Kurzweil releases PC4-7 and SP6-7

[kenheeter]

Will the PC4-7 USB carry audio as well as midi? I love the one cable connection between my YC61 and my iPad. I hope this keyboard will do that as well. Thanks, Ken

[jarrell]

The PC4 and PC4-7 do not support USB audio - for that you need the K2700, where it is touted as a new feature.

[kenheeter]

OK, thanks for the quick reply.

[kenheeter]

Guess I'll have to wait for the K2700-7!

[Jaspla]

(1) is the action light enough for synth / organ playing?

(2) is it "all right" for pop piano parts?

(1) yes

(2) yes... I'd even say better than "all right," it's one of the better piano actions I've played, as non-hammer actions go. Though the resistance does increaese toward the reat of the keys.

 

I would agree with AnotherScott on both items 1) and 2) - well said. I have both the PC4 and PC4-7. I need two boards that can have the same programs. (My last 'pair' were a couple of PX-5s's).

I acquired the PC4 first, and found the key action faster, and more to my liking than the PX-5s. The PC4-7 action with semi-weighted keys is even faster, and for use with Acoustic Piano, appears to be best with Heavy(ier) Global velocity and Pressure settings. Being originally an Acoustic/Rhodes player, I'm pretty sure I can work into using the PC4-7 comfortably for most 'compact' gigs - solo cafe, restaurant, jams, etc.

[Fleer]

So those Medeli actions are pretty good after all

[stoken6]

Guess I'll have to wait for the K2700-7!

Here's hoping. Kurzweil seemed to have received the 7x memo, and a 2700-7 would be a really nice premium board.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[Synthaholic]

I"m having a hard time finding the appropriate injection-molded case for the PC4-7. The 14.07" width rules out a ton of cases by many manufacturers that only go to 13.50" interior. I"m not even sure if the cases that are 14.50" wide will work - it would be tight. And I don"t want to spend $450 on a case. I found this Plano (54" x 15" x 6.4") for $230, but I"m not sure if it"s decent quality. I don"t need to fly with it, but I do need to lay it across my Rock n Roller cart and put a spacestation on top of it.

 

https://www.amazon.com/Plano-Locker-Element-Accents-Double/dp/B08JHFTXWQ

 

Edit to add: this is the SKB case that would seem perfect, but it"s 14.50" (50.50" x 14.50" x 6.00"). That may be too tight to get any effective padding. May cause an issue closing the lid all the way, too. I don"t know.

 

https://skbstore.com/product/skb-iseries-5014-6-case/

 

 

The PC4-7 is listed on Sweetwater as 46.54" x 14.07" x 4.24"

[Synthaholic]

I"m surprised and a bit disappointed that there are so many 10+ year old sounds in this PC4-7. It"s still missing so much. No country pianos or guitars (like a Johnny Cash 'Folsom Prison Blues" type of 1950s guitar, or a clean lead suitable for songs like Larry Carlton"s 'Sleepwalk" or George Benson"s 'Breezin" '), no selection of fiddles as opposed to pristine violins, and also, they left out a lot of useful drum kits (if they are just going to re-use PC3 sounds). Granted, I"ve only had it since Saturday, but I can"t find drum kits for big band/Sinatra songs, 60s Motown/R&B, and only a few "normal" kits. There are a ton of weird kits I"ll never use, though.

 

But I like the action. It"s a bit noisy in a quiet room, but it feels fine. And the German D piano is very nice. I"m hoping it sounds good through the Spacestation. And it"s a top-notch MIDI controller. So, pluses and minuses.

[Synthaholic]

I"m having a hard time finding the appropriate injection-molded case for the PC4-7. The 14.07" width rules out a ton of cases by many manufacturers that only go to 13.50" interior. I"m not even sure if the cases that are 14.50" wide will work - it would be tight. And I don"t want to spend $450 on a case. I found this Plano (54" x 15" x 6.4") for $230, but I"m not sure if it"s decent quality. I don"t need to fly with it, but I do need to lay it across my Rock n Roller cart and put a spacestation on top of it.

