Dennis DeYoung used an ARP String Ensemble when he was in Styx

[Ivan May]

The often feuding keybaord player for Styx from their inception in 1967 to 1984, and again from 1990 to 1999, Dennis DeYoung used a dizzying array of synthesizers during his Styx tenure. A self taught keybaord player, he began playing piano and accordion before utilising synthesizers with Styx II in 1972. Originally he was using a Mellotron, as well as a Mini Moog and an ARP 2600, which featured prominently on The Serpent Is Rising and Man Of Miracles.

 

However, by 1974, he started using an ARP String Ensemble, which had just been introduced by that point by ARP. The first album to use it was that year's Man Of Miracles, and it was also used on Suite Madame Blue and Light Up from Equinox.

 

 

 

 

By 1977, he started using an Oberheim four voice synthesiser, which featured prominently on The Grand Illusion and Pieces Of Eight, but he still used the ARP String Ensemble, where it was featured on Come Sail Away. Not sure what phaser he is using on the synths, but it sounds to me like an MXR Phase 90.

 

 

 

I've read that Dennis still used that ARP when Styx reformed in the nineties, but it had to be modified since it was a vintage synth. While Dennis was not a very nice musician to work with, he proved to be a very good singer and songwriter, not to mention he was also a good keyboard player.

 

I hope that this post makes a lot of Dennis DeYoung fans happy.

[mate stubb]

Dennis was a great player. OTOH, his obsession with musical theatre led to nervous breakdowns in the band and being booed off the stage by drunken rock fans.

[Stokely]

You can definitely hear a ton of string synths being used on most of their albums.  I owned every one from Styx I up through Kilroy (which I frankly hated but ymmv.)  James Young would often play such a synth live from what I remember from live vids (on Come Sail Away and other tunes...he also played the Arp 2600 intro riff of Foolin' Yourself at least some of the time.)

They definitely took a turn after Pieces of Eight.  Most bands do change through the years, nature of the beast.

I remember an interview with Dennis about Lady (from Styx II), saying something along the lines that he had never really played much piano before that recording...organ and accordion were his thing!   What hit me about those early albums is that Dennis didn't do most of the lead singing, on I especially.  James Young did almost all the lead.   That had definitely changed by Equinox if not before (I don't remember much about albums 3 and 4 at this point.)

[SamuelBLupowitz]

My younger brother was a huge Styx fan in his teens, so I wound up listening to them a lot sort of by proxy. Some great, great songs, terrific vocals, and killer arrangements, especially once Tommy Shaw came on board after the first four records. Years ago, I read bassist Chuck Panozzo's memoir, and he was diplomatic but firm about the falling out between Dennis DeYoung and the rest of the band in the 90s. While Chuck didn't point any specific fingers, he made clear that there was an atmosphere of homophobia within the band that kept him closeted for many years (I've always wondered if the quiet drummer in Almost Famous was a reference to this). I'm sure that was commonplace in many rock bands of the period, but it's an interesting facet of a band that seemed to straddle a line between "all-American arena band" in the vein of Boston or REO Speedwagon, and "over-the-top theatrical rock act" a la Elton or Queen or even ELP. It seems like Dennis, increasingly to the rest of the band's chagrin, was the driving force between the theatrical side.

 

All that's to say, very cool to learn more about the gear that Dennis used to craft all those layered keyboard arrangements! That Fooling Yourself lead line is probably one of my earliest inklings that synthesizers could be more than just a boring, mushy pad underpinning my favorite 60s and 70s artists as they dragged themselves through the 80s.

[JohnH]

Dennis was doing a lot of solo gigs before the pandemic and you can add him to the list of artists that seem to be retired because of it. He has not done shows at all after it. Boston seems to be another band also done.

[Mills Dude]

1 hour ago, Stokely said:

I remember an interview with Dennis about Lady (from Styx II), saying something along the lines that he had never really played much piano before that recording...organ and accordion were his thing!   What hit me about those early albums is that Dennis didn't do most of the lead singing, on I especially.  James Young did almost all the lead.   That had definitely changed by Equinox if not before (I don't remember much about albums 3 and 4 at this point.)

I had this book in the 80's, Rock Keyboards I think was the title.  I believe it was just reprints of interviews from KB magazine.  That iconic picture of KE was on the cover with him playing 2 boards while facing the camera with that manticore vest.  In that book was a chapter on Dennis and if I remember correctly, he said the original Lady recording was the first time he ever played an acoustic piano.  I could certainly be dis-remembering that quote but I remember finding that hard to believe.  Lady and intro to 'Come Sail' are iconic rock piano parts along with 'Best of Times'

 

Had to cover 'Come Sail' about 10 years ago in a band as a single keyboardist. Used a MOX6 as it had a pretty good Arp String Ensemble patch and a phaser good enough to get close.  Doing that middle section right took a lot of effort.  I set up the ostinato synth part as a pattern in the MOX and used the Arp patch.  Used a Triton for the synth lead and those other echo-y synth runs -- Great tune.

