Hammond SKX Pro

[stoken6]

5 hours ago, Stokely said:

What that video above tells me, and not something I didn't already know--in a live setting through a PA, especially a more rock setting, most things will work.  Both of those pianos sounded fine to me and I didn't see anyone leaving   Maybe that keyboard nerd in the back taking critical notes.

 

I was being a bit of a keyboard nerd when I listened to that video, and yes the Nord pianos sounded better than Hammonds.

 

A bit.

 

Not enough to stop me dancing. And not enough to distract me from the spectacular playing. Great work.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[AnotherScott]

On 8/9/2022 at 11:30 AM, KRK said:

OK, just for info...
 

Another "video on demand" 🤣

"but how does it sound with Ventilator?"

"but how does it sound with Burn?"

etc...

these are the typical questions that come to me in the comments on my videos ...

 

So, here is yet another useless video that makes us understand (if you listen with an adequate system or headphones) how things are .

Repetitive chords with the same settings in sequence, with the various simulators. The perception of how everything sounds different is immediate, with the same settings (more or less pronounced click, more or less "fake" percussion, more or less exalted chorus, etc.).

 

It's a nice demo, is it it yours?

 

One thing I noticed is that the volumes (or the balance between the organ and the drums) seems to vary a bit among the samples, making it more difficult to compare, but I can also see where balancing the volumes could be tricky because different ones could appear to be louder than others depending on the drawbar registration in use and where on the keyboard you were playing them.

[KRK]

On 8/11/2022 at 1:11 AM, AnotherScott said:

It's a nice demo, is it it yours?

 

One thing I noticed is that the volumes (or the balance between the organ and the drums) seems to vary a bit among the samples, making it more difficult to compare, but I can also see where balancing the volumes could be tricky because different ones could appear to be louder than others depending on the drawbar registration in use and where on the keyboard you were playing them.

thanks a lot for comment!
I NORMALIZED all organ tracks, so what you notice more or less should not be a matter of volume.
you are right, for each drawbars settings (more or less same settings in same order for all takes) all pedals (and plugin) react in different way, so it's not only the volume but 90% is from the different "fatness" of sound (no eq applied).

for example, the Vent is the one with more "body/fatness" (but, for my taste, the one with a "fake/artificial" rotary effect), etc.

 

 

[AnotherScott]

1 hour ago, KRK said:

thanks a lot for comment!
I NORMALIZED all organ tracks, so what you notice more or less should not be a matter of volume.

 

So the organ tracks were normalized, but the drum tracks were not (presumably because you know recorded them all at the same volume in the first place), right? That should have worked. It's interesting that I still hear such differences, like the snare seeming so much louder against the Hammond (example 1) than it is against the Vent version (example 2).

 

1 hour ago, KRK said:

 
you are right, for each drawbars settings (more or less same settings in same order for all takes) all pedals (and plugin) react in different way, so it's not only the volume but 90% is from the different "fatness" of sound (no eq applied).

for example, the Vent is the one with more "body/fatness" (but, for my taste, the one with a "fake/artificial" rotary effect), etc.

 

 

And that body/fatness essentially corresponds to more volume in particular frequency ranges relative to others, which then can also affect our overall perception of volume, and may affect the normalization's algorithms as well. So if you're saying volume is the same, I guess it must be something about the frequency range boosted by the Vent that is making the snare seem lower in comparison.

 

[KRK]

6 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

 

So the organ tracks were normalized, but the drum tracks were not (presumably because you know recorded them all at the same volume in the first place), right? That should have worked. It's interesting that I still hear such differences, like the snare seeming so much louder against the Hammond (example 1) than it is against the Vent version (example 2).

 

 

 

And that body/fatness essentially corresponds to more volume in particular frequency ranges relative to others, which then can also affect our overall perception of volume, and may affect the normalization's algorithms as well. So if you're saying volume is the same, I guess it must be something about the frequency range boosted by the Vent that is making the snare seem lower in comparison.

 

yes, correct!
drums track is exactly the same copied with same volume.
that was the aim of the comparison 👍

[KRK]

Sanremo, Italy. Teatro Ariston.

"Sanremo Rock" finals.

With my friends and SKX Pro.

