Yamaha CP88/YC88 vs. the rest

[Aynsley Green]

Tried it in the shop, the action is excellent, even better than the Nord Grand which is insanely expensive, and the sounds are as good as the Nord, more or less. And not egregiously overpriced, refreshingly.

I have a Nord Stage 2 at work and I find the action borderline-unplayable, which is pity because the piano sounds are great.

 

Anyone gigging one of these? Any others I should be considering?

[AnotherScott]

7 minutes ago, Aynsley Green said:

I have a Nord Stage 2 at work and I find the action borderline-unplayable

Which model NS2 do you have?

 

  

7 minutes ago, Aynsley Green said:

Any others I should be considering?

Maybe a Kawai, like the MP7SE, which has an action similar (but not identical) to the Nord Grand.

[Coker]

Loving my YC88, but have the same reservations about it’s Leslie sim others have discussed. I’ve bought and owned all the usual suspects and ultimately sold them because of their actions.  

[Docbop]

I've been looking at NS3 and Yamaha YC88 and real close except the price.    The big attraction of the Nord's in general is the free library of sounds to choose for free especially pianos.   The YC's only have the Yamaha pianos not the Bosendorfers.  The Yamaha PC has both the Yamaha and Bosendorfer pianos.   The organs everyone seems to favor the NS3.    Then NS3 you can go deep on the synths.    

 

NS3 high price, but big library of free sounds, good organ, a synth not just samples.    Yamaha reasonable price,  more acoustic piano feel keybed,  USB audio and MIDI.   

[CEB]

Gigging?  Depends on the gigs.   For my pop stuff it’s Korg because of patch control.  The Kronos action is in my opinion too heavy in the bass.  But Korg Setlist still blows everything else away.   My gigs are synth heavy and I like programming most the Nine internal engines.   If you use just a handful of bread and butter ROMpler sounds I like the action on Kawai.  Kawai sounds are decent too.  
 

Montage 8 action is very nice but the unit is physically heavy. Yamaha presets have too much grease to use live. They need to be dried out some.  (Remove a lot of the friggin verb) 
 

Nord does a nice job on the presets but I didn’t like the action on the Stage I played either. It seemed uniformly too stiff but that is me. 
 

Fantom feels great but sound are a little effect heavy like the Montage. It’s heavy like the Montage. 
 

I like the YC. If you are playing organ on the weighted bed then the Leslie sim is probably perfectly fine for your needs.  
 

 

[AnotherScott]

1 hour ago, Docbop said:

I've been looking at NS3 and Yamaha YC88 and real close except the price. 

To me the YC is kind of halfway between the Electro 6 and the Stage 3, though the Electro 6 doesn't come in an 88.

 

Like the Electro, the YC lets you split/layer a max of 3 internal sounds, with a shared single available split point (Electro is 1 each of organ/piano/other, YC is 1 organ + 2 other). Both have extremely limited synth (filter/envelope) controls, basically 2 knobs' worth. So the Stage beats them both in those respects. But the YC does add some features that you have to go up to the Stage to get from Nord... i.e. external MIDI zones, separate rate and depth knobs for the effects, pitch/mod controls, and the ability to play a synth sound in mono with portamento. Some of the other things the Stage has over the YC would be aftertouch, assignable outs, the cool morph functions, and that you can load your own samples into it. The ability to load your own samples into a knobby synth is really interesting, and still uncommon. (The only other current boards like that that come to mind are Prophet X, Nord Wave 2, and Studiologic Sledge.) But yes, I can see where a YC could give someone "enough" of what a Stage does, that they could be competitive. Kind of like the Hammond SK Pro, in that respect.

 

 

[ElmerJFudd]

My selection of the CP88 was due #1 to the action. #2 the grand piano, upright and electric piano sample libraries.  #3 the new tactile interface. #4 Yamaha build quality.  It’s as good a slab digital piano as exists.  41lbs in a compact body.  Others that compare for me are the Yamaha CP4, P-515 (has speakers), Kawai ES8 (also has speakers).  
 

There are many with excellent sample libraries and fx, expandable, features for days.  But a very short list in a price range I’d spend, weight I’d carry and features I must have for your average piano centric gig.  
 

 

[Outkaster]

YC88 blows a lot of the others out of the water and is built like a tent. I am gigging with one now.

[SamuelBLupowitz]

I hadn't upgraded my stage piano in over a decade, and my CP88 has me excited to play a digital piano onstage for the first time in years. I love it. I purchased mine lightly used from Outkaster!

