OT: Journey $ Drama, Cain vs Schon

[Stokely]

Cain playing Journey songs at political rallies for one party is making Journey political where they'd otherwise not be.   It goes beyond just having a personal political opinion that you put aside to play your show.   But that's just the way I look at it, which only matters if I was in that situation. 

I've certainly been in some situations that could have gone south over the years...just looking at bumper stickers on vehicles at the recent party we played told me I was not around many like-minded people...but fortunately as usual, politics didn't arise and music was the focus for everyone.
 

[hurricane hugo]

5 hours ago, Bill H. said:

Journey has hired a new manager to take over the former co-managing duties of Cain and Shon:

 

https://www.billboard.com/pro/journey-new-manager-mike-kobayashi/

 

According to the article, gross from last year's tour was $39.9 million 🤯 When money's that serious, they'll continue to play together onstage - even if they're not on speaking terms. Been in bands that have done this... and for far less money. Kobayashi has his work cut out for him though. 

 

 

 

Yeah, but Kobayashi works for Keyser Soze; he'll straighten them out.

[Mark Schmieder]

Interesting. The only musical partnership that I was aware had suffered irreparable damage due to political differences is that between the former lead singer of The Smiths and guitarist par excellence (and an all-around great guy) Johnny Marr. And even that seems more about attitude and ego (on the singer's part) than specific differences of opinion.

 

I can't really talk about the Journey thing though, as I have second-hand relations with several members through a former job and other things in my life. It's just sad to watch it happening.

[TommyS]

Geeze I wish these guys would just go away........sick and tired of them.......

[analogika]

18 hours ago, Anderton said:

And if any of us were invited to a barbeque, last time I checked, spare ribs don't have a political affiliation

„Carbon footprint“. 😋

[analogika]

12 hours ago, hurricane hugo said:

Yeah, but Kobayashi works for Keyser Soze; he'll straighten them out.

but Keyser Soze was played by Kevin Spacey, and you really don’t wanna go there…

[Bill H.]

Kobayashi represents Def Leppard, and since Journey did a highly successful tour with those guys a few years ago I'm assuming that's how they got to know each other. 

 

Last year Journey grossed over $925,000 per performance. I'm just amazed. As mentioned in the Billboard article, they remain a top tier touring act in spite of not having a new hit in decades. 

 

But to keep that money flowing they've got to stop hitting each other with lawsuits. Although I'm not in agreement politically, I'm not sure a sing-a-long at a private event at Mar-A-Lago warrants a cease and desist. Hell we wouldn't have even known about it if Neil hadn't filed that suit. And with impartial management in place, he should be able to look over the books - even if he did rack up over a million dollars in personal expenses on the company credit card. 

[o0Ampy0o]

Some, a lot these days, confuse politics with religion. Their religion is politics or their politics are religious to them. This has nothing to do with the political positioning The Church has had in history for instance during the period of The Roman Empire. It is personal self-righteousness about anything personal and if one side wasn't getting personal another makes it personal.

[RABid]

When I first saw this I automatically assumed Schon's side because he was an original member and I liked him in both Santana and Journey. After reading up on it, wow. This is someone that should never release a statement without it going through a publicist. And he probably should not buy anything without going through a financial advisor. The entire episode speaks of the growing problem in America. More and more people think the other party is the enemy. JMHO, if you can not tolerate someone who is different, you are the enemy. 

[Joe Muscara]

Isn't Kobayashi the no-win scenario?  

 

[Spider76]

I really have no idea about this stuff, actually I'm always surprised that Journey were (and still are) SO big on the other side of the pond, here in EU you'd have to search really hard to find someone who's heard of them.

 

Anyway, reading this topic there's something that I find irresistibly amusing: are we really surprised that someone name CAIN is involved in a fratricidal feud?

😂

[David Emm]

On 12/23/2022 at 10:30 AM, Stokely said:

But whatever, I don't really care either way what big stars get up to, I have my own dramas!

 

To the Nth degree.

I also resent the expectation that I have to tacitly agree with a thing like, say, transphobia to enjoy the work of established artists. I don't think its asking to restrict your freedom of speech if I just wanted to enjoy your art without having it clouded by inflammatory schmutz. If I want to go there, I'll just throw frogs at my TV when any cable news wonk is doing political commentary, thanks. Since when did farting in public for both volume and stench become such a spectator sport? 🤨

 

Well, on "Jackass," sure, but that's voluntary viewing on my part. Sorry.  

[TommyRude]

IF... milestones mean anything to Schon, 2023 would be the 50th anniversary of Journey.  Maybe they'll hold it together for that reason.