 

Audio track derived from some stage monitors mono line or whatever...
So this is not the main mixer of PA. (the audience main audio had less organ, more drums and more bass ).

 

the rock'n'roll side of SKX Pro

[KRK]

To anyone who has a Hammond SKX PRO and would like to do the update.

Please still wait with the update... we are investigating something.

We will let you know when it's okay and save.

The Hammond Europe Team

 

(from a FB group)

[Losendoskeys]

On 9/14/2022 at 2:37 PM, KRK said:

To anyone who has a Hammond SKX PRO and would like to do the update.

Please still wait with the update... we are investigating something.

We will let you know when it's okay and save.

The Hammond Europe Team

 

(from a FB group)

Which version?

[Stokely]

So, perhaps I had heard wrong, or was thinking of an older model...can someone verify yea/nay on whether the drawbars send "regular" midi ccs, and not sysex (or nothing)?

I'm looking in the manual, page 617 under "Midi Implementation Chart", and it appears to me that it both can send and respond to midi ccs for the upper, which is what I would care about.  It lists the ccs as 12-20.

This would put it back on the prospective purchase pile (holy alliteration batman) as then I could easily use it to control software organs at home.  I'm not sure where I got the impression that it wouldn't send ccs from the drawbars.

Edit: The very next chart on 618 under "Midi Channels and Messages" doesnt have a "O" (yes) or "X" but it does have cc numbers under "upper keyboard".  I'm not sure if that means "yes" for those.   A bit confusing.   This is the manual I'm looking at btw:    https://hammondorganco.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/SK-PRO-Reference-Guide-E-112921s-r2.pdf

[octa]

Newest firmware is working well on my SK Pro 61. I think the FB poster later said it worked for him too.

 

"Midi Implementation Chart" on Pg. 198 says upper drawbars use CC 12-20. Lower and Pedal have CC too.

 

[Stokely]

Excellent.  This might seem like a minor thing but I didn't want to have to find a workaround.  If you have drawbars, it would be nice to use them in the studio!  I'm all "in the box" at home and would prefer to stick to midi and not record audio.

Now, if that mono synth was poly...I'd probably already own this.  I'm definitely considering it in any case.

[KRK]

On 9/14/2022 at 3:37 PM, KRK said:

To anyone who has a Hammond SKX PRO and would like to do the update.

Please still wait with the update... we are investigating something.

We will let you know when it's okay and save.

The Hammond Europe Team

 

(from a FB group)

yes, it was solved!
now it's ok 👍

[Jim Alfredson]

Just a quick note: Did a session today and the plan was to use the SK Pro through a Leslie 21h that's been converted to 2-speed. For whatever reason, the Leslie wasn't outputting much sound and what little sound was coming through the speakers was distorted. Looks like I'll need to rebuild that amp for the studio. 

Anyway, rather than go home and fetch one of my Leslies, we just tracked the SK Pro direct using the onboard Leslie sim. And it sounded great. Fit right in the mix (more of a pad role in all three tunes) and the engineer was thrilled.

[Mighty Motif Max]

After enough years on this forum I've jumped on the clonewheel wagon...thanks partly to this thread, I just picked up a used SK Pro 73. I've found myself using more and more B3 patches since getting the Fantom 7 with its VTW engine but a dedicated board fit the bill. Found a pretty nice deal so it was more worth it from my side.

[Jim Alfredson]

Since I get phone calls from random people about how to save favorites on the SK Pro series, I made a little video describing the process.
 

 

[HammondDave]

1 hour ago, Jim Alfredson said:

Since I get phone calls from random people about how to save favorites on the SK Pro series, I made a little video describing the process.
 

 

Jim… Thank you for doing this… but What a mess!  My question… Why? Can’t HS just do an OS update to make this feature easily usable? That was a 10+ minute video explaining something that should as a simple as a screenshot that saves the current instrument configuration to a favorite. Not picking on H/S as other MI manufacturers have crappy interfaces too… but really?

[AnotherScott]

Nice video. A few thoughts...

 

The thing you couldn't remember about what Korg calls their equivalent to the SK Pro's Combinations is that they are called Combis.

