ElmerJFudd Posted August 25, 2023 Share Posted August 25, 2023 Some of the Fantoms to be discontinued as well… Rumor at the moment, looking for confirmation… ———- Fantom 6,7,8 Jupiter X Juno X System 8 end of the line based on Thomann no longer carrying. Search Results - Page 1 - "Roland Jupiter X" – Thomann United States (thomannmusic.com) Search Results - Page 1 - "Roland Juno X" – Thomann United States (thomannmusic.com) Quote Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElmerJFudd Posted August 25, 2023 Author Share Posted August 25, 2023 I’m hoping for a quality controller at a fair price that is designed perfectly to run and interface the Roland Cloud on your own laptop where the user can choose to subscribe to a tier or buy licenses for what they want/need and skip what they don’t. Strangely, two PHA-4 offerings, A88mkII and RD88, are the same price. Does the RD88's DSP needed to run the sound engine internally cost nothing compared to the processor on a dumb controller like the A88mkII? Quote Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artomas Posted August 25, 2023 Share Posted August 25, 2023 What? Seems like Juno X and Fantom Oh just came out, maybe a year ago? I must be getting older faster than ever. Oh boy... EDIT: oh, you mean the big Fantom. Still... Juno X? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Alfredson Posted August 25, 2023 Share Posted August 25, 2023 The Juno X sounds great. If I didn't already have too many real analog polys, I would consider it. A lot of bang for the buck. Quote Keep it greazy! B3tles - Soul Jazz THEO - Prog Rock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElmerJFudd Posted August 25, 2023 Author Share Posted August 25, 2023 The Juno-X has only been around since April of 2022. I'm guessing if they won't be building anymore that they haven't had the expected sales. Or there is some major shift happening. But this is rumor. Waiting for an official announcement. Quote Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABECK Posted August 25, 2023 Share Posted August 25, 2023 Is the ENV still shared by the filter and amp, or did they implement a way to have multiple envelopes? Either way, surprised to see it on the chopping block. Maybe a $1500 price point would have generated more sales. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Franz Schiller Posted August 25, 2023 Share Posted August 25, 2023 16 minutes ago, ABECK said: Maybe a $1500 price point would have generated more sales. Agreed, I'd be interested if it was a bit cheaper. Same with Jupiter-X. Seems a bit expensive compared to say, a Novation Summit or Kurzweil PC4-7. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherScott Posted August 25, 2023 Share Posted August 25, 2023 1 hour ago, ElmerJFudd said: Strangely, two PHA-4 offerings, A88mkII and RD88, are the same price. Does the RD88's DSP needed to run the sound engine internally cost nothing compared to the processor on a dumb controller like the A88mkII? I don't know what all the differences are, but also, for whatever reason, the A88 weighs something like 9 lbs more. Quote Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M_G Posted August 25, 2023 Share Posted August 25, 2023 Other stores here in Germany still have them in stock. Just today I talked with my dealer (NOT Thomann) regarding some gear. I got my Fantom 8 from there last May. No word about the Rolands are discontiunued. I would not be the first "fight" between Thomann and a Vendor/Distributor! Quote Studio: Hammond XK5-XLK5, Roland Fantom 8, Prophet 5, Roland SE02, Neo Vent, HX3-Expander, Yamaha Montage M7 Live: Yamaha CP88, Hammond SKX Pro, Hammond XB2-HX3, Roland Fantom 07, Roland SA1000, Neo Vent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElmerJFudd Posted August 25, 2023 Author Share Posted August 25, 2023 Strange for all the models listed to not be available but still selling Fantom-0’s and Jupiter-Xm. 🤷♂️ Quote Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill H. Posted August 25, 2023 Share Posted August 25, 2023 2 hours ago, ABECK said: Is the ENV still shared by the filter and amp, or did they implement a way to have multiple envelopes? Either way, surprised to see it on the chopping block. Maybe a $1500 price point would have generated more sales. The Juno-X follows the same signal flow as the Juno-106, with an added pitch envelope for creating hoovers, lasers and other sci-fi sounds. Unfortunately, you can’t alter the amp envelope and filter envelope independently, which means the filter and amp share a single ADSR envelope. - Musictech review The primary draw of Roland's original Junos was their utter simplicity. Their most memorable trait was completely destroyed by the Juno X - a complex mumbo jumbo of Zencore models onboard, in the cloud, parts, scenes, a gazillion options... all addressed from a way too small screen. It was a product seemingly designed to fail. Roland would have been much better off if they'd kept it an updated Juno with a few things we all wanted back then - like a second oscillator and envelope generator - coupled with an appropriate reduction in price. