News from Roland: Fantom 06/07/08

[analogman1]

Is there a demo video of the "Synthy" sounds of the Fantom? It would help cover many needs in my rig and save me from bringing my Mac out for smaller gigs...

I've been going between The '06 and the Modx+ 6, for that elusive "second board" to use with NY Electro. SO I've got Organs, EP, AP et all all covered by the Electro. 

I'm sure this has been asked many times before...

 

[AnotherScott]

45 minutes ago, analogman1 said:

Is there a demo video of the "Synthy" sounds of the Fantom?

There are probably over 1000 synthy presets, so it's not a demo I'd want to sit and watch. 😉 And then of course each one is infinitely variable... and you can create your own synth sounds from scratch from a variety of VA models (between what's stock and what you can purchase optionally).

 

One of my criticisms of Fantom-0 is... too many sounds! With similar names, too. I mean, literally, there are many sets of patches whose names differ only by a number, like "Bell 1" through "Bell 22"  (which, btw, are still nowhere near the total number of bell sounds). If they're going to provide a board with that many patches, the architecture should include a more descriptive (and ideally searchable) field, so that you could at least get some sense of what differentiates these sounds without having to listen to (and maybe take notes about) each one, as you're trying to find the kind of sound you're after. There can be a needle-in-a-haystack element to searching for some of these sounds.  

 

 

[CyberGene]

2 minutes ago, AnotherScott said:

and ideally searchable

Is there not a way of searching for patches by narrowing down through categories/sub-categories like on the MODX?

[AnotherScott]

57 minutes ago, CyberGene said:

Is there not a way of searching for patches by narrowing down through categories/sub-categories like on the MODX?

Yes, you can search for patch names, wither globally or within category, but that's of limited use when a search for "bell" brings up a list that includes "Bell 1" through "Bell 22." Now, if each of those were presented along with a more descriptive field (whether also searchable, or even if not), you'd have a much better chance of quickly finding what you're looking for. e.g. is it a bell with long decay, or short? is it a pure tone or one with dissonance? Does it have some kind of effect on it? What kind? I imagine that if you listened to bell patches 1-22, you could probably come up with some words that would help you differentiate each one from the other 21, at least so the next time you wanted a bell, you wouldn't have to listen to all 22 again to figure out what the differences were, or which ones were more likely to be closer to what you're looking for this time.

 

There are lots of other examples. How useful are the names "Poly Syn 1" through "Poly Syn 26"? Again, that's not even all the poly synth sounds by a long shot, but how can you usefully distinguish among these 26 poly syn presets? There's a limit to how differentiating you can be in short patch names, but an ancillary text field might let you know some of its key characteristics. Of course, on a VA synth sound, those characteristics are likely to be adjustable anyway. But the whole point of synth presets is to get something close to what you want out of the gate, and in this case, the only way to know is to audition those 26 and maybe take some manual notes. 

[analogman1]

Not being able to (re)name the sounds is a real bummer..

[ProfD]

2 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

One of my criticisms of Fantom-0 is... too many sounds! With similar names, too.

A while ago, I created a thread regarding this especially with Roland gear.😁

 

All manufacturers are guilty of providing too many similar sounds. 

 

Users would be better off with one  [insert sound here] and having the sound shaping tools (parameters amd effects) to change it according to their needs. 

 

Scrolling/searching through patches for a particular sound is a huge time sink that is counter-productive to actually playing music.

 

A synth/sampler with 50 base sounds and sound shaping controls is really all that most gigging musicians need. Same applies to studio musicians, hobbyists and bedroom music producers too.😎

[CyberGene]

Pretty tempted to press the purchase button of my Muziker cart with a Fantom-06 and a Roland CB-B61 bag. And these complaints about too many patches are not working! 😀 You should all try harder!

[GovernorSilver]

Yep the MC-707/101 also has the issue of too many presets that are just variations on the same sound

[ProfD]

19 minutes ago, CyberGene said:

Pretty tempted to press the purchase button of my Muziker cart with a Fantom-06 and a Roland CB-B61 bag. And these complaints about too many patches are not working! 😀 You should all try harder!

Go for it as long as you understand patch editing is nothing like your Hydrasynth.😁

 

You'll find a Fantom sound faster scrolling through presets than menu-diving to edit or create it.🤣😎

[CyberGene]

3 minutes ago, ProfD said:

as you understand patch editing is nothing like your Hydrasynth.

For this particular project I prefer using presets, while the Hydra is to satisfy my lonely needs for geeky sound design when at home. But frankly speaking, I am a bit tired of sound design lately. Realistically, I can live as easily with presets too, that I only edit slightly to taste. 

