Yamaha CP4: A good buy in 2023?

[JamesInPA]

Would you consider the CP4 to be a good buy now?  Or are the better options available?  The board will primarily used for piano.  

[CEB]

It's out of production but the CP4 kicks ass.  Yamaha hasn't introduced anything since that has impressed me more.... but I'm just a boomer.

[jazzpiano88]

2 minutes ago, CEB said:

It's out of production but the CP4 kicks ass.  Yamaha hasn't introduced anything since that has impressed me more.... but I'm just a boomer.

 

Agreed it kicks ass for AP, EP, and split acoustic bass.  You'll get differing opinions compared with the newer CP88 and P515 (I haven't played either of these).  Another plus is it's the lightest (39 v 41 v 49lb)

[ElmerJFudd]

Sure, it’s both a good portable digital piano and midi controller with one of the better weighted actions available (especially at its carrying weight).  There are many offerings, new and second hand, in this category. Make an aggressive but fair offer to the seller. 

[Pianoman JC]

Bought mine here on the forum 5 years ago for a good price. Good EPs and APs and a nice action. 
 

 

 

JC

[D. Gauss]

Perhaps the Numa instead?

[jazzpiano88]

49 minutes ago, Dave Ferris said:

This looks perfect but he's too high and won't come down....didn't Stevie write a tune about that.

https://sandiego.craigslist.org/nsd/msg/d/san-marcos-yamaha-cp4-stage-piano-and/7576993962.html

 

I'm predicting the CP4 will become like the HP15C calculator.   Units in good condition will hold price and increase in value over time as supply dwindles.

Certainly HP makes 'better' calculators now, but the 15C was perfect for what it did, not unlike the CP4.   I feel fortunate to have them both

[16251]

This person has been trying to sell this for a long time.

https://boston.craigslist.org/search/msa?query=cp4#search=1~gallery~0~0

[dazzjazz]

 Got the very first CP4 into Australia years ago. I love it, its a great digital piano.
Its also very flexible with loads of synth sounds that work very well in a band situation. I won’t be selling it any time soon - I don’t feel the need to upgrade at all.

[ludo]

Same here. I bought a second one in summer 2022 for 1000 euro in almost factory new condition.Sounds so good, looks so ‘vintage’ good.

[SteinwayB]

I know how subjective AP sounds are, but I sold my CP4 last summer after purchasing a used NP3.  The White Grand to me makes the CP4's CFX sound like a toy.  The action on the CP4 however was superior to the Nord, which most everybody agrees upon.

[MathOfInsects]

Indeed, it's a very personal choice. 

 

The only thing I can say about Nords from personal experience is that they are eminently tweakable, and a little time nudging preferences yields a huge return. I was a shrug about the samples in my NS3C until I sat down one day and adjusted touch, resonance, pedal noise, detuning layers and the like. The Royal Grand in particular (IMO) responds gorgeously to some personalized care, if you are down for providing it. 

As far as touch/keybed, that's very idiosyncratic to the person. I could not have bonded faster to an action than I did to the Nord Grand. We understood each other immediately, that action and I. But feel is such a personal thing that everything one person likes about an action could be what another one hates about it.

[dazzjazz]

11 minutes ago, Dave Ferris said:

 You know I feel/hear the CP4 working better in a band context, any style, then it does playing it solo at home. There it shows its age. Especially compared to the CP88.

That’s interesting. I should give the CP88 another go, but I hate playing in music stores, it’s so weird! At home I only use it for a midi controller for Keyscape. What do you think about it that is better?

 

Nords have poor finger to sound connection for me. 

[SMcD]

I must say I'm surprised at all the praise for the CP4 action. I used one at a rehearsal last week and it was tough. Felt like pushing a wooden desk with my fingers. Just killed my dexterity entirely.

 

Perhaps my excessive Hammond playing as of late has weakened me?

[MathOfInsects]

5 minutes ago, SMcD said:

I must say I'm surprised at all the praise for the CP4 action. I used one at a rehearsal last week and it was tough. Felt like pushing a wooden desk with my fingers. Just killed my dexterity entirely.

Same.

[MathOfInsects]

2 minutes ago, Dave Ferris said:

I know if I wasn't primarily a jazz player and was more focused on playing chords and other type of playing techniques and vocabularies  that were specific to pop or rock genres, I would most likely take to the Nord Grand. 