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibarch Posted August 25, 2023 Share Posted August 25, 2023 5 hours ago, ElmerJFudd said: Strangely, two PHA-4 offerings, A88mkII and RD88, are the same price. Does the RD88's DSP needed to run the sound engine internally cost nothing compared to the processor on a dumb controller like the A88mkII? There are 3 variations of the PHA-4 action if I remember correctly. The A88 has a higher spec than the RD-88 which is the one reason for the weight difference. Additionally, I would speculate that there is very little competition in the market for a top quality 88 note controller with proper weighted keyboard. Hence Roland can charge a premium price for the A88 Whereas the market for 88 note lightweight piano / stage piano with weighted keyboard is much more competitive so commercial pressures mean the RD-88 is sold at a much lower price point. Whatever the reasons, I think the A88 way over priced and the RD-88 fantastic value. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibarch Posted August 25, 2023 Share Posted August 25, 2023 5 hours ago, ElmerJFudd said: I’m hoping for a quality controller at a fair price that is designed perfectly to run and interface the Roland Cloud on your own laptop where the user can choose to subscribe to a tier or buy licenses for what they want/need and skip what they don’t. I am struggling to visualise what such an interface would look like. The cloud contains emulations of multiple different synths / romplers, and drum machines. Some rack modules. And then there is the Zenology Pro Synth and its expansion models of synths too. Are you thinking that a controller would morph into the selected synth interface? Would this be all touch screen or would it need knobs, sliders and pads with dynamic labels and automatic layout maps? How about some kind of on board browser / librarian function to navigate, tag and organise the various sound libraries? Am I on the right lines? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElmerJFudd Posted August 25, 2023 Author Share Posted August 25, 2023 35 minutes ago, Ibarch said: I am struggling to visualise what such an interface would look like. The cloud contains emulations of multiple different synths / romplers, and drum machines. Some rack modules. And then there is the Zenology Pro Synth and its expansion models of synths too. Are you thinking that a controller would morph into the selected synth interface? Would this be all touch screen or would it need knobs, sliders and pads with dynamic labels and automatic layout maps? How about some kind of on board browser / librarian function to navigate, tag and organise the various sound libraries? Am I on the right lines? Theoretically like Native Instrument’s controllers but for Roland Cloud. Yes, everything already mapped and a touch screen so it’s the same software GUI you see when using it on desktop. I don’t know what UI they would dream up. But they’d have to make intuitive. Quote Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Bryce Posted August 25, 2023 Share Posted August 25, 2023 I quite like my JP-X. Not sure what they’d wanna do to replace it…except maybe take the crap onboard sound system out. 🤔😆 dB 1 Quote ==> David Bryce Music • Funky Young Monks <== Professional Affiliations: Royer Labs • Music Player Network Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niacin Posted August 26, 2023 Share Posted August 26, 2023 i just bought an RD88, prices are down from 12 months ago, there’s a couple of stores here in Australia selling them stupid cheap, sales guy i spoke to said stores ordered stuff during Covid that then got backlogged due to supply chain issues and now the supply chain is working again suddenly everyone has stuff in stock and we have an economic downturn. Bringing new products to market of course takes rather longer term planning, but maybe Roland is cutting some losses. Quote Gig keys: Hammond SKpro, Korg Vox Continental, Crumar Mojo 61, Crumar Mojo Pedals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyberGene Posted August 26, 2023 Share Posted August 26, 2023 I once ordered a Jupiter XM that was backordered and while I waited for availability I started reading the manual. The things looked so complicated while at the same time there’s just a tiny screen to control that complexity, that I canceled my order. It’s just too expensive for what it is IMO. I guess the bigger brother Jupiter X is better with more hands-on control but it’s still the same mess of Zen-Core that you control on a small screen. I also read that the aftertouch on the Jupiter-X is hard to control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zephonic Posted August 26, 2023 Share Posted August 26, 2023 18 hours ago, ElmerJFudd said: Strange for all the models listed to not be available but still selling Fantom-0’s and Jupiter-Xm. 