Rave: Cory Henry on Moog with Snarky Puppy and Metropole Orkest

[Tusker]

I haven't seen us discuss this. All the solos are great (flugelhorn, bass, moog, piano) in their own right.

 

Cory Henry's moog solo ( at 8 minutes ) can be appreciated as a remarkable solo, but you might want to stick around till the 13 minute at the end of the piano solo, because two moogs (Cory now joined by Justin Stanton) help the piano to a muted conclusion. It's become a three person keyboard ensemble! Anybody else using synths in this way?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Al Coda]

awesome !!!

 

thx a lot

 

 

A.C.

[Dave Bryce]

The Curtain is one of my favorite SP pieces, and certainly my fave on Sylva. 🥰

 

dB

[synthdogg]

I love that entire Sylva album, and the Curtain is my favorite for sure. I'm so glad you mentioned the Moog "ensemble" towards the end of the piece, I absolutely love what they did with that and it's been an inspiration in my own music creation too. If you haven't heard SP with Laura Mvula performing "Sing to the Moon", check it out for sure. They use a similar approach in the choruses, adding a Moog bass to the mix. Definitely check out the FOUR (!!!) keyboard solos in the middle of the performance. They're all great, and with all the synth work happening, it's nice to see Cory Henry taking the piano solo for once and doing such a beautiful job with it.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0Ua9xZP6Lw

[jazzpiano88]

Each of the individual sections are great, but I don't feel they connect in any way with each other.   It's kind of jarring to follow Cory's funky deep-vibrato based Moog solo with a classical style piano solo.  The hip hop orchestral section I think I've heard before in another SP piece.   And the ending feels like the composer just ran out of ideas and had to wrap it up with a whimper.   Maybe if I heard it a few more times I could make more sense out of the piece as a whole.  Or if someone could explain it for me, I'd love to hear it.

[ProfD]

Awesome display of music composition and musicianship from beginning to end. 

 

Snarky Puppy bandleader Michael League is a genius for assembling an ensemble of badass musicians. 😎

[Sean M. H.]

6 hours ago, Tusker said:

 at the end of the piano solo, because two moogs (Cory now joined by Justin Stanton) help the piano to a muted conclusion. It's become a three person keyboard ensemble! Anybody else using synths in this way?

 

 

Not exactly apples to apples, but that type of sound really reminds me of the old Stevie Wonder stuff from the early-to-mid 70s...specifically songs like "Superwoman" and "They Won't Go When I Go"...at that time--largely because of the technology limitations of the day I'd assume--he'd often use multiple tracks of monophonic synths in tandem to create a harmonic bed...essentially counterpoint I guess you'd call it.  It's one of my favorite parts of his music, and probably my favorite way to use synths (as opposed to synth bass or lead synth).  I hear the style replicated by Cory in some of his solo/Funk Apostles music...and also guys like PJ Morton (unsurprisingly, both those guys have repeatedly expressed how big an influence Stevie was)...Again, not apples to apples though--different genres, instrumental vs vocal arrangement, etc...but it gives a similar vibe.

[Theo Verelst]

I listened to the whole piece, of course I know that Dutch orchestra (North Sea Jazz) which is ok. Apart from the drummer, no one attempts to make an A grade mix with digital preparations, and to be honest the whole thing is so bleak, weakly timed and harmonically little challenging, I don't think it would matter. Comparisons with Wonder are ridiculous.

 

T

[Sean M. H.]

2 hours ago, Theo Verelst said:

 Comparisons with Wonder are ridiculous.

 

🙄 Thought this would be obvious...but I wasn't comparing musicianship, or arrangement or anything else, other than a specific use of synthesizers that was pointed out...YMMV

[MathOfInsects]

Cory Henry plays lots of Stevie. He's not uncomfortable making that comparison--nor, it seems, worried that someone on a nerd board might find it ridiculous.

That was lovely. I liked the tastiness of the keyboard trio. 

 

My general gripe against the amazing Snarky Puppy is that their songs can be sort of formless. Like harmony in search of a melody. That's an asset when they're a means of showing off their mastery, but I'm noticing in this clip that maybe it's a drawback when they are orchestrated for chamber ensemble. Not really a gripe--there are awesome sounds throughout. Just that it hit me more in this format.

Anyway, thanks for posting. Cool find.

[ProfD]

7 minutes ago, MaskOfInsects said:

My general grip against the amazing Snarky Puppy is that their songs can be sort of formless. Like harmony in search of a melody.

