Tired of playing covers?

[BluMunk]

34 minutes ago, Outkaster said:

The danger in that is that it makes musicians and bands don't even play the right progressions as they don't feel the need to.  That's just lazy.  Covers can teach people a lot more. Probably is there are more shitty covers than good ones.

 

Yes. There's an important difference between "doing our own version with intention" and "these are the chords the guitar player got from ultimatetabs dot com, and so those are the chords we play".  I'm all for re-harmonizing or re-genre-ing songs. But not simply doing a simplified set of chords or rhythms because the loudest member of the band thinks that's the way it goes. Never again will I unlearn a song to accommodate someone else's poor learning.

 

[Stokely]

I fortunately haven't encountered much of that.   If anything its the other way--people that obsess over some minute detail and hammer away at it during practice while the band wears down on that stupid little throwaway detail (that 9 times out of ten the original band doesn't bother with when *they* play it live, either because it was a studio overdub or whatever other reason.)   One common characteristic of weekend warrior cover bands that never make it out of the garage--they keep practicing until it's "perfect".  Hint, it will never be, especially when not all the members learn the song before practice (another common trait).

One of the few songs we did simplify was "Father Christmas" by the Kinks...and by "simplify" I mean we made the breaks come out on even beats.  That song had bizarre breaks that weren't landing on even 16th notes cleanly, yet the Kinks were together on it.  Also the breaks were slightly different each time, all odd though.  Buncha trolls I tell you!  We made the command decision to make things even and consistent, as it was we spent half a practice on that one song (that our client had requested for a Christmas party...only time I've ever worn a suit to a gig, being semi-formal attire!)

 

[HSS]

About 20 -25 years ago I played some gigs in Texas with a band leader (RIP) who was a good, albeit old and cranky, blues guitarist / singer who did quite a few originals.  I recall a gig in an icehouse dive where, as usual, there were drunks in the audience yelling for the band to play Stevie Ray.  I recall that the band leader replied loudly over the PA:  "So y' all want to hear some Stevie Ray tunes?  He never played any of mine, so I won't play any of his tonight."  The band never played that dive again 😉 .  

[ProfD]

15 hours ago, Stokely said:

One common characteristic of weekend warrior cover bands that never make it out of the garage--they keep practicing until it's "perfect".  Hint, it will never be, especially when not all the members learn the song before practice (another common trait).

There is a difference between practice and rehearsal. 

 

Practice is where musicians learn by themselves and/or with others.  The goal may or may not be to take it to the stage.

 

Rehearsal is gig preparation where musicians gather to make sure they are playing songs/tunes in the same key, form and work out intros, outros and transitions. 

 

Musicians learn songs/tunes in advance prior to rehearsal(s).  Once everyone knows their parts and confirms it in rehearsal, it's showtime.  Gigs are merely paid rehearsals where everything else is fine tuned. 

 

Most professional musicians rehearse for several weeks prior to going out on tour.  The *band* gets tighter as the shows go along.

 

Seasoned musicians hardly ever practice or rehearse.  A set-list of songs/tunes is sent out.  A phone call or text message confirms details.  Then, it's just a matter of the gig particulars i.e. equipment required, when, where, time and pay. 😎

[BluMunk]

15 hours ago, Stokely said:

9 times out of ten the original band doesn't bother with when *they* play it live, either because it was a studio overdub or whatever other reason.

 

This is definitely a lesson I learned over time, but continue to have to re-remind myself of. Listening to live recordings really gives a good perspective on what realistic expectations for live performance can be, and can free one up to have some fun instead of obsessing over minutia from studio recordings that are difficult if not impossible to achieve with only X band members.

[kaptainkeys]

On 8/9/2022 at 2:06 AM, KuruPrionz said:

Truth, how you gonna cover Johnny Cash and Journey with the same vocalist?

This is why I always say that the best cover bands are bands that have multiple lead singers.  Maybe the lead vocalist is great at singing high rock vocals, but when the band wants to do a George Michael tune maybe the bass player has a better voice for that type of music.

[HSS]

On 8/8/2022 at 4:06 PM, KuruPrionz said:

Truth, how you gonna cover Johnny Cash and Journey with the same vocalist?

