Roland Zenology / Zenology Pro, rethinks cloud pricing

[zephonic]

1 hour ago, johnchop said:

I feel like there’s a lot of promise there, but they need to SIMPLIFY. Give me an “SRX player” plug-in and then license libraries. Give me one drum machine with a superset of TR features and then allow me to switch modes based on which model I own.  Ditch the “rack module” UI. 
 

For me, the sound is there, just not the overall experience.

 

 

For sure, Roland Cloud is convoluted, bewildering and confusing. For now, I just stick with Zenology, XV5080 and another "legend" (D50 at this time). More than once I've noticed I'm looking for something and next thing I know I've been browsing for like 20-30 minutes, total time suck.

 

Also, I have a "Pro" membership and I feel they should include at least one of the classic drum machines for that tier.

 

[Fleer]

2 hours ago, zephonic said:

 

 

For sure, Roland Cloud is convoluted, bewildering and confusing. For now, I just stick with Zenology, XV5080 and another "legend" (D50 at this time). More than once I've noticed I'm looking for something and next thing I know I've been browsing for like 20-30 minutes, total time suck.

 

Also, I have a "Pro" membership and I feel they should include at least one of the classic drum machines for that tier.

 

Aren’t you able to pick them under Legendary as one of your two (temporary) ones?

 

Anyway, I usually have JV-1080 and/or XV-5080 running, alternating with D-50 or JD-800. Hoping they get bumped to v2 like the other ones. 

[MPN21]

My one year subscription ended today.   I had signed up for one year Ultimate mainly to keep two plugins that I wanted to buy.   It was cheaper to subscribe for a year  and keep the two plugins.  Roland let me keep four plugins.   I don't know if Roland Cloud offers Black Friday sales, but I might purchase Zenology Pro later on  as I understand it contains all the SRX sounds. 

[ChazKeys]

3 hours ago, MPN21 said:

My one year subscription ended today.   I had signed up for one year Ultimate mainly to keep two plugins that I wanted to buy.   It was cheaper to subscribe for a year  and keep the two plugins.  Roland let me keep four plugins.   I don't know if Roland Cloud offers Black Friday sales, but I might purchase Zenology Pro later on  as I understand it contains all the SRX sounds. 

Yes the SRX sounds are in Z Pro but the names of the patches aren’t always the same. The SRX packs are the same as Wave Expansions - EXZ. You might want to go back to Ultimate if you were using SRX expansions a lot as I think the interface is better, especially for editing.

[zephonic]

19 hours ago, Fleer said:

Aren’t you able to pick them under Legendary as one of your two (temporary) ones?

 

I don't think so, no toggle behind those in my Library. But it's hard to the forest for the trees in Cloud Manager, so...

 

 

 

19 hours ago, Fleer said:

Anyway, I usually have JV-1080 and/or XV-5080 running, alternating with D-50 or JD-800. Hoping they get bumped to v2 like the other ones. 

 

I'm not sure what the point of JV1080 is, I mean, XV5080 has all that plus the extra sound banks...

[Fleer]

4 hours ago, zephonic said:

I'm not sure what the point of JV1080 is, I mean, XV5080 has all that plus the extra sound banks...

You’re absolutely right (and I even thought you would say that) but the thing is, I’ve got a real JV-1080 lying around I never used, so I like to at least see it as a plug-in  

[MPN21]

On 7/29/2023 at 1:37 AM, ChazKeys said:

Yes the SRX sounds are in Z Pro but the names of the patches aren’t always the same. The SRX packs are the same as Wave Expansions - EXZ. You might want to go back to Ultimate if you were using SRX expansions a lot as I think the interface is better, especially for editing.

I would have subscribed another year for Ultimate if I could keep Z Pro.   I do agree that SRX plugins have better interface, but for my purpose Z Pro would work for me just fine.  Also, I might get a Zen compatible piece of hardware in the future.   

 

[ElmerJFudd]

Roland is offering Zenology Pro lifetime key for $229 right now.  It includes 2 legendary instruments.  

 

Or get Ultimate for a year at $199 (until tomorrow, August 8 , 2023) and get two lifetime keys for legendary instruments. 

 

 

[RABid]

On 7/28/2023 at 6:28 PM, zephonic said:

For sure, Roland Cloud is convoluted, bewildering and confusing.

It is really strange. For some things their cloud could not be easier. Plug in the wireless USB device, load up the iPhone app, and tell it what you want to load onto your keyboard. Super simple. But then, some processes are a major headache. Like trying to move things from the cloud onto the MC-707. So much promise. So many hurdles. I stopped trying to load up my 707 with goodies from the cloud.

