Yamaha Montage successor incoming

[Stokely]

re: sequencer....It adds a bunch of buttons that get in the way of my ipad   Seriously, one nice thing about the Modx7 is that my ipad sits in a nice clear spot on the right.  The buttons that are there I tend to use.

I get the feeling from other forums there still are a lot of people using the workstations as workstations.  I only buy them for their layering and overall sound flexibility.   

More "oomph" to the synth sounds (whatever that means, they just tend to sound weedy to me) and an organ that is good without me needing an ipad are my two main wishes for this.  I actually get along well with the Modx operating system, obviously that is a very subjective thing.    A free Yahama librarian (if not editor) like Novation provides would be welcome.   Being able to use usb and midi at the same time would be great, that seems like a pretty awful design flaw.

[ElmerJFudd]

1 hour ago, zephonic said:

 

Honestly, I haven't touched an onboard sequencer in 15 years.

 

But I will say that the one in the Fantom X is a lot spunkier/tighter/groovier than any DAW I have used. Same goes for the old MPC. I used to go back and forth between the Fantom sequencer and computer just for that, but over time I got lazy. 

 

I bet by now the sequencer adds next to nothing in terms of development or production cost, so why not have it in there? 

Personally, I'm way more interested in the live performance features of a keyboard than in its ability to produce a record without a Mac/PC.  And because of that I prefer the user interface be largely buttons, knobs, and switches dedicated to specific functions.   As opposed to only a few controls with many functions constantly changing with the menu on a little screen. 

 

That fork in the road is where all the developers are right now.  Which type of instrument do their customers want?  How many people have shifted to Mac/PC DAW?  How did Nord sneak in and steal some % of their sales with less features, lower specs?  The CP and YC are clearly a reaction to these trends.  So is a Montage successor more performance or a more production type board.  And if it's a hybrid.  Which features stay, which go and how well can they improve on interface design?  Because most boards in this range are expected to sound great, have a top tier action.  But how easy is it to use?  That's where I would be focusing my attention.  Not to sideline the current obsession with recreations of vintage synths.  Clearly Roland has bet the farm on Zencore to emulate their legacy in synthesis.  I would imagine Yamaha will put both FM-X and AN-X in one board going forward.

[ProfD]

6 hours ago, EB5AGV said:

For me there is not big problem on the arrival of a new model, as I am just using perhaps 20% of Montage potential...

Do not feel bad as you are not alone.😁

2 hours ago, pjd said:

Ah, yes, the "second coming." Didn't we go through this hysteria last summer with MODX -> MODX+? Unabated anticipation followed by complaining 5 minutes after the drop. 🙂

 

I expect Yamaha to revert to its mean, AKA incremental evolution consistent with its historical practice.

Sad but true.  The manufacturers will continue to offer crumbs of improvement and treat their loyal customers like bridesmaids.😎

[AnotherScott]

2 hours ago, zephonic said:

I bet by now the sequencer adds next to nothing in terms of development or production cost, so why not have it in there? 

 

The thing Yamaha workstation-type boards have been most beaten up about over the years has been that they are complicated. They re-did pretty much every aspect of the interface with the Montage, I'm sure largely in an attempt to simplify. Smoothly integrating a full traditional sequencer into the rest of that interface is not necessarily trivial, and will almost certainly add complication.

 

Every time you add options, even if someone doesn't use them, it makes the board harder to use, because there's more stuff to go through to try to locate the thing you're looking for. If you only care about 3 options, a screen where those 3 options are located within a menu of 5 options is immediately simpler than a screen where those 3 options are located within a menu of 10.

[Mighty Motif Max]

Hope they can get the weight down on the 88. ~64 lbs is a beast and one of the few things I regret about my Motif XF8.

[Bobadohshe]

As an everyday Montage user what would interest me is:

 

-adding serious organ capabilities

-adding a modern synth palette of sounds ala Sylenth / Serum, as well as modern sounding effects (like Valhalla style reverb)

-A boost in orchestral sample ROM and presets. I know it's lightyears ahead of where it was 10 years ago on any keyboard, but libraries like Spitfire and East West are themselves lightyears ahead of the Montage.

-making the super knob implementation easier.

 

These would address areas that it is getting edged out by other competitors at the moment. (Nord on point 1, all the modern dedicated mono/polysynth reissues, Kurzweil) respectively.

 

There are other things that would appeal to other people but for my needs these are all the ares I find most deficient.

[Mighty Motif Max]

Let’s also see some freely-assignable midi channels. I don’t care as much about the sequencer as I used to.

[Jim Alfredson]

Somebody really needs to make a photoshop of a keyboard with all the features that people request on these forums. It would be the equivalent of the car Homer designed for his brother's car company. 