 

I have a TC Helicon "SingThing" that can make my girlyman voice sound like Barry White. It can also make me sound like Minnie Riperton or even the Vienna Boys Choir.  So, I suspect it can make about any vocalist sound like Johnny Cash or Steve Perry.  My son and I have a lot of fun with the SingThing at home, but I would never try to use those tricks in the dive bars I play in for fear of getting the sheeeit kicked out of me (and rightfully so).   

[KuruPrionz]

9 hours ago, HSS said:

 

I have a TC Helicon "SingThing" that can make my girlyman voice sound like Barry White. It can also make me sound like Minnie Riperton or even the Vienna Boys Choir.  So, I suspect it can make about any vocalist sound like Johnny Cash or Steve Perry.  My son and I have a lot of fun with the SingThing at home, but I would never try to use those tricks in the dive bars I play in for fear of getting the sheeeit kicked out of me (and rightfully so).   

That sounds fun!!!!

I have a Sharper Image Saxxy that I bought new, it still works. Long ago we took it to an open mic night. The Tuba voice and the octave down switch cost the club a subwoofer and many people were killed. 

[Bobadohshe]

Just spent 30 minutes reading all the posts on this thread. I'm so grateful for this likeminded group of folks that understand how we keyboard players make our living.

 

This thread is very relevant to me in this very moment. Lately I have been thinking about what it would mean for me to leave the cover band world behind. I've been weighing pros and cons for both near term and short term.

 

My biggest issue to paraphrase Fleetwood Mac, is that I'm afraid of changing because I've built my life around it.

 

I am a member one of the best Top 40 bands in So Cal. The musicianship is high, the professionalism is first rate. Everybody is super versatile; we can do almost anything. I play around 90 gigs a year with them and it's probably 40% corporate events, 45% weddings, 15% parties or concerts in the park. Occasionally there are opportunities to do things like backing an artist (Jon Elefante from Kansas 2 years ago, Skip Martin from the Gap Band earlier this year). Once in awhile, we travel (Hawaii last Winter, Colorado next weekend). I like the music. I don't have a hatred of playing covers when the band is slamming and I am playing the greatest parts conceived of by the greatest players from the greatest bands in musical history. When I'm in my best place mentally, it's a thrill to play the piano part on 'September', it's a thrill to play the simple parts on 'Footloose' while I watch our bass player shred Nathan East's incredible bass lines. I relish the challenge of programming parts and conceptualizing how I will cover it all with 2 hands, and take great pride and satisfaction when I pull it off well. Not only that, but as someone else mentioned in this thread, I am energized by playing with other people. I used to think playing solo piano would be my main fulfillment and bread source, but I actually get really dark doing too much of that. It's more fun to share energy with good musicians and have something be more than the sum of its parts.

 

But DAMN, it sure keeps me from doing lots of other things. And as much as I like the people in the band, there are personal and musical itches that don't get scratched. There is very little wiggle room for creative fulfillment. Nor should there be - this is a product, not a creative endeavor (our few arranged cover youtube videos as the rare exception). Moreover, everyone in the band is getting older and I feel the general energy the band gives off from the stage shifting that way. I don't see any feasible 10 year plan for the business and how it will work when most of the band is in their 60s/70s. And I also observe an insidious lack of connection to the youngest audiences at weddings. We might as well be a DJ playing at some of these weddings. But the boomer parents love us. I don't know if that is a function of the band being older and giving off old vibes or of younger people not valuing live performance in the same way. Will that grow worse and worse every year? And the job DOES get old. The schlep, the routine, missing weekends with my family. But doesn't every job at times?

 

But I'm also pretty happy with my life. I think. I have 2 kids and I can spend a lot of time with them. I have a portion of my life that is taken up with the sports organist thing (maybe 35 gigs a year), a bigger portion taken up by the Top 40 gigs (90 gigs a year), a steady church gig, and then in the cracks I stick in session work, (very fulfilling stuff for me) and misc jazz hits / duos / one offs with singers in places where people can drink and have fun. I live in San Diego and get to breeze around town (most gigs are 20 minutes away, many are 10 min away, some are 40 min away) going to high paying gigs. And with this recipe I can actually make a living and pay a mortgage in this town and have a family. I'm scared to death of jeopardizing that. But I'm also scared of STAGNATION. And missing out on other things I have always wanted to do. More original stuff. More jazz. Playing classical music. Scoring/producing/writing. Maybe giving presentations to young people about a career in music. A Youtube channel about being a performing keyboardist or navigating a career in music. And practicing and becoming a better musician.

