Pianoteq iOS

[D. Gauss]

consider the competition.  ravenscroft is what, $35? I think Korg module with a piano was about the same. VB3M is $15.  i bought hammond b3x for $50 or so on sale.  so... $49 for pianotec seems about right, not $139 before you add anything.   

  fwiw, also consider the price of pianotec, plus an ipad, plus an 88 key weighted keyboard, plus all the dumb interface/adapter doodads that apple requires you to buy in order to have midi in and sound come out of a headphone jackless ipad, and you're easily over the price of just buying a decent standalone hardware digital piano.

[AnotherScott]

15 minutes ago, D. Gauss said:

consider the competition.  ravenscroft is what, $35? I think Korg module with a piano was about the same. VB3M is $15.  i bought hammond b3x for $50 or so on sale.  so... $49 for pianotec seems about right, not $139 before you add anything. 

 

Which gives you more for your money may depend on your needs and usages. If you want Ravenscroft on you iOS device and your PC/Mac, that would be $235. If you want Pianoteq on your iOS device and your PC/Mac, that's $139. And Ravenscroft gives you one acoustic piano, while Pianoteq at that price gives you two acoustic pianos, or other options, like one acoustic piano and a selection of Rhodes and Wurlis.

 

20 minutes ago, D. Gauss said:

fwiw, also consider the price of pianotec, plus an ipad, plus an 88 key weighted keyboard, plus all the dumb interface/adapter doodads that apple requires you to buy in order to have midi in and sound come out of a headphone jackless ipad, and you're easily over the price of just buying a decent standalone hardware digital piano.

 

Yeah, the "high value" of software instruments is predicated on your already having most of the other stuff you'd need. And the extra $100 of Pianoteq over other options is not enough to really alter that equation one way or the other.

[Radagast]

Does anyone know the polyphony of Pianoteq iOS?   And does it increase when using a more powerful iPad?

[Jose EB5AGV]

1 hour ago, Radagast said:

Does anyone know the polyphony of Pianoteq iOS?   And does it increase when using a more powerful iPad?

 

It was 48 by default on my Air 2, but can be increased and even been set in "automatic" with a couple of options there, optimistic or pessimistic. I tried to increase and it worked fine at 64. More made my old iPad to choke. Not unexpected!

 

Jose 

[ImproKeys]

Installed it and activated my existing license. 
I am SO happy they released this. It plays wonderfully, sounds great and replaces my need for Neo Soul and Module Pianos. Not to mention finally there’s a great Clav for IOS. 
and it’s only about 58mb file size. 

[Dockeys]

2 hours ago, Radagast said:

Does anyone know the polyphony of Pianoteq iOS?   And does it increase when using a more powerful iPad?

256 is max polyphony. I tested it with my iPad Pro 12.9 M1. Was seamless. I only had it at 48 polyphony though which was the default. As a result the cpu usage was only around 10%. Ill try and test it later on 128/256. Am sure it'll be more resource hungry at those settings. 

[Dockeys]

7 hours ago, D. Gauss said:

 

Is this true?  you can't just pay $49 and have a single piano?  $139??? that's highway robbery in the app world.

Yeah if I didn't already have the desktop I probably wouldn't buy it was it doesn't represent good value. I think they should at the very least throw in one free piano. Otherwise youre buying an empty vessel. Sure, one with great potential, but still it does nothing without the sounds.

 

The most Ive paid for apps was B3X which ended up costing me €100. I know they occasionally have in on sale but I could never grab it any lower. Its great and I use it a lot but I got the desktop version of that for about €40 more than the app. I still think 100 is way too much for an app. 

 

But if you do have the desktop version it means its a no brainer. The sound and features of the desktop are all there for me. 

[Dr Mike Metlay]

4 hours ago, D. Gauss said:

consider the competition.  ravenscroft is what, $35? I think Korg module with a piano was about the same. VB3M is $15.  i bought hammond b3x for $50 or so on sale.  so... $49 for pianotec seems about right, not $139 before you add anything.   

  fwiw, also consider the price of pianotec, plus an ipad, plus an 88 key weighted keyboard, plus all the dumb interface/adapter doodads that apple requires you to buy in order to have midi in and sound come out of a headphone jackless ipad, and you're easily over the price of just buying a decent standalone hardware digital piano.