[miden]

It's possibly why the Nords are so successful - they are very straightforward stage keyboards. Everything you need is right there in front of you.

[counterpoint]

9 hours ago, Jim Alfredson said:

Somebody really needs to make a photoshop of a keyboard with all the features that people request on these forums. It would be the equivalent of the car Homer designed for his brother's car company. 

Please include a "Guitarist Volume" knob....

[UnderGroundGr]

59 minutes ago, miden said:

It's possibly why the Nords are so successful - they are very straightforward stage keyboards. Everything you need is right there in front of you.

Poor playable keybeds(the only company who use Fatar keybeds and set them to bad) and very expensive...

I had one original stage 88 and an electro 3...

[HammondDave]

The feature I am waiting for is an artificial intelligence chip that can make me play like Chic Corea…

[drumtek101]

I’m hoping that Yamaha will revisit the “S90” concept. That was the one board from Yamaha that I feel had everything a gigging musician needed at the time. Add in the current features of the Montage/MODX+ and the keybed of the CP88 and I’ll preorder it yesterday.

[Motif88]

I had three (3) of the Montage predecessors , the Yamaha Motif. Hated the OS and DOS like functionality of the instruments. Moved to Kronos and now prefer software and a decent action keyboard. Maybe Yamaha could update the software UI so it doesn’t look and feel like 1995?

[AnotherScott]

14 minutes ago, Motif88 said:

I had three (3) of the Montage predecessors , the Yamaha Motif. Hated the OS and DOS like functionality of the instruments. Moved to Kronos and now prefer software and a decent action keyboard. Maybe Yamaha could update the software UI so it doesn’t look and feel like 1995?

Yamaha did update the software UI in the Montage.

 

Funny analogy to Kronos, though. It doesn't remind me of DOS, but it does kinda remind me of, say, Windows 95. :-)

[Stokely]

As noted above, the Montage/Modx is very different from the older Yamaha workstation OSes.  I did a lot of sound programming on my Motif and the Modx is night and day easier (to me at least).  The sound architecture also was changed away from Voices and Performances, I think there are pros and cons with this, more pros than cons.    I'm not a huge touch screen fan for most things but there are times it's very useful.

Honestly there's not too much I really have for a wishlist, even the "analog" sounds aren't shabby once you get away from the stock patches...I purchased "Analog Xperience" and there are some really nice patches with that.   Still uses samples as the underlying "oscillators" but the sound is good.  Organ, sure, not great but if I don't bring my SK Pro I bring my ipad with B-3X.  I'm keeping an eye out for a used white Montage 6 or 7 (8 is too heavy) and if this pushes prices down at all or makes people want to flip, that might be the best feature of this new one.

 

[ProfD]

3 hours ago, UnderGroundGr said:

Poor playable keybeds(the only company who use Fatar keybeds and set them to bad) and very expensive...

I had one original stage 88 and an electro 3...

Yet, there's a 10 page and sprawling, er, counting thread dedicated to the Nord Stage 4.😁😎

[stoken6]

On 2/22/2023 at 7:16 PM, U.Honey said:

My sources tell me it is called Mon-Stage. It's similar to the current model except that the color is red and the price tag is $2k higher..

And fixed split points.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[Al Coda]

8 hours ago, HammondDave said:

I am waiting for ... an artificial intelligence chip that can make me play like Chic Corea

 

I got the prototype in 1972 already,-

unfortunately, no progress since then ...

 

A.C.

 

 

[CEB]

What I miss from the Yamaha stable is something like the S90xx. Flagship quality hardware and sounds without the sequencer and other ancillary functionality. But I absolutely want at least 8 internal and 8 external zones.  The MODX hardware just don’t do it for me. But I still play my S90XS at rehearsals.  Simplicity that feels good. And it was somewhat lighter than a full blown Motif. 

[Stokely]

I liked the action on the s90 but man it is huge.  Even the s70 is big.

I'm already seeing one of the used Montages on GC drop in price a couple hundred.  Probably a coincidence, I've seen it on there for at least  a few weeks and they are probably just trying to move it.   Not a white one or I'd be tempted!   

 

[AnotherScott]

3 hours ago, CEB said:

What I miss from the Yamaha stable is something like the S90xx. Flagship quality hardware and sounds without the sequencer and other ancillary functionality. But I absolutely want at least 8 internal and 8 external zones.  

The S90SX had only 4 external zones (and 4 internal sounds in a Performance, though the Multi mode could let you get past that).

