said:

Does the 7 have the P.A.T.?

No the M7 and M6 both don’t have it unfortunately…uggh…and the M8x still weighs over 60lbs…

However the 6 and 7 WILL respond to P.A.T. from an external keyboard controller/synth which supports it (ASM Hydrasynth and the new KORG keyboard controllers are two examples of what’s available now).

[TJ Cornish]

My last Yamaha workstation was the EX5, so I’m a little out of date.

 

Now that there are a few Montage Ms in the wild, I’m wondering if anyone can help with some specific questions I haven’t seen answers to.

 

1. Is there an easy way to configure a click track via an assignable button? I run click for my band on my Fantom and Kronos via an alternate output. On the Kronos I do this via the Drum Track function; on the Fantom I use the built-in metronome function via an assignable button. Can the Yamaha do this? I don’t want to have to make sequences for this.

 

2. In the new organ mode, is there a way to flip between part volume and organ sliders in a performance? On both the Kronos and Fantom there is a way to do this so you can effectively have organ as one of several sounds but still have control.

 

3. Are there limitations of organ mode or any other special modes that make certain things have to be in certain performance slots? I think I heard that the rotary sim only works in part 1 of a performance?

 

4. To access the second 128 notes of polyphony, I believe you need to be using user samples. If I got a sample library like Easy Sounds Analog Experience, would that achieve this?

 

5. The 128 preset and 128 user polyphony groups - are those 128 stereo voices each or 128 mono voices each? I’m trying to compare this to effective polyphony relative to the Fantom’s 256 mono voices augmented by VPiano and to the Kronos.

 

Thanks in advance!

 

[miden]

12 hours ago, David Barrickman said:

No the M7 and M6 both don’t have it unfortunately…uggh…and the M8x still weighs over 60lbs…

However the 6 and 7 WILL respond to P.A.T. from an external keyboard controller/synth which supports it (ASM Hydrasynth and the new KORG keyboard controllers are two examples of what’s available now).

Thanks, that is a shame

[DmitryKo]

 

 

17 hours ago, TJ Cornish said:

1. Is there an easy way to configure a click track via an assignable button? I run click for my band on my Fantom and Kronos via an alternate output.

 

You can set the metronome to Always click mode in your Performance, not just during sequencer playback/record, and you can select the audio output for the click sound (Main and Assignable outs or USB audio, stereo or mono) on the Tempo Settings screen accessible with the Tempo/Tap button.

 

MONTAGE M Operation Manual | Screens and parameters | Utility screen 

https://manual.yamaha.com/mi/synth/montage_m/en/om02screenparameters0320.html#link15

 

You cannot control it with an assignable button though.

 

 

17 hours ago, TJ Cornish said:

2. In the new organ mode, is there a way to flip between part volume and organ sliders in a performance?

 

Yes, it's just the Slider Direction setting in Part Common Edit.

 

MONTAGE M Operation Manual | Screens and parameters | Part Edit (AWM2) screen | Part Common Edit

https://manual.yamaha.com/mi/synth/montage_m/en/om02screenparameters0080.html#link25

 

 

17 hours ago, TJ Cornish said:

3.  I think I heard that the rotary sim only works in part 1 of a performance?

 

Yes, VCM Rotary is only available for Part 1.

 

https://manual.yamaha.com/mi/synth/montage_m/en/om02screenparameters0080.html#link09

 

 

17 hours ago, TJ Cornish said:

4. To access the second 128 notes of polyphony, I believe you need to be using user samples. If I got a sample library like Easy Sounds Analog Experience, would that achieve this?

5.  are those 128 stereo voices each or 128 mono voices each?

 

4. Correct. Analog Xperience includes 262 MBytes of samples, so it will use that separate 128-voice polyphony available for User Waveform flash memory.

 

MONTAGE 'Analog Xperience' (Download) | Yamaha MONTAGE Premium Series | Yamaha Synthesizer | EASY SOUNDS Shop

https://easysoundsshop.de/en/yamaha-synthesizer/yamaha-montage-premium-series/36/montage-analog-xperience-download

 

5. These are 128 stereo voices.

 

[TJ Cornish]

Thank you for the answers and your time putting together reference guide links. Just a followup on the click question as I did find that page in the guide previously and it doesn't seem to indicate what I'm after - I don't want it always running; that would drive everyone nuts. I would like to be able to trigger "playback" of the metronome without actually having a sequence playing, and ideally with an assignable button on the left side of the keyboard, rather than the play transport button in the middle. Does it work this way or do I have to actually have a sequence for "playback" to work?

