Yamaha CP88/YC88 vs. the rest

[AnotherScott]

The upper and lower trigger points can certainly vary from one keyboard to another. The constants are, as I see it, that the upper and lower triggers are not actually at the extremes of the full upper or lower most points of the key's travel (having it literally at the absolute top is physically impossible, not sure about the bottom); and that for a "third sensor" to do what it is supposed to do, it must be placed between the upper and lower most trigger points. But within those parameters, any combination is possible. It's certainly possible that a given board's top trigger can be much closer to the actual top of the key's travel than another board's top trigger, or that it's bottom trigger can be much closer to the actual bottom of the key's travel. And if a board has a sensor in the middle, it can be anywhere in the middle (although it would be self-defeating to have it TOO close to one of the others).

[CyberGene]

It's possible to have a sensor point at the very bottom, it's how Cybrid works. (For the unfamiliar, it's my own DIY MIDI controller made from a real grand piano action and optical sensors, and technically speaking it's the hammer top position at the stop-rail), however I'm using a 600 MHz Teensy board with a pretty quick scanning. I scan the entire keyboard in around 2 microseconds and even very quick hammer rebounds still keep the third activation point engaged (well, those are felt hammers and they experience a compression which would explain why they don't rebound immediately). But for a peace of mind, I regulate those points to be a very tiny bit off the actual stop-rail position. There are different considerations for different instruments. On an acoustic piano you can slowly lift the hammer until the escapement point and then throw it as much as you can (with another hand) and would be able to generate a faint sound. So, in order to be able to detect this, I "placed" my two measuring points for velocity after the escapement and that's just 1.5mm distance. The hammer can be pretty fast and having such a small distance to measure velocity means the scanning logic needs to be very fast in order to calculate accurate durations, otherwise the sampling would be too coarse to guarantee precision. I believe most digital pianos use the same algorithm of scanning but much slower controller which is why they can't place the two measurement point too close to the bottom. To guarantee precision, they need them wider apart. But then also, they need to be able to provide realistic key-release and on real piano that's at the middle. There are many variables and design choices, so I can imagine why there may be differences between the different brands and models of actions.

 

Ultimately it's how the keyboard feels and whether people like how it plays.

[AnotherScott]

Ah, yes, optical sensors are an entirely different system from what I was talking about. The only "gigging" board I'm aware of that had them was the Vax77.

[funkyhammond]

More thoughts about the high trigger.  The original submission on IdeaScale also mentions: "High trigger, when enabled, should also be supported on the MIDI output."  @AnotherScott (BTW, is that user 'Scott' you?)

 

That sounds reasonable, but what does it really mean in terms of implementation? I have read that the Electro always sends out velocity MIDI notes and the high trigger is only internal. That is interesting since it would mean that sequencing the organ would not necessarily sound exactly the same on playback. But I understand the dilemma because what if you have an organ and piano sound layered? What do you send out for that note? 

 

One possibility is if a note is only playing an organ sound, have it send the MIDI note with high-trigger (and max velocity). But if the note is playing any kind of velocity sound (even if layered with organ), it sends outs low trigger with velocity. Alternatively, I think I remember reading something in the Nord Stage 3 manual about it having different MIDI modes and one of them allows different MIDI channels for each instrument section. So, organs could then transmit high-trigger MIDI data on their channels while velocity instruments send normal MIDI on their channels (although I don't know if the Stage actually does this). The YC could have a MIDI Tx Channel setting in the menu for each instrument section, which could also be set to 'General' so that the default is still to have that section send to the General channel. If the Organ section is set to its own MIDI Tx channel instead of 'General' (and its not the same as the General channel), it can transmit high-trigger notes on that channel. That kind of complicates the MIDI implementation but is more flexible. But I think my first idea would also work and maybe be simpler. Thoughts?

 

I was thinking about posting a comment to the original IdeaScale submission but I'd like to get some feedback first from you guys that have dealt with various stage keyboards (or simpler workstations) and their MIDI implementations.

[Docbop]

I like this guys reviews particularly because I don't speak Italian so I focus a bit more on the sounds.  Then I listen with subtitles turned on to see what he's saying.    Here he's doing the piano sounds and action of the RD800 and YC73.

