Yamaha YC 73 as 1st tier board

[drohm]

11 hours ago, stoken6 said:

Correct, but that's simply using the audio inputs, not the 

which allows you to integrate USB audio. 

 

Regards, Mike.

I'm assuming the audio inputs are routed through the A2D-D2A (i.e., audio interface), maybe not...regardless, I can tell you are determined to make issue with my statement. It really does not matter since my original point is that it is convenient for a dual keyboard rig. My other keyboards do not have that feature. And now I will stop contributing to this forum for another year while you argue with someone else. Goodbye.

[Michael Wright]

Thank you everyone, for the benefit of your experience and your opinions.  I am confident now, that this is a good way to go.  I placed an order today, and hope it arrives before long!  I did say hope.   Some setup options I had not thought of are great.  Again Thank you all.  Cheers Mike   

[kenheeter]

Good luck Mike, I think you'll love it. It would be interesting to set it up side by side with my Numa X 73 and just compare sounds/features.

 

[Michael Wright]

5 minutes ago, kenheeter said:

Good luck Mike, I think you'll love it. It would be interesting to set it up side by side with my Numa X 73 and just compare sounds/features.

 

We  could certainly do that Ken! Cheers Mike

[AnotherScott]

13 hours ago, counterpoint said:

For the YC, did you try factory preset 2-1 - One Ear Piano or did you just use the mono out?  It is a bit strange, but the way Yamaha summed it mono was by applying a mono amp effect to it.  To my ears it sounds pretty good to the extent any mono piano patch sounds good

Thanks for the pointer, I'll check that out. I never actually even listened to any of the Live Sets, maybe I should! 

 

13 hours ago, counterpoint said:

While not my first choice, I don't mind playing pianos on the YC 61...

Yeah, I like the YC61 action for pianos better than a lot of other non-hammer actions. 

[Atlantic Rich]

Sincere thank you to the regular posters on the board.  I've been reading posts for the past six months, and bought two keyboards based mainly on comments here.

 

I got a YC73 last week, and I'm very happy with it.  One nagging issue though - the pianos sustain a long time.  Previously I was using a Casio PX, and could just hold the sustain pedal down, and the sound would decay naturally.  The YC pianos generally sustain 10+ seconds (the CFX over 15 sec), so that it quickly gets a bit muddy.  Of course I can regularly take my foot off the FC3A pedal, or just press it slightly (but the sweet spot seems very narrow).  I'd prefer another solution if possible - maybe there's a setting that I'm missing, or a different pedal to use.

 

I'd be interested in feedback here.  Do you think Yamaha pianos sustain too long?  If so, do you have any advice on a setting or another pedal, etc?  Thanks.

[Stokely]

I'm not a "real" pianist like many here, but that sounds more like a real piano than the Casio's behavior.  I suspect you'll have to work on the sustain technique    (and I'm not pointing  fingers, or toes, I don't have great technique myself.)

[counterpoint]

1 hour ago, Atlantic Rich said:

I got a YC73 last week, and I'm very happy with it.  One nagging issue though - the pianos sustain a long time. 

 

Love the YC but here's what bothers me about the sustain.  If you play a note/chord, press the sustain, release the note/chord then release and reengage the sustain, you'll find the release of the sustain doesn't totally kill the note/chord like it would on a real piano.  If you release and reengage the sustain several times, you will hear it going through its long sustain process off and on.  This bothers me in particular playing the EP's.  If you're playing a legato chord progression lifting the sustain pedal between chord changes but then reengaging it for the next chord, it gets muddy as the previous chord is still somewhat present underneath it.  Not sure I'm describing this well...maybe someone else has noticed this.  This goes beyond the pianos and applies to all of the sampled instruments on the YC that have a sustain component...but not the FM-based sounds.

[AnotherScott]

3 hours ago, Atlantic Rich said:

One nagging issue though - the pianos sustain a long time.  Previously I was using a Casio PX, and could just hold the sustain pedal down, and the sound would decay naturally.  The YC pianos generally sustain 10+ seconds (the CFX over 15 sec), so that it quickly gets a bit muddy.  Of course I can regularly take my foot off the FC3A pedal, or just press it slightly (but the sweet spot seems very narrow).  I'd prefer another solution if possible - maybe there's a setting that I'm missing, or a different pedal to use.

 

I'd be interested in feedback here.  Do you think Yamaha pianos sustain too long?  If so, do you have any advice on a setting or another pedal, etc?  Thanks.

 

Real piano has a lot of sustain time. The number of seconds varies, the low notes take longer to decay than the high notes. The Yamaha is presumably coming closer to the real thing than the Casio.

