Yamaha Montage successor incoming

[1203]

On 2/24/2023 at 7:38 PM, Stokely said:

Agreed on the YC especially.   

I really like Purgatory Creek samples though, so unless the YC can load in libraries I'd still favor the Montage for that type of flexibility.

I used the Purgatory Creek samples in my MODX too and i liked it very much. But i must say, the Rhodes, Wurly samples in my YC73 are so good (same level as Purgatory Rhodes/Wurlys for me), that i don‘t miss anything. 

[AnotherScott]

29 minutes ago, LarsHarner2 said:

I also wanted to add although slightly off topic, I see some of the VST people have emulations of the Sy77 & 99, (wouldnt mind a 55). I am wondering if any of these are good, and as well if there were any Motif software emulations.

Check Halion which is supposed to have a lot of the Motif sounds in it.

[M_G]

 

OK guys, when ?

 

I just tested the K2700. But I can't stand that Fatar keybed, sorry....

 

Ordering a Montage 8 or waiting?

But how long ????

[Jose EB5AGV]

 

2 hours ago, M_G said:

 

OK guys, when ?

 

I just tested the K2700. But I can't stand that Fatar keybed, sorry....

 

Ordering a Montage 8 or waiting?

But how long ????

 

I would wait for the new model to be presented and then buy a used Montage 8 for a very good price. Then repeat 5 years or so later with new model... That way you have always access to mature technology, not beta testing for the manufacturer and saving about half the price.

 

Let early adopters pay the urge to have the latest and greatest 😉

 

Jose

[Stokely]

There are good deals on used Montage 8s and Fantom 8s at GC (where I tend to buy).   I'd get one but I want a gigging keyboard and those are too big and heavy (both are around 62 pounds and ginormous).

[CyberGene]

45 minutes ago, EB5AGV said:

would wait for the new model to be presented and then buy a used Montage 8 for a very good price. Then repeat 5 years or so later with new model...

Another option is to wait for the new Montage to be announced and buy it immediately. And then wait 5 years for the replacement to be announced and to order it right away 😀

[jeffincltnc]

1 hour ago, EB5AGV said:

That way you have always access to mature technology

That way you have always access to discontinued technology.

 

There.  I fixed it for you.

[Jose EB5AGV]

2 hours ago, jeffinpghpa said:

That way you have always access to discontinued technology.

 

There.  I fixed it for you.

 

I don't see it that way... In this case, the MODX+ is a recent product and will be sold for some time... You know the core technology of the Montage is exactly the same. So, if not on the flagship, the technology will be still current, if no the last one.

 

All in all, your POV is perfectly fine for me. There should be early adopters for my plan to work! 😁

 

Jose

[stoken6]

1 hour ago, jeffinpghpa said:

2 hours ago, EB5AGV said:

That way you have always access to mature technology

That way you have always access to discontinued technology.

 

There.  I fixed it for you.

Once again, it's worth stating that (unless and until keyboards go the way of other internet-connected devices such as home security) a keyboard provides exactly as much capability on the day before its successor is launched, as on the day after. 

 

Support for spare parts, repairs tends to last far beyond the date of discontinuation.

 

(Disclosure: my gigging rig consists of a board launched 18 years ago and one launched 10 years ago).

 

Cheers, Mike.

[uhoh7]

Their most successful series was the Motif and it's relations. 

 

A genuine standalone capable workstation should be available from Yamaha with all bells whistles, so users can choose how they use it and adjust in future. That would include all the Motif/Montage/Genos tricks and somethng like a ZOOM R20 onboard, so it could be a band brain. Multi-track sequencers a no-brainer. Multiple CV Gates and Levels, with Hi-rez recording. Sophisticated multi channel looping. MPE and MIDI 2.0 translation and routing. A hardware design which gets large samples through a DSP fast....would be apreciated. Onboard amp at least able to power passive speakers in a lounge. These are not large. Also could give opportunity to market speakers.

 

Available in both lightweight and studio iterations. 

 

That would be alot of work. But would not require any hardware that does not exist. However, it's so much easier to cherry-pick features and require a DAW for everything else. But that is not going to stimulate sales greatly. A serious workstation, state of the art....that would. 