That is definitely the downside of a collective of talented musicians.  Sometimes, melody gets pushed aside in favor of taking turns showcasing chops.😎

[NewImprov]

On 10/17/2022 at 11:21 AM, Tusker said:

I haven't seen us discuss this. All the solos are great (flugelhorn, bass, moog, piano) in their own right.

 

Cory Henry's moog solo ( at 8 minutes ) can be appreciated as a remarkable solo, but you might want to stick around till the 13 minute at the end of the piano solo, because two moogs (Cory now joined by Justin Stanton) help the piano to a muted conclusion. It's become a three person keyboard ensemble! Anybody else using synths in this way?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Great solo! I remember when this I came out, I stole the thing where Henry tunes the 2nd oscillator on the Mini up by a fifth in the middle of the solo. I'd never really trusted myself to land in tune, but when I tried it live, it worked surprisingly well.

[lsj]

would love to see them in person

[Theo Verelst]

23 hours ago, MaskOfInsects said:

Cory Henry plays lots of Stevie. He's not uncomfortable making that comparison ...

 

You'd have to "prove" that to me, I don't know what you're going on about comparing such a prolific, interesting player like Wonder with a noodling mouse like this.

[EscapeRocks]

Cory Henry a "Noodling Mouse"?

 

Okay...... 🙄

[MathOfInsects]

48 minutes ago, Theo Verelst said:

 

You'd have to "prove" that to me, I don't know what you're going on about comparing such a prolific, interesting player like Wonder with a noodling mouse like this.

Quoted for general Theo-ness.

[Adan]

On 10/18/2022 at 9:20 AM, MaskOfInsects said:

Cory Henry plays lots of Stevie. He's not uncomfortable making that comparison--nor, it seems, worried that someone on a nerd board might find it ridiculous.

That was lovely. I liked the tastiness of the keyboard trio. 

 

My general gripe against the amazing Snarky Puppy is that their songs can be sort of formless. Like harmony in search of a melody. That's an asset when they're a means of showing off their mastery, but I'm noticing in this clip that maybe it's a drawback when they are orchestrated for chamber ensemble. Not really a gripe--there are awesome sounds throughout. Just that it hit me more in this format.

Anyway, thanks for posting. Cool find.

Thou shalt not criticize The Pup!  Just put your headphones back on and shake your head side to side in amazement.

 

Seriously, it is amazing.  Orchestrated music is not my cup of tea, but I can see how SP is elevating the form.

[Theo Verelst]

Not my opinion, I've heard that orchestra in better context.

[MathOfInsects]

3 hours ago, Adan said:

Thou shalt not criticize The Pup!  Just put your headphones back on and shake your head side to side in amazement.

 

Seriously, it is amazing.  Orchestrated music is not my cup of tea, but I can see how SP is elevating the form.

The least talented member of that band/collective--is there one?--is more talented than I am by a factor of infinity to one. Every song grooves and does cool stuff and features brain-melting solos.

But also, really, they're all just grooves to solo over. Mega-cool grooves, for sure, with lots of cool musician-choices along the way. But if you had to describe one of their songs to someone, you'd almost certainly describe it by some feature of the groove--"That's the one in 7," or "That's the one the bass and keys do that crazy lick in," etc. You would almost certainly not sing it, or even be able to--even the second it was over.

It's not really a knock, since holy crud are they good at what they do. But I just noticed, seeing that video, that orchestrating their songs sort of magnifies this aspect, instead of going the opposite way.

I loved the timbres they created. It just hit me as sort of atmospheric, and I don't quite mean that in a good way. If that makes sense. 

[Tusker]

Since the topic of "good writing" came up, I went back through The Curtain a few of times to identify themes, motifs, development, form. After all, that's what classical writing told us was vital once you get past five minutes right? Your piece of music sinks or swims with good form. 

 

Well, I found themes, motifs, development and form. But also this other stuff. Grungy little bits that just sneak in for no apparent reason at all. It's like a deliciously dirty gumbo rather than a clear broth. The closest musical comparison I can come up with is the Jazz Fusion age of the 1970s and 1980s. Less structured than Prog rock. More solos over repetitive patterns. Nice if your solo can echo one of the motifs (several do). No worries if it doesn't. Tearing the fabric of time because who needs linear time when we can own the moment?

 

If you are looking for signposting (I was) it's difficult. And I agree the larger orchestra with it's many colors makes it's harder to see the signposting. The most emotional moment for me, is the piano elegy after the orchestra and synth climax. It's what everything seems to be about. A closing of a curtain.