 

 

[funkyhammond]

I finally got a chance to play a YC61 in the store. I was immediately disappointed with the feel of the action. I would call it a light synth action, not semi-weighted, and mediocre quality at best. My ancient Nord Electro 2 feels better and more solid and it doesn't even have the stiffer springs of later Electros. There was an Electro 6D 73 set up right beside the YC61 so I spent a couple hours comparing the two boards. It was clear how much better the Electro action was for fine dynamic control of acoustic and electric pianos. Even though the springs on the NE6D are a bit stiff for organ, the high trigger compensates for that. The key travel of the YC61 also felt a bit shallow but I might have just been fooled by the light action. 

 

A couple things not specific to the 61 version: The drawbar grips are a bit short compared to the Electro or a real Hammond, making it a bit more awkward to grab a handful of them (still possible, just maybe not as easy). It's nice that the YC has pitch bend and mod sticks but I could clearly hear "micro-stepping" instead of a smooth pitch bend when bending notes, especially higher ones. I thought that was an artifact of old digital keyboards. Are pro keyboards today still sometimes using limited MIDI ranges internally and causing such artifacts? I expect pro gear to be high resolution internally, regardless of the resolution of the MIDI Out data.

 

The action of the YC61 was a deal breaker for me even at the low, low price at Tom Lee Music. So, I'm back to considering the YC73 and other 73-key options.

 

 

[CyberGene]

4 minutes ago, funkyhammond said:

finally got a chance to play a YC61 in the store. I was immediately disappointed with the feel of the action. I would call it a light synth action, not semi-weighted, and mediocre quality at best.

It's certainly a matter of taste. I find it very good and probably among the best synth actions there is. I'm not sure what semi-weighted usually implies but I've played some non-hammer actions with stiff springs and to me those are much harder to play than soft and shallow synth keys (as the one in YC61). And to put things in perspective, I consider myself a pianist mainly, I have a Yamaha N1X with a real grand piano action and I'm very picky about digital piano actions, so I come from a piano point of view. Of course it's not a piano action and I still consider returning mine and replacing it with a YC73 (I'll have to wait 2-3 months for YC73 to arrive at Thomann though) but I wouldn't describe it as a bad action for the piano sounds. Quite on the contrary, it feels better than most non-hammer actions I've tried. This all comes to show how different tastes and people are.

[funkyhammond]

23 minutes ago, CyberGene said:

I've played some non-hammer actions with stiff springs and to me those are much harder to play than soft and shallow synth keys (as the one in YC61)

 

What do you mean by "harder to play"? Harder on the fingers or harder to control dynamics smoothly? I'm strictly speaking of the latter. Especially when playing softly with subtle dynamics, or horn-like phrasing, I find fast/light actions such as the one on the YC61 a bit difficult to control for certain things. Even the Nord action is a compromise but I find the light action of the YC61 even more so. Again, having them side-by-side to A/B made this pretty clear to me. Maybe it partly depends on what kind of music is being played. Or my finger muscles are just not that accurate and need the extra key resistance to mask the sloppiness. 😄 There is also the cramped 5-octave range for pianos. I swore I was never going to do that again. Almost tempted by this deal but I'm kind of glad now that I don't like the action and that the YC73 is a hammer action.

 

 

[drawback]

Hence the deep discount! One reason other than price was the return policy! We shall see… Supposed to have mine in a couple of days and will report back.

[CyberGene]

3 minutes ago, funkyhammond said:

Harder on the fingers or harder to control dynamics smoothly?

The latter. I’m used to pianos where the inertia of the hammer keeps it moving with the actual velocity even if I release my fingers. I don’t remember what keyboard I played with semi-weighted keys (stiff springs) but I had missed notes or very soft dynamics that weren’t meant. Which is why I either want a hammer action, or a soft and shallow synth action. Things in between don’t work for me but it could be playing style. 
 

7 minutes ago, funkyhammond said:

There is also the cramped 5-octave range for pianos. I swore I was never going to do that again. Almost tempted by this deal but I'm kind of glad now that I don't like the action and that the YC73 is a hammer action.

Indeed. It’s the reason why I’m considering a swap for a YC73 or a CP73. It’s not the action of the YC61 that bothers me so much rather than the 5 octaves 😕 But then I’d want 88 🤣

[CyberGene]

Why would you get a CP73 vs a YC73? I personally like there are more effects on the YC and together with the FM-organs I can do some weird stuff, almost like a synth, but now that I have the YC61 I’m not sure I’m an organ guy or would actually use the FM-organs for synth-like sound. But I’ve had it for just a few days, so can’t really decide. The problem is if I swap it for a YC73 I will have to wait 3 months and pay €500 more. If I swap it for a CP73 I’ll get it immediately and won’t pay anything. But then it’s just a rompler… Well, with great pianos and Rhodes though. Tough choice. 

