Anyone else not a fan of the crash cymbal

[bill5]

I don't know maybe it's an old age thing, but I was just thinking as I listened to a song how the older I get, the less and less I care for this...it just seems so obtrusive and in your face most of the time....BASSSH! CRASHHH! SMASHHH! For crying out loud...it's like I'm watching the old Batman TV show.   Of course for some things it works better than others (like rock), but mostly, pass. Anyone else? 

 

PS yeah I thought about posting this in the Drum section of the site but figured I'd get skewered even more there lol 

 

[Baldwin Funster]

I know drummers where the crash is the only thing they hit.

[Coker]

I am usually sitting next to the drummer’s ride cymbal.  My ears are ringing long after the music stops.

[mate stubb]

Peter Gabriel is not a fan apparently.

[Docbop]

It's a exclamation point you don't like exclamation points!!!!!   It's part of a good drummers vocabulary.    Like telling a piano player not altered dominants Cowboy chords only.  Boy that going to be a boring gig. 

[bill5]

1 hour ago, mate stubb said:

Peter Gabriel is not a fan apparently.

Phil Collins got the idea from him I believe to do drums (at times) totally cymbal-free. Which is a cool and interesting twist, but not saying to go that far. 

[Paul Vnuk Jr.]

As a recording engineer, I typically encounter two types of drummers. 

 

The drummer who thinks that it is their job to hit every drum...and cymbal as freaking loud as possible and then tells me, "You're the engineer; you deal with it". And then there are drummers who actually consider the sound of each drum, the sound of each strike AND plays to the mics and the song. When those drummers hit cymbals, I tend not to mind.

[mate stubb]

As long as it is not within 10' I'm in.

[Docbop]

30 minutes ago, Paul Vnuk Jr. said:

As a recording engineer, I typically encounter two types of drummers. 

 

The drummer who thinks that it is their job to hit every drum...and cymbal as freaking loud as possible and then tells me, "You're the engineer; you deal with it". And then there are drummers who actually consider the sound of each drum, the sound of each strike AND plays to the mics and the song. When those drummers hit cymbals, I tend not to mind.

From my day recording in Jurassic era it seemed more like two types of players in the studio those that knew the studio was a different environment and had the gear, technique, tuning in case of drummers for recording. The others people would drag in same gear they gig with thinking it will sound great in a studio, then wonder where all the rattles, hiss, and ground hum came from.   Seem most pro musicians had one set of gear for live and a second for recording.     Drummers the worst part is most could tune their own drums worth a dam.   When I'd be setting up for a session and I'd see Ronnie Tutts drums were delivered for the session I knew it was going to be a great day.   Ronnie was not only a great drummer you could put a drum mics just about anywhere and get a great sound.  His drums always sounded good on tape. (opp I dated myself saying tape). 

[scoopicman]

I tend to like slow rising swooshes more than a fast crash.  Synth beats, minus crashes, are where I lean.

[Tom Williams]

I offered to quit my first band (1970s) if they didn't move either me or the crash cymbal.  They caved, and here I am, now 64 years old, and I seem to have only lost the top octave of my hearing, 12KHz and up.

 

Perhaps the crash is like a cuss word -- its dramatic effect diminishes the more you use it. 

 

Interestingly, crashes have a much slower decay than any drums, on the order of 1,000ms or longer.  Shorter envelopes qualify as either "splash" or even "trash."

 

I also run sound, and really really hate it when drummers play so loud I have to cut them completely from the PA and mix the band around them.

[o0Ampy0o]

The drummer's bible:

crash = orgasm

 

[niacin]

 

 

[niacin]

8 hours ago, Coker said:

I am usually sitting next to the drummer’s ride cymbal.  My ears are ringing long after the music stops.

try sitting next to a timbales player.  We showed up to the last gig and the bass player asked the sound guy about miking up the timbales.  Sound guy just laughed.

[Adam Burgess]

Rather sit next to a crash cymbal than a china!

[Justin Havu]

29 minutes ago, Adam Burgess said:

Rather sit next to a crash cymbal than a china!