 

Of course I can't forget that awesome swirly Rhodes in 'Babe'.  Dennis is definitely up there in the pantheon of great rock keyboardists.

[JohnH]

Band I am in has been doing Fooling Yourself and Grand Illusion for two years, they were challenging to get down. I still need to learn the FY solos note for note as I tend to improvise them. That's a goal to go make some clips of just the solos then I will get them closer. That's how I got some Doors solos closer to the records when requested and the really hard Queen stuff like Bohemian I was having trouble with some sections, I got better thanks to this.  Make clips and just go over them over and over again.

[ProfD]

Musicians like Dennis DeYoung got a lot of mileage out of those early synths and electromechanical KBs. 

 

They were creative in coming up with signature parts musically and making great records with that gear too. 😎

[The Real MC]

DeYoung got a lot of mileage from the limited tools he had.  BTW "Sweet Madame Blue" was an ARP ProSoloist not 2600, there's a YT concert video from those days.  I had a lot of fun covering Styx songs.  One of the challenges is their vocal harmonies, which are not simple triads.

Their first four albums on Wooden Nickel records weren't much to write home about other than "Lady".  Styx was sounding like ELP and struggling to find a direction.  They started finding their sound on Equinox but it really solidified on Crystal Ball, Shaw's first album with Styx.

 

Some of the fault of the fallout between DeYoung and the band falls on the record label.  With the success of DeYoung's ballads bringing in the money, the label made DeYoung the primary songwriter.  Before that, Styx songwriting was teamwork and that's the creative era I liked best.  Once DeYoung was crowned by the label, it wasn't a team anymore and the members soured on the emphasis of ballads and theatre concept albums.  I haven't heard anything I liked since Paradise Theater, and Kilroy was a bitter pill to swallow.

I don't think the current band plays any DeYoung ballads.

[Lou Gehrig Charles]

10 minutes ago, The Real MC said:

Once DeYoung was crowned by the label, it wasn't a team anymore and the members soured on the emphasis of ballads and theatre concept albums.  I haven't heard anything I liked since Paradise Theater, and Kilroy was a bitter pill to swallow.
 

As Tommy Shaw said on VH1's Behind the Music:  "I just couldn't write any more songs about robots". 

 

On an unrelated note, I've got "Crystal Ball" on our list of sings I want the band to learn eventually.  I am sure those harmonies will be a challenge!  But that song has always been one of my favorites.

[Baldwin Funster]

Not a keyboard song but it was always cool to hear midnight ride on late night FM radio. Any remember Jim Ladd?

And of course suite madam blue.

Time after time

I sit and wait for your call...

 

I think parts of equinox were the bands great moments.

[Stokely]

My current band has done SMB live, though we really need to sit down and practice it   We do Blue Collar Man, Renegade and Too Much Time on my Hands, hope I'm not forgetting any.

For me as a young musician (and a bit before that) in the early 80s I was more into music from the 60s (Doors, Who) and then started getting into ELO.   Still love ELO for that matter.  Anyway I was at a picnic with someone blasting some music and I heard this awesome tune with amazing synth sounds...I asked the boombox owner, what is that and he told me it was Grand Illusion.  That freaking oberheim lead sound was my favorite.   Not sure what synth or effects he was using on their live album Caught in the Act but it sounded better than the album (songs like Crystal Ball especially, where I'm guessing that was before the oberheim).   Also Light Up really caught my ear when I heard that on the radio.

[UnderGroundGr]

I like Killroy, nice album...

[Stokely]

I think it's down to what you heard and loved first.

My buddy loves the 80s Rush stuff after Power Windows (I don't even remember the names of those albums, as I didn't care for them).  I like the early "screechy Geddy" albums the most, ironically before they did much with keyboards, up through about Grace Under Pressure.  He heard and got attached to the later 80s stuff first and for him the early stuff is way too out there for him LOL!   it's all good.  

re: the homophobia (and applies to political views)...I try not to learn too much about artists and authors whose work I really like.  I tend to stay away from documentaries and the like for that reason.  I should probably be better at keeping the two separate but I let one affect the other, so my solution is that of the fabled ostrich  
 

[timwat]

1 hour ago, Stokely said:

...I try not to learn too much about artists and authors whose work I really like.  I tend to stay away from documentaries and the like for that reason.  I should probably be better at keeping the two separate but I let one affect the other, so my solution is that of the fabled ostrich  
 

 

That's a really interesting comment to me, bro. Folks in my circle seem to have a wide variety of stances on that, from "I refuse to play any of <insert artist>'s songs because of this thing he did" to "how dare they try to destroy his musical legacy because of this unrelated incident..."