 

So in short, while it sounds like a bold and energizing move, I think leaving behind the cover band thing might mean giving up much more than I bargained for, both monetarily and musically.

[ProfD]

5 minutes ago, Bobadohshe said:

So in short, while it sounds like a bold and energizing move, I think leaving behind the cover band thing might mean giving up much more than I bargained for, both monetarily and musically.

Brotha @Bobadohshe,  being a musician is your livelihood. So, you have to do it all in order to keep the lights on and mouths fed.  

 

As it relates to the wedding/corporate band and aging musicians, at some point, you might have to take over and keep it going. 

 

You're *young* enough to bring in new musicians and make changes to the repertoire that appeals to a younger audience. 

 

Obviously, some of us have more *options* when it comes to how we choose to use our musical abilities. 

 

But, if playing music is your *job*, you've got to answer the mail by every means necessary. 😎

[cassdad]

7 hours ago, Bobadohshe said:

Just spent 30 minutes reading all the posts on this thread. I'm so grateful for this likeminded group of folks that understand how we keyboard players make our living.

 

This thread is very relevant to me in this very moment. Lately I have been thinking about what it would mean for me to leave the cover band world behind. I've been weighing pros and cons for both near term and short term.

 

My biggest issue to paraphrase Fleetwood Mac, is that I'm afraid of changing because I've built my life around it.

 

I am a member one of the best Top 40 bands in So Cal. The musicianship is high, the professionalism is first rate. Everybody is super versatile; we can do almost anything. I play around 90 gigs a year with them and it's probably 40% corporate events, 45% weddings, 15% parties or concerts in the park. Occasionally there are opportunities to do things like backing an artist (Jon Elefante from Kansas 2 years ago, Skip Martin from the Gap Band earlier this year). Once in awhile, we travel (Hawaii last Winter, Colorado next weekend). I like the music. I don't have a hatred of playing covers when the band is slamming and I am playing the greatest parts conceived of by the greatest players from the greatest bands in musical history. When I'm in my best place mentally, it's a thrill to play the piano part on 'September', it's a thrill to play the simple parts on 'Footloose' while I watch our bass player shred Nathan East's incredible bass lines. I relish the challenge of programming parts and conceptualizing how I will cover it all with 2 hands, and take great pride and satisfaction when I pull it off well. Not only that, but as someone else mentioned in this thread, I am energized by playing with other people. I used to think playing solo piano would be my main fulfillment and bread source, but I actually get really dark doing too much of that. It's more fun to share energy with good musicians and have something be more than the sum of its parts.

 

But DAMN, it sure keeps me from doing lots of other things. And as much as I like the people in the band, there are personal and musical itches that don't get scratched. There is very little wiggle room for creative fulfillment. Nor should there be - this is a product, not a creative endeavor (our few arranged cover youtube videos as the rare exception). Moreover, everyone in the band is getting older and I feel the general energy the band gives off from the stage shifting that way. I don't see any feasible 10 year plan for the business and how it will work when most of the band is in their 60s/70s. And I also observe an insidious lack of connection to the youngest audiences at weddings. We might as well be a DJ playing at some of these weddings. But the boomer parents love us. I don't know if that is a function of the band being older and giving off old vibes or of younger people not valuing live performance in the same way. Will that grow worse and worse every year? And the job DOES get old. The schlep, the routine, missing weekends with my family. But doesn't every job at times?

 

But I'm also pretty happy with my life. I think. I have 2 kids and I can spend a lot of time with them. I have a portion of my life that is taken up with the sports organist thing (maybe 35 gigs a year), a bigger portion taken up by the Top 40 gigs (90 gigs a year), a steady church gig, and then in the cracks I stick in session work, (very fulfilling stuff for me) and misc jazz hits / duos / one offs with singers in places where people can drink and have fun. I live in San Diego and get to breeze around town (most gigs are 20 minutes away, many are 10 min away, some are 40 min away) going to high paying gigs. And with this recipe I can actually make a living and pay a mortgage in this town and have a family. I'm scared to death of jeopardizing that. But I'm also scared of STAGNATION. And missing out on other things I have always wanted to do. More original stuff. More jazz. Playing classical music. Scoring/producing/writing. Maybe giving presentations to young people about a career in music. A Youtube channel about being a performing keyboardist or navigating a career in music. And practicing and becoming a better musician.

