Crumar Seventeen Review

[Mitch Towne]

I completely second Adan’s comments on the Crumar Rhodes emulation. Nothing else hardware based comes close. I love my new CP88 for piano, but the vaunted Yamaha Rhodes patches are a joke compared to the Crumar. And the interesting thing is that the TP100 keyboard is a perfect match for it. It’s enough to suspend disbelief. 

[AnotherScott]

13 minutes ago, Mitch Towne said:

I completely second Adan’s comments on the Crumar Rhodes emulation. Nothing else hardware based comes close. I love my new CP88 for piano, but the vaunted Yamaha Rhodes patches are a joke compared to the Crumar. 

I never particularly cared for the Rhodes sounds on the various Motifs or Montage/MODX, but I do like the ones on the new YC/CP series quite a bit. High bar!

[Adan]

15 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

I never particularly cared for the Rhodes sounds on the various Motifs or Montage/MODX, but I do like the ones on the new YC/CP series quite a bit. High bar!

I also quite like the rhodes on the YC/CP.  They're up there with the Korg SV, Vox Continental, and Crumar as my favorite hardware rhodes sounds.  Of all these, the Crumar gives you the most authentic playing experience, by which I mean it feels the most like a real rhodes under your fingers.  

 

I wouldn't call the Crumar Seventeen a one trick pony exactly, but to me it clearly has one really good trick and everything else rides on coattails.

[MHPC]

I love the Fender Rhodes sound. For long I have been hunting for the best Rhodes experience, apart from the real thing which I confess I have never played. There are some great digital samples/apps (VTines is one to check out) and combined with a good keyboard I've come pretty close, I think.

 

But now, based on online reviews and sounds and the Crumar reputation for fanatical realism, I bought the Crumar seventeen. Here are my first impressions after a couple of weeks. I like it a lot for the sound and feel but I also have some serious reservations. So read on.

 

The modelled Rhodes is gorgeous, as are the (sampled) acoustic pianos and the Wurly. The other sampled sounds like clavi and other EPs also sound pretty good to me (but I can only compare to recorded examples). Also I like that connections are grouped on the left side of the panel and that midi out din is there. The whole set up is very satisfying in a light weight construction that looks good and feels sturdy. No cover though so you will need a good bag to carry it around.

 

The feel of the keys is quite heavy and pianolike. To me it feels very similar to the top quality RH3 keybed on my Korg D1 (and also on kronos and grandstage). In the Crumar it is even more subtle and responsive (but not graded).

 

So far so good. Now for the downside: the complex and annoying interface. Here we see the typical Crumar disregard for their customers. There is no manual (WTF?) and the one page fact sheet gives you only the bare minimum of information. Crumar seem to think that musicians want to spend their time to figure out an instrument instead of just go ahead and play it. In fact, when I complained earlier about a similar issue (I also own a Crumar B3) their reply was sort of offended, denying the problem instead of helping. Crumar, if you're reading this: this is no way to treat customers even if you would have been right (which, to be clear, you were not).

 

OK, so I went on to find out the possibilities of the Seventeen on my own lonesome self. It took me quite a while and yes it's all there. Sounds can be modified to satisfaction. But beware: this can not be done on the fly when gigging. Even regular and useful tweaks like changing EQ parameters, wha, drive or tremolo require a deep dive into the complex menu. The tiny LED screen adds to the problem and (again) there is no manual to clarify terms and abbreviations (SMP parameters??) which may be familiar to the crumar nerds but not to me. Instead you can create and save up to eight favored patches, but then they also are fixed when gigging. I completely fail to understand this policy. I have played a Nord electro for many years, and Nord have made all this so much easier. Surely that is why you see them on stage everywhere.

 

But in the end it's about the sound and feel of the instrument and here the Crumar wins. It is very musical and inspiring to play. Despite the annoying and confusing interface I am happy with it. And let's not forget it is cheaper than comparable boards.

 

[JohnDoe]

Crumar support is known for not always being friendly to customers with complaints.....

[Doerfler]

12 minutes ago, JohnDoe said:

Crumar support is known for not always being friendly to customers with complaints.....