 

Hmm, I'll have some more gumbo please. Thanks for the enlightening comments everyone. 👍

[Al Quinn]

I realize music, like all art, is subjective but I never thought I’d hear Cory Henry described as a “noodling mouse.”
 

Really? Wow! I suppose that’s the meaning of YMMV 😎

[MathOfInsects]

[Reezekeys]

4 hours ago, Tusker said:

Well, I found themes, motifs, development and form. But also this other stuff.

 

You mean the "jazz" right? 🙂 

 

SP happens to be jazz band. Not swingy, Dave Brubeck or bebop, but jazz nonetheless. The basis of jazz is improvisation, and to many musicians and most of the public, jazz improvisation = noise (that's my take, others may or may not share that view of how jazz is perceived!).

 

What I heard in that youtube was very typical in terms of how jazz improvs are fit into more arranged pieces. These songs are typically designed to be vehicles for improvisation - so that's what you're gonna get. Arranged sections, punctuated by solos over a vamp, or a chord progression, or maybe just completely free. Somehow, in this thread, that's turned into a negative; at least that's the impression I'm getting. Well, it's a feature not a bug! Of course nobody has to like this or any other piece of music for that matter, but an informed opinion holds more weight for me than an uninformed opinion.

 

Maybe some folks should just listen to the music instead of trying to analyse it.

[Tusker]

1 hour ago, Reezekeys said:

 

You mean the "jazz" right? 🙂 

 

 

Some of the gumbo is jazz, some of it is blues, some of it is hip hop, some of it is funk and some of it is the burnt bits that I am always trying to reach with a spoon my brother. 😀

[AROIOS]

On 10/17/2022 at 2:59 PM, JazzPiano88 said:

Each of the individual sections are great, but I don't feel they connect in any way with each other.   It's kind of jarring to follow Cory's funky deep-vibrato based Moog solo with a classical style piano solo.  The hip hop orchestral section I think I've heard before in another SP piece.   And the ending feels like the composer just ran out of ideas and had to wrap it up with a whimper.   Maybe if I heard it a few more times I could make more sense out of the piece as a whole.  Or if someone could explain it for me, I'd love to hear it.

Same here, the whole thing sounds and feels like going through a typical 90s rompler's internal demos. It's an example of "playing a lot but saying very little", which is typical of many Fusion wankery.

[Theo Verelst]

An orchestra could play a classical piece, a pop song, take part in a funky jam (70's style), or as a matter of principle even play a blues. However, a rave to me sounds a little far-fetched. Improvisation for a "normal" orchestra might also be a little much to ask.

 

T

[marczellm]

14 hours ago, MaskOfInsects said:

if you had to describe one of their songs to someone, you'd almost certainly describe it by some feature of the groove--"That's the one in 7," or "That's the one the bass and keys do that crazy lick in," etc. You would almost certainly not sing it, or even be able to--even the second it was over.

Maybe except Thing of Gold.

[CyberGene]

SP were the guest of an open air jazz fest two months ago, held annually in the nearby park to my home, free admission. Since that’s Bulgaria, they didn’t send their top guns. As I described in another thread, I managed to stay through two numbers and left. It was just too boring and dull. Those “pieces” are just a frame for improvisation and are not something really interesting in itself. Without top improvisers it becomes a mundane experience. 

[Adan]

I totally get why there's so many SP fans.  And I check out almost every SP thread because there's always something cool inside -- usually a inspiring solo or two.  But if jazz succeeds by combining the familiar and the unfamiliar, then the problem with SP is that it always seems unfamiliar.  I don't find a consistent character (in any sense of that word) in it. 

 

The part of MOI's assessment that resonates most with me is the lack of memorable melodies or themes.  To me, that's the familiarity component that makes "jazz" possible.  But that theory doesn't fully explain it, because I can listen to Bitches Brew a thousand times despite a complete absence of themes and melodies.  So I'd need another theory to explain why my enthusiasm for BB dwarfs my interest in SP.

 

But to SP fans I say more power to you.  Music appreciation is not a zero sum game.  My not liking something doesn't detract from anyone else's liking it, and visa versa.  Too many internet discussions about music devolve into a sort of team sports rivalry, and I certainly don't intend this to go there.

 

That said . . . GO MILES!

[Reezekeys]

I don't approach music listening with a personal list of "must includes" that have to all be ticked off in order for me to "pronounce it worthy." Of course some things I react to more than others; it's all based on my own personal experiences listening and playing this music over many years. SP ticks plenty of my boxes anyway but that's besides the point.

 

I guess SP and every other jazz or jazz-influenced band suck if Bitches Brew and A Love Supreme are one's personal benchmarks! That's not my approach.