Left brain says: Yes, consider the competition and make a decision based on what works for you. If it is important to you to not pay too much for an app, then you shouldn't pay too much for an app, and you should realize that your "too much" is not the same as other people's "too much." You do you.

 

Right brain says: Screw it, there IS no competition. Ravenscroft makes me cry and Module makes me want to tear my hair out, and neither of them sounds nearly as good as Pianoteq. It'd be a bargain, even if I had to buy a copy of Stage all over again.

 

YMMV.

 

[Stefan011]

30 minutes ago, Dockeys said:

Yeah if I didn't already have the desktop I probably wouldn't buy it was it doesn't represent good value. I think they should at the very least throw in one free piano. Otherwise youre buying an empty vessel. Sure, one with great potential, but still it does nothing without the sounds.

 

The most Ive paid for apps was B3X which ended up costing me €100. I know they occasionally have in on sale but I could never grab it any lower. Its great and I use it a lot but I got the desktop version of that for about €40 more than the app. I still think 100 is way too much for an app. 

 

But if you do have the desktop version it means its a no brainer. The sound and features of the desktop are all there for me. 

No, it is not "buying an empty vessel." You get two instrument packs with Stage. For cross-platform the price is ok. But I think they shoud allow ios only version so one can buy one piano (or have one model free). This is really steep. I would not use Pianoteq on PC, but for ios it is a winner.

[yannis D]

9 hours ago, D. Gauss said:

 

Is this true?  you can't just pay $49 and have a single piano?  $139??? that's highway robbery in the app world.

Well B-3X is more expensive but nobody bithces about it 😉 If you are an old user of Pianoteq you only have to update your existing licence for 30$ I think. I've linked my Mac licence to the iOS version and this is what I need to pay to restore my purchases on the iOS platform

[Dr Mike Metlay]

By the way, I almost forgot to mention something very important that a lot of people either don’t know or tend to forget about Pianoteq.

 

Since very early on, the folks at Modartt have been working with a project called KiViR, which is dedicated to software modeling of antique and rare historical keyboard instruments. The KiViR collection is kept up-to-date for each new version of the Pianoteq software, so the models can take advantage of the improved math and new features.

 

There are two important things to know about the KiViR collection.

1. it contains a total of about 14 models, all of which are fully tweakable and which feature a bunch of really cool 19th and early 20th century pianos, other instruments like harpsichord and cimbalom, and a very good model of the Yamaha CP-80… which probably has a more consistent tone and playing feel than the real one ever did.

 

2. It’s free.
(And so is the Bells collection, which has models of Church bells and tubular bells that are really cool.)
 

So you don’t start off with two packs, you start off with 18. And in my experience, some of those old instruments work better than the ones you pay for, in a lot of contexts. In fact, several colleagues deliberately purchased non-piano instrument packs to get started, since they had discovered the free ones worked great for a lot of their piano needs.

 

The one thing you need to know about getting those free packs into your iOS app (they are not loaded with the paid ones) is that the built-in system for adding packs in the app doesn’t work very clearly. It actually works much better to do the following:

 

1. On your iOS device, use Safari or another browser to sign into the Modartt website and into your account.

2. Look for two PTQ files, called KiViR.ptq and Bells.ptq. Download them to your iOS device, and they will be placed in the Files app.
3. Open Files, find those PTQ files, and just click on them. They should automatically load and be recognized by Pianoteq.

 

4. If they are not, you can use the Share command on them and point them at Pianoteq, which should also do the job.
 

You’re welcome. 
 

mike
 

 

[AnotherScott]

4 hours ago, Dockeys said:

I think they should at the very least throw in one free piano. Otherwise youre buying an empty vessel.

 

No, you're not "buying" an empty vessel, since the empty vessel version is free. Dockeys was only wishing you could buy one piano for $49, instead of the smallest buy-in being $139 (which gets you 2+ pianos plus a multi-platform license).

[Thethirdapple]

This is a very nice piano rendition engine, and in general I am happy to compensate the creator of these apps. But I do wonder how much of the cost is due to the “partnerships” and collaboration fees which this project must have baked into its price.