 

More specifically, a Wuhan.

 

I have a Sabian AAX 18" china that I absolutely love.  It's very warm, not as abrasive as some others, and quite versatile.

[StanC]

11 hours ago, Coker said:

I am usually sitting next to the drummer’s ride cymbal.  My ears are ringing long after the music stops.

Yeah I get it.  Our drummer uses a riser which puts his crash cymbal directly at my ear level.  Especially unfavorable in small venues where our 9 pc band is crowded on top of each other!  

[SamuelBLupowitz]

The guitar player in my funk-rock band once said to me while privately talking about our drummer’s excellent chops, “sometimes I wish I could take that f***ing crash cymbal away from him.” 😆

[RABid]

This thread reminds me of that bit in "The Commitments" where the player got chewed out for playing a jazz note.

 

Anyway, I will agree that too many drummers don't even know the correct way to hit a cymbal. They think that crash cymbals are to be hit on the edge with the meat of the stick, as hard as possible. That is the quickest way to damage a cymbal, and you only get one sound out of it. 

[Stokely]

One particular "crash incident" single-handedly made me start using in-ears.  We were in a small bar, as a six-piece, and it was horribly loud.  Our old drummer played hard all the time.  We were playing freaking "Rockin in the Free World" of all things (what a song to lose your hearing on) and near the end the drummer hit four crashes in a row so hard that I heard/felt my eardrums distort.  Everything "wobbled" in that brief second.  Back in those days, my ears would ring after every show; loud drummer, huge PA, amps on stage, everyone with loud wedges just to try to hear anything.   In other words, insanity--considering the places we were playing were usually small indoor bars.

It was either quit, or get something to block the sound, and I haven't had good luck with earplugs.   Our current drummer is much less of a caveman, yet the cymbals are still enough to keep on IEMs.  If he ever got an e-kit I'd probably go back to low volume wedge(s).

[ProfD]

As evidenced in the Dave Weckl clip above, it's all about musicianship which includes dynamics. 

 

Regardless of the instrument being played, a good musician knows how to control it dynamically.😎

[JohnH]

Thank god for molded musician earplugs and if my ear is near a drummer that earplug stays fully in for most of the gig.

[Anderton]

I'm a fan when used VERY sparingly. The less it's used, the more effective it is.

 

When mixing, crash cymbals are an excellent reason to understand how dynamic EQ works

[Moonglow]

Sorry, carry on….

[bill5]

4 hours ago, ProfD said:

As evidenced in the Dave Weckl clip above, it's all about musicianship which includes dynamics. 

For me it's about more than that...I'm not talking about using crash cymbals "wrong" or being heavy-handed with them, I mostly don't like them at all any more. Any music I record, rest assured they will not be part of it. It didn't used to be that way.

[ProfD]

40 minutes ago, bill5 said:

For me it's about more than that...I'm not talking about using crash cymbals "wrong" or being heavy-handed with them, I mostly don't like them at all any more. Any music I record, rest assured they will not be part of it. It didn't used to be that way.

Gotcha.  The crash cymbal, ride and China for that matter aren't used at all on most sequenced drum tracks nowadays.  It's all about hi-hats.😁😎

[bill5]

I think I may go for the Phil Collins "brassless" style.  We'll see

[Outkaster]

I hate the god dam ride cymbal. I say that because most drummers switch to it and it changes the feel.  In groove type music it ruins thing once they move from the hi hat.  It was a big problem with the drummer from a band I was in.

[Bill H.]

Personally I prefer the whoosh of filtered white noise to a crash, but I probably listen to too much house. 

[Justin Havu]

2 hours ago, Outkaster said:

I hate the god dam ride cymbal. I say that because most drummers switch to it and it changes the feel.  In groove type music it ruins thing once they move from the hi hat.  It was a big problem with the drummer from a band I was in.

 

I hate ride cymbals too, but I hate the bell more than anything.  I've yet to come across a ride cymbal I like.  They're all too pingy, abrasive, and annoying.  If I need a ride, I'll just use an 18" crash.