Rumor: Roland ditching Jupiter-X and Juno-X, something brewing?

[ElmerJFudd]

Some of the Fantoms to be discontinued as well…
 

Rumor at the moment, looking for confirmation… 

———-

 

Fantom 6,7,8

Jupiter X

Juno X 

System 8 

 

end of the line based on Thomann no longer carrying. 

 

Search Results - Page 1 - "Roland Jupiter X" – Thomann United States (thomannmusic.com)

 

Search Results - Page 1 - "Roland Juno X" – Thomann United States (thomannmusic.com)

[ElmerJFudd]

I’m hoping for a quality controller at a fair price that is designed perfectly to run and interface the Roland Cloud on your own laptop where the user can choose to subscribe to a tier or buy licenses for what they want/need and skip what they don’t.  

 

Strangely, two PHA-4 offerings, A88mkII and RD88, are the same price.  Does the RD88's DSP needed to run the sound engine internally cost nothing compared to the processor on a dumb controller like the A88mkII?  

[Artomas]

What? Seems like Juno X and Fantom Oh just came out, maybe a year ago? I must be getting older faster than ever. Oh boy... EDIT: oh, you mean the big Fantom. Still... Juno X?

[Jim Alfredson]

The Juno X sounds great. If I didn't already have too many real analog polys, I would consider it. A lot of bang for the buck.

[ElmerJFudd]

The Juno-X has only been around since April of 2022.  I'm guessing if they won't be building anymore that they haven't had the expected sales.  Or there is some major shift happening.   But this is rumor.  Waiting for an official announcement.  

[ABECK]

Is the ENV still shared by the filter and amp, or did they implement a way to have multiple envelopes?  Either way, surprised to see it on the chopping block.  Maybe a $1500 price point would have generated more sales.  

[Franz Schiller]

16 minutes ago, ABECK said:

Maybe a $1500 price point would have generated more sales.  

 

Agreed, I'd be interested if it was a bit cheaper. Same with Jupiter-X. Seems a bit expensive compared to say, a Novation Summit or Kurzweil PC4-7.

[AnotherScott]

1 hour ago, ElmerJFudd said:

Strangely, two PHA-4 offerings, A88mkII and RD88, are the same price.  Does the RD88's DSP needed to run the sound engine internally cost nothing compared to the processor on a dumb controller like the A88mkII?  

I don't know what all the differences are, but also, for whatever reason, the A88 weighs something like 9 lbs more.

[M_G]

 

Other stores here in Germany still have them in stock.

Just today I talked with my dealer (NOT Thomann) regarding some gear. I got my Fantom 8 from there last May.

No word about the Rolands are discontiunued.

 

I would not be the first "fight" between Thomann and a Vendor/Distributor!

 

 

[ElmerJFudd]

Strange for all the models listed to not be available but still selling Fantom-0’s and Jupiter-Xm.  🤷‍♂️ 

[Bill H.]

2 hours ago, ABECK said:

Is the ENV still shared by the filter and amp, or did they implement a way to have multiple envelopes?  Either way, surprised to see it on the chopping block.  Maybe a $1500 price point would have generated more sales.  

 

The Juno-X follows the same signal flow as the Juno-106, with an added pitch envelope for creating hoovers, lasers and other sci-fi sounds. Unfortunately, you can’t alter the amp envelope and filter envelope independently, which means the filter and amp share a single ADSR envelope. - Musictech review

 

The primary draw of Roland's original Junos was their utter simplicity. Their most memorable trait was completely destroyed by the Juno X - a complex mumbo jumbo of Zencore models onboard, in the cloud, parts, scenes, a gazillion options... all addressed from a way too small screen.

 

It was a product seemingly designed to fail. Roland would have been much better off if they'd kept it an updated Juno with a few things we all wanted back then - like a second oscillator and envelope generator - coupled with an appropriate reduction in price. 

[Ibarch]

5 hours ago, ElmerJFudd said:

Strangely, two PHA-4 offerings, A88mkII and RD88, are the same price.  Does the RD88's DSP needed to run the sound engine internally cost nothing compared to the processor on a dumb controller like the A88mkII?  

 

There are 3 variations of the PHA-4 action if I remember correctly. The A88 has a higher spec than the RD-88 which is the one reason for the weight difference. 

 

Additionally, I would speculate that there is very little competition in the market for a top quality 88 note controller with proper weighted keyboard. Hence Roland can charge a premium price for the A88

 

Whereas the market for 88 note lightweight piano / stage piano with weighted keyboard is much more competitive so commercial pressures mean the RD-88 is sold at a much lower price point. 

 

Whatever the reasons, I think the A88 way over priced and the RD-88 fantastic value. 