 

Of course they do have a great crew of demonstrators who did a very impressive salesjob with MODX. But it's had a pale stage impact in comparison to the MOTIF which remains in wide use and retains high reputation. 

 

Whatever they produce, more friendly documentation would enhance sales. They put out tutorials, but they tend to be piecemeal, a feature here, and engine there. Pretty soon you are in the weeds with a big menu reference, often hard to prioritse and imagine application. Usually many crucial tricks are buried. A real in depth video reference, covering all features, at release, that would be nice. They have the talent, and the gear. 

 

There are many examples in technology where the opensource model has saved much money and solved many problems. The little ol internet a case in point. 

[felis]

On 2/25/2023 at 1:20 PM, AnotherScott said:

Check Halion which is supposed to have a lot of the Motif sounds in it.

 

Halion also shows what could be possible in a future AN-X.

 

It's had a VA zone for a long time, and it's more advance than any of the Yamaha AN/VA hardware I've had.

[Jose EB5AGV]

I guess the YC 1.3 update kind of trashes 4.0 for Montage today at Blake Angelos Tech Talk... Because it would be logical IMO to present all software updates on same video. So it seems new hardware could be the answer for today's announcement.

 

Let's see if it is the Montage+ (my guess), a new AN-2X or whatever! 🤔

 

Jose

[ProfD]

On 3/20/2023 at 2:21 PM, uhoh7 said:

A genuine standalone capable workstation should be available from Yamaha with all bells whistles, so users can choose how they use it and adjust in future. That would include all the Motif/Montage/Genos tricks and somethng like a ZOOM R20 onboard, so it could be a band brain. Multi-track sequencers a no-brainer.

IMO, a super synth workstation will not take off especially nowadays because:

 

1) Bands are not led by KB players

2) Most Electronic musicians do not use KB workstations as the centerpiece of their rigs.

3) Computers offer a more powerful modular approach both in studio and onstage

 

IOW, synth workstations are outdated.

 

That's why Yamaha moved away from the workstation starting with the Montage. 

 

A KB that feels good to plug and play and has onboard sound and computer connectivity is now and into the future.   

 

No workstation required.😎

[Stokely]

That is me in a nutshell.  I've owned a number of workstations, starting with the Motif classic, and never once fired up the sequencer on any of them.  I've been sequencing on computers since the late 80s and there's no advantage of doing it on a keyboard (for me).  Heck hardware keyboards I own are strictly for gigging at this point, I'm all "in the box".  Gigs, I like hardware.

Any sequencer or "workstation" functionality is a bit of a negative, as it means extra buttons cluttering up the joint.

Simply put, workstations have been the keyboards offering both a wide range of sounds and the ability to use more than one at a time.   My perfect keyboard is something much more like a Nord Stage, but I've always bought workstations used at FAR less money, so I've never gotten a Stage.  (I might though soon, I have a bead on a used Stage 3 of a friend of mine, have to sell something first!)

[AnotherScott]

On 3/19/2023 at 4:22 PM, stoken6 said:

Once again, it's worth stating that (unless and until keyboards go the way of other internet-connected devices such as home security) a keyboard provides exactly as much capability on the day before its successor is launched, as on the day after. 

 

This is probably my single biggest issue with an iPad-based rig. You do a software update, and then maybe one of your apps stops working and never gets updated for the new OS. You can try to freeze your iPad at its current OS, but Apple keeps insisting on trying to update it, and someday, you'll tap the wrong thing, and it will happen. Or something will misbehave in some way where the only fix is to re-install... but you can't re-install the old OS, only the newest one. Unlike a Mac or PC, there's no way to re-install an old OS, there's not even any way to back up all your apps, they ended that after iOS 9. If you have a catastrophic failure (or theft, whatever) and need to replace the iPad, you won't be able to re-install your old apps unless they are still available on the app store. They usually are... but if a developer is out of business or has pulled the product or is otherwise no longer paying their fee to Apple, it will be gone.

 

Of course, a hardware board can fail, and you may not be able to get a part to get it going again, but it's generally a less tenuous situation. At least (like a Mac or PC, but not an iPad), you can always look around for a used one, and install all your old programs onto it from your backup.