 

https://www.amazon.com/Plano-Locker-Element-Accents-Double/dp/B08JHFTXWQ

 

Edit to add: this is the SKB case that would seem perfect, but it"s 14.50" (50.50" x 14.50" x 6.00"). That may be too tight to get any effective padding. May cause an issue closing the lid all the way, too. I don"t know.

 

https://skbstore.com/product/skb-iseries-5014-6-case/

 

 

The PC4-7 is listed on Sweetwater as 46.54" x 14.07" x 4.24"

 

Here"s a 50.50"L x 19.75"W x 5.00"H Roto Mold case from SKB for $309:

 

https://skbstore.com/product/low-profile-roto-mold-case-with-wheels-1skb-r5220w/

 

And this 54' x 15' x 6.4' case from Bass Pro Shops:

 

https://www.basspro.com/shop/en/cabelas-double-rifle-case

 

 

I brought my PC4-7 to the store and tried it out. They had to remove both layers of bottom foam in order to close the lid, but if you can find thin enough bottom foam it"s built solid for $199. The width is very tight so you would need that thin foam for that also. Strictly for those who baby it, but still want solid case protection.

[Synthaholic]

This 47.00" x 19.00" x 8.00" case for $299 is a contender but the 47" makes the length very tight. OTOH, the ends generally don"t take the same abuse. I never stand my cases on their ends.

 

https://skbstore.com/product/skb-iseries-4719-8b-case/

[Mighty Motif Max]

I"m surprised and a bit disappointed that there are so many 10+ year old sounds in this PC4-7. It"s still missing so much. No country pianos or guitars (like a Johnny Cash 'Folsom Prison Blues" type of 1950s guitar, or a clean lead suitable for songs like Larry Carlton"s 'Sleepwalk" or George Benson"s 'Breezin" '), no selection of fiddles as opposed to pristine violins, and also, they left out a lot of useful drum kits (if they are just going to re-use PC3 sounds). Granted, I"ve only had it since Saturday, but I can"t find drum kits for big band/Sinatra songs, 60s Motown/R&B, and only a few "normal" kits. There are a ton of weird kits I"ll never use, though.

 

But I like the action. It"s a bit noisy in a quiet room, but it feels fine. And the German D piano is very nice. I"m hoping it sounds good through the Spacestation. And it"s a top-notch MIDI controller. So, pluses and minuses.

 

Agreed about the drumkits - though you can load any missing PC3/Kore64 programs in if there was a certain one you liked. Good fiddles on a keyboard are very difficult to find. What type of piano sound do you quantify as a country piano? It seems to me that you might be able to get something you like if you start with the 7' Yamaha sample and change some EQ and effects. That one sounds closer to an upright and is somewhat naturally detuned.

 

Guitars (and pads and basses), as I noted in the regular PC4 thread, are definitely a weak point. However, I was able to significantly improve the electric guitars in the PC4 by adding the Purgatory Creek adaptation of the Jensen Guitar Collection sampleset (Jensen seems to be gone, but the soundset is still available from Purgatory Creek). The best part is that it's free too. https://www.purgatorycreek.com/index.php/jensen-guitar-collection-forte/ See if there's anything there that suits you. The acoustic Framus guitar and Nylon aren't bad either.

[Synthaholic]

I"m now thinking I may be able to get away with a semi-rigid case, since injection-molded isn"t available at a decent size/price. I had forgotten that I had followed the lead of @MoodyBluesKeys and had my Rock 'n Roller cart extended at the metal fabricators. So I may be able to fit both the keyboard case and the Spacestation on it fully extended.

[Synthaholic]

I"m surprised and a bit disappointed that there are so many 10+ year old sounds in this PC4-7. It"s still missing so much. No country pianos or guitars (like a Johnny Cash 'Folsom Prison Blues" type of 1950s guitar, or a clean lead suitable for songs like Larry Carlton"s 'Sleepwalk" or George Benson"s 'Breezin" '), no selection of fiddles as opposed to pristine violins, and also, they left out a lot of useful drum kits (if they are just going to re-use PC3 sounds). Granted, I"ve only had it since Saturday, but I can"t find drum kits for big band/Sinatra songs, 60s Motown/R&B, and only a few "normal" kits. There are a ton of weird kits I"ll never use, though.

