Roland Zenology / Zenology Pro, rethinks cloud pricing

[RABid]

Never had the authorization error. Still on the free year I got when I bought the MC-101. What I do wish is that it was easier to move sounds from the computer to the Zen comparable hardware. It would help if they came out with an editor for the MC-101/707 like they did for the Jupiter Xm.

[AnotherScott]

I think the value would be in downloading and exporting to a Zen compatible keyboard.

Yes... from a gigging perspective, using it as a source of new tones that can be loaded into your keyboard (and possibly also as an editor for that keyboard's tones) would seem to be where the main value is.

[AnotherScott]

Lifetime keys are a good step, but the lack of an offline mode is unappealing.

So I'd have to be connected to the internet during a live gig?

I think that, if you purchase a Lifetime Key for an expansion that gets loaded INTO your Roland hardware (RD88, AX-Edge, whatever), that should be there no matter what. I don't think there's any "time out" inside the keyboard that will prevent sounds from working until you reactivate them. Nicely, you can buy these Lifetime Keys even with the free Cloud membership.

 

I think the value would be in downloading and exporting to a Zen compatible keyboard. I had hoped that Zenology would provide me a good PC-based editor for my AX-Edge, but now it turns out that the full editor (and that's just for individual voices) is over $200 per year.

It is irritating to have to pay just to use an editor, in that you only need to do it because Roland's free editor for the AX-Edge is so lame. Though as ChazKeys said, you can apparently get this function for $9.99/month, and so only pay for it in those months that you want to do a bunch of editing.

[GovernorSilver]

LOL, no you don't have to be logged online to use any sounds you got off of Roland Cloud.

 

The MC-707/MC-101 does not have WIFI or anything. They won't even let you import sounds from Roland Cloud by USB cable. You have to physically insert an SD card into a computer running Roland Cloud, download the sound packs/presets that you want into the SD card, then physically remove the card and put it back into your Roland hardware... THEN you can use your new sounds.

 

Despite my free Roland Cloud Pro membership being now expired. I can still download sound packs - for which I own Lifetime Keys - and use them in my Roland hardware.

 

I grabbed as many free Lifetime Keys as I could while I still had the membership. However, Roland has continued releasing new Sound Packs. I don't need the Pro membership, so I'm content to pay 99 cents per Sound Pack Lifetime Key. I think about a buck per pack is still a good deal, and studying how the presets were made teaches me about as much as if I paid for one of those online synthesis courses... for much less cost.

[zephonic]

So I just got a maxed out new MBP (M1Max|64GB|4TB) and trying to decide whether to buy lifetime keys for the XV5080 and maybe Zenology Pro, or go with the Ultimate subscription at $200 p/y? Any input is welcome!

 

Good news is most of their stuff has been updated to work natively on Apple Silicon. Once Korg updates the Triton plugin to native AS, those two would make a solid live rig for flyaway gigs. There's something about rompler sounds that just cuts through better than most VI's.

 

I also have Fantom 07 incoming which I understand can also host Cloud stuff onboard.

 

[Fleer]

3 hours ago, zephonic said:

So I just got a maxed out new MBP (M1Max|64GB|4TB) and trying to decide whether to buy lifetime keys for the XV5080 and maybe Zenology Pro, or go with the Ultimate subscription at $200 p/y? Any input is welcome!

 

Good news is most of their stuff has been updated to work natively on Apple Silicon. Once Korg updates the Triton plugin to native AS, those two would make a solid live rig for flyaway gigs. There's something about rompler sounds that just cuts through better than most VI's.

 

I also have Fantom 07 incoming which I understand can also host Cloud stuff onboard.

 

Got the same MBP. Didn’t max out to 8TB as I guess 4 will hold my most used libs. Got a free year of Zenology Pro with my RD-88. Perfect integration with MainStage. 

[zephonic]

Free is nice. I'm just trying to decide whether to buy a lifetime key or go for the subscription.

[GovernorSilver]

I had the free year of Pro subscription with my MC-101 purchase.

 

I and other users have found that whatever keys you got during your subscription, does indeed stay in your possession after the subscription expires.  

 

If you can't get a free subscription, then it might still be worth the $200 for one year if you intend to buy more than one Model Expansion.  I've looked at a couple of them - they seem to be priced at $149 each for a lifetime key.

 

[ProfD]

On 1/6/2022 at 1:34 PM, GovernorSilver said:

You have to physically insert an SD card into a computer running Roland Cloud, download the sound packs/presets that you want into the SD card, then physically remove the card and put it back into your Roland hardware... THEN you can use your new sounds.

This was standard fare back in the days of samplers, floppy disks and SCSI drives. 😁

 

In fact, the hardware was dumb until a floppy disk was inserted to load the OS (operating system).  Flash memory was a game changer.🤣😎

[RABid]

My free subscription ran out. I had not used it in a few months and am debating on reinlisting. One big difference is I now own the Jupiter Xm so it is my source for Jupiter sounds. For now I am holding off. Tried to get into ZenBeats but it is not quite there for me.