[AnotherScott]

5 hours ago, ElmerJFudd said:

Roland is offering Zenology Pro lifetime key for $229 right now.  It includes 2 legendary instruments.  

 

Or get Ultimate for a year at $199 (until tomorrow, August 8 , 2023) and get two lifetime keys for legendary instruments. 

 

And as I am alway confused by their cloud stuff, I don't know what the difference is between those two offers or why I"d choose one over the other. Pro. Ultimate. Ridiculous. Give these things names that actually tell you something about what differentiates them!

[ElmerJFudd]

39 minutes ago, AnotherScott said:

 

And as I am alway confused by their cloud stuff, I don't know what the difference is between those two offers or why I"d choose one over the other. Pro. Ultimate. Ridiculous. Give these things names that actually tell you something about what differentiates them!

Ya I had to ask a lot of questions here and and the Roland forums to understand their offerings.  It’s overly complicated - especially the part about which Roland hardware is capable of running the Zenology engine and which of the vintage models will or won’t run on said hardware.  
 

I don’t know what the solution to that is.  

The chart at the bottom of this page with its tier checkboxes is the best they’ve done yet to show what you get at what level, subscribe or lifetime license as well.  https://www.roland.com/cloud/memberships
 

The hardware is a mess though.   You just have to assume if it’s not the Jupiter-X or Xm, you’re going to have to shell out for licenses to get the vintage models.   Even the Juno-X at its price point doesn’t have all the models.   Everything else is a crap shoot.  Like the SH-4d has synth models but it’s not Zenology compatible?  

[AnotherScott]

Yeah, that's a good page, I hadn't seen that in a while. I think one problem they have is simply confusing terminology.

 

They have Zen-Core. They have Zenology and Zenology Pro. They have "memberships" called Core, Pro, and Ultimate. The Core membership is distinct from Zen-Core. The Pro membership is distinct from Zenology Pro. Did they really have to use the "Core" and "Pro" terminology for completely different things that are part of the same environment?

 

The Cloud levels themselves are called Plans but also Memberships. Neither of which is the same as an Account (which includes a free cloud level that has no name).

 

My head spins.

 

I had the free full membership (don't ask me what it was called) for a year for having purchased a Roland keyboard. I never used it. I loaded it up a couple of times, and I found it too confusing to bother with.

[Stokely]

No interest in any subscription, ever.  If things get to the point where everyone is doing it, then maybe I'll join in the fun.  Doesn't seem like it's going to be anytime soon.  Lots of alternatives to "real" Roland sounds out there, not that I really am seeking exact copies of anything as long as it sounds good.

[RABid]

Like any piece of music software, or software driven hardware, you have to dig in and take on the learning curve. When I bought my Akai MPC I turned it on, tried it out, and it did not work they way I expected it to. Had a hard time finding where some of the important, frequently used commands were hidden. I put it aside and never did anything about it. After two years I stopped pouting, plugged it in, and found some good tutorials on YouTube. Now I love it. That two year delay is not Akai's fault, it was mine for expecting everyone to think the way I think. 

 

Same with the Roland Cloud. It is not that difficult to use, but you have to put out some effort and learn it. While using a MC-707 it was frustrating as I was only able to load one patch at a time. When I picked up a Jupiter Xm, wow. Jupiter X plus Roland Cloud is a powerful combo. Then I started using the software synths on computer. Their analog emulations are among the best, and my Ultimate subscriptions gives me two a year to keep. There is a huge amount of patch libraries, and Zenbeats on iPad is quite fun.

[ElmerJFudd]

52 minutes ago, RABid said:

Like any piece of music software, or software driven hardware, you have to dig in and take on the learning curve. When I bought my Akai MPC I turned it on, tried it out, and it did not work they way I expected it to. Had a hard time finding where some of the important, frequently used commands were hidden. I put it aside and never did anything about it. After two years I stopped pouting, plugged it in, and found some good tutorials on YouTube. Now I love it. That two year delay is not Akai's fault, it was mine for expecting everyone to think the way I think. 

 

Same with the Roland Cloud. It is not that difficult to use, but you have to put out some effort and learn it. While using a MC-707 it was frustrating as I was only able to load one patch at a time. When I picked up a Jupiter Xm, wow. Jupiter X plus Roland Cloud is a powerful combo. Then I started using the software synths on computer. Their analog emulations are among the best, and my Ultimate subscriptions gives me two a year to keep. There is a huge amount of patch libraries, and Zenbeats on iPad is quite fun.

It’s not the learning curve or the software or hardware that is daunting.  It’s really a complex product lineup that isn’t obvious to consumers.  
 

