The future in in ear ?

[bjosko]

I just stumbled over this review on YouTube about the latest Apple IPods.

 I dont need them, but it was something interesting at the 5:24 mark where he explained a bit about how the noise canceling worked together with transient mood ( lots off unknown words here for me, so excuse my spelling).

The interesting part was that it passed sound through, but leveled it down to an acceptable level.

Perhaps it already exist in in ear monitoring ? Otherwise it might be a clever soloution too avoid feeling to isolated when using In Ear in a band situation?

 

 

[Docbop]

The Verge tested and said Transparency Mode was doing it thing.   

 

 

If you'd like are real funny video hardcore Apple fanboy  Luke Miani did a video yesterday testing Apple crash detection in new iPhone and Apple Watch Ultra and destroy a few old cars in the process.   The crash detection never once worked even the fanboy had to laugh.    

 

[Stokely]

I have bose bluetooth earbuds (got as a gift, I'm not normally a Bose fan in general) and it's pretty amazing how the noise cancellation works.  

I'm actually hoping our bandleader gets an electric drum set (and that our main drummer is willing to play it)...I might actually go back to a low-volume wedge monitor or two if I didn't have to set up less than 10 feet from acoustic cymbals.   Having an e-kit would do wonders for all of our lower volume corporate gigs we have been stepping up to.

[Reezekeys]

There are in-ears that have microphones in them which allow you to mix in "outside" sound. Also, in-ears with small holes that passively do the same thing. I'm pretty sure they're more expensive than any Airpods.

 

The idea of custom DSP chips like Apple's that can selectively tame certain sounds is intriguing and one that I think hearing aid manufacturers are onto as well. For us musicians, either there are companies out there doing it that I don't know about (easily possible!), or there is some technological challenge to making this work for us - latency perhaps? I might be wrong but I believe even a few tenths of a millisecond can introduce phasing weirdness since you're also hearing through bone conduction. Anyone with knowledge of actual facts rather than my conjecture want to help here? 🙂 

[Outkaster]

I hope not

[DJkeys]

Westone has made ambient IEMs for a while, at least three different models. Their lowest priced model, AM10 is about the same price as the Airpod Pro 2. For stage use, I would choose the Westone personally.

 

-dj

[EscapeRocks]

We use a couple or 3 'ambience' mics to feed the desired amount of crowd noise/ambience into our individual ear mixes.  That way we stay sealed up and can achieve the perfect balance.

 

I find that for me, personally, I dial in very little of that channel. Very little. I use it mostly just to hear the audience a bit better than the natural bleed from the vocal mics and drum mics.

 

My ear mix usually just has

A little kick drum

A little snare drum

and mostly hi-hat from the drummer. (timing)

A little bass, since

Guitar

All 5 vox at various levels

My keys

A touch of ambient mics channel.

 

 

 

[Reezekeys]

I'm used to the sealed in sound of in-ears. "Used to", definitely not "happy with." I'll never consider it preferable to hearing things live - for me it's a very necessary evil to keep from going deaf faster than I already am.

 

With my current wired in-ears, I used to feed in stage ambience using a small Tascam audio recorder's stereo mics through a MOTU MicroBook audio interface, which has a built-in DSP mixer with efx. I could control it from my keyboard as I played. It sounded good on paper but the mics weren't that great, and figuring out the best placement for the recorder was a chore - I coudn't have it at the front of the stage with a wire snaking back to my keys rig. Not to mention I ditched the MOTU after it disconnected during a show.

 

The USA just made news with the FDA approving OTC hearing aids - no prescription needed and costs that look to be significantly less than ENT- prescribed models. I'm hopeful and optimistic that someone will copy Apple's lead and incorporate custom DSP chips whose software can be custom-tailored to an individual, then in real time analyze and process audio to make for a quality live-sounding musical experience with the harmful elements lessened or eliminated.

[dbk]

If you need IEM stage ambience check out the Sensaphonics/ASI Audio 3DME Gen2 IEM system.

System is based upon internal mics. Works pretty good in my application.

I have to keep levels down for my damaged hearing. Stage volume and wedges did their damage over the years.

Having the ability to add some stage to my keyboard mix is very nice, though sometimes I run out of mic attenutation and end up turning the internal mics off. Still, I can hear enough stage mix through the silicone to feel the groove.

 

Looks like they did a few improvements in a Gen2 model.