[ProfD]

20 minutes ago, Stokely said:

Heck hardware keyboards I own are strictly for gigging at this point, I'm all "in the box".  Gigs, I like hardware.

Any sequencer or "workstation" functionality is a bit of a negative, as it means extra buttons cluttering up the joint.

Simply put, workstations have been the keyboards offering both a wide range of sounds and the ability to use more than one at a time.   My perfect keyboard is something much more like a Nord Stage, but I've always bought workstations used at FAR less money, so I've never gotten a Stage. 

Right.

 

To be fair, many years ago, workstations offered the most bang for the buck. The value worked from studio to stage.

 

A workstation as a completely self-contained KB (sounds, synth parameters, sequencer, sampler, arps, etc.) allowed musicians to bring their sound design and music composition ideas to fruition.

 

However, most gigging musicians do not need all of the bells and whistles found in a workstation. A ROMpler full of sounds will suffice.

 

Truth be told, most gigging musicians do not use the full potential of synthesizers either.  ROMplers have a decent facsimile of synth sounds used on iconic recordings too.

 

That's why Nord make such a big splash 20 years ago.  Nord KBs offered performing musicians the sounds and features they could use and left out the distractions, er, bells and whistles (sequencer, sampler, drum machine, etc.).

 

Typically late to the party as usual, the big KB manufacturers have just gotten around to figuring out musicians primarily need a box full of sounds that plays well.

 

IMO, a ROMpler, DP or clonewheel especially those with basic synth parameter controls can eliminate workstations and synths from 98% of all performance-oriented KB rigs.  😎

[pjd]

10 hours ago, EB5AGV said:

Let's see if it is the Montage+ (my guess), a new AN-2X or whatever! 🤔

 

Lest anyone forget, Yamaha added AN and VL to AWM ------------ twenty-five years ago. Yamaha EX5 and EX7. 🙂

 

Too much time chasing unicorns.... 🙃

 

-- pj

 

http://sandsoftwaresound.net/awm-an-and-vl-in-one-yamaha-synth/

 

[Docbop]

Press Release.....  Yamaha announces new development partnership Amazon Drone Delivery team.   We are proud to annouce our first product the YamaZon  Keyboard Drone.      Everyone has heard all you guys bitch and whine... My keyboard is too heavy!   No more whining with thee YamaZon delivery system.     

 

Finish playing that grueling pool party just disconnect all the cords from the Montage++++,  strapon the Lifting Jock, grad the control and fly the YamZon drove and use Auto Hover and connect the Lifting Jock to the drone.   Now slamp those leveler and fly your new Montage++++ to your SUV and open the back and land your keyboard.   Put the YamaZon in hover, disconnect and then fly it to the roof of your SUV where it will magnetically stay in place until you get back home.   

 

YamaZon means you can only bitch about the Leslie now!!!!

[o0Ampy0o]

...and the ever-go-to-bitch-target guitar players.

[Jose EB5AGV]

2 hours ago, pjd said:

 

Lest anyone forget, Yamaha added AN and VL to AWM ------------ twenty-five years ago. Yamaha EX5 and EX7. 🙂

 

Too much time chasing unicorns.... 🙃

 

-- pj

 

http://sandsoftwaresound.net/awm-an-and-vl-in-one-yamaha-synth/

 

 

The thing is... In my synth collection I have an EX5, an EX5R and an EX7. Perhaps is time to get them out of storage and play them!. I have also a couple AN-1X  (yes, I got them at a very good price, so could not resist getting two). And to complete the list of nice / different synths, an FS-1R

 

I wonder why I am so obsessed with the AN-X engine on the Montage 😆!

 

But, please Yamaha, add it!!! 🤣

 

Jose (synth-aholic)

[Stokely]

3 hours ago, o0Ampy0o said:

...and the ever-go-to-bitch-target guitar players.

That's what the optional machine gun emplacements for the YamaZon are for.

You can also opt for the "find the lead singer after the show, who despite or because of having no gear manages to get out of sight instantly" tracking feature.