[Ibarch]

5 hours ago, ElmerJFudd said:

I’m hoping for a quality controller at a fair price that is designed perfectly to run and interface the Roland Cloud on your own laptop where the user can choose to subscribe to a tier or buy licenses for what they want/need and skip what they don’t.  

 

I am struggling to visualise what such an interface would look like. 

 

The cloud contains emulations of multiple different synths / romplers, and drum machines. Some rack modules. And then there is the  Zenology Pro Synth and its expansion models of synths too. 

 

Are you thinking that a controller would morph into the selected synth interface? Would this be all touch screen or would it need knobs, sliders and pads with dynamic labels and automatic layout maps? How about some kind of on board browser / librarian function to navigate, tag and organise the various sound libraries? 

 

Am I on the right lines? 

[ElmerJFudd]

35 minutes ago, Ibarch said:

 

I am struggling to visualise what such an interface would look like. 

 

The cloud contains emulations of multiple different synths / romplers, and drum machines. Some rack modules. And then there is the  Zenology Pro Synth and its expansion models of synths too. 

 

Are you thinking that a controller would morph into the selected synth interface? Would this be all touch screen or would it need knobs, sliders and pads with dynamic labels and automatic layout maps? How about some kind of on board browser / librarian function to navigate, tag and organise the various sound libraries? 

 

Am I on the right lines? 

Theoretically like Native Instrument’s controllers but for Roland Cloud.  Yes, everything already mapped and a touch screen so it’s the same software GUI you see when using it on desktop.   I don’t know what UI they would dream up.   But they’d have to make intuitive. 

[Dave Bryce]

I quite like my JP-X. Not sure what they’d wanna do to replace it…except maybe take the crap onboard sound system out. 🤔😆

 

dB

[niacin]

i just bought an RD88, prices are down from 12 months ago, there’s a couple of stores here in Australia selling them stupid cheap, sales guy i spoke to said stores ordered stuff during Covid that then got backlogged due to supply chain issues and now the supply chain is working again suddenly everyone has stuff in stock and we have an economic downturn. Bringing new products to market of course takes rather longer term planning, but maybe Roland is cutting some losses.

[CyberGene]

I once ordered a Jupiter XM that was backordered and while I waited for availability I started reading the manual. The things looked so complicated while at the same time there’s just a tiny screen to control that complexity, that I canceled my order. It’s just too expensive for what it is IMO. I guess the bigger brother Jupiter X is better with more hands-on control but it’s still the same mess of Zen-Core that you control on a small screen. I also read that the aftertouch on the Jupiter-X is hard to control. 

[zephonic]

18 hours ago, ElmerJFudd said:

Strange for all the models listed to not be available but still selling Fantom-0’s and Jupiter-Xm.  🤷‍♂️ 

 

As a rule of thumb, I take SW site as a reliable indicator of what’s EOL’d. All models mentioned are still up for sale there.

 

[Konnector]

Seems a little odd that they'd be punting those products so soon. Roland has a ton of overlap with their products and sound sets though. They're not alone on that, but it's time for them to present something new and exciting. Maybe they think so as well. (One can only hope!) I thought they were on to something with the SE-02. I might have purchased one if it wasn't so tiny. 19" rack format would've provided that extra space that everyone wanted. 

[RABid]

You know, Sweetwater went through a long spell where anything out of stock would not show up on a search. It did not mean items were discontinued, only out of stock.

[RABid]

10 hours ago, CyberGene said:

I once ordered a Jupiter XM that was backordered and while I waited for availability I started reading the manual. The things looked so complicated while at the same time there’s just a tiny screen to control that complexity, that I canceled my order.

I bought the Jupiter Xm with plans to sell it whenever I got a Jupiter X. It does have a steep learning curve, but wow, great sound and LOADS of polyphony. Got the Jupiter X but decided to also keep the Xm. It works great in conjunction with an Elektron box or MPC. Just the right size for a DAWless setup. The Xm is very popular in DAWless circles.

[CyberGene]

16 minutes ago, RABid said:

Just the right size for a DAWless setup. The Xm is very popular in DAWless circles.

That was my intent too. On the other hand, after some experimentation, I’ve finally settled on a hybrid between DAW-ful and DAW-less setup for the project I have with two other guys: I use an iPad Mini 6 with Logic Pro and arrangements that I’ve sequenced in advance but I also control virtual instruments within Logic through my Numa X Piano 73 that is also a USB audio interface, so basically it’s a setup that’s very similar to the Jupiter X or Xm. Of course, I lack direct synth controls which is why when I’m in the mood I also bring my Sequential Take 5 but honestly I think I’m gonna sell it. One needs direct controls when programming patches. For live playing I use an expression pedal and the mod-joysticks.