 

Something which people sometimes don't immediately understand about Combis, Performances, Multis, etc., is that while are typically used to save and recall combinations of multiple sounds (as implied by some of their very names, like Combi and Multi), they can also be used to save and recall just single sounds. And in fact, obviously, that's what you're doing in this very video... the two Combinations you created happen to only have one sound each, even though they can have up to four sounds each (well, more than four, if you also consider that a single Ensemble patch can have up to 4 sounds within it). So I think it can be worth pointing out that there's no reason a Combi/Multi/Combination must have more than a single sound in it, despite what the name might imply. There are numerous reasons one might want to create a single-sound "combination" on a given keyboard... and in this case, you're demonstrating one good reason... on the SK Pro, it's the only way to make it recallable via the Favorite function. But people shouldn't be thrown by the fact that a "combination" can have just a single sound in it, if that's all you need. You have the ability to combine sounds in it, but you don't need to, and that's not the only reason to use it.

 

The analogy to workstation-style architectures (Motif, Kronos, K2700) is reasonable, and you're right that the idea of a "sound hierarchy" probably makes more immediate sense to someone who comes to the Hammond from that world. But If that's where you're coming from, there's another possible initial confusion... All those boards (and many others) use the word "Record" to indicate a way to record what it is you're playing on the keys (e.g. when using an on-board sequencer). I think it was an unfortunate choice of words on Hammond's part, since AFAIK nobody else uses the word "record" as they do. So one of the first things someone needs to know about their new Hammond is that where the manual (and the button itself) says "Record," what it really means is "Save" or "Store." I remember when I first uses an earlier SK, before looking at the manual, I couldn't figure out how to save anything... I thought the Record button was for some kind of on-board performance recorder/sequencer (as it would have been on any other mfr's board that has ever had a Record button, AFAIK).

 

Lastly, some thoughts about this chart:

 

 

I don't see Favorites as part of the hierarchy... To me, the top level of the hierarchy is the Combination. A Favorite doesn't really "contain" a Combination, rather it is a "pointer" to a Combination (like a Mac alias or a Windows shortcut). Which means you can delete/replace a Favorite, and you're really not losing anything at all (unlike the other items in the hierarchy, which actually do have unique data).

 

I don't see Combinations as containing Allocations, I see them as containing Patches... but I see your perspective, the front panel says "Allocate" under those buttons. :-) But the things you're allocating are patches. So maybe it would be more clear if the chart said "Allocated Patches" rather than Allocations.

 

I'm not sure what P1, P2, and P3 indicate. But the way I would visualize it, the Organ patch/allocation contains one thing, as does Synth, while the Piano and Ensemble patches/allocation can contain up to four things (components).

 

I'm completely with you on not getting the relevance of bundles.

 

It's still my favorite clonewheel, but I really wish they could clean up the interface to make things more intuitive. I don't use it for nearly what it's capable of, just because the implementation is clumsy (and I'm lucky enough to have other boards that let me do those other things more easily). The funny thing is, some of the "deeper" editing is actually simpler than on many other boards, but they make some of what should be the "simpler" stuff more complicated! I don't even think the architecture is really the issue, so much as the way things are presented, which also makes it easier to do the wrong thing.

 

 

[Jim Alfredson]

1 hour ago, HammondDave said:

Jim… Thank you for doing this… but What a mess!  My question… Why? Can’t HS just do an OS update to make this feature easily usable? That was a 10+ minute video explaining something that should as a simple as a screenshot that saves the current instrument configuration to a favorite. Not picking on H/S as other MI manufacturers have crappy interfaces too… but really?

 

I understand HamSuz's reasoning here. I do think they would save a lot of headaches if they allowed individual patches to be saved as Favorites. Kurzweil does this. You can save a Quick Access pointer as either a Program (single patch) or Multi (multiple patches). And as AnotherScott details below your post, you're not really 'saving' a new sound when using Favorites, you're just saving a pointer to that sound.

 

1 hour ago, AnotherScott said:

I don't see Favorites as part of the hierarchy... To me, the top level of the hierarchy is the Combination. A Favorite doesn't really "contain" a Combination, rather it is a "pointer" to a Combination (like a Mac alias or a Windows shortcut). Which means you can delete/replace a Favorite, and you're really not losing anything at all (unlike the other items in the hierarchy, which actually do have unique data).

 

I agree but I think that would just add more confusion to the mix. A lot of users are not as technically minded as you or me. I was trying to explain things in as simple of a manner as I could. 