A tad more seriously...I no longer pine as much for an AN-X, simply because after hearing some recordings and doing some programming on my Modx, I don't feel the synth sounds are the weakness I I did originally.  Unlike the b3--for which I require an ipad--I'm pretty happy with the synths.  It took starting from scratch and avoiding the stock patches like the plague, other than maybe one or two moog-ish patches.  The pads are excellent, the poly sounds are not (not for vintage stuff).  End of the day, sure it's not an Oberheim or perhaps even a Fantom, but it can sound really good.  I ended up buying the Analog Xperience library and there's some really good stuff in there to go with my custom ones (and I'm far from an expert programmer so mine are pretty basic.)  As a nice bonus, that library has a great sync sample patch, that is one thing that you need virtual analog for and now I don't for the two songs where I use a patch (one being Let's Go)   

All that said, AN-X plus AWM wouldn't be a bad thing    

[zephonic]

So...still nothing?

[ProfD]

1 hour ago, zephonic said:

So...still nothing?

Maybe Yammie gonna lower the boom tomorrow and unveil a....Montague. 🤣😎

[Stokely]

Yamaha forums aren't too optimistic, the thinking being that a new keyboard would be unveiled on day 1 giving people time to actually see, hear and play it.

Right now used Montage prices are quite reasonable, I wouldn't be in the market for some $4000+ keyboard anyway, I doubt any new Montage would drive down the old ones in price much more than they are.  I'd only get a white one though   

[Jose EB5AGV]

1 hour ago, Stokely said:

Yamaha forums aren't too optimistic, the thinking being that a new keyboard would be unveiled on day 1 giving people time to actually see, hear and play it.

Right now used Montage prices are quite reasonable, I wouldn't be in the market for some $4000+ keyboard anyway, I doubt any new Montage would drive down the old ones in price much more than they are.  I'd only get a white one though   

 

Yes, market price for used Montage is already pretty low. My white 6, just 10 months old and barely used was just 1550€. It can't go much lower (I paid 1200€ for my new MODX6+!)

 

Jose

[CyberGene]

As previously opined by @ProfD in this or another thread, musicians are shifting towards Nord Stage or Yamaha YC/CP/CK types of instruments for live playing and DAW/plugins in the studio. How many people still buy complicated workstations?

[ludo]

7 minutes ago, CyberGene said:

As previously opined by @ProfD in this or another thread, musicians are shifting towards Nord Stage or Yamaha YC/CP/CK types of instruments for live playing and DAW/plugins in the studio. How many people still buy complicated workstations?

So true...

[ludo]

When i see Matt Johnson on Youtube playing his white Montage 8, i only hear lefthand (Fender)bas + a nice (phased) Rhodespatch but i enjoy this so much.... (+ that Tempest drummachine). I can't get enough of his playing style. Just piano (acoustic or electric),bas  and drums...Wow...

[Stokely]

1 hour ago, CyberGene said:

As previously opined by @ProfD in this or another thread, musicians are shifting towards Nord Stage or Yamaha YC/CP/CK types of instruments for live playing and DAW/plugins in the studio. How many people still buy complicated workstations?

That's me as well, although the Stage kind of stands alone in that category if you need a certain level of synth capability.   If the YC had a comparable and programmable synth engine I'd be all over it seeing as the price is much better.   

[Alkeys]

I had several Motifs and I remember all my friends making fun of what a stupid name Motif was.  They would always call it my  "Mo' Teef" or say: "Hey did you bring the Mo' Toofases?  I got a cavity and my toofases are killing me!"

 

Montage was a pretty ridiculous name as well.

 

What's next?  Introducing... the Yamaha Aperitif or............. the Yamaha Montague?

 

What I didn't like about he Montage: 

• Superknob I thought was gimmicky and child-like- equally as lame as Roland's D-beam.  Obviously something marketing thought of.
• The rounded chassis looks like it should say Tupperware on the outside of it. Same with the MODX.  C'mon Yamaha give us some metal and some angles again like on the Motif.
• The thing is huge! A lot of the real estate is taken up by all these faders.  Like I don't need my keyboard to look like a recording console.  Everyone uses their computers to record.  I agree with what some others have said and I never use the onboard sequencer.  Workstations are dead and a 1987 concept.