CEB Posted April 26, 2023 Share Posted April 26, 2023 Super Locrian is awesome. It’s a life Alterered experience. Have a Great Day. Quote "It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne "A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!! So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PianoMan51 Posted April 26, 2023 Share Posted April 26, 2023 Just us old folks here. No place for a melodic minor. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricBarker Posted April 26, 2023 Share Posted April 26, 2023 I'm a fan of Platonic Minor myself 1 Quote Puck Funk! Equipment: Laptop running lots of nerdy software, some keyboards, noise makersâ¦yada yada yadaâ¦maybe a cat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coker Posted April 26, 2023 Share Posted April 26, 2023 I prefer the catatonic mode. 1 5 Quote CA93, MODX8, YC88, K8.2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MathOfInsects Posted April 27, 2023 Share Posted April 27, 2023 Always use Incognito Mode. Quote Now out! "Mind the Gap," a 24-song album of new material. www.joshweinstein.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoken6 Posted April 27, 2023 Share Posted April 27, 2023 P corinthian over K blunt demented. Cheers, Mike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatoboy Posted April 27, 2023 Share Posted April 27, 2023 Modes are wonderful I have really got into them the past few years but straight Western Harmony is much more powerful in terms of modulation and harmony as my old piano teacher used to say to sort of temper my excitement about them .. they are wonderful things but I believe he was correct... just some perspective .. not to bummer the thread... I do love using them myself now that I understand their usage better . . . less power doesn't necessarily mean less beauty.... 2 Quote CP-50, YC 73, FP-80, PX5-S, NE-5d61, Kurzweil SP6, XK-3, CX-3, Hammond XK-3, Yamaha YUX Upright, '66 B3/Leslie 145/122 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamPro Posted April 27, 2023 Share Posted April 27, 2023 Removing the scales from my eyes....Modes will cure what scales you. When I was discussing scales with my guitarist friend, he threatened to smash his guitar on my head. I asked him: "Is that a fret?" We were in a cover band called "Duvet". He was later arrested for fingering a minor. I write my scales out on paper; but they are still tearable. That music you heard coming from my office - Yeah, the printer jammed. The famous composer warned others to not touch his sheet music: it was too hot to Handel. And then Franz asked: "are you Schubert that?" I confess: as a piano student, I was an ardent trill-seeker. Theses jokes about modes are but a minor nuisance for a major scale. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coker Posted April 27, 2023 Share Posted April 27, 2023 But, all seriousness aside, the OP has gotten excited about the super locrian mode, and I’m in his camp. I didn’t know what it was called, but using that C#m maj7 (as I think of it) over a C7 for jazz melodies is a beautiful thing, and fingering fits my hand very well for some reason. 1 Quote CA93, MODX8, YC88, K8.2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aronnelson Posted April 27, 2023 Share Posted April 27, 2023 21 hours ago, CEB said: Super Locrian is awesome. It’s a life Alterered experience. Have a Great Day. That was the first thing George Cables taught me! And Yes!!!! Quote Korg Kronos, Roland RD-88, Korg Kross, JP8000, MS2000, Sequential Pro One, Micromoog, Yamaha VL1, author of unrealBook for iPad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Docbop Posted April 27, 2023 Share Posted April 27, 2023 Makes you want to paint your Shell with all the colours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polychrest Posted April 27, 2023 Share Posted April 27, 2023 The lawn mode can be a good workout using a light-action manual. 1 Quote "I like rock and roll, man, I don't like much else." John Lennon 1970 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allan_evett Posted April 27, 2023 Share Posted April 27, 2023 Anyone else hear of the 'Lixian' scale? A college instructor used that term to describe a C Mixolydian scale with F raised to F#, which would also be the chord scale for C7b5. A new favorite that I discovered earlier this year is the 'Mixolydian b6'. That came from a liturgical piece accompaniment I'd been reworking. The resolution of the tritone is haunting. 1 Quote 'Someday, we'll look back on these days and laugh; likely a maniacal laugh from our padded cells, but a laugh nonetheless' - Mr. Boffo. We need a barfing cat emoticon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Docbop Posted April 27, 2023 Share Posted April 27, 2023 11 minutes ago, allan_evett said: Anyone else hear of the 'Lixian' scale? A college instructor used that term to describe a C Mixolydian scale with F raised to F#, which would also be the chord scale for C7b5. When I first heard of that they called it the Overtone Scale today commonly called Lydian b7. The other scale that remember from then was the 8 Tone Dominant Scale now just called Half-Whole Diminished. Back in 70's a lot of different names for things depending on region of the world you hailed from. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricBarker Posted April 27, 2023 Share Posted April 27, 2023 1 hour ago, allan_evett said: Anyone else hear of the 'Lixian' scale? A college instructor used that term to describe a C Mixolydian scale with F raised to F#, which would also be the chord scale for C7b5. A new favorite that I discovered earlier this year is the 'Mixolydian b6'. That came from a liturgical piece accompaniment I'd been reworking. The resolution of the tritone is haunting. Can we all agree that "Mixolydian" is an awkward and silly name for a mode? Especially since it shares very little tonal similarity to Lydian other than "being the next one up!" Couldn't it be the Spartan Mode, or some other Greek region? 