[AnotherScott]

14 minutes ago, funkyhammond said:

Harder on the fingers or harder to control dynamics smoothly? I'm strictly speaking of the latter. Especially when playing softly with subtle dynamics, or horn-like phrasing, I find fast/light actions such as the one on the YC61 a bit difficult to control for certain things. 

 

To evaluate the YC fairly, I think it is important to check that it has the latest software (1.2), and then you can use the two Touch Sensitivity parameters (Depth and Offset) to adjust the response of a piano sound to your taste. These controls can make a big difference.

[funkyhammond]

Just now, AnotherScott said:

 

To evaluate the YC fairly, I think it is important to check that it has the latest software (1.2), and then you can use the two Touch Sensitivity parameters (Depth and Offset) to adjust the response of a piano sound to your taste. These controls can make a big difference.

 

I thought about that but, in the case of the YC61, I seriously doubt that would be the issue for me. I've had enough experience with non-weighted/semi-weighted keyboards to understand what the likely problem is. Even without any sound playing, I just didn't really like the feel to begin with. But for the YC73, I will most certainly take your point.

[AnotherScott]

18 hours ago, funkyhammond said:

More thoughts about the high trigger.  The original submission on IdeaScale also mentions: "High trigger, when enabled, should also be supported on the MIDI output."  @AnotherScott (BTW, is that user 'Scott' you?)

 

That sounds reasonable, but what does it really mean in terms of implementation? I have read that the Electro always sends out velocity MIDI notes and the high trigger is only internal. That is interesting since it would mean that sequencing the organ would not necessarily sound exactly the same on playback. But I understand the dilemma because what if you have an organ and piano sound layered? What do you send out for that note? 

 

One possibility is if a note is only playing an organ sound, have it send the MIDI note with high-trigger (and max velocity). But if the note is playing any kind of velocity sound (even if layered with organ), it sends outs low trigger with velocity. Alternatively, I think I remember reading something in the Nord Stage 3 manual about it having different MIDI modes and one of them allows different MIDI channels for each instrument section. So, organs could then transmit high-trigger MIDI data on their channels while velocity instruments send normal MIDI on their channels (although I don't know if the Stage actually does this).

 

Yes, I posted that on ideascale.

 

And yes, a potential problem with sending high trigger over MIDI is what to do if you're playing piano and organ on the same MIDI channel, because you can only send one MIDI Note On per keystrike per MIDI channel... you can't send both the high trigger for the organ sound and the lo (velocity) trigger for the piano sound on the same note, on the same MIDI channel.

 

IIRC, Roland VR09/VR730 sends high trigger over MIDI as long as you're only playing organ; it reverts to low trigger if you add piano (whether split or layered).

 

Dexibell J7 (and I'm assuming S9) seem to do it perfectly. If you have an organ sound selected, the MIDI Out is high trigger. If you have a different sound selected, it is low trigger on the MIDI out. If you have an organ split with another sound, the organ part transmits MIDI high trigger, the non-organ part transmits low trigger with velocity. If you layer organ with another sound, a single keypress will actually send out both MIDI signals. Organ is always the primary part (channel 1, at least by default), the layered sound will be channel 2, and mimicking what happens when you play, the MIDI Out will send the high trigger MIDI Out on channel 1, and the low trigger with velocity MIDI Out on channel 2.

 

Kurzweil also handles this very well.

 

I believe the only current Korg with a high trigger option is the Vox Continental... it supports high trigger only internally, not over MIDI. I don't know what Hammond does on their multi-sound instruments (e.g. SK Pro).

 

 

 

[Fleer]

I quite liked the action on the YC61 when I played it in store, but then I was looking for a synth/organ action, not a semi-/hammer one. To me it was only second to the Vox. 