 

But I like the action. It"s a bit noisy in a quiet room, but it feels fine. And the German D piano is very nice. I"m hoping it sounds good through the Spacestation. And it"s a top-notch MIDI controller. So, pluses and minuses.

 

Agreed about the drumkits - though you can load any missing PC3/Kore64 programs in if there was a certain one you liked. Good fiddles on a keyboard are very difficult to find. What type of piano sound do you quantify as a country piano? It seems to me that you might be able to get something you like if you start with the 7' Yamaha sample and change some EQ and effects. That one sounds closer to an upright and is somewhat naturally detuned.

 

Guitars (and pads and basses), as I noted in the regular PC4 thread, are definitely a weak point. However, I was able to significantly improve the electric guitars in the PC4 by adding the Purgatory Creek adaptation of the Jensen Guitar Collection sampleset (Jensen seems to be gone, but the soundset is still available from Purgatory Creek). The best part is that it's free too. https://www.purgatorycreek.com/index.php/jensen-guitar-collection-forte/ See if there's anything there that suits you. The acoustic Framus guitar and Nylon aren't bad either.

 

Good info - thanks for the link. Where would I find those PC3/Kore programs? My PC3 died years ago.

[AnotherScott]

Scott, loving your insight here. How would you compare the keys on the PC4-7 compared to say, the Nord Electro/Stage SW range? Is it lighter, springier, or heavier?

Sorry, I think I missed this post first time around! The PC4-7 feels less heavily sprung than the Nord Electro/Stage SWs, I prefer the feel of the Kurz. Unfortunately the Kurz isn't as even front-to-back as the Nord is, though it's not as bad as some others, and is also partially ameliorated by the fact that the keys are slightly longer to begin with.

 

t looks like the PC4-7 keys have a bottom part to them (like piano keys), as opposed to my MODX-7, which like most synth/"semi-weighted" actions has nothing underneath them. How does that add to the feel?

I don't know how that shape (or the accompanying added mass) affects the feel per se, but as a whole, I prefer the feel of the PC4-7 keys to those of the MODX.

 

On another topic (and what brought be back to this thread), I'm looking at PC4-7 pairings.

 

If the PC4-7 is on top, I'd probably either put it above a Casio 88 for a nice feeling but lightweight hammer action, with a shallow control surface that keeps the two boards close, or a Vox Continental 73 for a lighter weight bottom board that I still find pretty acceptable for piano playing. (And I'm vasciallating about which action I actually prefer for piano, the Kurz or the Vox.) As I've posted before, if I've got the Vox on bottom, I set it up so that most of its controls are covered, so I still get the two boards close together. One other possibility is one of the Numa Compacts, I think that could be a good choice for someone who wants the light weight but doesn't want to spend Vox money on their other board, though the Vox action is nicer.

 

If the PC 4-7 is on bottom, it likely would also be the board of choice for many things you might otherwise go to a top board for. With the board being so capable that it can handle just about anything, the role of the second board is a bit less defined than it would be over a typical piano-centric bottom board. Backup, obviously. Also, just being able to get to some other sound (with one hand or the other) without disturbing what you've got set up on the Kurz or having to rely so much on pre-programmed splits. But where else could it add something that specifically complements the PC4-7? So I'm thinking of these as some good choices that provide something the Kurz does not...

 

... Hammond SK Pro or Nord Stage 3 if you want better organ and knobby VA synth (mono on the Hammond, poly on the Nord)

... Roland AX-Edge if you like the idea of strapping on the keytar now and then, plus it's also an especially light 2nd board to bring, at under 10 lbs

 

Those boards are also reasonably adept as MIDI controllers, so you should be able to use their own patch select buttons to call up, not just their own sounds, but PC4-7 sounds you'd then also be able to play from the second board. Another possibility for me would be the Yamaha MODX7, which I think is the lightest 7x-key board that is well-suited for LH bass as well as integrating external sounds over MIDI. (The Juno DS-76 is lighter, and a good LH bass board, but I'd find the MODX to be a better choice for its MIDI functions, touchscreen patch selection, and a stronger sound set of its own. Though I also increasingly look at integrating an iPad/iPhone which could provide additional sounds and multi-board patch selection and multi-board key routing, which can reduce the need for some of this in the boards themselves.