[AnotherScott]

45 minutes ago, Jim Alfredson said:

I do think they would save a lot of headaches if they allowed individual patches to be saved as Favorites. Kurzweil does this. You can save a Quick Access pointer as either a Program (single patch) or Multi (multiple patches).

Yes... Korg does the same thing in its Set List mode (Kronos/Nautilus) where the slots can point to either Programs or Combis; and IIRC they do the same with the Favorites buttons on the Kross, and Roland does the same on the Juno DS where Favorites can point to single Patches or combination Performances. The Motif series would similarly let you store pointers to either Voices (single patches) or Performances (combinations) in its Master Mode locations. Montage/MODX kind of does away with the distinction, but the end result remains that your Live Set slots equally easily have either single or multiple sounds associated with them, same with Scenes in the new Fantoms. So it's hardly an uncommon thing.

[AnotherScott]

I think I figured out why the idea of having the Hammond save individual patches (programs) as Favorites--a least the way you can on a Kurzweil/Kronos/Nautilus/Kross/Juno/Motif--is not trivial. All of those boards HAVE single-sound (Program/Patch/Voice) modes. So invoking a Favorite that switches you to that mode and plays that sound can't work on the Hammond because there is no single-sound "patch" mode to switch to. You're ALWAYS in a multi-sound mode, there are always instantly available sounds underneath the piano/ensemble/synth buttons, even if you're not using them.

 

There are other boards that have no single sound mode, and they address the issue in different ways. The Yamaha CP73/88 and YC61/73/88, and the Roland VR09/VR730, and the Nord Electro 6, the Numa Compacts, various Dexibells, Vox Continental, are similarly always in multi-sound mode. None of them have a Favorites (alias/shortcut/pointer) mechanism at all. But perhaps more relevant is that they maintain simplicity, in part, but not ALLOWING you to save individual edited patches, you can ONLY save their equivalents of Combinations, that's the only place your edited sounds can go. The good side of that is that there's no dichotomy between different kinds of user sounds to save. But there is also a drawback to this method. Since you can't save, for example, your favorite customized organ or piano sound as its own "single sound" outside the combination it is saved in, you cannot easily re-use that sound in another combination, either.

 

I can think of workarounds that could make a "favorite patch" function usable on the Hammond, or also just interface improvements that wouldn't change the way it works but would make it easier through prompts and clearer visuals. I don't think this is an insurmountable problem by any means. But they can't do it quite the way some of those other boards do.

[HammondDave]

You cats are so smart when it comes to programming and UI’s.  I learn so much from all of you. Thanks.

[Jim Alfredson]

6 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

I think I figured out why the idea of having the Hammond save individual patches (programs) as Favorites--a least the way you can on a Kurzweil/Kronos/Nautilus/Kross/Juno/Motif--is not trivial. All of those boards HAVE single-sound (Program/Patch/Voice) modes. So invoking a Favorite that switches you to that mode and plays that sound can't work on the Hammond because there is no single-sound "patch" mode to switch to. You're ALWAYS in a multi-sound mode, there are always instantly available sounds underneath the piano/ensemble/synth buttons, even if you're not using them.

 

 

Evidently you've never played a Kurzweil Forte / K2700 in PROGRAM mode via MIDI and switched channels on your MIDI controller.  Or just used the CHANNEL/LAYER/ZONE/TRACK up and down mode on the Kurzweil itself. 

 

But yes, the SK Pro is always in multitimbral mode, so it kinda makes sense. But it seems like you should be able to point a FAVORITE towards any patch or combination without much difficulty.

[Markmcb]

x

Hi all...I'm new here, and have a SK Pro 73( If there is a SK Pro area instead of this SKX...I don't know of it ).

After installing the new update, I now have a very strange screen. When pressing 'play', all is good. Hitting it a second time, showing the drawbars, is good.

But pressing it a third time I get a very strange screen.Every day it's the same. Any one else having this problem ?

[Jim Alfredson]

37 minutes ago, Markmcb said:

x

Hi all...I'm new here, and have a SK Pro 73( If there is a SK Pro area instead of this SKX...I don't know of it ).

After installing the new update, I now have a very strange screen. When pressing 'play', all is good. Hitting it a second time, showing the drawbars, is good.