 

Alternatively, is there an easy way to dedicate like part 9 to be a rhythm track that is just part of my template Performance, and if so, can I assign an assignable button to trigger this rhythm track?

 

Thanks for the other answers. On the Fantom, VPiano only works in slot 1 and the tone wheel organ only works in slot 2. It would be nice if I could select which part the VCM effect could work in even if it were limited to just one instance at a time, but this wouldn't be a deal breaker; just not how I usually lay things out.

 

I appreciate your time,

TJ

[DmitryKo]

4 hours ago, TJ Cornish said:

 I don't want it always running; that would drive everyone nuts. I would like to be able to trigger "playback" of the metronome without actually having a sequence playing,

 

This is a global Utility Tempo setting for the Performance mode, you don't have to run the sequencer to hear the clicks. It's not a separate operation mode, the sequencer works within the selected Performance.

 

There is no way to set up a dedicated button to control the click sound, you need to press the Tempo/Tap button and change the Mode or Volume parameter on the screen.

 

 

If you absolutely need push-button operation, there are external digital metronomes that can be had for under $50, provided you don't need tempo-synced parameters for LFOs, effects, arps, or Motion Sequences on the Montage M.

 

https://www.musicradar.com/news/best-metronomes

 

 

4 hours ago, TJ Cornish said:

is there an easy way to dedicate like part 9 to be a rhythm track that is just part of my template Performance, and if so, can I assign an assignable button to trigger this rhythm track?j

 

If you recorded or loaded a click track pattern and assigned it to one of the Scene buttons, you can use a different Scene button to select an empty pattern while the sequencer is playing. You can also use Part Group 1-16 button and respective Mute buttons to mute Parts 9-16. 

A more convenient way would be to simply set the Click mode to Playback and start/stop the sequencer with the dedicated buttons. 

 

 

BTW there are no assignable buttons that can be set to user-defined functions in the OS. The ASSIGN1/ASSIGN2 buttons on the far left are for eXpanded Articulation control only.

 

Mastering MODX: Assignable Switches 1&2 - Yamaha Synth

https://yamahasynth.com/learn/modx/assignable-switches-1-2-mastering-modx

 

 

 

[Redknife]

New all playing video today from Anderson’s.

 

[TJ Cornish]

1 hour ago, DmitryKo said:

 

This is a global Utility Tempo setting for the Performance mode, you don't have to run the sequencer to hear the click. It's not a separate operation mode, the sequencer works within the selected Performance.

 

There is no way to set up a dedicated button to control the click sound, you need to press the Tempo/Tap button and change the Mode or Volume parameter on the screen.

 

 

If you absolutely need push-button operation, there are external digital metronomes that can be had for under $50, provided you don't need tempo-synced parameters for LFOs, effects, arps, or Motion Sequences on the Montage M.

 

https://www.musicradar.com/news/best-metronomes

 

 

 

If you recorded or loaded a click track pattern and assigned it to one of the Scene buttons, you can use a different Scene buttons to select an empty pattern while the sequencer is playing. You can also use Part Group 1-16 button and respective Mute buttons to mute Parts 9-16. 

A more convenient way would be to simply set the Click mode to Playback and start/stop the sequencer with the dedicated buttons. 

 

 

BTW there are no assignable buttons that can be set to user-defined functions in the OS. The ASSIGN1/ASSIGN2 buttons on the far left are for eXpanded Articulation control only.

 

Mastering MODX: Assignable Switches 1&2 - Yamaha Synth

https://yamahasynth.com/learn/modx/assignable-switches-1-2-mastering-modx

 

 

 

Thank you for this additional detail.

 

I had a few minutes to run to a store earlier today. As I mentioned above, it’s been a long time since I’ve had a Yamaha board, so here are my thoughts coming from Fantom/Kronos:

 

Physical size - good grief this is huge. I expect the complaints of 60lbs are as much about the huge size that weight is distributed over as much as the weight itself. It is thick! The M8x action is slower than I expected. It’s not bad and I think I could get used to it, but I would have thought it would retrigger a bit faster. I did like PAT - I could see that being useful.

 

I have no doubt the board sounds great - I was evaluating it less from a sounds perspective as from a control and operational perspective. There are a LOT of modes for the sliders/knobs, and I didn’t fully get the hang of them in the 20 or so minutes I could spare to play it. Physical controls were very nice - the board feels extremely solid. 

 

I struggled with tone wheel organ patches - I understand this isn’t a focus of this board, but all of the factory ones were laid out oddly.