[zxcvbnm098]

Don't forget we have the first full NAMM show since 2020 coming up in only about 3 1/2 months. I don't know anything about the Roland's, but it wouldn't surprise me if some products start to sunset in preparation for new/updated things that have been on the back burner due to Covid....

[ElmerJFudd]

2 hours ago, CyberGene said:

That was my intent too. On the other hand, after some experimentation, I’ve finally settled on a hybrid between DAW-ful and DAW-less setup for the project I have with two other guys: I use an iPad Mini 6 with Logic Pro and arrangements that I’ve sequenced in advance but I also control virtual instruments within Logic through my Numa X Piano 73 that is also a USB audio interface, so basically it’s a setup that’s very similar to the Jupiter X or Xm. Of course, I lack direct synth controls which is why when I’m in the mood I also bring my Sequential Take 5 but honestly I think I’m gonna sell it. One needs direct controls when programming patches. For live playing I use an expression pedal and the mod-joysticks.

Price wise, the Xm is probably the most cost effective way to have access to most of Roland's sound engines in one piece of hardware.   The trade off is the mini keys and the lack of a decent sized screen.  But it's fairly knobby and only needs batteries to use anywhere.  You get a more potent setup with Roland Cloud, a laptop and a keyboard controller.  Depending how you do your shopping, you can possibly get under the cost of the Xm or go way over it.   

[sam6599643]

On 8/25/2023 at 6:49 PM, ElmerJFudd said:

Some of the Fantoms to be discontinued as well…
 

Rumor at the moment, looking for confirmation… 

———-

 

Fantom 6,7,8

Jupiter X

Juno X 

System 8 

 

end of the line based on Thomann no longer carrying. 

 

Search Results - Page 1 - "Roland Jupiter X" – Thomann United States (thomannmusic.com)

 

Search Results - Page 1 - "Roland Juno X" – Thomann United States (thomannmusic.com)

Roland is clearing the decks to make space for new line to compete with the new Montage replacement from Yamaha. 

[Mighty Motif Max]

I read a few month ago on one of the Fantom Facebook groups that there was supposed to be another OS update coming for the regular Fantom 6/7/8 this Fall...was supposed to be from an official source. Perhaps Roland will do what they did with the TD-17 drums - have a new Fantom but also an update that makes the current Fantom equivalent (the TD-17 had a V2.0 update like this).

[Chummy]

On 8/25/2023 at 7:49 PM, ElmerJFudd said:

Some of the Fantoms to be discontinued as well…
 

Rumor at the moment, looking for confirmation… 

———-

 

Fantom 6,7,8

Jupiter X

Juno X 

System 8 

 

end of the line based on Thomann no longer carrying. 

 

Search Results - Page 1 - "Roland Jupiter X" – Thomann United States (thomannmusic.com)

 

Search Results - Page 1 - "Roland Juno X" – Thomann United States (thomannmusic.com)

Just checked at Thomann, not a single Roland synth appears in the search, Maybe a boutique and a drum machine - but not a single Hardware keyboard synth, Fantoms, Jupiters, Juno-x AND EVEN Juno DS are not available. Weird that all of them are out ! The VR-730 is there, but it's not a "Synth" or a "workstation"

[ElmerJFudd]

5 hours ago, Chummy said:

Just checked at Thomann, not a single Roland synth appears in the search, Maybe a boutique and a drum machine - but not a single Hardware keyboard synth, Fantoms, Jupiters, Juno-x AND EVEN Juno DS are not available. Weird that all of them are out ! The VR-730 is there, but it's not a "Synth" or a "workstation"

This morning EST it says that Fantom 06 is back ordered for 3-4 weeks.  And Fantom 08 is sold out.  System 8 is sold out.  Yeah, I don’t know what is going on with Thomann and Roland.  We do know Roland offered rebates on all these instruments this summer in the US. 

[RABid]

It is about time for a new Fantom, but the Juno X is a strong seller. See no reason they would even think about ending it.

[sam6599643]

17 hours ago, RABid said:

It is about time for a new Fantom, but the Juno X is a strong seller. See no reason they would even think about ending it.

 

Actually the Juno-X (which seemed to come to market very late on curve in the neo-synthwave pop culture trend) did not look like that strong a seller last I checked in the Thomann product sales rankings earlier this year. Nor did the Jupiter X. Nor the Fantom plattform.

 

I suspect that all those product have not met expectations, as they are supposed to be cash cows in the Roland linduk, basically rehashing old hits at high prices. It is their mini-synth boxes that are the ones selling well, but at a lower price point than these full size synths.

 

Meanwhile, Yamaha is killing it with the recent CK at the mid-lower end, plus the PSR. And I’d think a new Montage would put a hurt on Fantom sales.