 

2 hours ago, counterpoint said:

 

Love the YC but here's what bothers me about the sustain.  If you play a note/chord, press the sustain, release the note/chord then release and reengage the sustain, you'll find the release of the sustain doesn't totally kill the note/chord like it would on a real piano.  If you release and reengage the sustain several times, you will hear it going through its long sustain process off and on.  This bothers me in particular playing the EP's.  If you're playing a legato chord progression lifting the sustain pedal between chord changes but then reengaging it for the next chord, it gets muddy as the previous chord is still somewhat present underneath it.  Not sure I'm describing this well...maybe someone else has noticed this.  This goes beyond the pianos and applies to all of the sampled instruments on the YC that have a sustain component...but not the FM-based sounds.

 

This, again, duplicates the way a real piano works, digitals started adding this "half pedaling" to get closer to how a real piano behaves. You can either lift the pedal higher before pressing it down again, or you can turn this half-pedaling feature off. In the Menu section, change Sustain Pedal type from "FC3A (HalfOn)" to "FC3A (HalfOff)" - and btw, this feature is also why Atlantic Rich's use of "just press it slightly" works. It won't work that way if this function is turned off.

 

And yes, I see in the MODX manual, that half-pedaling is available in the AWM2 engine, but not in the FM-X engine, so that explains why you wouldn't have it in FM sounds, Yamaha doesn't have that capability in their FM sound engine, amplitude envelopes are handled differently in FM.

[CyberGene]

I lived long enough to see someone complaining about long piano sustain (using a Casio digital piano as a reference) and complaining about presence of re-pedaling 😲

[CEB]

It should be killer. A lot better than the KS-32 I used back when it was new.   The KS-32 got to where it crippled my wrist so I gave it away for a 5 watt guitar amp.  That form factor is great.

[counterpoint]

1 hour ago, AnotherScott said:

 

 

This, again, duplicates the way a real piano works, digitals started adding this "half pedaling" to get closer to how a real piano behaves. You can either lift the pedal higher before pressing it down again, or you can turn this half-pedaling feature off. In the Menu section, change Sustain Pedal type from "FC3A (HalfOn)" to "FC3A (HalfOff)" - and btw, this feature is also why Atlantic Rich's use of "just press it slightly" works. It won't work that way if this function is turned off.

 

 

Just rechecked it.  Not sure it's a half pedaling issue as it does what I am saying regardless of whether half pedaling is on or off.  Please check it out when you get a chance.  Press down a key, press down the sustain, take you finger off the key and then fully release then reapply the sustain pedal.

[CyberGene]

^ This is called re-pedaling. Half-pedaling is somehow related but not exactly. On a real piano the dampers are not instantaneous, they can’t stop the string vibration immediately, especially in the bass region. Which is why releasing the pedal while the strings are producing loud sound and then quickly pressing it again (hence lifting the dampers off the string) would have the effect of only slightly dampening the sound without stopping it fully, which naturally is dependent on your timing. If you’re quick enough, you can repeatedly press and release the pedal multiple time until the sound is dampened. Again, that’s called re-pedaling and I’ve personally complained about the lack of it in many sampled piano libraries on the computer. Digital pianos support it almost universally. It’s the first time I see someone not liking it though. In combination with half-pedaling it helps in shaping your sustain and phrasing, especially in classical romantic repertoire and lyrical legato-driven pieces. 

[AnotherScott]

32 minutes ago, counterpoint said:

Just rechecked it.  Not sure it's a half pedaling issue and it does what I am saying regardless of whether half pedaling is on or off.  Please check it out when you get a chance.  Press down a key, press down the sustain, take you finger off the key and then fully release then reapply the sustain pedal.

Interesting... and your pedal is a Yamaha FC3A? I'll need to try that when I get a chance.

 

20 minutes ago, CyberGene said:

^ This is called re-pedaling. Half-pedaling is somehow related but not exactly.

True, re-pedaling doesn't actually require that the keyboard support half/partial/continuous pedaling, if you're trying to duplicate the effect of re-pedal with the pedal completely lifted up between depressions. But typically, on a real piano, do people usually lift the pedal all the way up before re-pedaling? If not, then you still can't do that on a digital that lacks half/partial/continuous damper pedal function. 

[CyberGene]

7 minutes ago, AnotherScott said:

But typically, on a real piano, do people usually lift the pedal all the way up before re-pedaling? If not, then you still can't do that on a digital that lacks half/partial/continuous damper pedal function. 

I believe most players would intuitively learn where the pedal region is and would work there, most probably not lifting or pressing the pedal fully, often staying within the half-pedal region. At least I do that, it’s an aural feedback that’s almost unconscious/internalized IMO. 

[AUSSIEKEYS]

7 hours ago, Atlantic Rich said:

 

I got a YC73 last week, and I'm very happy with it.  One nagging issue though - the pianos sustain a long time.  Previously I was using a Casio PX, and could just hold the sustain pedal down, and the sound would decay naturally.

 

Rich.  Thats fantastic. You want that trust me. Especially if gigging as any sustain gets lost in the band sound. The longer the better to be heard thru the cacophony of band.