[RABid]

I've been wondering if I am missing something or if the sound import process is really this convulated. On the MC-707, while I can save a sound pack to SD on the computer, when I put it in the MC I have to load a single patch, then save that patch to internal memory. One patch at a time. I have not found a good way to browse and manage entire packs of sounds. Anyone have some tips?

[ElmerJFudd]

v2.0 

 

• Over 4000 tones and 200 drum kits, easily expandable to over 10,000 total selections
• Compatible with Sound Packs and Wave Expansions available on Roland Cloud
• Advanced tone browser to explore sounds, tag favorites, and create custom banks
• Powerful synth architecture with up to four partials per tone, each with flexible oscillator, filter, amplifier, dual LFOs and equalizer
• Layer multiple synthesis types including advanced virtual analog and modern PCM
• Four oscillators with nine virtual analog waveforms, Supersaw, noise, PCM, and PCM SYNC
• Includes 1840 PCM waveforms, easily expandable to over 7000
• Ten filter types, including JUPITER and other iconic models
• Eleven LFO shapes, including tempo-synced Step LFOs with 37 curves per step
• Over 90 lush Roland effects, including pristine reverbs, JUNO-106 and CE-1 choruses, SDD-320 Dimension D, and DJ-FX Looper
• Modern resizable user interface for smooth workflow in any production environment
• Edit and share sounds between ZENOLOGY and ZEN-Core hardware like FANTOM, JUPITER-X, JUNO-X, RD-88, MC-101, MC-707, and others

[AnotherScott]

I wonder if they added the ability to change patches via MIDI Program Change. Without that, I think you can't even think about using it "standalone" in a live environment, you'd have to host it inside something like Gig Performer. GP is great, but I've always thought of needing it if you're running multiple VSTs, and you wouldn't bother if you're just running one. But that won't really work if the one you're running gives you no way to change patches from your keyboard.

[konaboy]

amazing, they fixed my two major gripes, a roland synth lacking reverb, and controls you could barely see.

nice job roland!

[Fleer]

I wonder what this means for my RD88. 

[ElmerJFudd]

2 hours ago, Fleer said:

I wonder what this means for my RD88. 

"If you own Zen-Core hardware, meanwhile, the good news is that sounds are exchangeable between that and Zenology Pro. Current Zen-Core offerings include the Fantom and Jupiter-X ranges, Juno-X, RD-88, MC-101, MC-707 and more."

[RABid]

Strange the RD-88 is Zen Core but the RD-2000 is not. The RD-2000 does have the option to load the V-Piano expansion which is very nice.

[AnotherScott]

7 minutes ago, RABid said:

Strange the RD-88 is Zen Core but the RD-2000 is not. 

 

...probably simply because the RD-2000 is older, i.e. it was designed before Roland had developed and started designing all their new boards around their new ZEN-Core architecture.

[ProfD]

15 hours ago, ElmerJFudd said:

Over 4000 tones and 200 drum kits, easily expandable to over 10,000 total selections

 

Includes 1840 PCM waveforms, easily expandable to over 7000

Reads like Roland is trying to catch up with Spectrasonics Omnisphere.😁😎

[MPN21]

15 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

I wonder if they added the ability to change patches via MIDI Program Change. Without that, I think you can't even think about using it "standalone" in a live environment, you'd have to host it inside something like Gig Performer. GP is great, but I've always thought of needing it if you're running multiple VSTs, and you wouldn't bother if you're just running one. But that won't really work if the one you're running gives you no way to change patches from your keyboard.

I was hoping that at least the custom bank would be able to call up sounds by PC messages like Kontakt.   I couldn't find any reference in the manual.   Then again, I thought to myself that non of the current Roland VSTs offers patch remain except for Sound Canvas VA, and that patch change vi PC messages without patch remain is not really useful for me.     I use Gig Performer to send multiple PC messages to an external module, but more and more I find myself creating custom patches in Gig Performer and taking advantage of its own patch persist.   Then I can call up those patches or rack spaces via PC messages. 

[zephonic]

I caved, I subscribed. Woe me.

[Ibarch]

V2 includes a new set of sound banks with over 500 new sounds. Anyone know if they can be loaded on the RD-88? I'm assuming that would need a new wave expansion pack. 

[Fleer]

6 hours ago, Ibarch said:

V2 includes a new set of sound banks with over 500 new sounds. Anyone know if they can be loaded on the RD-88? I'm assuming that would need a new wave expansion pack. 

Good question, wondering the same. 

[zephonic]

I have to say I'm so glad to have my Roland sound ITB. Zenology sounds great and is well laid out, easy to use. The XV5080 is harder on resources for some reason, it has audible artifacts at buffers lower than 256. I also just installed System 8, but haven't gotten into that yet.

 

You're not gonna want this for AP/EP/CLAV sounds, those libraries really show their age. But for synth stuff, pads/strings/brass/bass/leads, it's awesome.

 

Zenology is a great example of VI design. It is gunning for Omnisphere as my default.