 

Most of us want an authentic sound profile, but really…

 

Do I want an authentic 15th century harpsichord, yup, but what is it worth for only the sound and a few approximated action dynamics? Thats the difficult aspect for me. It reminds me of all the lawsuits for copywriting “musical styles” and chord progressions. Does Steinway actual own the sound profile which their pianos produce?

[D. Gauss]

2 hours ago, yannis D said:

Well B-3X is more expensive but nobody bithces about it 😉  

yes they do, just look at the threads here, and IK isn't very responsive about it either. also, i got it on a super sale for like 50 bucks or something.

[Stokely]

2 hours ago, yannis D said:

Well B-3X is more expensive but nobody bithces about it 😉 If you are an old user of Pianoteq you only have to update your existing licence for 30$ I think. I've linked my Mac licence to the iOS version and this is what I need to pay to restore my purchases on the iOS platform

I heard a lot of bitching about it.  And in fact if vb3m had been out at the time I got B-3X I probably would have gone with that instead because it's a LOT cheaper and still sounds very good IMO.

I don't begrudge manufacturers charging what they do.  IOS app prices do seem ludicrously low, thinking of very good apps like Model D or Zeeon.  I think if 1) I needed/wanted Pianoteq for deskop  OR  2) was really committed to having an ipad central to my live rig, this would be a quick purchase for me.  Unfortunately neither of these is true, I've now got two keyboards with decent organs and no longer need the ipad.  The one caveat is pianos but I'm finding the Nord white grand works well in mono as I had already heard.

[D. Gauss]

3 minutes ago, AnotherScott said:

 

 wishing you could buy one piano for $49, instead of the smallest buy-in being $139 (which gets you 2+ pianos plus a multi-platform license).

that's what i'm saying as well. i.do.not.need.multiplatform.

[yannis D]

1 minute ago, Stokely said:

I heard a lot of bitching about it.  And in fact if vb3m had been out at the time I got B-3X I probably would have gone with that instead because it's a LOT cheaper and still sounds very good IMO.

I don't begrudge manufacturers charging what they do.  IOS app prices do seem ludicrously low, thinking of very good apps like Model D or Zeeon.  I think if 1) I needed/wanted Pianoteq for deskop  OR  2) was really committed to having an ipad central to my live rig, this would be a quick purchase for me.  Unfortunately neither of these is true, I've now got two keyboards with decent organs and no longer need the ipad.  The one caveat is pianos but I'm finding the Nord white grand works well in mono as I had already heard.

Ι too use VB3 and have Pianoteq installed on my macs since day one. I get your point thought. For me 30$ is not too much to restore my purchase on another platform and since I plan to use my ipad more and more, it comes handy. My only (second) thought is that I like too my Ravenscroft piano on the ipad and I still don't know if I really need a second AP or if this isn't just GAS

[D. Gauss]

11 hours ago, Dr Mike Metlay said:

This is a new model for iOS music apps... the mobile version as a no-cost addition to the desktop version, with all of the quality and features. Basically a thank you for buying the desktop software, a part of an overall ecosystem where the owner of the plug-in is given some really nice extras.

atm, i have no need/interest for the desktop version, nor an "ecosystem," or a modelled classical guitar.  a single, good sounding, lightweight, mono compatible, ios piano for crappy bar r&r gigs is all i require.  At $49, i'd be willing to take that plunge. at $139? not so much because crappy bar gigs pay poorly here, and the drunk audience isn't going to notice the sound difference.    

[AnotherScott]

30 minutes ago, Thethirdapple said:

But I do wonder how much of the cost is due to the “partnerships” and collaboration fees which this project must have baked into its price.

...

Does Steinway actual own the sound profile which their pianos produce?

 

I imagine Modartt could provide all the same models without identifying them as such, and they probably do pay licensing fees to use the names... but they probably also sell that many more copies of Pianoteq because they use the names. 

 

 

[tfort]

A key point to remember about Pianoteq’s pricing scheme is that what you get for iOS is the same as what you get for desktop. The quality of the software and the quality of the sounds it creates are identical— the iOS version isn’t “cut down” in any way, with fewer or lower resolution samples, fewer velocity layers, fewer controls, etc.

 

Thinking about it that way, how would you feel if the PC/Windows version cost $50, and the Mac version cost $139? Or the Linux version was occasionally on sale for $35? It’s the same with iOS/iPad OS, except for the expectation of low prices that the drive to the bottom in App Store prices has created.