[AnotherScott]

Another interesting top board possiblity for the PC4-7... the Korg Microstation. 5.73 lbs for an extra 5 octaves of (mini) keys that can be used to play its own sounds or other PC4 sounds... the Microstation has good MIDI functionality and good patch selection facilities for choosing both internal and external sounds. And it serves as emergency backup to play on its own if need be (or play sounds from an iPhone or whatever). That might be the lightest "do everything" 2 board rig possible, (since for me, a do-everything means having a bigger-than-61 piano-acceptable action, aftertouch, 9-drawbar control, but also two boards to minimize dealing with splits and to have backup). I'm going to try to play with this some and see how it feels. But I might be tempted to go up to the AX-Edge anyway. About 4 lbs heavier and an octave shorter, but full size keys, more aftertouch, the zencore possibilities, and, well, it's a keytar. Though a while back I did buy a little set of plates to attach a guitar strap that, along with some kind of battery pack, could let me turn the Microstation into a Keytar. The attachment was made for ukeleles. We'll see, one of these days...

[ChazKeys]

I am getting closer to the idea of an SP6-7 when I checked Thomann's prices. Can any forumites explain this? Swayed by comments on this thread I was thinking the SP6-7 is the one. I am not sold on cheap weighted actions and the semi-weighted action on the SP6-7 seems to get the thumbs up. It's going to be used mainly for EPs, organ and synths. Home use only, not for gigs, so size is not an issue. So which one would you buy assuming this is not a misprint.

[Fleer]

The SP6-7 is newer but I"d definitely take the SP6 (88).

Both have Medeli actions, both have been criticized for being noisy, but I like the 88 action (in the PC4).

[ChazKeys]

Thanks for the reply.

 

One more thing to confirm: as the SP6 doesn't have sample RAM I guess you can't add Purgatory Creek libraries? That would require a PC-4 or Forte if I want those sample sets?

[Fleer]

I"m afraid so.

[Tom Williams]

The SP6-7 is newer but I"d definitely take the SP6 (88).

Both have Medeli actions, both have been criticized for being noisy, but I like the 88 action (in the PC4).

BTW, now that I've had the PC4-7 for a couple of weeks, I'm absolutely loving the action, at least for Piano and organ playing. Haven't done enough with it yet to evaluate the AT for guitars and synths.

[3rdAct]

The SP6-7 is newer but I"d definitely take the SP6 (88).

Both have Medeli actions, both have been criticized for being noisy, but I like the 88 action (in the PC4).

BTW, now that I've had the PC4-7 for a couple of weeks, I'm absolutely loving the action, at least for Piano and organ playing. Haven't done enough with it yet to evaluate the AT for guitars and synths.

I also just received my PC4-7 a couple of weeks ago -- supply chain must have opened up then. And I too am enjoying the action for playing piano, more than I expected, actually. I find it much better than the Electro 5D for piano playing. It seems to be good for organ too, but, since it doesn't have waterfall keys, it takes a little adjustment for palm smears and the like

[Werno]

I"m surprised and a bit disappointed that there are so many 10+ year old sounds in this PC4-7. It"s still missing so much. No country pianos or guitars (like a Johnny Cash 'Folsom Prison Blues" type of 1950s guitar, or a clean lead suitable for songs like Larry Carlton"s 'Sleepwalk" or George Benson"s 'Breezin" '), no selection of fiddles as opposed to pristine violins, and also, they left out a lot of useful drum kits (if they are just going to re-use PC3 sounds). Granted, I"ve only had it since Saturday, but I can"t find drum kits for big band/Sinatra songs, 60s Motown/R&B, and only a few "normal" kits. There are a ton of weird kits I"ll never use, though.