[CyberGene]

What has happened with Roland on Thomann? For the last few weeks almost all Roland products disappeared. I thought it might be about Roland being in troubles but it seems other European stores have them and Muziker (a Slovakian store that I’ve used a few times) was just restocked with Fantoms. Really odd. 

[Mighty Motif Max]

The synth section on the Fantom-0 series is the same as the large Fantom (2019) that I own - it's by far the most flexible, strong synth engine on any of my keyboards. It sounds good. I do wish there were more insert effects available though, which is the only weakness I can think of.

[Old No7]

23 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

One of my criticisms of Fantom-0 is... too many sounds!

 

23 hours ago, CyberGene said:

Is there not a way of searching for patches by narrowing down through categories/sub-categories like on the MODX?

 

20 hours ago, ProfD said:

You'll find a Fantom sound faster scrolling through presets than menu-diving to edit or create it.🤣😎

 

Here's a thought on the above....

 

-> Use the "Ratings" feature within each tone bank to rate tones (1, 2 or 3 stars) and when you hit the STAR button -- all you will see is your top-rated tones.

 

I've only had my Fantom-08 for a few days, but I started doing that right away when "auditioning" sounds, as you're right -- there are too many!  For sure, I'll be auditioning them for awhile (and some I hope to NEVER hear again!), but that's the fun/challenge of a new board...

 

Hope this helps!

 

Old No7

 

[AnotherScott]

1 hour ago, Old No7 said:

-> Use the "Ratings" feature within each tone bank to rate tones (1, 2 or 3 stars) and when you hit the STAR button -- all you will see is your top-rated tones.

Yes, that's what I did right from the start, as you have. But I didn't go through every sound... I went to the categories I usually need, and Favorited the best ones. But when there were too many choices, as long as I got something that I liked, I didn't bother going through the next hundred options just in case there was something I liked better. I don't have that much patience. 😉

 

I also had to tweak a number of them, because they were my favorite of a type except for having a useless effect that had to be removed, or a release that was too long, or an attack that was off. While Fantom-0 remains one of my favorite boards, I've needed to tweak sounds much more than I ever did on a Yamaha, for example.

[ProfD]

1 hour ago, AnotherScott said:

While Fantom-0 remains one of my favorite boards, I've needed to tweak sounds much more than I ever did on a Yamaha, for example.

That's why Roland offers 27 versions of the same sound.🤣😎

[CyberGene]

While having my MODX6, I was constantly being amazed at how good every single sound was. There’s absolutely brutal no compromise quality to Yamaha’s sound approach. However working with it was way too awkward and ultimately I ended up using it as a preset-machine, one patch at a time which is what made me feel I’m not using it as expected and so I sold it. I’m kind of sorry though. I’m wondering if they can simplify it by providing a board with all its sounds without any programmability, just selecting patches and maybe split/layer two parts. In an even tinier and lighter body. Would buy it before I blink.

 

I almost ordered the Fantom-06 yesterday but something is stopping me. I may still purchase it but I prefer sleeping a few more days over the idea. 

[ProfD]

1 hour ago, CyberGene said:

I’m wondering if they can simplify it by providing a board with all its sounds without any programmability, just selecting patches and maybe split/layer two parts. In an even tinier and lighter body. Would buy it before I blink.

 

Reads like a prime candidate for a digital piano (DP). 😁

 

Nowadays, DPs are loaded with some semblance of the bread & butter sounds gigging KB players will need.

 

For  example, the RD series from Roland has a variety of KB and synth sounds with split/layer and some sound editing capability too. 

 

The new Yamaha CK series has it to a degree as well. 😎

[CyberGene]

59 minutes ago, ProfD said:

Reads like a prime candidate for a digital piano (DP).

Digital pianos are too much into piano and Rhodes and not so much about other sounds, especially synths. The CK is close though and is in my shortlist 😉

[bill5]

  

On 9/18/2023 at 11:44 AM, AnotherScott said:

One of my criticisms of Fantom-0 is... too many sounds! 

 

On 9/18/2023 at 2:28 PM, ProfD said:

All manufacturers are guilty of providing too many similar sounds. 

Amen and amen. I can't speak to hardware so much as soft synths, but they are often ridiculous, with this "more is better" attitude. Omnisphere, which many regard as the best (God knows the most expensive) soft synth around, boasts "over 14,000 presets." That makes me less inclined to buy something, not more. 

[ProfD]

17 minutes ago, CyberGene said:

Digital pianos are too much into piano and Rhodes and not so much about other sounds, especially synths.