 

And of course there has never been a shortage of eyebrow raising stuff, from Jerry Lee Lewis and Elvis to R. Kelly and the MJ accusations.

 

I think I've been of the mind that the artistic output stands distinct from the actual person, which allows me to watch the documentary and find the insights interesting, but maybe not sour me on the output. I find it difficult personally to attach the output to the imperfect human, as the best of men are men at best. Or maybe I'm just fooling myself (reference intended).

 

Back on topic, in the before times I traded a Moog Prodigy for an ARP String Ensemble in a smoky bar, underage and was ushered him by a huge Samoan bouncer with a chain wrapped around his fist like brass knuckles. Eventually a carpenter friend cut it down into a more streamlined custom built case that lowered it's profile and reduced its weight to...exactly as much as it weighed before LOL. Nothing like the days of the ARP on top of the Rhodes to cover I Can't Tell You Why.

 

[hookie]

14 hours ago, JohnH said:

Dennis was doing a lot of solo gigs before the pandemic and you can add him to the list of artists that seem to be retired because of it. He has not done shows at all after it. Boston seems to be another band also done.

Dennis also collaborated and performed with Jim Peterik one several songs before the pandemic. I think the most popular release was “Proof of Heaven.” I believe there’s a video out there somewhere. I’m sure it was easy for them to get together as they live around the corner from each other in the Chicago burbs. One of my daughters went to school with Peterik’s son, Colin, a great musician in his own right, and after they became friends I was privy to some interesting gossip. 
 

Also, I believe De Young released songs in 2020 and 2021 with his latest band. Not sure if they ever performed them publicly.

 

Dennis must be in his mid-70’s by now, maybe that’s why he hasn’t been touring? 

[SamuelBLupowitz]

16 hours ago, Stokely said:

re: the homophobia (and applies to political views)...I try not to learn too much about artists and authors whose work I really like.  I tend to stay away from documentaries and the like for that reason.  I should probably be better at keeping the two separate but I let one affect the other, so my solution is that of the fabled ostrich  
 

It's tricky! And I don't want to dwell on the social issues/politics on this forum and keep things light and gear-oriented, but I did want to offer my perspective that for me, learning about what makes my favorite (and less favorite) artists tick, the positive and the negative, helps provide insight to me about what makes the art happen. Human beings are full of hope and flaws and inconsistencies, and I find all of that very compelling. John Bonham was apparently a very kind, caring, loving family man as well as, at times, an out-of-control monster. There are countless stories of bad behavior and ego and self-destruction violence from people who also have reputations of being full of integrity and commitment and kindness. The demands of being a touring artist (or public creative figure of any kind) in our society don't necessary bring out the best in people, and I find the underlying humanity that produces the art to be a fascinating element of a complex picture.

 

Of course, sometimes I just want to dance to Billie Jean and not think too hard about any of that other stuff. It's allowed!

[JohnH]

Not playing an artist songs because of something they did reminds of some site a friend sent the other day- "check if a company has done XYZ things" . (I've changed what it was about)- I wrote back and said if I checked every company for wrong doing, I would have to withdraw from society and move to Montana and become Ted Kaczynski living in a remote cabin (but without the bombs) .

[EscapeRocks]

22 hours ago, JohnH said:

Band I am in has been doing Fooling Yourself and Grand Illusion for two years, they were challenging to get down. I still need to learn the FY solos note for note as I tend to improvise them. That's a goal to go make some clips of just the solos then I will get them closer. That's how I got some Doors solos closer to the records when requested and the really hard Queen stuff like Bohemian I was having trouble with some sections, I got better thanks to this.  Make clips and just go over them over and over again.

Hey John,

Elmo Peeler of ManyMIdi Products has an absolutely dead on note for note transcription of Foolin Yourself, including the solo, and outro solo.

I think I paid around $8.00 or so a few years ago

 

[Baldwin Funster]

Edit per forum guidelines.

D DeY is cool.

[Stokely]

Edit: we are getting far afield from Deyoung and synths at this point, and I'm not helping.   

[Motif88]

FYI - Dennis upgraded to an Oberheim 8 Voice...Saw them live several times in the 1977-1979 timeframe.

[Stokely]

I wonder if that 8-voice was in use in Caught in the Act.  