🤷♂️ As a rule of thumb, I take SW site as a reliable indicator of what’s EOL’d. All models mentioned are still up for sale there. Quote local: Korg Nautilus 61 AT | Yamaha MODX8 away: GigPerformer | 16" MBP M1 Max home: Kawai RX-2 | Korg D1 | Roland Fantom X7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konnector Posted August 26, 2023 Share Posted August 26, 2023 Seems a little odd that they'd be punting those products so soon. Roland has a ton of overlap with their products and sound sets though. They're not alone on that, but it's time for them to present something new and exciting. Maybe they think so as well. (One can only hope!) I thought they were on to something with the SE-02. I might have purchased one if it wasn't so tiny. 19" rack format would've provided that extra space that everyone wanted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RABid Posted August 26, 2023 Share Posted August 26, 2023 You know, Sweetwater went through a long spell where anything out of stock would not show up on a search. It did not mean items were discontinued, only out of stock. 1 Quote This post edited for speling. My Sweetwater Gear Exchange Page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RABid Posted August 26, 2023 Share Posted August 26, 2023 10 hours ago, CyberGene said: I once ordered a Jupiter XM that was backordered and while I waited for availability I started reading the manual. The things looked so complicated while at the same time there’s just a tiny screen to control that complexity, that I canceled my order. I bought the Jupiter Xm with plans to sell it whenever I got a Jupiter X. It does have a steep learning curve, but wow, great sound and LOADS of polyphony. Got the Jupiter X but decided to also keep the Xm. It works great in conjunction with an Elektron box or MPC. Just the right size for a DAWless setup. The Xm is very popular in DAWless circles. Quote This post edited for speling. My Sweetwater Gear Exchange Page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyberGene Posted August 26, 2023 Share Posted August 26, 2023 16 minutes ago, RABid said: Just the right size for a DAWless setup. The Xm is very popular in DAWless circles. That was my intent too. On the other hand, after some experimentation, I’ve finally settled on a hybrid between DAW-ful and DAW-less setup for the project I have with two other guys: I use an iPad Mini 6 with Logic Pro and arrangements that I’ve sequenced in advance but I also control virtual instruments within Logic through my Numa X Piano 73 that is also a USB audio interface, so basically it’s a setup that’s very similar to the Jupiter X or Xm. Of course, I lack direct synth controls which is why when I’m in the mood I also bring my Sequential Take 5 but honestly I think I’m gonna sell it. One needs direct controls when programming patches. For live playing I use an expression pedal and the mod-joysticks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zxcvbnm098 Posted August 26, 2023 Share Posted August 26, 2023 Don't forget we have the first full NAMM show since 2020 coming up in only about 3 1/2 months. I don't know anything about the Roland's, but it wouldn't surprise me if some products start to sunset in preparation for new/updated things that have been on the back burner due to Covid.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElmerJFudd Posted August 26, 2023 Author Share Posted August 26, 2023 2 hours ago, CyberGene said: That was my intent too. On the other hand, after some experimentation, I’ve finally settled on a hybrid between DAW-ful and DAW-less setup for the project I have with two other guys: I use an iPad Mini 6 with Logic Pro and arrangements that I’ve sequenced in advance but I also control virtual instruments within Logic through my Numa X Piano 73 that is also a USB audio interface, so basically it’s a setup that’s very similar to the Jupiter X or Xm. Of course, I lack direct synth controls which is why when I’m in the mood I also bring my Sequential Take 5 but honestly I think I’m gonna sell it. One needs direct controls when programming patches. For live playing I use an expression pedal and the mod-joysticks. Price wise, the Xm is probably the most cost effective way to have access to most of Roland's sound engines in one piece of hardware. The trade off is the mini keys and the lack of a decent sized screen. But it's fairly knobby and only needs batteries to use anywhere. You get a more potent setup with Roland Cloud, a laptop and a keyboard