[Stokely]

17 hours ago, David Emm said:

 

To the Nth degree.

I also resent the expectation that I have to tacitly agree with a thing like, say, transphobia to enjoy the work of established artists. I don't think its asking to restrict your freedom of speech if I just wanted to enjoy your art without having it clouded by inflammatory schmutz. If I want to go there, I'll just throw frogs at my TV when any cable news wonk is doing political commentary, thanks. Since when did farting in public for both volume and stench become such a spectator sport? 🤨

 

Well, on "Jackass," sure, but that's voluntary viewing on my part. Sorry.  

Social media is the catalyst. Everyone has the ability and willingness to shart their Id out for the world to see, and half the time they delete the post realizing how bad it looks but...too late.  The internet remembers.

I miss some things about Facebook (never did Twitter) but in the end decided it was bad for me and bad for all of us, so I'm not going to contribute to its success.

I have no hesitation in engaging with what some call "cancel culture" when it comes to giving money to people with repugnant (or even dangerous, IMO, views).  But I also don't try to look too hard into the personal views of authors and creative types--so if I hear about their views, it's because they are making them very public.   My list of "no money for you" isn't long but includes a few companies and people on it.  And I doubt they are losing any sleep over my avoidance, heck I'm quite sure those same views bring in people that support them.

[Tom Williams]

On 12/27/2022 at 5:45 PM, Spider76 said:

Anyway, reading this topic there's something that I find irresistibly amusing: are we really surprised that someone name CAIN is involved in a fratricidal feud?

😂

Careful -- they'll get you on the no religion rule....

[Mike Davis]

Quote: reading this topic there's something that I find irresistibly amusing: are we really surprised that someone name CAIN is involved in a fratricidal feud?

😂

Careful -- they'll get you on the no religion rule.... “

 

He should be ABEL to get away with it … hahahahha

[nursers]

Look, I don't know the guys from Journey from Adam, but it appears they're on the Eve of an implosion. Of course, band Revelations like this aren't super surprising.

[Reezekeys]

I remember hearing about Cream's last tour (during their heyday, not the reunion) - separate limos, dressing rooms, hotels, etc. - apparently keeping the machine of the music business running takes precedence over intra-band squabbles. There are lots of mouths to feed - not just the musicians' – and lots of folk that stand to lose lots of money (or the opportunity to make money) when big tours get cancelled. Could I get out on stage with someone I hate? For the money a Journey tour would generate, well, yes! I'm not that proud! I'd also be shaking my head at the audiences, who undoubtedly would know exactly what's going on but decided to plunk their cash down anyway.

[Steve Nathan]

Eagles tours are legendary indications of how people who won't speak to each other will still get on stage and sing together for the money. 

[Anderton]

On 12/23/2022 at 10:52 AM, RABid said:

These are the type of bandmates that make Steve Perry look good. They have all criticized him for being arrogant and controlling, but he had the voice and wrote the songs that made them into a supergroup. He went longer than I would have before putting out a solo album.

 

I've had only one interaction with Steve Perry, I interviewed him once. He was not only an easy interview and a nice guy, but when I asked a technical question about singing he gave me some vocal coaching that helped me out tremendously. He wasn't stingy with the advice either, he must have spent about 20 minutes giving me a one-on-one vocal lesson. Nor did he cut the interview short because of it. He was very generous with his time, and waited for me to signal that I had enough material for the interview.

 

Total professional, friendly, and a gentleman. Based on what's happening with the band now, perhaps he wasn't controlling enough

[Anderton]

On 12/23/2022 at 9:58 AM, GRollins said:

Music is often about politics. Look at all the protest songs about the Vietnam war and racial stuff back in the '60s for starters. How can you separate them without creating a gaping hole of music-we-can't-talk-about? Wouldn't that be a little conspicuous?

 

Some bands are about politics, like the Clash or Rage Against the Machine. They wear their politics on their sleeve and have a target demographic. Other bands are about entertainment, and in that context, I feel politics is neither needed nor wanted.

 

I'm pretty tolerant about letting people think what they want to think. People are complex. They can make great music even if they're questionable human beings. 

 

But more importantly, people I disagree with politically sincerely believe they are doing the right thing. I don't know anyone (at least not personally, thankfully) who says "I believe in this because it's wrong and going to screw people over." Once you understand someone's motivation is to do the right thing, then the issue simply becomes how to figure out what really will produce the desired result, for the benefit of all concerned. Then you instantly have something in common, and can go forward from there.

[RABid]

On 12/23/2022 at 10:58 AM, GRollins said:

Music is often about politics. Look at all the protest songs about the Vietnam war and racial stuff back in the '60s for starters.