 

So in short, while it sounds like a bold and energizing move, I think leaving behind the cover band thing might mean giving up much more than I bargained for, both monetarily and musically.

Don’t be afraid of “stagnation”…..   the ability to successfully handle it is what separates the boys from the men, what separates a true professional.  IMHO.

[Bobadohshe]

2 hours ago, cassdad said:

Don’t be afraid of “stagnation”…..   the ability to successfully handle it is what separates the boys from the men, what separates a true professional.  IMHO.

 

Would love to hear more of what you mean.

[MathOfInsects]

10 hours ago, Bobadohshe said:

 

This thread is very relevant to me in this very moment. Lately I have been thinking about what it would mean for me to leave the cover band world behind. I've been weighing pros and cons for both near term and short term.

Bobby, would something like a finite sabbatical or hiatus from TMU let you test the burnout issue without have to commit to leaving forever? Three months or something, with a sub that you get up to speed, with the idea being that you’d return at the end, and if it turned out you didn’t want to, not only would you have your answer, but the band would have a replacement in place? 

[Bobadohshe]

41 minutes ago, MathOfInsects said:

Bobby, would something like a finite sabbatical or hiatus from TMU let you test the burnout issue without have to commit to leaving forever? Three months or something, with a sub that you get up to speed, with the idea being that you’d return at the end, and if it turned out you didn’t want to, not only would you have your answer, but the band would have a replacement in place? 

 

It's not a burn out issue. While I did say it can get old - what job doesn't? It's more what spending my time doing all those gigs takes me away from otherwise, and the potential long term effects of being married to this lifestyle missing every Saturday as my kids grow older.

Anyway, no I don't think the sabbatical approach would be very useful. I just had a year and a half long sabbatical in 2020-21, I know what it's like to not do those gigs and have more time for other stuff.

[cassdad]

8 hours ago, Bobadohshe said:

 

Would love to hear more of what you mean.

I mean that being able to play the same old songs repeatedly for years, yet still be able to play them well, and keep them “fresh” via creativity, or just doing them better and better, is an admirable trait / ability.  For example, imagine those broadway actors who have to professionally deliver the same lines and acting night after night, sometimes for years (if it’s a very successful play).  That’s a rare quality, but is essential for many genuine professionals.  Sure it can get old.  But a professional gets past that if there’s a way, via mental state, positive attitude, or ever greater attention to detail.  Learning never stops, and even as well as we may have played, the professional keeps striving to do it even better.  My 2 cents.

[TommyRude]

23 hours ago, Bobadohshe said:

Lately I have been thinking about what it would mean for me to leave the cover band world behind. I've been weighing pros and cons for both near term and short term.

Weighing pros and cons is a good thing to do.  You've laid out some great details, but have you actually done some "weighing"?  Make a list of all the pros and cons, and assign a value to each?  You should be able to define a much more accurate value of all the bits and pieces, both individually and in aggregate.  

 

One thing I don't think I picked up.... while you consider the potential mistake of stepping away from the cover stuff - - have you considered the cost of not stepping away and taking a shot? Add that to your list and measure it.  Many years from now, when it will likely be too late, will you regret not taking a chance when you had the opportunity?

[Bobadohshe]

On 8/12/2022 at 11:03 AM, TommyRude said:

Weighing pros and cons is a good thing to do.  You've laid out some great details, but have you actually done some "weighing"?  Make a list of all the pros and cons, and assign a value to each?  You should be able to define a much more accurate value of all the bits and pieces, both individually and in aggregate.  

Therapist actually had me to this yesterday. Did 1-10 for each. Tricky to assign numerical values to all this stuff. But it was kind of illuminating.