 

I love my Casio Privia PX330 generally but for the crap sustain. I have to constantly press the pedal otherwise it sounds abrupt. Its totally lost in a band situation.

 

Infact i found most keyboards lack enough natural sustain length on acoustic piano yet when they implement an electric piano sound it always has enough sustain.

 

Sometimes id layer an acoustic with an electric just to get more sustain or use electric instead of acoustic in a band situation so there is sustain to be heard. Id rather err towards sustained electric piano then a dull acoustic sound. The px330 casios sustain is barely acceptable when playing solo let alone in a band. (Later PX5s etc id hope remedied that)

 

My question to the sustain trust:

 

Why in the past could manufacturers always get decent sustain on electric pianos but never on acoustic pianos.

[kenheeter]

Mike, any time you're headed this way you can bring your YC73 and we can compare over coffee!  Cheers, Ken

[AnotherScott]

45 minutes ago, AUSSIEKEYS said:

Why in the past could manufacturers always get decent sustain on electric pianos but never on acoustic pianos.

 

I suspect it's because the piano timbre is more complex, i.e. in the way it changes over time, make it harder to loop into a natural sounding decay. 

[Michael Wright]

5 hours ago, kenheeter said:

Mike, any time you're headed this way you can bring your YC73 and we can compare over coffee!  Cheers, Ken

Sounds great!  Let's make a point of it!  I will let you know when I get it!  Mike

[TWB121234]

Just a suggestion, you might wish to check your FC3A pedal and make sure it is sending zero as a midi message when it is in the up position. I’ve had two FC3A pedals that did not return a value of zero with foot off the pedal, and it did mess with piano patches. Good luck.

 

[Michael Wright]

I am beginning to think this instrument is unobaitium!  I switched to the 88, sacrificing the weight/size,  for the action and the real estate!  Hoping soon! 

Waiting this long sure takes the fun out of a new  purchase.  I may retire totally before I get it.  I can certainly use the money. 

[Paul Woodward]

I have considered a CP73 as a bottom board but I believe it uses the same balanced action as the YC73. Is it as bad as many reviews have said? It’s a shame there isn’t a 73 fully weighted version like Korg did with the Grandstage (and I believe the did with the Kronos).

[Dockeys]

I have the cp73. Same action afaik as yc73. Not sure about the bad reviews tho? I did read some comments about the black keys but I don’t notice anything. I think it’s a pretty nice action. Streets ahead of the GHS in the MODX series. Feels less substantial than say the S90Es and subsequent Motif 8/Es8/xs8. Board is letdown by the small number of bread and butter voices. Organs are terrible. Combined with an iPad and I guess you solve that issue. 

[AnotherScott]

1 hour ago, Paul Woodward said:

I have considered a CP73 as a bottom board but I believe it uses the same balanced action as the YC73. Is it as bad as many reviews have said? It’s a shame there isn’t a 73 fully weighted version like Korg did with the Grandstage (and I believe the did with the Kronos).

CP73 and YC73 use the same action, but they are true ("fully") weighted actions (that is, they have hammer mechanisms, whereas semi-weighted actions do not).

[pinkfloydcramer]

On 11/11/2022 at 9:49 AM, 1203 said:

I run my YC 73 in mono and i use only right output, not „left mono“ output. Sounds good with the CFX sample, at least to my ears. Bandmates and audience never complained too… 😉

I’ve recently started doing that, never been happier. For full band gigs I get a straightforward piano sound not junked up with the inevitable phasing you get from summing stereo to mono. I have a Motion Sound amp, great amp, but I only use it for solo/duo gigs or playing at home.

[Outkaster]

I get a lot of compliments on the YC88 sounds from sound guys as well as musicians.

[Aeron]

I have a yc73 and do not like the piano. I mainly use at home though. I am disappointed. Organ and other sounds pretty good though. I would have thought Yamaha old have a better piano considering this is their flagship. I really want to like the piano but don’t. 

[Paul Woodward]

The YC pianos are based on those in the CP88 which is the current flagship piano, so maybe it’s the connect with the lighter keybed or Yamaha isn’t the piano brand for you?

Have to say I was always a Yamaha piano owner, but after getting the Korg Grandstage, I haven’t been able to go back. My YC61 was used as a second board and that’s gone now.

[CyberGene]

The CP/YC pianos are stage pianos, not home pianos. It may sound like a contradiction but the home pianos are actually better than stage pianos in terms of piano realism and emulations. For instance, on the CP88 there is only a "sympathetic resonance" effect which is pathetic and sounds more like a reverb. Compare that to the P-line or the Clavinova line where you have a pretty advanced resonance modeling with a complete set of various piano-specific effects such as aliquot-resonances, open string  resonance (which is not the same as damper pedal resonance), etc. A Yamaha P515 or P525 feels and sounds better than the CP88 if you need a realistic acoustic piano emulation for demanding stuff like classical music.

 

I wouldn't purchase a CP/YC for home. Those are for stages, for pop/rock music, etc.