I am not sure that what I do is "playing chords," so I can't speak to that. Certainly loads of straight jazzers have bonded with the Grand and other Nords; in fact I'd say it's the board I see used the most in those circles. I think it's really just down to personal preference.

[stoken6]

My issue with Nord+jazz isn't the action, it's the basic tone of the piano. Although its nice and rich in the lower-mids, in the upper midrange (~800Hz) the notes thin out dramatically. So if I'm playing a scalic/linear RH idea (and so likely to be in that zone, an octave or two above Middle C) I lose volume and presence. 

 

And (before anyone answers) EQ is not the answer. If I boost 800Hz I change the tone of the other notes - which sound find to start with. The 20 or so samples in that region are simply too quiet. And that happens on so many of the samples that Nord offers. 

 

Cheers, Mike.

[SteinwayB]

Just shows how subjective and personal this topic is.  I primarily play jazz and the Nord White Grand was a game changer for me; better than any VST or DP I've ever played.  Dave F is a MONSTER jazz pianist and he has a totally different opinion.  I have not tried the P515 as it has not been available to test locally.   BTW, I do need to trim the treble on the White Grand as it is too bright without tweeking.  I would love to try Keyscape; of the VST shootouts I have heard it sounds best to me.  I have been disappointed too many times with expensive VST's that sound great on demos (Ivory I and II, Hammersmith, VSL model D, etc)  and terrible (compared to my CP4) under my fingers.  

[Paul Woodward]

I loved my CP4 and would have kept it had I not moved overseas. When I came back I looked for another but came across a bargain of a Korg Grandstage and I love it. CP4 still has one of my favourite keybeds though.

[jazzpiano88]

Sometimes I think the 'better' the sample/model, the worse it plays in practice.  Note for note, the "better" sample wins, but when played in context, it can fail miserably.   This seems to be especially true with the high end piano samples.   I think what Yamaha brings to the table is the best range of sampled capabilities between pop/rock (C7) and and concert (CFX).   Nothing sounds shitty on a C7 sample/model, but you can certainly f#ck up your Steinway or Bosendoerfer sample to be unplayable in an amplified live context.

 

Edit: 'Sometimes I think the 'better' the sample/model, the worse it plays in practice'.   I liken this to an analogy of a chef overdoing the essence of a dish resulting in 'yeah I see what you wanted to do, but it tastes like sh%t'.

[zephonic]

There's one for sale in the GC Lawndale, CA

[ludo]

9 hours ago, JazzPiano88 said:

Sometimes I think the 'better' the sample/model, the worse it plays in practice.  Note for note, the "better" sample wins, but when played in context, it can fail miserably.   This seems to be especially true with the high end piano samples.   I think what Yamaha brings to the table is the best range of sampled capabilities between pop/rock (C7) and and concert (CFX).   Nothing sounds shitty on a C7 sample/model, but you can certainly f#ck up your Steinway or Bosendoerfer sample to be unplayable in an amplified live context.

 

Edit: 'Sometimes I think the 'better' the sample/model, the worse it plays in practice'.   I liken this to an analogy of a chef overdoing the essence of a dish resulting in 'yeah I see what you wanted to do, but it tastes like sh%t'.

So true ! Sometimes there's to much information in the signal to cut through in a band setting.

The old Kurzweil Triple Strike, Yamaha's P100,P150, P200, P300 (yes...the old P300, not CP), they did a fantastic job in loud band settings because of the not to much but right frequencies...

[Docbop]

15 hours ago, JazzPiano88 said:

Sometimes I think the 'better' the sample/model, the worse it plays in practice.  Note for note, the "better" sample wins, but when played in context, it can fail miserably.   This seems to be especially true with the high end piano samples.   I think what Yamaha brings to the table is the best range of sampled capabilities between pop/rock (C7) and and concert (CFX).   Nothing sounds shitty on a C7 sample/model, but you can certainly f#ck up your Steinway or Bosendorfer sample to be unplayable in an amplified live context.

 

Edit: 'Sometimes I think the 'better' the sample/model, the worse it plays in practice'.   I liken this to an analogy of a chef overdoing the essence of a dish resulting in 'yeah I see what you wanted to do, but it tastes like sh%t'.