[lsj]

On 8/9/2022 at 11:04 AM, Stokely said:

I've definitely noticed a bit of shift in our area--and this is Florida, skews older!--as to what is an "oldie".    If we analyzed the average age of people dancing at places we play, it has to be 50-60.  And that's mainly just due to the fact that those are the people interested in live music around here.  Just one example, I pushed to do, and sing, the song Don't Change by INXS...fun, easy high energy but the band thought it was too obscure.   Well, people have gone crazy for it, because what used to be "the songs people grew up with" have changed as the people have gotten older.  I'd love to be trying more stuff like you are doing, Jeffinpghpa.   Our singer started that band basically as a 70s AM themed band (was even considering a themed attire, glad to say that went away quickly) so it's hard to get her to move into the "future".   

For me, getting better at singing is what really gets me motivated.  I've made great strides.  Unfortunately I'll never belt high notes like Steve Walsh or Steve Perry or any of those other #&$^% tenors, being a baritone, but it's still fun as hell.   We do a great job on 4 part harmony on Eagles tunes I must say, and it's because we bust our ass working on vocals.

what part of Florida are you performi g.  I live in Jupiter, Florida

[Bill H.]

When it comes do making decisions like this, one thing that's helped me are my journals. I started journaling in early recovery - was encouraged by my sponsor during step work - and have kept it up ever since. At the end of every day I take a few moments to write down what happened and how I felt about it.

 

Although our gigs couldn't be more opposite, their affect on our personal lives have things in common. Did I feel the gig was worth it afterwards? What was cool about it? What wasn't? Were there tensions that could have been avoided? What did I miss because I was working that night? 

 

My journals helped me make the recent decision to drop a room that made a management change a few months ago. Reading how I felt at the time, how others felt about it, and specific circumstances surrounding it pretty much cemented my choice. My memory has a habit of being selective, and reading what really happened helped me regain the full picture.  

 

This probably would not help you right now Bobby, but it may over time. It's also illuminating to read what my life was like on this date  - say - 5 or 10 years ago. It's sometimes hilarious, sometimes tragic, but always informative. 

[Stokely]

On 8/10/2022 at 12:00 PM, GotKeys said:

This is why I always say that the best cover bands are bands that have multiple lead singers.  Maybe the lead vocalist is great at singing high rock vocals, but when the band wants to do a George Michael tune maybe the bass player has a better voice for that type of music.

Yep, our guitarist sings Folsom Prison while our lead (female) vocal does Journey    And I tend to do 80s stuff like INXS and Simple Minds.

Isj, we are based in Orlando and tend to play within an hour of the city (with a few exceptions).

[cassdad]

On 8/12/2022 at 11:03 AM, TommyRude said:

Weighing pros and cons is a good thing to do.  You've laid out some great details, but have you actually done some "weighing"?  Make a list of all the pros and cons, and assign a value to each?  You should be able to define a much more accurate value of all the bits and pieces, both individually and in aggregate.  

 

One thing I don't think I picked up.... while you consider the potential mistake of stepping away from the cover stuff - - have you considered the cost of not stepping away and taking a shot? Add that to your list and measure it.  Many years from now, when it will likely be too late, will you regret not taking a chance when you had the opportunity?

Wow, TommyRude:  I think your last sentence is one of the wisest considerations I’ve heard in a long time (“Many years from now, when it will likely be too late, will you regret not taking a chance when you had the opportunity?”).  Not trying to cry the blues, life’s been good to me.  But speaking from experience and age, I must honestly confess that I wish I had taken a chance.  I did not, and now regret it, and, arguably, it’s now too late.  So for the younger musicians, my 2 cents is to “take the chance”.  Heck, if it doesn’t work out, one can always return to playing the covers.  Alternatively, try doing both if possible.

[TommyRude]

2 hours ago, cassdad said:

Wow, TommyRude:  I think your last sentence is one of the wisest considerations I’ve heard in a long time (“Many years from now, when it will likely be too late, will you regret not taking a chance when you had the opportunity?”).  Not trying to cry the blues, life’s been good to me.  But speaking from experience and age, I must honestly confess that I wish I had taken a chance.  I did not, and now regret it, and, arguably, it’s now too late.  So for the younger musicians, my 2 cents is to “take the chance”.  Heck, if it doesn’t work out, one can always return to playing the covers.  Alternatively, try doing both if possible.

hey Cassdad, I did take a chance, and I'm extremely glad I did.  However, HOW I took the chance leaves a lot to be desired.  I think Bobodoshe (and most of y'all) are infinitely better prepared to execute on the shot taking.  I was young, a high school dropout, with virtually zero business experience and a modicum of talent.  I kept it going for about 15 yrs pretty much on enthusiasm, and in the end - nothing to show for it except great memories.