 

Agreed about the drumkits - though you can load any missing PC3/Kore64 programs in if there was a certain one you liked. Good fiddles on a keyboard are very difficult to find. What type of piano sound do you quantify as a country piano? It seems to me that you might be able to get something you like if you start with the 7' Yamaha sample and change some EQ and effects. That one sounds closer to an upright and is somewhat naturally detuned.

 

Good info - thanks for the link. Where would I find those PC3/Kore programs? My PC3 died years ago.

 

For legacy PC etc. legacy sounds, go to the Kurzweil site and download the current update file for the PC series, which includes an 'objects' file. That'll have the programs, copy it to a flash drive and load whatever you like. Try the Forte SE files too, those will support some more recent samples and features like the 'string resonance' on the pianos. My SP6 loads these fine, I believe the PC4s have all the samples from the Kore64 and ForteSE, not sure if the larger Forte samples are on board.

[hipogrito]

PC4, SP6, PC4 SE and Forte SE have all the same 2 GB of factory samples and yes, that includes all the PC3-family samples including Kore64 plus a selection from the Forte samples. K2700 adds more samples from the Forte to that 2 GB base to basically have most (if not all) the Forte instruments with the exception that the large pianos are somewhat reduced in different ways but still pretty large.

 

Fran

[pawelsz]

Do you see any reasons to pick up SP6-7 instead of PC4-7 if the price difference in no concern? Or is PC4-7 just better in every way? 

 

I could imagine that maybe monochrome display on SP6-7 is easier to read in unfavorable lighting? I can see that some small text that appears on the color display of PC4-7 is very small font. Letters on SP6-7 display are relatively bigger but the display is smaller.

Somebody wrote that the placement of Variation button above volume slider isn't very convenient because you may unintentionally move the volume slider even all the way up while reaching that button. PC4SE has that button moved below towards the keybed as well as SP6(-7) has.

 

Any other ides? 

[AnotherScott]

I see three SP6-7  (non-price) advantages over PC4-7:

 

* although there are only 5 of them, the placement of the 5 Favorite buttons is very convenient

*  there's a lot of free panel space, for example, to place a Roland Boutique module or whatever right on the keyboard

* It's almost 2 lbs lighter at about 17.5 lbs

 

Of course, the list of PC4 advantages is much, much bigger.

 

Also, I doubt anything is more readable on the SP6 screen. Even *if* something is smaller on PC4 (I don't know), it has sharper, more readable, less jagged characters. (Plus, probably most of the "small print" parameters on the PC4 are things that don't exist at all on the SP6.)

[stoken6]

I recall that the PC4-7 can act as a USB host for a MIDI controller (receive only). This is not mentioned in the PC4-7 manual, but was confirmed on this forum.

 

Does anyone know if the SP6-7 can do the same?

 

Cheers, Mike.

[MidiDoctor]

Can anybody tell me how the PC 4–7 action compares to the PC 3–76 semi-weighted note action. The PC 3-76 semi-weighted action was just stiff and uncomfortable to play. It left me with such a bad taste for semi-weighted actions that I am really hesitant about buying the PC 4–7. I have heard that the Mideli semi-weighted action is a much better action. 

[AnotherScott]

7 hours ago, MidiDoctor said:

Can anybody tell me how the PC 4–7 action compares to the PC 3–76 semi-weighted note action. The PC 3-76 semi-weighted action was just stiff and uncomfortable to play. It left me with such a bad taste for semi-weighted actions that I am really hesitant about buying the PC 4–7. I have heard that the Mideli semi-weighted action is a much better action. 

PC4-7 action does not push back as much as PC3 action did (an action which I had in my Artis 7), though it is less even from front to back. Overall, I prefer the PC4-7 action by a substantial margin... but I swapped my Artis 7 springs for lighter ones, and at that point, I'd say that was the preferable action. But compared to the stock version of the action, yeah, I'd take the PC4-7, I find it quite playable.

[Fleer]

Those Medeli actions sure come out good.