[Aynsley Green]

Some further thoughts (and corrections), after fiddling with my Yamaha YC88 + Roland JX-08 duo for a couple of weeks:

 

• After some tweaking with the Yamaha C7 sample and Tone Knob, Reverb and the Damper Resonance effect (like the Nord's have), the piano can sound bloody good - big dynamic range, expansive when you let things decay, punchy when you lay into it. Even Classical stuff works on it. Nord should be worried.
• Now with v1.2, the Hammond and Leslie are seriously good and surprisingly editable, and the Drawbars + LEDs (with a Catch mode!) are actually very smart. Nord should be worried.
• There are indeed Pitch Mod effects, hidden in the Pitch Mod section in the Menu, shockingly. They're designed around providing vibrato via the Mod Wheel, but you can kind of trick it into getting the 'Nord Vibe' effect should you require one. This does not use an effect slot, handily.
• You can indeed Swap and move around patches, wish I had known that earlier! Again, hidden away in the Menu.
• Unlike a lot of the Boutiques, the Roland JX-08 has controls that aren't too small, it has no shortage of user patch memory, you can save Dual/Splits as Performances (called Patterns), has 20 voices of polyphony, has plenty of effects, and the sound has plenty of character. Took a while, but Roland finally got it right.
• Sending patch changes to the Roland JX-08 was easy, however programming Duals/Splits on the JX-08 is quite fiddly (you save this 'Performance' as a Pattern, which is recallable by MIDI Patch Change #1-128, which is easy to save with a patch on the YC).
  • Roland's infuriating 'a Performance can only refer to a patch' philosophy is historically accurate, but still a pain. Same for having no patch names - I'm currently in the midst of programming a show by using an Excel spreadsheet.
  • Setting up things in different octaves with Splits is also fiddly - having to use the Oscillator octave shifts and the coarse tuning knob.
  • Getting the volumes right between JX-08 Parts and the YC Parts is also fiddly. You can physically reach the volume knob on the top of the JX-08 pretty easily though, if it is sitting on the YC's music stand.
• The Boutique can be powered by the USB port on the back on the YC, nice! But it produces a ground hum, maybe due to other factors. (I've never really understand that stuff, any suggestions?)
• Multitimbrality is limiting (much like a Nord Stage) - two JX synth layers, two samples or FM synths, and one Organ/Baby FM synth, but that's probably all one needs for most gigs.
  • The Baby FM synth does help free up a Sample slot if you just need a Pad or the like.
  • This does mean you can have 5 synth sounds at once!

 

Generally though, the action and sound are satisfying - I find myself sitting and playing at length, even though I have a real piano sitting right next to it!

Furthermore, even after purchasing the Yamaha YC88, adding the Roland JX-08, Music Stand addon, Soft Case, FC7 Pedal, some cables, and an expensive Stay keyboard stand, I'm still well under what one would pay for a Nord Stage 3 88.

[AnotherScott]

8 hours ago, Aynsley Green said:

After some tweaking with the Yamaha C7 sample and Tone Knob, Reverb and the Damper Resonance effect (like the Nord's have)

Actually, I believe that on the Yamaha, Damper Resonance is implemented as an effect, whereas on the Nord, it is implemented via invoking other samples.

 

8 hours ago, Aynsley Green said:

Drawbars + LEDs (with a Catch mode!) are actually very smart. 

Yes, it's a great implementation! But no matter whether I set for Jump or Catch, there's always going to be times I wished for the other. So I just posted a suggestion to make that functionality easily toggle-able from the front panel, so it could be done on the fly instead of having to go into a menu. It's at https://yamahasynth.ideascale.com/c/idea/286389 if you'd care to upvote or comment.

 

 

 

[funkyhammond]

14 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

IIRC, Roland VR09/VR730 sends high trigger over MIDI as long as you're only playing organ; it reverts to low trigger if you add piano (whether split or layered).

 

Dexibell J7 (and I'm assuming S9) seem to do it perfectly. If you have an organ sound selected, the MIDI Out is high trigger. If you have a different sound selected, it is low trigger on the MIDI out. If you have an organ split with another sound, the organ part transmits MIDI high trigger, the non-organ part transmits low trigger with velocity. If you layer organ with another sound, a single keypress will actually send out both MIDI signals. Organ is always the primary part (channel 1, at least by default), the layered sound will be channel 2, and mimicking what happens when you play, the MIDI Out will send the high trigger MIDI Out on channel 1, and the low trigger with velocity MIDI Out on channel 2.

 

 

 

 

Part of the challenge of what makes sense also has to do with the sound organization/architecture of the instrument. What makes sense on one keyboard may not map very well to a different model of keyboard with a different architecture. So, I was trying to figure out what makes sense for the YC's design.