 

In the context of weighing pros and cons, potential future regrets are difficult to measure.  Moreover - all of us, by spending a considerable amount of time and energy playing music, are taking chances already, regardless of whether playing originals or covers.  Same for everyone in TV, films, athletics.  It's hard out there!  But when it goes well, the rewards are super gratifying.

[MathOfInsects]

I often caution (myself and others) against the "almost-right decision." These are brutal, because they are almost impossible to extricate from once you've made them. The "almost-right" decision is one where everything seems right on paper--smart opportunity, all the trappings of a wise choice--and yet some part of you can't find the "hell yes" for it.

 

In these cases, we often gaslight ourselves out of our hesitation ("I'm just being immature/indulgent/neurotic/dumb," etc.) and adopt a sort of situational enthusiasm for that path. And to make it harder, often it IS one of those reasons. But I also believe that deep down we know the difference between "I know I should be stoked about this but can't seem to find it in me," and "The only reason I'm not stoked about this is because I want it so much it scares me."

The "almost-right" decision is behind every divorce and ugly ending to a job or other commitment. It sounds great, there are things about it that are great, and we figure that last nagging bit of uncertainty will be convinced into submission down the line. But the opposite happens--it grows and festers and then you're stuck giving up something that to all outward appearances would seem ideal and irreplaceable. At that point, leaving means not only leaving the person/place/situation, but also much of the social support systems we can otherwise rely on.

[GRollins]

I could say a lot on this topic, but it would all boil down to some mixture of:

--I want to write original material.

--No one in this part of the country wants to even talk about playing original material. Period. The conversation stops dead. Even the dust motes in the air cease moving.

--I've been writing original material...and in the process learning (slowly) to read music and, as a bonus, I'm picking up some music theory.

--The music I'm doing is...hell, I don't know how to describe it...my influences are rock, jazz, and classical, in no particular order. My stuff doesn't sound like Zeppelin or Yes or Steely Dan or Santana or Joni Mitchell or anyone that I know of, but it is, broadly speaking, in the rock realm. There's no referent that I've found that works when someone asks, "What's your music sound like?"

--Part of the reason I joined this board was to see if I could kinda-sorta accidentally bump into a keyboard player who could take over the keys so I could get back to strings, but that didn't work out--there's no one here (which I already knew, but it got reaffirmed).

--The music I'm writing gets to be like an earworm. It starts going around and around in my head and it drives me crazy until I get it worked out. I gather that other people don't have music grab them that way...I guess they're the same cats who are okay with playing copy sets. More power to them.

--Will I ever play in another cover band? I'm not counting on it. I'm getting more satisfaction out of writing music and building instruments (see the guitar thread I started a while back--I'm building a double neck 6/4 at the moment).

--I've been laughed at for saying this, but I want to leave something behind when I go. I've written stories and articles and those will be real and tangible evidence that I existed. I'd like to leave some music behind, too. Nobody is going to say, "Man, Grey sure could play the hell out of Sweet Home Alabama!" at my funeral (and they won't say it at yours, either). The music I'm making may or may not make the grade, but I won't know unless I try.

--Most people aren't very good at writing music, but they have no inner critic to tell them that their music is just a poorly conceived mish-mash of ideas stolen from other songs. The sort of thing that leads to the old line, "Many are called, but few are chosen." I will be the first to admit that that might apply to me; maybe my stuff is just as banal as some of the other originals I've heard. My main defense against falling into that trap comes from a quote I heard attributed to Yes when they went into the studio to record Close To The Edge: NO CLICHES. I figure if I adhere to that one rule, I'll be halfway there. It's not that hard, really, at least for me, because the stuff I hear in my head is quite different from other peoples' music.

--Will other people like it? As I said above, I won't know until I try...

 

So, with that in mind, I say go for it. If you have music in you, play it the way you hear it. You only get one go-'round here on Earth. You might as well do what you can to enjoy it.

 

Grey

[Baldwin Funster]

I've played originals that I refrained from introducing as such at gigs. If it's a good song people will warm up to it pretty fast. But I'd you say this next song is an original I find that you have added an obstacle for yourself. I've done that introducing songs to the band also.