I really wish media outlets would spam Steppenwolf's "Monster" before elections. While it starts out talking about injustice and expansion when the country was expanding, it develops into a song about apathy towards government. My favorite line is "And though the past has its share of injustice, kind was the spirit in many a way. But its protectors and friends have been sleeping, now it's a monster and will not obey. ... ... ... People got fat and grew lazy, and now the vote is like a meaningless chore. You know they babble about law, about order. It's all just a ?nickle? for what they've been told. There's a monster on the loose. It's got our heads into a noose. And it just sits there watching."

 

 

[GRollins]

I love that song, but it's problematic in that they get into the middle and just pound that one note over and over and over and over...

 

If they had cut out that part--or at least reduced it--the song would have been a lot stronger.

 

Grey

[Steve Nathan]

7 hours ago, Anderton said:

I've had only one interaction with Steve Perry, I interviewed him once. He was not only an easy interview and a nice guy, but when I asked a technical question about singing he gave me some vocal coaching that helped me out tremendously. He wasn't stingy with the advice either, he must have spent about 20 minutes giving me a one-on-one vocal lesson. Nor did he cut the interview short because of it. He was very generous with his time, and waited for me to signal that I had enough material for the interview.

Ronnie Montrose

Total professional, friendly, and a gentleman. Based on what's happening with the band now, perhaps he wasn't controlling enough

In the late 70s, I went on tour with LeBlanc and Carr, opening for Journey and Ronnie Montrose.  They swapped drummers in the middle of the tour, with Steve Smith leaving Montrose, going to Journey, and Ainsley Dunbar taking the gig with Ronnie.  Every night after the show, we'd head to the hotel and find the lounge and if there was a band, me, Gary Baker, Steve Smith and Steve Perry would convince them to let us play and we'd play Soul and R&B into the night.  Perry loved singing R&B, Knock on Wood, Mustang Sally, Hold On, I'm Coming, etc. He knew all the classics (as did me, Gary and Smith), and he sang the crap out of them. We loved playing with each other after the "Real" show maybe more than we did playing to the throngs in the arenas.  I got to know both Steves well and never once saw anything even remotely like arrogance or controlling.  And I can attest that if the Steve Perry of 1977 came on the scene today, he would never need Autotune. 😉

[Joe Muscara]

Hmmm. Makes me wonder about the Behind the Music episode as well as (if not more so) the infamous Herbie Herbert interview. 

[timwat]

8 hours ago, Anderton said:

Once you understand someone's motivation is to do the right thing, then the issue simply becomes how to figure out what really will produce the desired result, for the benefit of all concerned. Then you instantly have something in common, and can go forward from there.

As an aside, this is the foundation of any attempt at communication and negotiation; whether you're managing a band toward common goals, trying to get a hostage at gunpoint free, purchase a car at a dealership, or trying to get your significant other to agree to a big purchase (a Patek Phillipe, a new home, a Steinway B, whatever).

 

Because generally, everyone makes sense to themselves. 

 

If you choose to be genuinely curious, you may find common ground.  If you choose to be only strategically curious, you may be perceived as being inauthentic and manipulative. If you choose not to be curious at all, well, communication will probably break down quickly.

 

Back on topic, from time to time I've wondered about that infamous Herbie Herbert interview as well. It's been years since I read it, but I remember thinking it was more pissing in someone else's corn flakes than spilling the tea.

 

But it doesn't take much for my own life problems to supersede my interest in the melodrama of privileged pop stars. Hope they get American Express to start mailing duplicate monthly statements.

[stoken6]

9 hours ago, Steve Nathan said:

I can attest that if the Steve Perry of 1977 came on the scene today, he would never need Autotune. 😉

Need to pull this into its own quote to  it sufficiently.

 

I would however add that there are plenty of singers today who don't "need" autotune, but use it because it's the sound of now (sadly). 

 

Cheers, Mike.

[TommyRude]

Here's Neil playing with another keyboardist 🙂

 

 

[analogika]

On 12/29/2022 at 4:37 PM, Dr Nursers said:

Look, I don't know the guys from Journey from Adam, but it appears they're on the Eve of an implosion. Of course, band Revelations like this aren't super surprising.

Let whomever is without flaws roll the first Rock. 

[Bobbo Fett]

On 12/29/2022 at 9:37 AM, Dr Nursers said:

Look, I don't know the guys from Journey from Adam, but it appears they're on the Eve of an implosion. Of course, band Revelations like this aren't super surprising.

I was talking about this just last night with Two Corinthians who walked into a bar I was drinking at....I THINK they were Corinthians anyway....it was just before last call....you know how THAT goes....