 

The simple implementation I was suggesting is basically the Roland version except that it would do it on a per-note basis, so splits could still send different types of MIDI Out on the same channel. 

 

I wasn't sure I totally understood what you wrote about the Dexibell J7 so I took a look at the manual. If I understand, the design of the Dexibell is that it basically has 4 slots: Upper, Lower, Pedal, and Coupled, that you can assign any sound to (except organ can't go to Coupled). These slots each have their own Tx and Rx MIDI channels. The three main slots are for doing splits and the Coupled slot is for adding a second sound to create layers. (On the Rx side, it also means all slots can be driven individually on separate channels by external control.) So, splits send out to their own individual MIDI channels and any sound added as a layer (Coupled) also sends out to its own MIDI channel. With this design it's easy to determine if an organ is set to any of the slots and transmit high-trigger MIDI notes on that slot's MIDI channel. Not sure what happens if you have set things to the same MIDI channel, but I would then expect it do something similar to the Roland.

 

The YC's design is a bit different since it has one dedicated Organ section (with upper and lower subsections, but no pedal subsection) and then two non-organ sections, Key A and Key B. These wind up getting assigned to splits and layers differently than how the Dexibell does it. For simplicity, I think the Roland method works, but I would like it to be per-note so that splits can at least be treated differently. Preferably, I can't think of any problem with my other idea about having each of the sections have their own MIDI channel and set to 'General' by default (in which case it can behave like the Roland when there are overlapping channels). And if the Organ section had both an upper and lower MIDI channel, that would then also solve the MIDI Rx problem of having full control of the sounds and dual manual organ from an external controller.

 

I don't want to also read the manual of the Kurzweil now, but I recall reading on another thread that when there is a layer, the user chooses which sound is primary and then the MIDI Out will be either high-trigger or low-trigger based on that. Again, I'm not sure if this makes sense for the YC's designed.

[funkyhammond]

Has anyone here with a YC73 tried to reproduce the "fast repeated notes on black keys" issue that some people have reported? I'm wondering if the new velocity settings in OS 1.2 helps with that at all. I'm mostly concerned about when doing fast double strikes of notes or chords. I do a lot of rhythmic playing. I'm not sure when I'll get to the out-of-town store that has a YC73 on the floor to demo (it's a bit of a drive and gas prices are crazy right now).

[drohm]

23 hours ago, funkyhammond said:

Has anyone here with a YC73 tried to reproduce the "fast repeated notes on black keys" issue that some people have reported? I'm wondering if the new velocity settings in OS 1.2 helps with that at all. I'm mostly concerned about when doing fast double strikes of notes or chords. I do a lot of rhythmic playing. I'm not sure when I'll get to the out-of-town store that has a YC73 on the floor to demo (it's a bit of a drive and gas prices are crazy right now).

I have not had any issues with my YC73 and fast repeated notes. I have only had it for a week, so I will check more carefully tonight. So far, I really like this keyboard. 

[drawback]

On 3/12/2022 at 4:14 PM, funkyhammond said:

I finally got a chance to play a YC61 in the store. I was immediately disappointed with the feel of the action. I would call it a light synth action, not semi-weighted, and mediocre quality at best. My ancient Nord Electro 2 feels better and more solid and it doesn't even have the stiffer springs of later Electros. There was an Electro 6D 73 set up right beside the YC61 so I spent a couple hours comparing the two boards. It was clear how much better the Electro action was for fine dynamic control of acoustic and electric pianos. Even though the springs on the NE6D are a bit stiff for organ, the high trigger compensates for that. The key travel of the YC61 also felt a bit shallow but I might have just been fooled by the light action. 

 

A couple things not specific to the 61 version: The drawbar grips are a bit short compared to the Electro or a real Hammond, making it a bit more awkward to grab a handful of them (still possible, just maybe not as easy). It's nice that the YC has pitch bend and mod sticks but I could clearly hear "micro-stepping" instead of a smooth pitch bend when bending notes, especially higher ones. I thought that was an artifact of old digital keyboards. Are pro keyboards today still sometimes using limited MIDI ranges internally and causing such artifacts? I expect pro gear to be high resolution internally, regardless of the resolution of the MIDI Out data.

 

The action of the YC61 was a deal breaker for me even at the low, low price at Tom Lee Music. So, I'm back to considering the YC73 and other 73-key options.