The synth sounds in DPs are usually good enough for gigging musicians.  Some DPs offer simple synth parameters too.😎

[Old No7]

5 hours ago, CyberGene said:

I’m wondering if they can simplify it by providing a board with all its sounds without any programmability, just selecting patches and maybe split/layer two parts. In an even tinier and lighter body. Would buy it before I blink. 

 

Sounds tailor-made for a "ROMpler" -- the Yamaha MX61 has many of the same "yet untweakable" sounds as the more capable MODX6.  I know, 'cause I sold off my MX to upgrade to the MODX!  And it's half the price of the Fantom-06 as well!  (Feel free to send half the savings my way...  PM me for the address. 😄)

 

Old No7

 

 

[AnotherScott]

6 hours ago, CyberGene said:

 I’m wondering if they can simplify it by providing a board with all its sounds without any programmability, just selecting patches and maybe split/layer two parts. In an even tinier and lighter body. Would buy it before I blink.

 

Short of the tinier/lighter body, the MODX can function pretty well that way just as it is. The problem is documentation. Once you've got it sussed out, it can actually be pretty easy to use for that basic stuff, but trying to figure out how to use it in an easy way for basic usage is the challenge. The way the manual is written, you have to learn a bunch of complicated stuff just in order to see how you can actually do most of what you want pretty easily.

 

 

[CyberGene]

I’m still having GAS for a Fantom-06 and leaning steadily at purchasing one. I’ve been watching YouTube videos and reading the manual and I quite like it. The synth sounds are absolutely amazing, exactly what I’m looking for and I see a lot of people creating patterns or even songs (from the patterns) using the sequencer, so I think it will work great for my needs of quickly creating some patterns in the rehearsal room with the other guys and then jamming on top of it. I like how light it is too. 
 

What I can’t still understand is, how do these extensions work? And in particular installing modules, e.g. the Jupiter-8 and the new wave-table one n/zyme (is the latter compatible with the 0-series?). Are these like different algorithms and different UI-s? Or are they just patches that recreate the corresponding machine by using the onboard samples and/or the VA-capabilities? How much do they cost and is the Fantom-06 coming with some extensions preinstalled or no models at all. Kind of lost grasping all that. 

[Ibarch]

On 9/23/2023 at 8:45 AM, CyberGene said:

I’m still having GAS for a Fantom-06 and leaning steadily at purchasing one. I’ve been watching YouTube videos and reading the manual and I quite like it. The synth sounds are absolutely amazing, exactly what I’m looking for and I see a lot of people creating patterns or even songs (from the patterns) using the sequencer, so I think it will work great for my needs of quickly creating some patterns in the rehearsal room with the other guys and then jamming on top of it. I like how light it is too. 
 

What I can’t still understand is, how do these extensions work? And in particular installing modules, e.g. the Jupiter-8 and the new wave-table one n/zyme (is the latter compatible with the 0-series?). Are these like different algorithms and different UI-s? Or are they just patches that recreate the corresponding machine by using the onboard samples and/or the VA-capabilities? How much do they cost and is the Fantom-06 coming with some extensions preinstalled or no models at all. Kind of lost grasping all that. 

 

Having been adamant a month ago that I was happy with my RD-88, I subsequently contracted a severe case of GAS myself resulting in the acquisition of a Fantom 08. 

 

I can answer some questions. The Fantom 0 series has its own version of the model  expansions. The ones for the Fantom series are not compatible. There are only  4 expansions available for the 0 series, each one costing $149. The n/zyme model only works for the full Fantom, not the 0 series. 

 

The model expansions have different waveforms/sounds from other Zen-core banks. I believe that they also have different versions of filters, lfos etc based on the different  designs and features  from the original synths. Ive only played with them briefly inside Zenology, not planning on buying them as yet to load into my Fantom 08. They each have a different UI in Zenology. I guess they would add new screens with the same UI  to be run in the Fantom, to access their own specific controls and features. 

 

The wave expansions are new sounds that get added as new partials and tones in the Fantom 0. These are installed as new sound banks.  My fantom 08 came with the 3 supernatural wave expansions already installed. There are 12 other expansions which can be downloaded and installed for free. Not all will fit at the same time. I managed 7 at once, including the 3 pre-installed ones. 

 

Finally, there are the sound packs. These do not include new waveforms / sounds as such. They are just new tones based on existing sounds (zen core partials) already in the Fantom. I got the first 10 packs included  free. There are over 100 additional sound packs and Roland seem keen to keep adding to this frequently.