controller. Depending how you do your shopping, you can possibly get under the cost of the Xm or go way over it. Quote Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sam6599643 Posted August 27, 2023 Share Posted August 27, 2023 On 8/25/2023 at 6:49 PM, ElmerJFudd said: Some of the Fantoms to be discontinued as well… Rumor at the moment, looking for confirmation… ———- Fantom 6,7,8 Jupiter X Juno X System 8 end of the line based on Thomann no longer carrying. Search Results - Page 1 - "Roland Jupiter X" – Thomann United States (thomannmusic.com) Search Results - Page 1 - "Roland Juno X" – Thomann United States (thomannmusic.com) Roland is clearing the decks to make space for new line to compete with the new Montage replacement from Yamaha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty Motif Max Posted August 27, 2023 Share Posted August 27, 2023 I read a few month ago on one of the Fantom Facebook groups that there was supposed to be another OS update coming for the regular Fantom 6/7/8 this Fall...was supposed to be from an official source. Perhaps Roland will do what they did with the TD-17 drums - have a new Fantom but also an update that makes the current Fantom equivalent (the TD-17 had a V2.0 update like this). Quote Yamaha: Motif XF8, MODX7, YS200, CVP-305, CLP-130, YPG-235, PSR-295, PSS-470 | Roland: Fantom 7, JV-1000 Kurzweil: PC3-76| Hammond: SK Pro 73 | Korg: Triton LE 76, N1R, X5DR | Emu: Proteus/1 | Casio: CT-370 | Novation: Launchkey 37 MK3 | Technics: WSA1R Former: Emu Proformance Plus & Mo'Phatt, Korg Krome 61, Roland Fantom XR & JV-1010, Yamaha MX61, Behringer CAT, Kurzweil PC4 (88) Assorted electric & acoustic guitars and electric basses | Roland TD-17 KVX | Alesis SamplePad Pro | Assorted organs, accordions, other instruments Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chummy Posted August 27, 2023 Share Posted August 27, 2023 On 8/25/2023 at 7:49 PM, ElmerJFudd said: Some of the Fantoms to be discontinued as well… Rumor at the moment, looking for confirmation… ———- Fantom 6,7,8 Jupiter X Juno X System 8 end of the line based on Thomann no longer carrying. Search Results - Page 1 - "Roland Jupiter X" – Thomann United States (thomannmusic.com) Search Results - Page 1 - "Roland Juno X" – Thomann United States (thomannmusic.com) Just checked at Thomann, not a single Roland synth appears in the search, Maybe a boutique and a drum machine - but not a single Hardware keyboard synth, Fantoms, Jupiters, Juno-x AND EVEN Juno DS are not available. Weird that all of them are out ! The VR-730 is there, but it's not a "Synth" or a "workstation" Quote Catch me on YouTube for 200 IQ piano covers, musical trivia quizzes, tutorials, reviews and other fun stuff... https://www.youtube.com/p1anoyc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElmerJFudd Posted August 27, 2023 Author Share Posted August 27, 2023 5 hours ago, Chummy said: Just checked at Thomann, not a single Roland synth appears in the search, Maybe a boutique and a drum machine - but not a single Hardware keyboard synth, Fantoms, Jupiters, Juno-x AND EVEN Juno DS are not available. Weird that all of them are out ! The VR-730 is there, but it's not a "Synth" or a "workstation" This morning EST it says that Fantom 06 is back ordered for 3-4 weeks. And Fantom 08 is sold out. System 8 is sold out. Yeah, I don’t know what is going on with Thomann and Roland. We do know Roland offered rebates on all these instruments this summer in the US. 1 Quote Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RABid Posted August 27, 2023 Share Posted August 27, 2023 It is about time for a new Fantom, but the Juno X is a strong seller. See no reason they would even think about ending it. Quote This post edited for speling. My Sweetwater Gear Exchange Page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sam6599643 Posted August 28, 2023 Share Posted August 28, 2023 17 hours ago, RABid said: It is about time for a new Fantom, but the Juno X is a strong seller. See no reason they would even think about ending it. Actually the Juno-X (which seemed to come to market very late on curve in the neo-synthwave pop culture trend) did not look like that strong a seller last I checked in the Thomann product sales rankings earlier this year. Nor did the Jupiter X. Nor the Fantom plattform. I suspect that all those product have not met expectations, as they are supposed to be cash cows in the Roland linduk, basically rehashing old hits at high prices. It is their mini-synth boxes that are the ones selling well, but at a lower price point than these full size synths. Meanwhile, Yamaha is killing it with the recent CK at the mid-lower end, plus the PSR. And I’d think a new Montage would put a hurt on Fantom sales. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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