[pinkfloydcramer]

At first I thought springing for an open box YC88 was extravagant but no more. The action compares well to that of the Kawai MP11SE (a fantastic board but 30 lbs heavier) and adjusting the horn/rotor balance and tone knob goes a long way towards making the organ useable, although I still may use a Vent on occasion (running mono through a QSC CP12). I'm not sure how much difference the 3-sensors make but with the CFX, it's very inspiring to play. I still get around better on the CP interface, so I can see how choosing one over the other is not a cut-and-dried decision.    

[AnotherScott]

3 minutes ago, pinkfloydcramer said:

 I still get around better on the CP interface, so I can see how choosing one over the other is not a cut-and-dried decision.    

 

Yes, I posted about that at https://www.yamahasynth.com/ask-a-question/cp73-cp88-vs-yc73-yc88

[John Salazar]

Anybody using a YC88/CP88 as a bottom board for a Nord? I have Stage 3 Compact and am looking for a weighted action for a dual board setup.  My main question is if the CP88 action plays well when triggering Nord acoustic pianos.  I realize using both keyboards in one setup might be a little redundant sound wise and I would probably be triggering the Nord most of the time, but there definitely are some sounds on the CP that have their own use unique to that keyboard.  For example, I'm not really a fan of the CP stock acoustic pianos but using advanced mode to put one in the sub section and turning the release all the way down gives a sound that I hear a lot of Gospel players use and a one that I could really use in some situations - this can't be done with the piano samples on the red keyboard.  I can also see myself using some of the EPs especially with the on-board effects as they do provide a different sound.

[ElmerJFudd]

This is of course a great question - and a great pairing.  Because the CP is not going to give you a programmable synth engine, or load user samples, or allow for expansion of additional samples beyond what Yamaha is providing via firmware updates.  So less redundant than you’d think at first glance.   
 

There’s no doubt in my mind the action will trigger decently based on MIDI 0-127. The CP does a nice job with my Kontakt and UVI pianos. But there isn’t a way I can think of to tweak the velocity curve from the CP side when wired to the Nord.  Can external MIDI velocity curves be tweaked incoming on the Nord side?  Worth it to plop your Nord on top of a CP at a shop and see if you like it.  My gut feeling says yes - it will be preferable for playing piano than the compact’s action.  Worth the cost and the haul?  Not for me.  I’d be more inclined to plop a Kawai ES-110 or 520 under it.  - no those actions aren’t as piano like as the CP, but quite good for the price and weight. 

 

[allan_evett]

I've used my YC88 with my Stage 3, 76.  Have MIDI'd the two, and the YC's velocity do play well with the Stage. I normally use that rig un-MIDI'd though; two 'boards, plug-and-play. Great for classic rock and country. Though I have a couple of pianos 'dialed-in' on the Stage 3, I prefer the YC's S700 or CFX when gigging with both. For more involved synth work, I'll use the Stage 3 on the bottom and put a poly-ROMpler up-top.  But the YC does have more going for it than sometimes credited, synth-wise.  Yes, the filter/envelope 'matrix' is unusual, but it's surprised me more than once; and the core samples are strong, not to mention having 8-op FM tones available - both in the Keys and Organ sections.  I used one of the FM-based organs to emulate the Farfisa-through-Leslie sound on, "Don't Do Me Like That"; it nailed it. 

 

The YC88 gives me the strongest hands-to-ears connection I've had from a Yamaha stage piano. And live, it's presence has definitely caught attention from band mates and audience members.  Dave, I do share your experience regarding prior warm up, though. My Kawai upright is  much easier to jump onto cold.

[Aynsley Green]

On 2/2/2022 at 11:41 AM, AnotherScott said:

Which model NS2 do you have?

 

  

Maybe a Kawai, like the MP7SE, which has an action similar (but not identical) to the Nord Grand.

 

Nord Stage 2 88. Also used to have a Nord Electro 6D (with the waterfall action), which I quite liked, but such a limited board.

I'm fussy about actions though, even the Kawai VPC1 wasn't amazing (spongey, wobbled at the bottom)

[AnotherScott]

1 hour ago, allan_evett said:

The YC88 gives me the strongest hands-to-ears connection I've had from a Yamaha stage piano....Dave, I do share your experience regarding prior warm up, though. My Kawai upright is  much easier to jump onto cold.