[ElmerJFudd]

3 hours ago, zephonic said:

I have to say I'm so glad to have my Roland sound ITB. Zenology sounds great and is well laid out, easy to use. The XV5080 is harder on resources for some reason, it has audible artifacts at buffers lower than 256. I also just installed System 8, but haven't gotten into that yet.

 

You're not gonna want this for AP/EP/CLAV sounds, those libraries really show their age. But for synth stuff, pads/strings/brass/bass/leads, it's awesome.

 

Zenology is a great example of VI design. It is gunning for Omnisphere as my default.

Omnisphere is also resource intensive but there are settings to improve performance with a lighter hit in addition to raising the buffer.   

Are there similar settings in Zenology to tweak it down for live playing?  

[zephonic]

Honestly, neither Omnisphere/Keyscape/Trillian nor Zenology seem particularly heavy on my system (at 128 buffer). Only XV5080 needs the buffer to be 256.

 

And I'm still running everything on Rosetta 2 as I have some stuff that has not yet been ported. Can't wait to fully switch to native.

[johnchop]

Signed up for a month of Ultimate to see what’s what, and … I dunno.  
 

Running on 12th Gen Intel i7 and most of the plug-ins struggle at 128 sample buffer (my preferred setting for playing). I don’t mind the 15-16% CPU utilization with the plug-in idle, but there’s an intermittent spike that’s causing a noticeable click.

 

The legendary plugins are pretty cool, but I’m not sure what I’m getting except for nostalgia factor. The UIs could be better (sliders for parameters  that aren’t continuous?) . The several drum machine variants seem like a cash grab. A plug-in per SRX? Why?

I’m just sort of whelmed.

 

The sound is good—clearly Roland-y—but they have optimization to do. Id revisit if they ditched the skeuomorphic designs, too.

 

 

[ElmerJFudd]

1 hour ago, johnchop said:

Signed up for a month of Ultimate to see what’s what, and … I dunno.  
 

Running on 12th Gen Intel i7 and most of the plug-ins struggle at 128 sample buffer (my preferred setting for playing). I don’t mind the 15-16% CPU utilization with the plug-in idle, but there’s an intermittent spike that’s causing a noticeable click.

 

The legendary plugins are pretty cool, but I’m not sure what I’m getting except for nostalgia factor. The UIs could be better (sliders for parameters  that aren’t continuous?) . The several drum machine variants seem like a cash grab. A plug-in per SRX? Why?

I’m just sort of whelmed.

 

The sound is good—clearly Roland-y—but they have optimization to do. Id revisit if they ditched the skeuomorphic designs, too.

 

 

Yes, many have shared it’s a resource hog and you need most recent hardware.  
 

[zephonic]

2 hours ago, johnchop said:

Signed up for a month of Ultimate to see what’s what, and … I dunno.  
 

Running on 12th Gen Intel i7 and most of the plug-ins struggle at 128 sample buffer (my preferred setting for playing). I don’t mind the 15-16% CPU utilization with the plug-in idle, but there’s an intermittent spike that’s causing a noticeable click.

 

The legendary plugins are pretty cool, but I’m not sure what I’m getting except for nostalgia factor. The UIs could be better (sliders for parameters  that aren’t continuous?) . The several drum machine variants seem like a cash grab. A plug-in per SRX? Why?

I’m just sort of whelmed.

 

The sound is good—clearly Roland-y—but they have optimization to do. Id revisit if they ditched the skeuomorphic designs, too.

 

 

 

 

What audio interface (and protocol) do you use? In my experience, the efficiency of your audio interface drivers are critical to good VI performance. I had great results with Avid(M-Audio), MOTU and RME, but not so good with Focusrite and Audient. Focusrite was stable, but the buffer needed to be at 256 and even then it couldn't take much. Audient was unusable at anything below 512, and forget about VI's.

 

I'm running Zenology at 128 buffer just fine, MBP with RME interface, but the XV5080 depends on the host. It works fine at 128 in GigPerformer, but in Cubase it needs 256, and even then there is the occasional click or pop.

I don't really understand why, because opening the same patch in Zenology will be just fine at 128.

 

[johnchop]

I’m on Waves Soundgrid (ASIO).

 

Indeed I get much better performance in Gig Performer than, say, Ableton Live. 

 

Still, it’s odd that the CPU doesn’t gradually ramp as I hold down more notes (as other plugins might). It sticks around 16% and there’s a CPU spike (presumably, because of the audible click) and then it’s back to 16%. It’s enough to set the CPU overload warning in Ableton, but not sustained enough such that I can see it register on the meter.

 

As someone who owns too many plugins  and has used them for years, the Roland stuff has been a bit of an odd duck in this regard.

 

I feel like there’s a lot of promise there, but they need to SIMPLIFY. Give me an “SRX player” plug-in and then license libraries. Give me one drum machine with a superset of TR features and then allow me to switch modes based on which model I own.  Ditch the “rack module” UI. 
 

For me, the sound is there, just not the overall experience.