 

Same software, same price, any/all platforms. Fair. Seems like too much? There’s a free full sound quality trial version that’s super easy to install. Try it and if it doesn’t provide enough value for you, don’t buy it.

 

Also- think of it the reverse way— say you had paid $139 for a desktop Stage version, and then maybe upgraded to Standard and bought a few instrument packs over the years, so had a few hundred bucks invested. How would you feel about a) having to pay again to get the iOS version, and b) new iOS customers of Pianoteq getting the SAME software you paid hundreds for, for much less money???

 

I don’t mind paying a relatively high price for software that I actually use, but I do expect to be treated _fairly_. I wouldn’t pick up Pianoteq on a lark like I did Galileo or NeoSoul studio, or more than a few synths, but that’s the point of professional level software. 

 

If the iOS/iPad OS version of Pianoteq came in at $50 per instrument, how would all the existing desktop users who paid far more feel? And would anyone buy the desktop version anymore? What would that do to the economics of Modartt’s business model? Modartt is a small company with a handful of employees who develop Pianoteq and Organteq. It’s been updated for years, getting better all the time. We undercut their bottom line, and then Pianoteq will disappear.

 

I’m really pleased with this pricing and activation structure.

 

I’m also pleased with the convergence of technologies that I see coming down the road in the near future. Buy a decent controller with MIDI 2.0 and a USB-C port that has the action you want and meets your size/weight constraints. Pair that with an iPhone to have the world of sounds at your fingertips, able to be upgraded easily, with the ability to mix and match the best piano sounds you want with the best organ sounds you want, with the best synth sounds you want… If you want a bigger interface, then use the iPad you already have at the gig to show charts to also run your instruments.  Some people will always want a knobby interface and internal sounds from their instruments, so the hardware instruments will always have a place, but those manufactures will  also be forced to compete with another paradigm, one where the sound engines can forever be easily and affordably updated and the amount of memory and computational power available are increasing every year. Good hardware makers also won’t be held back by also having to try to be good software makers.

[D. Gauss]

17 minutes ago, tfort said:

If the iOS/iPad OS version of Pianoteq came in at $50 per instrument, how would all the existing desktop users who paid far more feel?

apples to oranges. fwiw, ravenscroft is $35 ios, $199 desktop.  VB3m is $15, VB3 desktop is $100.  if IOS actually ran all the full-fledged DAW's like MacOS can (protools, logic, reaper, etc), then it might be different.  As it stands, i use no IOS apps for recording, only playing live. 

[AnotherScott]

Question: Is there any way to leave the piano model selection screen up while making selections, instead of having that window auto-close once you make a selection? It's annoying to have to keep going to that page. I know you can also use the arrow to advance to the next preset, but it's a small target when trying stuff out, and also doesn't let you go back and forth between two non-adjacent sounds to compare them.

 

BTW, in case no one noticed... the only piano models not identified by name are the ones from Yamaha and Kawai. I guess either they wanted too much money, or just out-and-out refused, which would be understandable since, unlike the other companies, they have a lot invested in marketing their own digital pianos. And then in the electric stuff, they use the Hohner name, but not the Rhodes or Wurlitzer names.

[tfort]

2 hours ago, D. Gauss said:

apples to oranges. fwiw, ravenscroft is $35 ios, $199 desktop.  VB3m is $15, VB3 desktop is $100.  if IOS actually ran all the full-fledged DAW's like MacOS can (protools, logic, reaper, etc), then it might be different.  As it stands, i use no IOS apps for recording, only playing live. 

 

I would argue that with Pianoteq, it’s apples to apples; while with those other companies it may be apples to oranges. That’s the point I was trying to make above.

 

Your points about cheaper iOS software are entirely valid, though. Ravenscroft iOS isn’t the full desktop quality, but is far, far cheaper. VB3m is the quality of VB3 rather than VB3II iirc, but it’s really quite good and some people prefer the older version I think? For your use case (mobile for gigging, desktop for studio), having a “lite” version of software to use on stage makes some sense. But what if you could use the same quality both places for not much more money, or the same money if you already had the desktop version as many people here already do?