Maybe as their hardware instruments evolve to having the same silicon then we’ll see the entire lineup capable of running all their sound engines - then they can say at this price point these engines are included, a tier up adds these, etc.   

 

Or maybe their goal is really for Zenology  to be the mother of  sound engines.  And from there it’s really patches and waveforms (expansions) that they intend to develop and sell (I think you HAVE to have Zenology Pro to even load expansions).   The vintage models is a whole different thing and which machines can and can't run them always requires checking first.  

[Fleer]

I tend to appreciate the computer side of Zenology Pro but I have yet to link it to my RD-88. 

[zephonic]

4 hours ago, Stokely said:

Lots of alternatives to "real" Roland sounds out there, not that I really am seeking exact copies of anything as long as it sounds good.

 

There is no accounting for taste, but to me nothing can quite replace that Roland flavor. I’ve been ITB for more than a decade now, and always relied on Omnisphere and others to substitute what used to be a part of my sound. Zenology has really brought that home for me.

 

 

 

[MPN21]

22 hours ago, ElmerJFudd said:

Roland is offering Zenology Pro lifetime key for $229 right now.  It includes 2 legendary instruments.  

 

Or get Ultimate for a year at $199 (until tomorrow, August 8 , 2023) and get two lifetime keys for legendary instruments. 

 

 

What do you mean Zenology Pro includes 2 legendary instruments?   I couldn't find any info on it. 

 

[Stokely]

9 hours ago, zephonic said:

 

There is no accounting for taste, but to me nothing can quite replace that Roland flavor. I’ve been ITB for more than a decade now, and always relied on Omnisphere and others to substitute what used to be a part of my sound. Zenology has really brought that home for me.

 

 

 

Fair enough.  I owned a JX-10 for many years and loved it.  My favorite synth sounds were generally Oberheim though, but I never owned one.  Mostly ITB I use Diva and Repro for something in that ballpark.

[ElmerJFudd]

1 hour ago, MPN21 said:

What do you mean Zenology Pro includes 2 legendary instruments?   I couldn't find any info on it. 

 

A life time key for Zenology Pro is currently $229

https://www.roland.com/cloud/memberships

 

I thought that "Pro" meant you could get 2 Legendary instruments.  But it seems that I am confused by the terminology, perhaps it's "Pro" Membership that gets you two virtual instruments.  And Zenology "Pro" is just the price for that app alone.   

[David Emm]

One recent bit of mini-madness: Roland kept honking at me to update the Cloud Manager. It became pernicious, so I gave in to shut it up. More fool ME! Now the sign-in panel keeps cropping up at random through whatever I'm doing. There are no preferences within the app to shut it up. There's bound to be a simple fix from the Mac end, but I'm missing it so far. Look, its the new Roland NAG-6 nagware module! 🤨

[ElmerJFudd]

3 minutes ago, David Emm said:

One recent bit of mini-madness: Roland kept honking at me to update the Cloud Manager. It became pernicious, so I gave in to shut it up. More fool ME! Now the sign-in panel keeps cropping up at random through whatever I'm doing. There are no preferences within the app to shut it up. There's bound to be a simple fix from the Mac end, but I'm missing it so far. Look, its the new Roland NAG-6 nagware module! 🤨

See if it is listed in your startup items and remove it.  When you’re going to be using it, you can launch and sign in on your own terms. 
 

https://support.apple.com/guide/mac-help/remove-login-items-resolve-startup-problems-mh21210/mac

[MPN21]

7 hours ago, ElmerJFudd said:

A life time key for Zenology Pro is currently $229

https://www.roland.com/cloud/memberships

 

I thought that "Pro" meant you could get 2 Legendary instruments.  But it seems that I am confused by the terminology, perhaps it's "Pro" Membership that gets you two virtual instruments.  And Zenology "Pro" is just the price for that app alone.   

Indeed, confusing.  Last July I signed up for one year Ultimate subscription at $199 in order to get two lifetime keys.  For some reason Roland offered me 4 keys.  Zenology Pro as an instrument has been available for purchase quite some time.  Online vendors sell it also.  https://www.jrrshop.com/zenology

[David Emm]

36 minutes ago, ElmerJFudd said:

See if it is listed in your startup items and remove it.  When you’re going to be using it, you can launch and sign in on your own terms. 
https://support.apple.com/guide/mac-help/remove-login-items-resolve-startup-problems-mh21210/mac

 

AHA! There's the little bugger! I haven't had to do that in ages, so I had a moment of Macheimer's. Further testament to Macs and my own dubious memory. Thanks for the pointer.