 

https://www.sensaphonics.com/products/3dme-bt-gen2-music-enhancement-iem-system

https://asiaudio.com/products/universal-dual-driver

 

I would like to try the apple/bose active noise canceling stuff for everyday activities

 

Dave

[cphollis]

.. and don't forget bluetooth latency, which has historically rendered earbuds unusable for live music, but this may have improved?

[Tusker]

My airpods pro (gen 1) while brilliant in every other respect have too much bluetooth latency to be serviceable in a live gig. Utterly brilliant as a lifestyle and studio monitoring (for an additional perspective) and music listening solution though. The spacial audio aspect is fantastic when the music is encoded correctly. 👍👍

[bjosko]

I have to add, it was not because I wanted to try the A iPods, it was the concept they used to reduce the sound pressure, but still let it in at a more safe level that was interesting, combined with your own mix inside the phones. 
I have as well been thinking of a solution with a condenser microphone somewhere on the stage that could be blended with my own mix. Challenge is that I would need a more complex mixer for monitoring. 
I invested in a 24 ch Presonus mixer with that idea, but some in my band refuse to use it. 
 

Last time we discussed In Ear, someone mentioned the Westone, but they are crazy expensive over here, and those I found seemed to be wireless Bluetooth connected. 

[Reezekeys]

3 minutes ago, bjosko said:

I invested in a 24 ch Presonus mixer with that idea, but some in my band refuse to use it.

 

A bass player friend of mine brings a complete, independent in-ears rig for himself to every gig. The heart of it is a small mixer - one of those tabletop guys. He'll go around to every band member and ask if he can either get a line from them, or put a mic in front of their monitor (yes, he brings a few mics for this purpose!). IOW, he doesn't depend on any band's PA/monitor system (or lack of one) - he's 100% self-contained. I've never seen anyone else do it like this.

[eric]

I'm pretty happy with my IEM experience that has been essentially the same now since 2011. I use custom molded Ultimate Ears UE7 with a Shure PSM900 wireless setup, getting a separate stereo feed from my keyboard rig and then either mono or stereo feed of the band. I was originally worried about ambient sound and it hasn't been a big deal. We don't specifically run any separate microphones just for ambient - the vocal mics and drummer overhead mic does enough to make it work just fine.

 

I am similar to EscapeRocks in terms of what I like in my IEM mix...

- Kick

- Snare

- A little bit of other drums including hi-hat

- Bass & Guitars

- All vocals

- Keys

 

I use a submixer (Shure P4M) that allows me to separately change the volume of keys vs. band mix. This has been killer for me.

 

I think all the Apple and Bose tech things are cool, though aimed more at the mass iPhone streaming crowd. I don't know if any of that would add much value to a pro IEM rig.

[CyberGene]

On a rehearsal some time ago I had forgotten my earplugs and the other guys can be very loud, especially the drums and the bass. I was desperate but I always have my AirPods Pro in my pocket, so I took them out, put them in my ears in NC mode and they were a life saver! No need to use transparent mode since even in NC mode it was loud.

[Reezekeys]

2 minutes ago, CyberGene said:

in NC mode and they were a life saver! No need to use transparent mode since even in NC mode it was loud.

 

ANC mode did what exactly? Lowered the apparent volume of the bass frequencies, or clipped the transients? I thought noise cancellation acted on "steady state" sound - like the hum of air conditioners or jet engines - not music.

[CyberGene]

7 minutes ago, Reezekeys said:

ANC mode did what exactly? Lowered the apparent volume of the bass frequencies, or clipped the transients? I thought noise cancellation acted on "steady state" sound - like the hum of air conditioners or jet engines - not music.

 

That's a good question and you are right that NC usually dampens monotone noise only rather than music. I don't remember what the difference was but comparing NC on vs NC off there was a difference. (And they have silicon ear-tips that do a good job of passive isolation, so even without NC they do a passable job of saving your ears). I will do testing some day again but I don't play with them guys anymore. (I don't play with anyone anymore, for that matter...)

[DeltaJockey]

I don't gig, but I've been using some Airpod Pros for some time just as noise cancelling/ EQ while playing my acoustic grand. I suffer from ageing ears, and hyperacusis.

They do a really good job of EQing the sound, (something I can only only normally do with my studio gear). The only thing I find, is the dynamic nature of their operation causes them to change sound characteristics if I stop playing for a few seconds, but seem to regain it again after a few seconds. A bit off putting, but worth it for the effect on my ears.

Bluetooth latency is not an issue for me as I don't use them for monitoring any of my other gear. I know better than to use bluetooth I own while playing my keys live.