But pressing it a third time I get a very strange screen.Every day it's the same. Any one else having this problem ?

 

 

Is it a problem? It's a new view they added to allow you to quickly see all your allocations / internal and external zone assignments. Pretty handy, imo.

[Markmcb]

Hey Jim...It's no problem...I thought it was something wrong with the software.I didn't realize it was intended.

Actually...you are right...it is handy .

Mucho Thanx !!

[AnotherScott]

 

4 hours ago, Jim Alfredson said:

Evidently you've never played a Kurzweil Forte / K2700 in PROGRAM mode via MIDI and switched channels on your MIDI controller.  Or just used the CHANNEL/LAYER/ZONE/TRACK up and down mode on the Kurzweil itself. 

 

I see how you can kinda equate those things to my saying that on the Hammond "there are always instantly available sounds underneath the piano/ensemble/synth buttons, even if you're not using them."  But obviously it's pretty different functionality, i.e. since the sounds underneath the piano/ensemble/synth/organ buttons are available for instant keyboard playability in any combination (and I think also on the same MIDI channel, for that matter). I think there are some possible complications that could arise from that...

 

4 hours ago, Jim Alfredson said:

But yes, the SK Pro is always in multitimbral mode, so it kinda makes sense. But it seems like you should be able to point a FAVORITE towards any patch or combination without much difficulty.

 

Having a Favorite able to point to a Patch (as opposed to only being able to point to a Combination) is only half the issue. (Though that itself could be a little complicated within the current interface, which seems to require using a knob to scroll through all the possible entries, which would be that much more cumbersome if entries could also include, for example, any of the up to 700 piano/ensemble Patches). The other half of the issue is the question of what's supposed to happen when you recall that favorite. I mean, if you're only loading a Patch and not a Combination, but the board is only capable of playing Combinations (no single-Patch playing mode), then some decision has to be made as to what the rest of the Combination settings should be (e.g. what's retained and what's changed after you use the Favorite button to load that Patch), in a way that, itself, doesn't create other confusions/complications (i.e. I can think of some ambiguities that could arise).

Interestingly, the Fantom/Fantom-0 is kind of similar. When you make a change to a Tone ( = hammond Patch) that's part of a Scene ( = hammond Combination), you must save the changed Tone before you can save it as part of a Scene. (And Scenes are what get recalled from within its version of Favorites.) While it's still not the most clear thing in the world, it's better than on the Hammond just because of the prompts. When you hit the Write button (equivalent to hammond Record), it asks you if you want to write the Tone or the Scene (among other options). If you attempt to write the Scene but haven't saved the Tone, it will warn you that, if you don't save your edited Tone first, those changes will be lost. My point being that I think maybe the complication here isn't just about having to save the Patch by itself in order to be able to subsequently recall it as part of a Combination/Favorite, but that it's at least as much that the interface for doing so is somewhat circuitous and unclear.

 

p.s. -- if it's possible to edit that video with any kind of audio insert or visual caption... at 5:55 you said "choose our new Patch" -- in the context of what we're talking about, it's really "choose our new Combination." You wish it were a Patch. :-) I know, it's probably a distinction between little-p patch and big-P Patch, but that's not clear since they're pronounced the same. ;-)

[dbk]

Has anyone hard-cased an SKX Pro? I'm looking for ideas to utilize the lower manual space for the expression/sustain pedals. Thought about a removable bridge/shelf that extends from each side that is supported either from the case or the organ end pieces. I had a case made with a separate side-storage compartment but it's too long for my tastes. Going to modify case length to just fit the organ. Would appreciate any case design knowledge out there.

Thanks,

Dave

 

 

 

[mate stubb]

Make a lightweight tray to sit over the keys, foam underneath and long enough to let the side panels take the weight.

[dbk]

8 hours ago, matted stump said:

Make a lightweight tray to sit over the keys, foam underneath and long enough to let the side panels take the weight.

 

Thanks. Good idea. A tray design would maintain some rigidity across the span and reduce sag. I was worried about the sag.

[RickTC]

I was told there are custom sounds available for the skx pro such as those by Hal Tsuchida. Does anyone know how I may purchase these custom Hammond organ sounds? Email me if you can.