[MPN21]

On 8/7/2023 at 6:06 PM, Stokely said:

No interest in any subscription, ever.  If things get to the point where everyone is doing it, then maybe I'll join in the fun.  Doesn't seem like it's going to be anytime soon.  Lots of alternatives to "real" Roland sounds out there, not that I really am seeking exact copies of anything as long as it sounds good.

Couldn't agree more.  When Roland Cloud began with subscription only, I didn't even bother with the free trial.  Sure enough.  Pretty soon Roland started offering different options.  I'd say unless a person operates a commercial studio utilizing lots of sounds, subscription for the end user is not good.  Besides, many of us have already too many sounds.      One thing that I agree to with my wife; we don't like monthly payments.  Just about the only subscription I pay for is a digital edition of a daily newspaper.   No cable TV, but wife watches lots of YT on the big screen.   So I pay $12 or so a month to get rid of the ads.   I could've connected a mini media pc and use browsers like Firefox to bypass the pesky ads, but I figure wife doesn't want to fiddle with the keyboard/mouse.   

[RABid]

Don't confuse Zenology Pro and Roland Cloud Pro. Zenology Pro is a synth. The Cloud is the service with three levels, basic, pro and ultimate. Zenology can be purchased, or included in your Cloud subscription.

[David Emm]

I'm curious... does anyone here lean into Zenology Pro seriously? With 4 partials, nice Bezier curve tools for envelopes (love those anywhere they appear) and a healthy mass of effects, its a good match for many other such synths. There's also the massive sound library. I prefer not to lean on the cloud so seriously, but the Pro model could most likely hold its own handsomely with anything but high-end specialty synths like modelers.

 

My question acknowledges each company having a basic sound you may or may not embrace. Roland's is juicy, m'kay? I just wonder how its gone for someone who went all-in early on. Roland is the first company to spread its IP across several platforms so vigorously. If you're one of those brave souls, how's it been going?

[zephonic]

Honestly, Zenology Pro kicks everybody’s butt. I’m not much of programmer, more of a tweaker, but the UI is very well laid out, you can quickly and easily find the parameter you’re looking for. Omnisphere is like that, too, but Zenology is even cleaner.

 

My only two wishes are a dedicated aftertouch tab in the “keyboard section”, and MIDI channels!

 

I know MIDI channels aren’t as relevant in the DAW era, especially for non-multi-timbral synths, but a “pro” instrument like Zenology should have it nonetheless, I feel.

[ElmerJFudd]

2 hours ago, zephonic said:

Honestly, Zenology Pro kicks everybody’s butt. I’m not much of programmer, more of a tweaker, but the UI is very well laid out, you can quickly and easily find the parameter you’re looking for. Omnisphere is like that, too, but Zenology is even cleaner.

 

My only two wishes are a dedicated aftertouch tab in the “keyboard section”, and MIDI channels!

 

I know MIDI channels aren’t as relevant in the DAW era, especially for non-multi-timbral synths, but a “pro” instrument like Zenology should have it nonetheless, I feel.

You’re using it on a laptop live as your sound module or you’re mainly into arranging with it at home?  If live - standalone or within a host?  Can Zenology Pro host the virtual XV5080? 

[zephonic]

Both!

 

Since I've had it I use it on pretty much every track I make, really neck to neck with Omnisphere as the first instrument I open. I love it for pads, synth bass, and smooth leads.

 

I'm virtualizing my live rig as I'm getting more flyaways, and backline companies don't always (or hardly ever) have what you request. Way it works for me, I'll have a Motif or Montage 8 on the bottom tier for basic piano/EP duties, and use a semi-weighted on top-tier as a controller for GigPerformer. Example, Kontakt Session Horns is really good, but adding some Zenology brass sounds really help it in a band context.

 

I also use some Korg Gadget (WaveStation/M1) sounds to that end. Can't wait for Korg to release the virtual Kronos! I may just have to get the Triton, although I feel it's a bit pricey for a 25-year old sound module.

 

I feel like there is some institutional sound design knowledge/experience with the big keyboard manufacturers that not many of the VI developers have.

 

A lot of those guys make stuff that sounds great in the studio, but sometimes gets lost in the sauce on stage. Or you have to add processing (EQ/comp) to make it "sit". Roland and Korg have stuff that just works right for the stage without any mucking around.

 

On 7/28/2023 at 1:52 PM, zephonic said:

I'm running Zenology at 128 buffer just fine, MBP with RME interface, but the XV5080 depends on the host. It works fine at 128 in GigPerformer, but in Cubase it needs 256, and even then there is the occasional click or pop.

I don't really understand why, because opening the same patch in Zenology will be just fine at 128.

 

 

It just occurred to me, Zenology is mono-timbral, XV5080 is multi-timbral. Maybe that is where the rub lies...