 

As phones and tablets become capable of running the same software and providing the same sound quality as desktop computers and laptops, the “mobile cheap, pc expensive” paradigm is going to come under pressure. I think Modartt is threading the needle well, but another option is that all prices might converge to some in-between point. I certainly think the $1-$5 prices of a lot of mobile software (or $25 for good music software) is unsustainable and leaves the user prone to freemium schemes with invasive ads, being tracked, and their user data sold so the developer can make enough money to survive. No thanks.

 

Re. full-fledged DAWS- it may be that on mobile devices, a different paradigm is more suitable than simply bringing the same laptop user interface to mobile, but you also make a valid point there. Rumors have pointed to Apple bringing out their pro software on iOS for years, including this just this past week:

https://appleinsider.com/articles/23/05/02/final-cut-pro-with-feature-parity-due-on-ipad-by-2024-claims-iffy-rumor

 

Too bad Logic is rumored to finally arrive in 2025. I wonder if Yamaha/Steinberg might beat them to the punch and bring Cubasis up to feature parity with Cubase before Apple gets Logic on iPadOS. Once you’ve got your software running on M-series processors on MacOS, the core of it is available to run on iOS and iPadOS as they run the same processors. I’d imagine that Steinberg has considered this and is acting on it in the background; there’s money to be made and market share to claim. Stage Manager on iPad OS is rumored to get significantly better with iOS 17 this year as well, in which case the suitability of using an iPad to run your studio becomes even more tenable.

 

One point to remember behind all of this is that the number of computer users/owners has been stagnant or going down for decades. The market of potential users on mobile devices is so much bigger— orders of magnitude bigger. Lots of potential there for software developers, but also danger if they undercut the value of their desktop software that has allowed them to stay in business.

[Radagast]

15 hours ago, ElmerJFudd said:

 Pianoteq is a strong name in virtual pianos even if Modartt isn’t as recognized as a brand.  But, who else has stronger modeled pianos on iOS?  Heck, only Roland has worked this hard on modeled pianos and they are absent on iOS.  
 

 

 Viscount also has piano modeling in their Physis pianos.  Viscount is probably ahead of Modarrt in modeling pipe organs.

[AnotherScott]

6 minutes ago, Radagast said:

Viscount also has piano modeling in their Physis pianos. 

 

They've moved away from that, though. The Physis piano line is discontinued, and their current Legend ’70s acoustic pianos are sampled.

[ElmerJFudd]

12 minutes ago, Radagast said:

 Viscount also has piano modeling in their Physis pianos.  Viscount is probably ahead of Modarrt in modeling pipe organs.

Right, of course. They get very little attention in the US with their modeled acoustic piano instruments (I don’t think their distribution and dealer network is very strong in the US).   That said, Viscount is also absent from iOS.  So really, acoustic modeling of Pianos on iOS devices is Modartt’s game right now. 

[GovernorSilver]

I took a peek at the Pianoteq thread on the Audiobus forum, aka IOS music central.  9 pages long and counting.  Some initial shock at the pricing, but they seem to be getting over it and buying it, which surprises me because they're notorious for wanting all apps to cost $20 or less.

[ninobeatz]

So glad to have Pianoteq on iOS!! There’s truly nothing like it there. Thank you Modartt!!

[ninobeatz]

16 minutes ago, GovernorSilver said:

I took a peek at the Pianoteq thread on the Audiobus forum, aka IOS music central.  9 pages long and counting.  Some initial shock at the pricing, but they seem to be getting over it and buying it, which surprises me because they're notorious for wanting all apps to cost $20 or less.

As an admin of one of the iOS music groups, I can confirm this is true about pricing. But, those of us on iOS understand what Modartt has done here is groundbreaking and needed. Everyone is starting to come around. Just a little sticker shock..that’s all 😂🤣

[Jose EB5AGV]

My first Pianoteq was version 6 Stage (educational license as I was, and am, still studying on a music school). After some months, version 7 was launched. And, to my delight, I got it for free!. Then I upgraded to 7 Stage and, when 8 was launched, pretty cheaply to 8 Stage. Meanwhile, I got a total of 8 instrument packs, at nicely discounted prices.

 

I used Pianoteq on my two main music PCs, so I used 2 of the 3 available licenses.

 

Now, I have installed it on my iPad and, voilà, I have it and all my packs available for free 🥳

 

For me, it is a great deal and thank Moddart for its cross- platform approach 👍🏻

 

Jose