 

It's like a chef cooking with salt.... A little can make the meal, but too much ruins the dish. 

 

Reading our reply I thought about EQ when mixing.   Many go through each track solo EQ'ing it to full and to perfection, then they bring up all the tracks and the mix sound like crap way too much bass and muddy and similar issue in  the high end.    All that EQ for each track starts summing in the full mix and blaaaa.     I think a lot of samples get made that way and the summing of the notes in chords doesn't work.   

 

Which I think the  piano sounds on popular live boards when you hear the sound by itself people think it's on the thin side not big and full. but those "thin"  sounding samples sit really well in  the mix of a live band and being a bit midrangey they cut thru the mix and piano is heard.   If you want to add more bottom you can, but hard to get rid of if you don't want it.   

 

I got my Nord I guess about six months ago and I wanted it for the fuller piano sounds but over the months and playing with all the piano sounds I find myself using the I think its called Studio Grand 2 which is a Yamaha C7 Conservatory model.   I find with it I can do more with the clusters and closer voicing I into these days and don't need to spread out my voicing like I feel the need to on the big full samples.  Plus with the Studio Grand sample I can EQ in some more bottom and effects seem to work better with the Studio Grand sample.   I also find the notes to me more defined on the less fully samples versus the big full samples with overtones for days.   

 

Sure for solo piano those big phat Steinway or Bosendorfer sample sound really good and doing music where you want all those overtones to fill out the sound.   But for sounds that you give you lots of flexibility to do what you want the "thinner" samples put you in control. 

 

But hey that just me and I need more coffee. 

 

[jazzpiano88]

6 hours ago, ludo said:

So true ! Sometimes there's to much information in the signal to cut through in a band setting.

The old Kurzweil Triple Strike, Yamaha's P100,P150, P200, P300 (yes...the old P300, not CP), they did a fantastic job in loud band settings because of the not to much but right frequencies...

Ah yes, I owned a P250 before donating it to church and upgrading to the CP300.    Love the CP300.

[Al Coda]

17 hours ago, JazzPiano88 said:

Sometimes I think the 'better' the sample/model, the worse it plays in practice.  Note for note, the "better" sample wins, but when played in context, it can fail miserably.   This seems to be especially true with the high end piano samples.

 

QFT !

 

These are good for solo piano only, but in the rig together w/ synths and s##t, in a playback or in a loud(er) band context, they´l be buried in the mix.

Surprisingly, the Kurzweil pianos, even old triple strike, work well in such context.

 

 

A.C.

[Doerfler]

On 1/30/2023 at 8:33 PM, zephonic said:

There's one for sale in the GC Lawndale, CA

So , I bought this one and had it shipped to DC. Price was right and shipping cross country was pretty quick.

Figured there was a 50/50 chance it would arrive undamaged, and if damaged I could return it to my local GC.

Keyboard arrived yesterday, just got back from returning it. Plastic case did not survive the journey as it was not packed well enough.

Such a shame

[zephonic]

3 hours ago, Doerfler said:

So , I bought this one and had it shipped to DC. Price was right and shipping cross country was pretty quick.

Figured there was a 50/50 chance it would arrive undamaged, and if damaged I could return it to my local GC.

Keyboard arrived yesterday, just got back from returning it. Plastic case did not survive the journey as it was not packed well enough.

Such a shame

 

What a drag, sorry, Dave.

 

[rickzjamm]

Happily owned a CP4 a while back & thought I'd never part with it and then the YC88 came along... 

[DovJ]

Still loving my CP4, 5 years after purchasing it.

 

I also have a YC61, so I have a good feel for the enhanced UI that the newest CP’s and YC’s offer. 

 

Somehow, the CP4 gives me more finger-instrument connection for my classical playing. The new boards have many advantages, but don’t replace the CP4 for me as a graded, weighted, piano-feel board.

[Adam Burgess]

Had a CP33 when they first came out - loved that action.
Lasted me a good few years until I changed to a Stage 2.

Also had a couple of P120s… were they the same action? Certainly felt the same.
Played those to death on hundreds of gigs. Volume on full for that vibration! 

Maybe I need a new Yamaha at some point!