Yeah... the CP88/YC88 are heavier feeling than I'd like, but still (paradoxically) among the more satisfying stage pianos I've played. I do wish they would again come out with something lighter feeling, like the CP1/CP5.

[rickzjamm]

Love the action on the YC88 & pair it with the MODX6 which is great but then you're in the "two board" zone.  So for more of a "quickie set up / tear down" I use the Kronos which covers everything but is weighty & the AP action isn't as good as the YC. I know, picky picky picky.

[ElmerJFudd]

44 minutes ago, Aynsley Green said:

 

Nord Stage 2 88. Also used to have a Nord Electro 6D (with the waterfall action), which I quite liked, but such a limited board.

I'm fussy about actions though, even the Kawai VPC1 wasn't amazing (spongey, wobbled at the bottom)

Kawai chose not to offer their best action in the neither the VPC-1 nor the Nord Grand.  That’s how it goes in the MI business. 

[ElmerJFudd]

23 minutes ago, AnotherScott said:

Yeah... the CP88/YC88 are heavier feeling than I'd like, but still (paradoxically) among the more satisfying stage pianos I've played. I do wish they would again come out with something lighter feeling, like the CP1/CP5.

CP88 is definitely meatier - sort of like actions used in a Yamaha or a Bechstein acoustic grand.  Not as delicate as what you typically expect from a Steinway action.  Not that these digital slabs can really deliver that experience.  But Yamaha’s CP line has been best in class for slab gigging digital pianos for a while now.  
 

Despite efforts to simulate let off on some other designs - most of the other action designs aren’t fast enough.  I’m thinking of the RD2000 as an example.  Korg improved action/piano sound connection on the SV2.  But for piano playing I still prefer the CP88.  But I wouldn’t frown if I showed up and saw I had to play the SV2 for the night.  

[AnotherScott]

40 minutes ago, ElmerJFudd said:

Kawai chose not to offer their best action in the neither the VPC-1 nor the Nord Grand.  That’s how it goes in the MI business. 

VPC1 was Kawai's best action at the time, before the MP11/11SE came out, which is the current top of line action (in something that is at least somewhat portable, i.e. not counting the actions of the high-end consoles which could not be put into something even only as portable as the 60-70ish pound boards we're talking about). And even that much weight was probably why Nord chose to have Kawai build them a variant of the MP7SE action, rather than the 11-series.

[MAJUSCULE]

I'm jonesing for a CP73 to slip underneath my NS3C. Mmm, gig rig.

[AnotherScott]

The Yamaha grands I've played have been quite light feeling. Very few digitals feel as light as my C6. I played an older Yamaha baby grand at a venue once, it was actually TOO light, it was near impossible to play pianissimo on it. (Maybe it needed regulation...?)

[dickiefunk]

I upgraded my old Roland RD300gx a few months ago ended up buying the CP88. I played the Nord Stage 3 at a couple of gigs a while back and whilst it’s a very capable board, I personally didn’t click with it. Also tried the new Roland RD88 and really didn’t like that at all! It felt like a cheap plastic budget keyboard. I then tried the CP88 and instantly loved it. The keys feel wonderful to play and the workflow/layout is a joy to use. The many of the sounds are as good as I’ve played in a stage piano and once I started playing, I couldn’t stop! 
I also have the YC61 and absolutely love these boards. 

[ElmerJFudd]

35 minutes ago, dickiefunk said:

I upgraded my old Roland RD300gx a few months ago ended up buying the CP88. I played the Nord Stage 3 at a couple of gigs a while back and whilst it’s a very capable board, I personally didn’t click with it. Also tried the new Roland RD88 and really didn’t like that at all! It felt like a cheap plastic budget keyboard. I then tried the CP88 and instantly loved it. The keys feel wonderful to play and the workflow/layout is a joy to use. The many of the sounds are as good as I’ve played in a stage piano and once I started playing, I couldn’t stop! 
I also have the YC61 and absolutely love these boards. 

Yes, RD88.  It was an eye raiser for price, weight, and PH4.   Not all PH4’s are equal apparently. 

[ElmerJFudd]

2 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

VPC1 was Kawai's best action at the time, before the MP11/11SE came out, which is the current top of line action (in something that is at least somewhat portable, i.e. not counting the actions of the high-end consoles which could not be put into something even only as portable as the 60-70ish pound boards we're talking about). And even that much weight was probably why Nord chose to have Kawai build them a variant of the MP7SE action, rather than the 11-series.