 

[allan_evett]

I'm planning on picking up a Fantom-08, hopefully in the next few weeks.  I like almost everything about my 2019 Fantom-7, except the bulk when taking it out. And I prefer a  fully-weighted 88-key piano-synth hybrid for stage use; would've had a Fantom-8, but the size and weight are off putting. From 2016 through 2018 I hauled a Montage 8 around - same with a Kronos 88, 2011-13.  For the occasional fest and larger stage transport/setup was okay, but for most clubs it was akin to having a whale on stage. And cartage and setting up in small rooms was usually a PITA. 

 

There are things to miss about the original, 2019 Fantom - the V-piano, analog filter, larger sample memory, etc.; but I won't miss the 'aftertouch' - which was marginal, at best. But the new Fantom's user interface is quite comfortable now, and having it with a weighted 88-key action is very appealing. I've utilized a couple SN stage piano instruments since 2008, and the finger-ears connection has always been consistent. I tried to make it work with the RD88 - two of them, actually - but just couldn't get along with the tiny display and interface.  My CK88 is a solid, capable 'board and will mostly stay in my home workspace for Logic Pro use, though having the built in speak is handy.  The user interface is quite an improvement over the RD88, though it still falls short of the Fantom for how I like to work. 

[Motif88]

On 5/22/2024 at 11:51 AM, allan_evett said:

I'm planning on picking up a Fantom-08, hopefully in the next few weeks.  I like almost everything about my 2019 Fantom-7, except the bulk when taking it out. And I prefer a  fully-weighted 88-key piano-synth hybrid for stage use; would've had a Fantom-8, but the size and weight are off putting. From 2016 through 2018 I hauled a Montage 8 around - same with a Kronos 88, 2011-13.  For the occasional fest and larger stage transport/setup was okay, but for most clubs it was akin to having a whale on stage. And cartage and setting up in small rooms was usually a PITA. 

 

There are things to miss about the original, 2019 Fantom - the V-piano, analog filter, larger sample memory, etc.; but I won't miss the 'aftertouch' - which was marginal, at best. But the new Fantom's user interface is quite comfortable now, and having it with a weighted 88-key action is very appealing. I've utilized a couple SN stage piano instruments since 2008, and the finger-ears connection has always been consistent. I tried to make it work with the RD88 - two of them, actually - but just couldn't get along with the tiny display and interface.  My CK88 is a solid, capable 'board and will mostly stay in my home workspace for Logic Pro use, though having the built in speak is handy.  The user interface is quite an improvement over the RD88, though it still falls short of the Fantom for how I like to work. 

Agreed…I had a Fantom 08 for a couple weeks and would definitely make it my main keyboard if I was still playing live. Great combination of keyboard action, patches, weight, navigation and sound. It was redundant in my home studio setup. But I always have GAS…

[niacin]

On 5/23/2024 at 1:51 AM, allan_evett said:

I'm planning on picking up a Fantom-08, hopefully in the next few weeks.  I like almost everything about my 2019 Fantom-7, except the bulk when taking it out. And I prefer a  fully-weighted 88-key piano-synth hybrid for stage use; would've had a Fantom-8, but the size and weight are off putting. From 2016 through 2018 I hauled a Montage 8 around - same with a Kronos 88, 2011-13.  For the occasional fest and larger stage transport/setup was okay, but for most clubs it was akin to having a whale on stage. And cartage and setting up in small rooms was usually a PITA. 

 

There are things to miss about the original, 2019 Fantom - the V-piano, analog filter, larger sample memory, etc.; but I won't miss the 'aftertouch' - which was marginal, at best. But the new Fantom's user interface is quite comfortable now, and having it with a weighted 88-key action is very appealing. I've utilized a couple SN stage piano instruments since 2008, and the finger-ears connection has always been consistent. I tried to make it work with the RD88 - two of them, actually - but just couldn't get along with the tiny display and interface.  My CK88 is a solid, capable 'board and will mostly stay in my home workspace for Logic Pro use, though having the built in speak is handy.  The user interface is quite an improvement over the RD88, though it still falls short of the Fantom for how I like to work. 

i was going to post on the do you buy flagship models thread no cause the flagship model

invariably weighs the most. I’d happily gig with a Fantom-0 but a Fantom? Fuggettabowtit, I ain’t carrying that.

[Stokely]

30-40 pounds I'm ok with.  I mostly have short hauls, and a cart for the occasional longer ones.  No stairs besides those to get up on stage that I can remember in 12 years of gigging with my band.  The Fantom 7 is definitely pretty large though, it would be about the top of the size/weight range I'd gig.    I'm going to go for a 6, partially because I have a nice Gator flight case that will fit it.