On touch screens vs. physical switches, knobs, buttons, etc.

[ElmerJFudd]

We"re not the only ones that prefer tactile controls on our instruments during performance.

 

'The F-35 is the first to use touchscreen technology. Unlike switches, which take up permanent cockpit space, touchscreens allow the same LCD screen space to be instantly repurposed... But the problem with touchscreens, the pilot explains, is a lack of tactile feedback. Switches have a nice, satisfying click that instantaneously lets the user know they were successfully flipped... At present I am pressing the wrong part of the screen about 20 [percent] of the time in flight...'

 

https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/aviation/a35310375/f-35-pilot-reveals-truth-about-fighter-jet-cockpit/

[AnotherScott]

Even touchscreens for car stereo systems are a horrible idea. You can't operate them by feel, so they prompt you to take your eyes off the road.

[Coker]

I think they should complement hard switches and knobs. For example, on the MODX, the touchscreen is great for selecting programs from a 2-dimensional matrix that changes with each page of programs, while knobs and sliders work well for adjusting the sound levels.

[Stokely]

Not normally a huge fan of touchscreens, but the modx one is just big enough where it's user-friendly to me. As Coker says, some things are better suited than others for touchscreens--for example, naming patches is WAY faster for me with a touch screen alphabet.

 

I don't like anything where you have to drag or swipe. I once screwed up our band's mixer (a line 6 digital mixer that ONLY had a touch screen) by trying to swipe to a second page, it kept "catching" on controls and I accidentally screwed something up and didn't realize it. I was barred from mixer operations after that! Our replacement mixer, a QSC touchmix, has a nice combination of touchscreen and dedicated buttons, including one that always gets you back to the main screen (as does the Modx, hitting performance edit or any of the main buttons jumps you there).

[bill bosco]

my thing is , will this touch screen be working in 10 - 15 years ?

, or maybe i shouldn't be expecting to be still using the same keyboard in 10 - 15 years ?

anyway , i'm sure the A100 in my living room will still be playable .

God willing , i'll still be around to play it

[timwat]

Touchscreens are great when you need flexible access to multiple menus in a non-real-time setting. Real-time, divided-focus, mission critical kinds of applications need tactile controls.

 

Fascinating that aerospace engineers crossed that rubicon for military use. Commercial pilots, I can see. Combat? Hmmm....

[ElmerJFudd]

There definitely is something so very satisfying about a flip switch, toggle button, rocker switch, etc. Especially ones with a dedicated function. If it makes a click or snap even better. You"re unlikely to initiate in error, and even a miss hit is easily corrected. Touch screen is definitely useful, if the GUI is well thought out, easy to use for many tasks. But in timing critical situations like flying or playing for an audience - Organ with touch screen draw bars? A touch screen tap to do fast, slow and stop? For pitch bend? Maybe. But preferable to a mod wheel or ribbon strip?

[Docbop]

I'm starting to get into idea of touchscreens, but would like workstation companies to start using better touch technology the touchscreens in smartphones and tablets are way more responsive. I think large touchscreen with good designed interface (good visual feedback) can replace a lot of the physical buttons and less used sliders. Maybe even multiple screens so not so compact where one screen is the main control area and second screen whatever state user selected and the controls for it.

 

So better touchscreens, better interface design for state info, and maybe multiple screen then a set of physical controls that function changes based on the state selected on the touchscreens.

[drawback]

I don't have much problem with touch screen controls that can be tapped. The main issues I have are with virtual knobs that can be turned only if you hold your tongue right, and things like drawbars/faders that you can't grab and maybe/maybe not move. For those, I'd rather have tactile knobs (and I like ones that step-click to 10) and faders (can live with draw-buttons). A D9X would be cool.

[cp-the-nerd]

Booooo touch screen controls. Give me knobs and buttons and switches whether it's my keyboard or my car.

[CEB]

I don"t know any other way to be able to store and call up to 128 set list with each set list holding up to 128 patch setups in sequential performance order that is easily readable in low light conditions..... and you never have to swap banks and write over patch or performance locations. Switches won"t do that. I don"t miss antique Boomer keyboards. ð. (Except for the Hammond. That don"t count. ð )

[ProfD]

"At present I am pressing the wrong part of the screen about 20 [percent] of the time in flight...'

 

 

Houston, this could be a serious problem in combat. Put that pilot back in a F-15.

[ElmerJFudd]

I don"t know any other way to be able to store and call up to 128 set list with each set list holding up to 128 patch setups in sequential performance order that is easily readable in low light conditions..... and you never have to swap banks and write over patch or performance locations. Switches won"t do that. I don"t miss antique Boomer keyboards. ð. (Except for the Hammond. That don"t count. ð )

 

Hey, that"s what touch screens are for... great for designing the sounds, splits and layers, and making the set list. But I still would rather press a button, pedal or key - something to switch to the next setup. LOL those Boomer keyboards!

I like Sputnik and Apollo switches and buttons!

[The Real MC]

Touchscreens imply menus. I don't like menu diving. Give me a panel full of knobs/switches any day.

[zukskywalker]

'Antique boomer keyboards' ouch

 

I was about to mention haptics but still not the same.