 

I spent the vast majority of my time playing with the metronome. Starting and stopping the metronome via the transport control buttons works even with an empty pattern which is good, however I couldn’t find a way to turn off the downbeat accent, meaning I have to care about measures and time signatures rather than just beats. I saw the time signature field, but it was grayed out and I never did figure out how to change it from 4/4. For my usage, this probably isn’t good enough, so I would have to pursue the manual pattern option in performance slot 9 thing. I don’t think this is a deal breaker - it’s closer to how I had to implement this on the Kronos, but it highlights a really simple feature that the Fantom has where in about two button presses it works exactly the way I want it.

 

My personal financial situation isn’t great at the moment so bringing one home today wasn’t ever the intent, but I confess lack of funds wasn’t the only barrier for me today. I have no doubt this is a great board and with time I would conform it to my will (and maybe vice versa), but there were enough oddities that made it not a slam dunk for me. 

[SteveinJersey]

7 hours ago, TJ Cornish said:

"The M8x action is slower than I expected. It’s not bad and I think I could get used to it, but I would have thought it would retrigger a bit faster."

Interesting.  I had the exact same reaction when I tested the Montage M8X keyboard a few days ago.  Like you, getting a feel for the keyboard's action - more specifically how it compared to my ten year old Motif XF8 - was the primary reason I went to a nearby store to try it out.  More important to me actually than trying out the sounds (which were excellent BTW).   Among the things I did to get a feel for the Montage's responsiveness was to test its retrigger speed by rapidly playing a single note at various points along the keyboard.  While this certainly doesn't qualify as a scientific test by any means, I came away somewhat disappointed in that if anything the keyboard seemed slightly LESS responsive to me than my Motif.  I wonder if changing velocity sensitivity might have an impact on this (didn't get the chance to try that)?  On the flip side, aftertouch was excellent, as you stated. 

[TJ Cornish]

5 minutes ago, SteveinJersey said:

Interesting.  I had the exact same reaction when I tested the Montage M8X keyboard last weekend.  Like you, getting a feel for the keyboard's action - more specifically how it compared to my ten year old Motif XF8 - was the primary reason I went to a nearby store to try it out.  More important to me actually than trying out the sounds.   One of the first things I did to get a feel for the Montage's action was to test retrigger speed by rapidly repeating a single key at various points along the keyboard.  Though it certainly wasn't a scientific test,  I came away somewhat disappointed in that if anything the keyboard seemed slightly LESS responsive than my Motif.  On the flip side, aftertouch was excellent, as you stated.  

I’m glad to find a kindred spirit in someone who agrees that things other than sonic purity also matter.  

 

My Fantom is a 7, so I’ve been on a synth action for a while. My Kronos is the 88 key. I tried the Fantom 8 and immediately passed due to the fact that every key required a sledgehammer’s force; conversely I loved the Fantom 7 action. The M8x action is lighter than the Fantom 8, and that may be where some of the reviewers are coming from who say it’s “light”, but those who say the action works for organ don’t play a lot of organ. I played organ on the Kronos 88 for many years; it sort of works - better than the Montage M anyway, but after I got an XK-5, I have never looked back.

 

I want to give the Montage another look in 6 months. I will hopefully be in a better place and maybe some things will be sorted out with sample libraries updated for the M (I know the original Montage samples do work but aren’t optimized for the new stuff), and maybe an OS update or two. It’s clearly a worthy board, but not quite enough to dethrone the Fantom for what I care about.

[David Barrickman]

11 hours ago, miden said:

Thanks, that is a shame

You’re welcome, sorry to have to share, it’s a shame indeed!

[DmitryKo]

Demo of Montage M performances designed by Easy Sounds designers

 

YAMAHA MONTAGE M Audition Demos - AN-X Performances | Easy Sounds

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yvsiHdd0Ow

 

 

 

YAMAHA MONTAGE M Audition Demos - Multi Part Performances | Easy Sounds

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aG31Xzl8vc0

 

 

 

 

 

Montage M side by side comparison to the original Montage 

 

Yamaha Montage M vs Yamaha Montage | No Talking | DKS SYNTH LAB

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ykvlebzirkc

 

 

[Jose EB5AGV]

Has this to do with what Matt Johnson talked some time ago about a secret collaboration with Yamaha?

 

 

[Stokely]

The Mx 8 is way too heavy for me to gig with, and it would be a fancy controller for home use as I'm all software.

Poly aftertouch would have gotten me interested in the 6 or 7.   I think my next keyboard--big or small, controller or keyboard--will have poly AT, it's something I've always been curious about.   So for me this is an unfortunate omission on their part, but I guess they did the math and thought their sales wouldn't be hurt by it.