1 Quote Puck Funk! Equipment: Laptop running lots of nerdy software, some keyboards, noise makersâ¦yada yada yadaâ¦maybe a cat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyberGene Posted April 27, 2023 Share Posted April 27, 2023 It’s for the first time I learn that one of the most used (by me) scales is actually called “super locrian” 🤦🏻♂️ I always thought about it as the melodic minor that starts a semitone above the root of the corresponding 7alt chord… 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guzman Posted April 27, 2023 Share Posted April 27, 2023 There is a simple code I use for applying melodic minor over dominant 7th chords. Which melodic minor to use depends on what position the dominant 7th chord is. I’ll use the key of C for reference, since everyone likes the people’s key. Dominant 7 13/b9 (almost always a V chord) - Play melodic minor down a whole step from the dominant chord root. So for the key of C, the chord would be a G7 13/b9 - you would play an F melodic minor. If the dominant 7 is altered in these positions - III7, V7, VI7, VII7 - Play melodic minor up a 1/2 step from the dominant chord root. So for the key of C, this would be: E7 (alt) - F melodic minor G7(alt) - Ab melodic minor A7 (alt) - Bb melodic minor B7 (alt) - C melodic minor If the dominant 7 is a #11 in these positions - II7, V7, (and any non-diatonic 7 chord) - Play melodic minor up a 5th from the dominant chord root. So for the key of C, this would be: Db7#11 - Ab melodic minor D7#11 - A melodic minor Eb7#11 - Bb melodic minor Gb7#11 - Db melodic minor G7#11 - D melodic minor Ab7#11 - Eb melodic minor Bb7#11 - F melodic minor Also, for III7, V7 and VI7 dominants, you can play a diminished scale up a half step from the dominant chord root. So for the key of C, this would be: E7 - F diminished scale G7 - Ab diminished scale A7 - Bb diminished scale This is a quick and easy formula - at least for my brain. 3 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElmerJFudd Posted April 27, 2023 Share Posted April 27, 2023 I prefer the pie-a-la mode, quite honestly. 🍰 🍦 1 Quote Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CEB Posted April 28, 2023 Author Share Posted April 28, 2023 For what it's worth, I listen to this podcast with these two players from St. Louis. I love the way Peter Martin plays. These guys give me some good practice ideas when I am looking for something new to work on or feel like I'm in a rut. Here is one of their discussions from a 2-3 years ago I really enjoyed. 5 Quote "It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne "A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!! So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyberGene Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 @guzman yeah, exactly how I do too. But I’ve internalized them so much I don’t even think them anymore, I just play the proper scale. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Lobo Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 I use the chromatic scale in all my playing. 2 Quote These are only my opinions, not supported by any actual knowledge, experience, or expertise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GovernorSilver Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 Open Studio's videos are pretty solid. They mentioned dominant to minor chord transitions as one application of altered scale. I've seen other instructors covering this as well. But Adam Maness's Jazz Scales for Beginners course introduces a different set of exercises for dominant to minor transitions. The course was released at a more recent time than the altered scale YT video - maybe Adam found something that works more effectively with students. Of course there's no absolute right or wrong. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Docbop Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 2 hours ago, GovernorSilver said: Of course there's no absolute right or wrong. Can I get an Amen from the congregation!!!! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnderGroundGr Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 Phrygian dominant fan here... 1 Quote Kurzweil K2661 + full options,iMac 27",Mac book white,Apogee Element 24 + Duet,Genelec 8030A,Strymon Lex + Flint,Hohner Pianet T,Radial Key-Largo,Kawai K5000W,Moog Minitaur,Yamaha Reface YC + CP, iPad 9th Gen,Arturia Beatstep + V Collection 9,Osmose https://antonisadelfidis.bandcamp.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Quinn Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 Love Super Locrian! First learned it from Herbie recordings with Miles (Seven Steps to Heaven I think). At first it seemed crazy with all the altered notes but once I realized that by thinking of it as it related to the tritone substitute dominant it became so simple: the altered notes became scale tones with just one altered note — the #11. It went from crazy to simple by just changing my perspective. Of course, the ultimate goal is to know it, in which case there’s no thinking. Just the sound of the notes. 2 Quote https://alquinn.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElmerJFudd Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 4 hours ago, El Lobo said: I use the chromatic scale in all my playing. This is a more provocative notion than the length of the statement suggests. Especially for players who think harmonically more so than scalular. There are many ways to theoretically explain why something sounds good. 1 Quote Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyberGene Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 19 minutes ago, Al Quinn said: the altered notes became scale tones with just one altered note — the #11. Yeah. When I’m notating 7alt chords I always have a little crisis of whether I should strictly follow the jazz prescription of denoting b9, #9, #11 and b13 or just use the enharmonic tritone 7#11 chord to spell it out cleanly and much more readable. For instance, I had to recently notate an Ab7alt and there’s a pure A there that’s actually the b9 and thus should be notated as bbB 😀 (double-flat B) But if you just look at it as the D7#11, then it’s just an A. But then it’s not harmonically correct… 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoken6 Posted April 29, 2023 Share Posted April 29, 2023 Harmonic theory gets squirrelly in the "far reaches of the circle of fifths". Cheers, Mike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theo Verelst Posted April 29, 2023 Share Posted April 29, 2023 Melodic means blues ladder up plays the 6th snd 7th different from going down. Like with chords wuth additions, at some point there are scales with different name and meaning with the same notes. Harmonic balance, classical (e.g. "pure" intervals) melodic elements, and inversion of chords and bas usually are more important noticable elements tgan far fetched chords or scale names. Also: how does a scale fit a chord, or a transition. T Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatoboy Posted April 30, 2023 Share Posted April 30, 2023 Study be-bop with my teacher we went briefly through some simple substitution scales at 1st. he said on any Dominant 7 you can play the diminished scale a half step above the root of the dominant you are playing .. the diminished scale is a 9 note scale but actually very close to super Locrian in it's 1st 4 notes.... the tritone notes will be missing though but it is also an effective substitution on I have found over any dominant and very close to a Super Locrian in feel and tension ... 1 1 Quote CP-50, YC 73, FP-80, PX5-S, NE-5d61, Kurzweil SP6, XK-3, CX-3, Hammond XK-3, Yamaha YUX Upright, '66 B3/Leslie 145/122 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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