I myself have never had any issues with Crumar customer service. Andrea has always been courteous and quick to respond. As always, YMMV.  

[Adan]

4 hours ago, MHPC said:

 

The tiny LED screen adds to the problem and (again) there is no manual to clarify terms and abbreviations (SMP parameters??) which may be familiar to the crumar nerds but not to me. Instead you can create and save up to eight favored patches, but then they also are fixed when gigging.

 

You can save sounds in 64 locations: 8 banks of 8.  

 

Agree this system is clunky at best for making changes while playing.

 

And I also have no idea what "SMP" means and haven't had time yet to experiment with it.

 

Crumar is one of the few companies (I'm not sure who the others are) where your email will be answered (promptly) by the guy who designed the keyboard.  It's refreshing and you usually get a little of that italian charisma along with your response.

[HammondDave]

Crumar customer support is fantastic. I have been gigging with Mojos for many years. And the very few instances when I needed help, I was answered promptly and accurately. 

[ABECK]

22 hours ago, Adan said:

 

And I also have no idea what "SMP" means and haven't had time yet to experiment with it.

 

 The Seven and other GSI/Crumar products have SMP Release Level and SMP Damper level, which are release samples and damper noise samples, respectively.  Could it be that?

 

[pianomikeoct]

On 7/29/2022 at 11:19 PM, Adan said:

At under $1600 US it seems like a very good value, especially considering inflation.  EPs of that quality generally aren't found in boards costing less.  To be fair, the TP100 action should be judged against others in its weight class.  Would be interesting to play side by side with the Numa Piano X 73.  

I have both , the actions are pretty different , The Numa 73 is light and fast although alittle clunky feeling sometimes the Crumar 17 is softer and a little sluggish not too sluggish but works well with the electric pianos and the regular pianos, smoother than the Numa 73 but both actions fit the instruments.

[BluesB3]

It's almost Halloween so I don't feel bad about "digging" up this topic.

 

How do Crumar Seventeen purchasers feel now about the board and the manufacturer now that it's been in use for a year or more? 

 

I'm a potential Numa X 73 or Crumar Seventeen purchaser that is looking for a board to give me one or two "decent" AP sounds and very strong Rhodes and Wurlies.

[kenheeter]

I have a Seventeen and a Numa X 73.  Love them both and I have received great support from both companies. The Numa is much more flexible and powerful but if you're looking for a vintage type vibe and your focus is AP/EP the Seventeen is  a great choice.

 

[bjosko]

The latest update for Numa X was a nice improvement for the Rhodes sound. I’m still feel the Wurlitzer is lacking behind on it, compared to what else I own or have tried. It’s like it are missing some body. 

Both was superb in the Seven, but the keyboard was to heavy for AP. But then, on the Seven it was a control for touch that might it doable for AP, problem was it was a global setting, not pr. Program. The feeling when you close your eyes and played the Rhodes on the Seven was like playing a well maintained Rhodes Mark I.

 

The perfect keyboard would have adjustable pivot points for the keys, or something….

[Adan]

Since I bought my Seventeen, the TP110 action has become available, which is what's in the Numa X 73, whereas the Seventeen has the older TP100.  I've tried out the Numa 73, and would say the TP110 is significantly better, though neither TP100 nor 110 is as close to satisfying as some other hammer actions.  110 is still a compromise you choose to live with to have a very portable keyboard.

 

So, the point is, I don't think knowing there's an improved Fatar action would stop me from buying the Seventeen again.  

 

What might stop me from buying it again is that, unlike in the Seven, the wurly is not modeled, and the sampled version that's there is pretty bad IMO. I note bjosko's comment above about the wurly in the Numa not being satisfying to him, but it's far better than what's in the Seventeen.  I can forgive the Seventeen not having top notch AP sounds, but if I had to choose today I'd get the Numa instead of the Seventeen.

 

The Seventeen is still great for having a beautiful retro look and a flat top.  Love that flat top!

[BluesB3]

17 minutes ago, Adan said:

it's far better than what's in the Seventeen.  <snip> but if I had to choose today I'd get the Numa instead of the Seventeen.