 

 

Just an update. My YC61 arrived today and I had exactly the same impression. I really, really wanted to like this board, but you know when it's not gonna happen. A major disappointment from action to sound. Boxed up and returned, easy come, easy go.

[funkyhammond]

3 hours ago, drawback said:

Just an update. My YC61 arrived today and I had exactly the same impression. I really, really wanted to like this board, but you know when it's not gonna happen. A major disappointment from action to sound. Boxed up and returned, easy come, easy go.

 

I'm still deciding on the sound and the 73-key version. They finally got a 73 in a local store so I'll be hopefully trying it in the next couple of days. What didn't you like about the sound?

[drawback]

13 hours ago, funkyhammond said:

 

I'm still deciding on the sound and the 73-key version. They finally got a 73 in a local store so I'll be hopefully trying it in the next couple of days. What didn't you like about the sound?

TBT the overall sounds were kind of what I expected and have had in past Yamaha products. It was kind of “oh, that one” when I sampled them. The two areas that disappointed me most however were the Organ and EPs. I’d hoped with all the Rd versions there’d be at least one that sounded authentic to me. And the Hammond core tone is not up to current standards that have been had in other hardware for almost 10 years now. Icing on the cake was the toy-like action that seemed to fight back.

 

Best of luck on the 73 — report back!

[AnotherScott]

12 minutes ago, drawback said:

The two areas that disappointed me most however were the Organ and EPs.

 

Funny, those are the two areas that most impressed me! Not that other sounds aren't good, but as you say, they are kind of "known" Yamaha (i.e. I've had them in my MODX). I hope you did install the 1.2 update... the organ really needs it for the rotary, the EPs get increased playability from the velocity controls.

[CyberGene]

I decided to replace my YC61 with a YC73 instead. I like the YC61 and its keyboard, I can play pianos and Rhodes on it fairly decently but I'd still prefer a few more keys on each side of the 61 keys, and being a hardcore piano player I think a hammer action would still be better. The only problem is I will have to wait more than 2 months for the YC73 to become available at Thomann but let's hope it can arrive sooner.

[drawback]

2 hours ago, CyberGene said:

I decided to replace my YC61 with a YC73 instead. I like the YC61 and its keyboard, I can play pianos and Rhodes on it fairly decently but I'd still prefer a few more keys on each side of the 61 keys, and being a hardcore piano player I think a hammer action would still be better. The only problem is I will have to wait more than 2 months for the YC73 to become available at Thomann but let's hope it can arrive sooner.

At the sale price I paid for the YC61, the YC73 is $1300 CDN more – which is the reason I tried out the 61 in the first place. That's a lot of extra dough for the same sounds with action that again may be a compromise. I'll have to wait till there's a '73 in stock locally and see for myself. What with the manufacturing/shipping delays there may be another two or three updates by then! 

[funkyhammond]

26 minutes ago, drawback said:

I'll have to wait till there's a '73 in stock locally and see for myself. What with the manufacturing/shipping delays there may be another two or three updates by then! 

 

Maybe not in Victoria but I would think Vancouver should have them soon. They do seem to be getting a few now in the Toronto area.

[Lady Gaia]

22 hours ago, drawback said:

Just an update. My YC61 arrived today and I had exactly the same impression. I really, really wanted to like this board, but you know when it's not gonna happen. A major disappointment from action to sound. Boxed up and returned, easy come, easy go.

It's always disappointing when products just don't live up to expectations, but I have to say that my expectations for "semi-weighted" keys these days have been lowered so far it'd be hard to be unpleasantly surprised.  It feels like every manufacturer has decided that cost is the single most important attribute in their synth actions, and to heck with what it feels like to play them.  I'd love to see the trend reverse at some point but it's been headed the same direction for years.

[funkyhammond]

Funkyhammond v. YC Trial

Day 1

Preliminary Hearing

 

The "discovery" research phase was done. I had a mountain of questions and I wanted answers, dammit! I needed information and I was going to get it no matter what it took. I had gotten this truth serum off some guy on the internet. He simply called it his "1.2" batch. I put it into some fancy schmancy hi-tech delivery device that would get past security and made my plans.