Hmm, didn't realize that album was 1984, could have been a bunch of things by then.   One thing I notice with all that talk about getting solos exact, Dennis himself never seemed to bother.  I doubt he ever played the end of Foolin' Yourself the same.  This Crystal Ball solo is quite different.   There's also a string synth or something much like it featured.
 

 

[The Real MC]

2 hours ago, Stokely said:

I wonder if that 8-voice was in use in Caught in the Act.  

Hmm, didn't realize that album was 1984, could have been a bunch of things by then.   One thing I notice with all that talk about getting solos exact, Dennis himself never seemed to bother.  I doubt he ever played the end of Foolin' Yourself the same.  This Crystal Ball solo is quite different.   There's also a string synth or something much like it featured.

By 1979 Dennis had dropped the 8-voice and added a 2nd 4-voice.  The EVS was too much of a hassle on stage.  I have the concert DVD from 1984 and I spotted not just two FVS but also the OB-X.

[Motif88]

10 minutes ago, The Real MC said:

By 1979 Dennis had dropped the 8-voice and added a 2nd 4-voice.  The EVS was too much of a hassle on stage.  I have the concert DVD from 1984 and I spotted not just two FVS but also the OB-X.

Just means I'm old enough to remember the 8 voice from pre-1979. Oddly, I owned an 8 voice in the late 70's, early 80's. My latch/hold key function when playing live was a #2 pencil...

[Stokely]

Hopefully I haven't told this before...quick story.  I was at a coworkers house years ago and he, knowing I played keys, just offhand said "want to see my roommate's keyboard?"  Er, sure.  Thinking some home unit with speakers you'd get at Target.  He goes under the pool table and there is an absolutely huge tolex (iirc) case with "Oberheim" written on it.  My eyes about bugged out when he opened it.  Sure enough, it was an 8 voice.  According to the roommate, it was one owned by Geddy Lee, though I had no way to verify.  He said it wasn't working but he knew it was quite valuable and was intending to sell it.  Talk about surprised, that was me!

Motif88, maybe it was yours, this was Sanford, FL   Or maybe you were the roommate, I never actually met the guy in person (and don't know what you look like for that matter LOL)

[The Real MC]

5 hours ago, Stokely said:

Sanford, FL  

 

Fifteen miles from me.  I'm in Deltona.

Not that I want an EVS, I already have a FVS and I'm out of room.  I'm surprised something like that is so close to me.

[Stokely]

Not sure it still is, that was close to ten years ago.  It was just a surreal experience!

When my current band was just starting out, we played a couple bars in Deltona...Critters and Dizzy Ds, if my memory serves.  It's probably been a good 7-8 years for either.  We do play over in Debary from time to time, and you may know the Oasis in Sorrento....we've played there way too many times  

[o0Ampy0o]

I have thought they started the theatrics with Paradise Theater and ended themselves with Kilroy, just two album eras. I saw them live during the PT tour. I thought the theater aspect was just a novelty relating the the album theme. If DeYoung was the driving force of that train it was not his strength. There were no seeds of Fine Art in the active visuals. There have been many successful actors and pro sports figures attempting to bridge over to music or the opposite where a musician attempts to do some acting. Some manage but many fail miserably.  World class talent in one area does not necessarily carry over to other areas. The Rolling Stones effortlessly stepped up to Pink Floyd stadium scale theatrics without the light show and video when their objective was to present a show that met the new bar PF had defined with their Division Bell tour. In contrast the Styx Kilroy stage theatrics were closer to a high school theater show.

 

Sweet Madame Blue is their best DeYoung voiced composition IMO. Love the live version. There was a soundtrack (Rock Show?) which had a live recording of Crystal Ball. While the version on the official live album was flawless and smooth I preferred this version because Shaw’s vocals were less perfect and a little strained. In the same vein there is a King Biscuit Flour Hour recording of Boston performing Man I’ll Never Be where Brad Delp is not so polished and they do the song without the piano which I believe is superior to the studio recording. It is a case where a bit of raw is stronger than perfection.

[Stokely]

While I much prefer the older sound from say Pieces of Eight, I do enjoy listening to Paradise Theater.  Different sound but still good songs mostly.  Never liked the album before (Cornerstone) that much, especially Babe and First Time (syrupy ballads, and that was a first for them I think if you don't count Lady.)  Didn't like Kilroy afterward but again if that was what I had heard first maybe all that would be flipped on its head.  Grand Illusion was the first of their albums I really listened to and that kind of set the tone literally for me.

They did a live Grand Illusion/Pieces of Eight concert years ago, with the Deyoung replacement (Gowan?).  That was really interesting because apparently some of those songs had never been played live, like Superstars.   Sounded fantastic.  I thought about seeing them this year actually but there were too many songs on their setlist that I either didn't know, or didn't care for so I passed.