Thanks Adan. This is the crux of my decision making. I'll admit that I am a bit seduced by the old school form factor of the Seventeen. (former BITD owner of a Rock-Si-Chord 200)

 

I use the Wurly a lot. I have a 200A at home so I know the sound. Any decent Rhodes Mk I or II will do for me. No need for Dynos or "smooth jazz" Rhodes. I'm not too picky about the action as long as it is more "pianistic" than my Electro 2. The new band does a fair amount of what I call Roadhouse country that requires a decent AP that will sit in the mix. I won't be doing any jazz trio gigs that require a demanding piano sound.

 

kenheeter, you've got both. Care to weigh in?

[kenheeter]

I think the Seventeen is the best for Rhodes. I don't think either are stellar for Wurlie.  I like the new CFX acoustic sample for the Seventeen and in fact I bought the inexpensive Just Piano app for my ipad and I can play the CFX from the Numa easily. The USB implementation on the Numa is fantastic so if you plan to use an ipad onstage it works flawlessly with the Numa.  There is much more real time control available on the Numa. With the Seventeen you pretty much have to make your edits at home and save them to presets for gigging.  I tend to leave my Seventeen in the studio for recording and rehearsals and I gig with the Numa and ipad.  Although now that I have a Stage 3 everything changes again. I still like the Nord acoustic pianos best. 

Ken

[bjosko]

10 minutes ago, BluesB3 said:

 

I use the Wurly a lot. I have a 200A at home so I know the sound. Any decent Rhodes Mk I or II will do for me. No need for Dynos or "smooth jazz" Rhodes. I'm not too picky about the action as long as it is more "pianistic" than my Electro 2. The new band does a fair amount of what I call Roadhouse country that requires a decent AP that will sit in the mix. I won't be doing any jazz trio gigs that require a demanding piano sound.

 

 

Than you should have a look at the Viscount Legend’s 70 as well.

It have that lovely retro look, and a large flat top. I have that and my NumaX here at the moment, will try to compare the Wurlys.

But the Legend is a bit more clumsy to transport than for example the Numa.

[BluesB3]

@Bjosko Have you had a chance to compare Wurlies on the two boards?

[Delaware Dave]

if you purchase the Seven instead of the Seventeen you'd get the modeled Wurlie.  That Wurlie is in my Gemini module, it's pretty accurate.

[bjosko]

On 11/6/2023 at 10:39 PM, BluesB3 said:

@Bjosko Have you had a chance to compare Wurlies on the two boards?

Sorry, I have been busy, and have got the Man Flu, so haven’t had the chance to compare to much, but found some tweaks on the Numa that changed it to the better. Will try to work a bit more on it later, and post the results in the Numa thread, since this is a Crumar thread. 

[Dave Barry]

Hey Everybody- Happy holidays! Got the Seventeen and loving it so far; I initially got it to serve as an at -home practice/controller (i've been lugging around the Viscount 70's thing for the last year or so), but the nice light-weightness (?) of this beauty has me thinking about taking it out for shows/recording. Here's my question: anyone given any thought to building a rhodes-like cover for this thing? Maybe swapping out the ball corners for something more meaty, and (in my case/perfect world) wrap it in a nice orange tolex? Any input would be apprecated!

[Mr. Hoag]

Still getting along with the Seventeen? Thinking about purchasing one here soonish. Interested to know how it serves on a gig. Cheers!

[Coca]

I am orientating on a 17. I noticed there are not many YouTube reviews / tutorials. Would be nice to get a better understanding. I emailed Crumar with some questions about the modeling settings, got a reply next day answering all my questions.

 

My question: I read about some “electronic /mechanical” issues, is that still the case with the 2022 and later hardware?

[jazzpiano88]

I  am disturbed by the the apparent extreme realism that makes the Rhodes unplayable for me. 

 

Example:  I play a single note very very light -- there is no sound on the note itself,  but there is a sound on the upswing of the hammer.   Only happens on Rhodes and never with any chords.   No issues with other instruments. 

 

I think I'm going to need to send it back for good.   My first shipment had a completely broken Fatar action DOA and was replaced - could be a side effect.

 

Just a very weird instrument.