 

I think manufacturers probably think that people who want "simple" boards without a lot of excess stuff, and people who need more than 4 external zones, are largely two different types of buyers. ;-)

 

I guess the closest Yamaha to to an S90-type of board today is the CP88/YC88, which support 3 internal sounds (albeit single split point) and 4 external ones. (Though they made controlling the volumes of the external ones unnecessarily complicated.)

 

From other companies... maybe a Roland RD2000? I think that gives you 8 zones, any of which can be internal or external, and sounds like it might be the closest thing to what you're looking for. If you go back down to a fixed max of 4 external zones, Kawai MP7SE and Dexibell S7/S10 arguably become possibilities, at least in functionality.

[ElmerJFudd]

1 hour ago, AnotherScott said:

The S90SX had only 4 external zones (and 4 internal sounds in a Performance, though the Multi mode could let you get past that).

 

I think manufacturers probably think that people who want "simple" boards without a lot of excess stuff, and people who need more than 4 external zones, are largely two different types of buyers. 😉

 

I guess the closest Yamaha to to an S90-type of board today is the CP88/YC88, which support 3 internal sounds (albeit single split point) and 4 external ones. (Though they made controlling the volumes of the external ones unnecessarily complicated.)

 

From other companies... maybe a Roland RD2000? I think that gives you 8 zones, any of which can be internal or external, and sounds like it might be the closest thing to what you're looking for. If you go back down to a fixed max of 4 external zones, Kawai MP7SE and Dexibell S7/S10 arguably become possibilities, at least in functionality.

All Yamaha has to do in the next CP/YC is add a VA synth section and a more complete list of orch  sounds in the Sub section.      Build is very good, weight is acceptable, action is about as good as we can get from Yamaha or anyone else. 

[Stokely]

Agreed on the YC especially.  Heck I was just jamming on my Modx (which of course has no VA engine so to speak) with some of the Analog Xperience patches I bought and it it sounded great.  Inspiring actually, and I'm not sure I could say that about a single one of the non-pad synth performances (pads are great on the other hand.)   If you can't add an AN-X engine, just add some version of that (AWM2 is it?) and I'd be very interested.   

I've never actually seen one thank to the lousy keyboard stocking around here, I need to watch some YC demos to see what it actually *does* have in it as far as synths. 

I really like Purgatory Creek samples though, so unless the YC can load in libraries I'd still favor the Montage for that type of flexibility.

[AnotherScott]

3 minutes ago, Stokely said:

Agreed on the YC especially.  Heck I was just jamming on my Modx (which of course has no VA engine so to speak) with some of the Analog Xperience patches I bought and it it sounded great.   If you can't add an AN-X engine, just add some version of that (AWM2 is it?) and I'd be very interested.   

I've never actually seen one thank to the lousy keyboard stocking around here, I need to watch some YC demos to see what it actually *does* have in it as far as synths. 

 

YC does have some usable AWM2 synth-like functionality. It has a mono mode with portamento, it has a variety of envelope (attack/decay/release) and filter (cutoff/resonance) settings. But it's limited, and the starting points have to be one of the existing presets. (There's also some limited FM synthesis using the 9 sliders of the organ section.) 

[Stokely]

Sounds like I really want the Yontage, which would ditch the sequencer from the Montage, keep the AWM2 engine, and use the button space for more real-time controls like the YC.  And keep the YC organ, and all somehow using the YC action and with less weight than the Montage.   I reckon a lot of people on this forum would jump on that   Yamaha make it so!  It's not asking for much!

[Motif88]

On 2/23/2023 at 11:11 AM, AnotherScott said:

Yamaha did update the software UI in the Montage.

 

Funny analogy to Kronos, though. It doesn't remind me of DOS, but it does kinda remind me of, say, Windows 95. 🙂

Agreed…

[Moonglow]

On 2/22/2023 at 8:55 AM, CyberGene said:

Do Yamaha tend to announce new products at NAMM or slightly before NAMM, what's the statistics?

The first NAMM show I ever attended was in 2016, where the Montage was introduced. Difficult to make any reliable inferences with n = 1 sample size, but perhaps others can chime in with convergent or divergent evidence.

[LarsHarner2]

Sometimes I wish I kept my original Motif 6 from 2002; could someone please confirm IIRC, although there were 3 main piano sounds, there were both a Yamaha and Steinway sample. It also had a awesome Rhodes called Sweetness which had the phaser used in such songs as Billy Joel's Rosalinda's eyes. I kept it for 8 years before trading in for my Yamaha P-95. 

[LarsHarner2]

I also wanted to add although slightly off topic, I see some of the VST people have emulations of the Sy77 & 99, (wouldnt mind a 55). I am wondering if any of these are good, and as well if there were any Motif software emulations.