However I"m loving some ifretless bass...knobs and switches not necessary there.

[AnotherScott]

Touchscreens are great for patch selection, because the names of the sounds are the buttons to invoke them. And for those functions that MUST have menus, navigating by touch is at least better then arrow keys.

[ElmerJFudd]

Oh shit. That"s not the debate at all. Traditional screens with buttons and menus sucked.

Touch screens are way better than that scenario for everything you use a screen for.

But for playing. Pulling in a partial, flipping on the distortion, turning off the delay, ratcheting up the phaser, sweeping the HPF cutoff in performance. That"s where tactile controls are preferable.

[AnotherScott]

Right, each has its place. But some people seemed to be poo-pooing the presence of touchscreens on boards at all.

[Threadslayer]

"At present I am pressing the wrong part of the screen about 20 [percent] of the time in flight...'

 

 

 

Houston, this could be a serious problem in combat. Put that pilot back in a F-15.

That won't do it. The new ones the Air Force is buying have glass cockpits.

[EricBarker]

My problem with Car stereos is that the buttons have ALWAYS BEEN HORRIBLE. Tiny, multi-functioned, contextual interfaces that are completely counter intuitive. If anything, the larger touch screens have made things easier with less time eyes off the road. But that's not the fault of tactile interfaces as a whole, just poor design decisions.

[stoken6]

I like what my car has done - hard controls for all mission-critical features like heating/aircon/demist, stereo on/off/volume etc. Touch for stuff which is rarely used (stereo balance, tyre pressure indication, bluetooth setup).

 

I read about a driver who struggled to adjust the wiper speed. In his Tesla. On the touchscreen. He was fined and banned for a month.

 

On the plus-side, I remember loving my first encounter with a keyboard-with-a-touchscreen, which I think was a Korg Trinity. So intuitive to select patches.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[Dr Mike Metlay]

For people who think about this stuff obsessively, there is an entire book about this and other topics relating to music technology and human interaction:

 

PUSH TURN MOVE

 

This was the book I had always wanted to write, and had been gathering ideas for since the early 1980s. Kim Bjørn did a better job than I ever would, and I consider it an honor to have helped him get it out the door. At $75 and over 350 pages, it's not for the faint of heart, but DAMN is it a fun read!

[David Emm]

My experience so far has been that my big ol' piano hands overshoot touchscreen targets like a proverbial bitch. Hit 3 buttons at once? Move 2 sliders instead of one? Try to turn a v-knob that either jumps wildly or ignores you? Gotcha covered! The size I need pushes both price & current music-app practicality out of range. I can't see wearing a stylus around my neck in a bid to peck my way to tech-happiness.

 

My vote would be for more designs like that of the Waldorf Quantum, a slick touch-screen-with-side-knobs affair. Its a best of both for my workflow dreams.

 

Meanwhile, I'm a defiant wired mouse and old-school keyboard user. Its been grab-&-go for years, so I'll wait out the next leap that meets my personal terms. I won't hold my breath too much. Its not always a serious flaw in the base design. Sometimes its simply the awkward new muscle memory you have to develop and the wad of required connection accessories that craters the idea for some of us.

[Bif_]

This topic explains why I enjoy using synths in my Ipad much less than my enjoyment of the sound they produce. I'm amazed at the sound but just don't get along with the touch-screen interface.

[AnotherScott]

This topic explains why I enjoy using synths in my Ipad much less than my enjoyment of the sound they produce. I'm amazed at the sound but just don't get along with the touch-screen interface.

The touchscreen interface is still better than the traditional mouse-and-keyboard manipulation of a VST! But I think maybe the key to really appreciating either is to run them from a board that has lots of mappable controls. That's the clever thing about Omnisphere, that they've mapped so much hardware already.

[jazzpiano88]

.

[allan_evett]

I think they should complement hard switches and knobs. For example, on the MODX, the touchscreen is great for selecting programs from a 2-dimensional matrix that changes with each page of programs, while knobs and sliders work well for adjusting the sound levels.

 

The MODX continues that balance well, right down to its deeper editing functions. I also like the touchscreen - physical control balance in the new Fantom. That instrument's physical switch interface is clearly presented and fairly intuitive. The sub menu functions, especially in the pad interface, do have a learning curve; those are not tough to grasp though. And the touchscreen - tactile contol balance in the deeper synth editing menus is a thing of beauty.

 

I've tried using software instrument apps several times, using an iPad Air 2 as a sound module. The variety of instruments available and general sound quality is excellent, but for live use multiple on-the-fly adjustments were generally difficult. The Galileo app sounded great, but trying to use the touchscreen drawbars was a disaster. However, I did use a Jupiter-50 as the controller - which had few physical controls for MIDI (though it was an extensive 4-zone MIDI conroller). So using Galileo (or similar) live would be greatly improved with a multi-button/knob/slider controller; but then we're back to physical switches...

 

Seems a balance of touchscreen and physical control should be sought across many platforms; especially so with vehicles for transport and military functions.

[pjd]

One thing to consider â

 

Do you play your keyboard wearing nomex gloves?

 

All the best â pj

 

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