Your memory is better than mine on this, Scott. I vaguely remember the VPC1 coming out and thinking - why didn’t they stick their best action in it? I think there was a variation that was a step up, but maybe it came after.  
 

I also don’t know exactly how Nord/Kawai came to their agreement. But I do wish they’d work something out with Kurzweil as well.  

[AnotherScott]

Yeah, if I remember the timeline correctly, the MP10 had been their top of the line "portable" action board, then the VPC1 soundless controller came out which was basically the same action except they added the triple sensor (making it the new top of line), and then the even better MP11 came out, but the VPC1 has never been updated and remains their only soundless controller.

[ElmerJFudd]

1 hour ago, AnotherScott said:

Yeah, if I remember the timeline correctly, the MP10 had been their top of the line "portable" action board, then the VPC1 soundless controller came out which was basically the same action except they added the triple sensor (making it the new top of line), and then the even better MP11 came out, but the VPC1 has never been updated and remains their only soundless controller.

Also interesting was that Ravenworks Digital saw opportunity to tweak the VPC1… 

 

“These are the changes introduced by Ravencroft to the VPC1's RM3 Grand II action:

Sizing of Key Pin & Balance Rail Bushings
Addition of Quality Piano Key-End Felt
Custom Key Dip
Squaring, Spacing, & Leveling of Keys
Proprietary Precision Friction Analysis & Weight Placement Determination
Proprietary Bismuth Key Weighting Procedure
The Manufacturing of Our Bismuth Weights
Key Weight Installation Procedure”

 

I never had opportunity to play a VPC1 in shop, and definitely have never been near a Ravenscroft regulated model.  But piano man chuck has. 
 

 

 

[Fleer]

4 hours ago, dickiefunk said:

I upgraded my old Roland RD300gx a few months ago ended up buying the CP88. I played the Nord Stage 3 at a couple of gigs a while back and whilst it’s a very capable board, I personally didn’t click with it. Also tried the new Roland RD88 and really didn’t like that at all! It felt like a cheap plastic budget keyboard. I then tried the CP88 and instantly loved it. The keys feel wonderful to play and the workflow/layout is a joy to use. The many of the sounds are as good as I’ve played in a stage piano and once I started playing, I couldn’t stop! 

The other way around for me. Didn’t like the CP88 and immediately preferred the RD88 for its PH4 action, MainStage integration and, above all, those classic Roland sounds, thousands of them. 

[ElmerJFudd]

9 hours ago, Fleer said:

The other way around for me. Didn’t like the CP88 and immediately preferred the RD88 for its PH4 action, MainStage integration and, above all, those classic Roland sounds, thousands of them. 

That's interesting but not surprising, given the wide and varied preferences people have for actions.  Out of curiosity did you come up playing piano or organ?  As an adult, do you spend most of your time practicing on a grand piano, upright or digital keyboard?  

 

Does anyone know what the differences are in the PH4 Standard found in the RD88 and the PH4 Concert found on the RD800?  I prefer the PH4 Concert to the PHA-50 found in the RD2000.  

[octa]

I have a few weighted keyboards relevant to this thread. Probably ought to let a couple of them go.

 

FP10, I've had a few years, and it's a handy very low weight option to have, with PH4 "Standard" action I guess. Other than the occasional random clunky noise, it plays real well. Midi into Nord Stage 3 compact with this was very nice, but requires Kenton midi usb host or similar. 

 

VPC1, I've spent more time fixing than playing it, but it's my favorite action for practicing. It has a slip tape issue that keeps popping up and keys gradually start sticking and get worse over time. May have to Ravenscroft it myself. Haven't tried MP11se, would like to. Tried VPC1 with NS3 for awhile, and it didn't play along nicely. Velocity weirdness.

 

YC88, my main ride, since VPC1's out of commission currently. First impression was the action is heavy, but it's the fastest of the 3. I no longer have NS3c but YC88 does well with NS2, though the Yamaha CFX is as useful as any Nord offering. 

 

Had Nord Grand for awhile, and we didn't get along so well, but am curious to see how relatively recent firmware update with added velocity adjustments affected playability. 

 

As awesome as the YC88 is, I'm tempted to sell it and just use FP10 + Nord for live shows and VPC1 at home (once it's fixed), because FP10 is so easy to transport. But USB audio interface on YC88 will probably keep it around. Looking forward to Yamaha updating firmware on YC88, soon maybe.