I arrived, walked right through, saw the defendant, and started making a B-line. I heard someone say, "Hello, sir?...", as I just kept walking at full pace. I looked right at YC and said, "I got somethin' for you." I stuck the stick where the sun don't shine and watched as YC went all quiet and then started spinning. I wasn't sure how long it was going to take for him to get his bearings so I pretended like nothing happened and walked off to mingle with Mr. SV while YC recovered from the initial shock.

 

When YC finally came to, I went over to "have a talk". At first, I liked what he was saying. It was familiar and it made sense. But the more I prodded, the more I started seeing flaws in his story. Something wasn't totally adding up but I couldn't quite put my finger on it. I realized I was running out of time and his handlers were going to be there soon to check on him. They were going to ask me questions and wonder what I was up to. I had to get out of there before anyone suspected anything.

 

Fortunately, it wasn't a total loss. YC revealed some interesting details. He even leaked something about the organ donor when I drove him hard. He was so high on that serum that he couldn't stop making these weird clicking noises. And sometimes his speech got all warbly.

 

The chat with Mr. SV was also quite enlightening. (He kept insisting I call him "SV the Second". Hopefully, he's not like his father: a smooth talker but a pain-in-the-ass in every other way.) Anyway, it may help with what's going to come next. But that was going to have to be enough for the time being. I was going to have to wait until the following day and hope I could get YC alone again and press him on those details he revealed.

 

To be continued...

 

[funkyhammond]

Funkyhammond v. YC

Day 2: Full Trial

 

I'll get right to it. I spent a few hours yesterday comparing the YC73 to the SV-2 (88) and also the CP88 for the action.

 

The Good:

• EPs are playable, lots of details with key down/key release noises, but also kind of limited (see The Bad)
• The APs sound quite good, a little on the bright side (typical of Yamaha, I guess)
• Lighter hammer action that is easy to play and even okay for organ when needed (external non-weighted keyboard still recommended if doing lots of organ playing)
• The whole unit is not that heavy. Great portability. Similar to Nord Electro HP 73. Specs show that the Korg SV-2 73 is about 10 lbs heavier.
• Unlike some stage keyboards has pitch bend and mod controls, and a synth portamento feature
• Great panel layout and interface, maybe the best I've seen in this type of stage keyboard (with only a couple of minor gripes)
• Pretty good Hammond emulation and good Leslie (with the 1.2 update), maybe not the best, but pretty good
• Organ drawbar sliders with LEDs (best of both worlds)

The Bad:

• The black keys. Ugh. I reproduced the issue. I will attach a video in a separate post. May not be a significant issue depending on what you play. I still haven't decided if this is a deal-breaker for me. I might hardly ever notice it when playing music but it might really bug me if I occasionally do.
• Something was a little off about the Hammond percussion and/or key click to my ears. The best way I can describe it is that the attack of the notes felt slightly soft. I tried playing with the key click volume but that didn't help. There's no menu setting for percussion level. The old and noisy Hammond variation (patch H3) with its louder percussion sounded a bit better in that regard. But the default H1 variation is the one I would want to use most of the time. Even after playing around with the organ and rotary overdrive, I had a hard time making chord stabs really "bite". 
• Couldn't find a default Rhodes patch to usually go to. They all had very distinct characteristics. The ones in the SV-2 have a fuller and more intimate sound with more tonal variation (more layers?) across the dynamic range and felt more like sitting at the real thing. Might not be a problem in a band context.
• Pitch and mod sticks are kind of awkward to use, especially together. The 45 degree angle, while ergonomic for wheels on the far upper left, seems wrong for thin sticks. I don't know why people keep trying to reinvent "the wheel". Considering how well thought-out the rest of the panel is, it's too bad. 
• I could sometimes hear subtle micro-stepping/zipper effect when using pitch bend or portamento with certain sounds in the higher octaves.
• Switching the live drawbars quickly between upper and lower while playing is a bit awkward because of the far placement of the button. I would have at least swapped positions of that upper/lower button with the patch knob/readout so that the upper/lower button was closer to the actual drawbars and beside the other organ buttons. 

 

Overall, I think it's a really good stage keyboard at a good price if you can live with the negatives. I'm still deciding.

 

Alternatives that I'm considering for a 73/7x hammer-action stage keyboard in a similar price range:

 

Nord Electro 5/6 HP 73

Korg SV-2 73  (no clonewheel, just organ patches)

 

I'm looking for good EPs, decent APs, a portable hammer-action, and would prefer that it had a clonewheel built in but I have other options for that if necessary.