New KORG SV2??

[jejefunkyman]

Hi Pawelsz, I did notice a strong attack on the C5 note of the German Grand piano, but I don't find it disturbing, as I believe it's part of the piano sound. I did notice a similar behavior on the Vox Conti Grand Piano, though not on the same note and less hard.

So I assume this is part of the "Korg Piano" experience .

 

What is more disturbing to me at the moment is a strong background noise on the Italian Grand Piano when playing especially the A4 note, and on the Italian Jazz version when playing the B4 note (I've also mentioned it on FB).

 

Unlike the general background noise I hear on all pianos when pushing very strongly on the keys, which I somehow got used to, this noise on the Italian pianos appears even if I play the key normally. So I have to play these particular keys very softly to avoid this noise, which is a bit tricky. It happens only through headphones, or at least I can't hear it when listening through loudspeakers. So could you please tell me if your hear something similar? One guy on FB already replied he is also hearing something similar on his unit.

 

It's a bit of a shame because the Italian pianos are now my favorites.

 

What is surprising is that on the recording I made to soundproof this noise, it is much less high and loud. So I assume the noise frequency is amplified by the headphones.

 

I could get rid of it with global EQ by using the adjustable mid band: I completely turned down the gain around 9.75 kHz, with Q at the maximum. But of course, I then lose a bit of high frequencies in the tone.

 

On a side note, I'm not really digging the Japanese pianos, mostly because of a lack of medium/low frequencies, which is a also a bit surprising because the Japanese piano was the one I was always using on the SV1

[pawelsz]

C5 note is okay on German Grand, the C#5 isn't. C5 is not OK on German Classic. I am not sure if we talk about same thing. Strangely, in the NoRes version I don't hear it or haven't found it. I believe the NoRes version comes from the basic one, not Classic neither Jazz.

I find Japan Grand to have the largest amount of mid frequencies among all of the grands. Maybe higher mids. I also think that Japan has the highest noise level, but I live with that, it is surely in samples. Oh, I saw your post, Jerome

[jejefunkyman]

ð Ok I will check again what you"re talking about. I was not at home today, so couldn"t turn the SV2 on. For the Japanese versions, I think you"re right, there"s too much mid frequencies for me to enjoy it ð¤·ââï¸.

 

About all these discussions around piano noises, I"m starting to think that maybe Korg went too far in the realism of their piano sounds ð But I also think that"s something which is mostly related to close listening through headphones. Shame that it"s not possible to rehearse and gig at the moment to get another perspective â¹ï¸ and use the SV2 in a band context.

 

Edit: after checking, I confirm I just hear a very strong resonance in the high frequencies on the German Grand on the C5 and even D5, but nothing special on the C#5. So even between us, we don"t hear the same things ð

 

What bugs me a bit is that I never heard any of these background noises on all the demos I"ve watched on YT. Looks like they are completely wiped out during the recording process. I don"t know if this comes from a conscious human action or simply because the audio in the Youtube videos does not accurately reproduce all the frequency range and details of the SV2 piano sounds. It"s something I find a bit disturbing too.

[pawelsz]

I recorded all 4 variants (Grand, Classic, Jazz, NoRes) and played two chords without and with pedal depressed:

 

Hamburg Grand, chords Ab and A (with C#5 note last), the bug is heard from 0m24s

https://voca.ro/13YNJ6PMaHcB

 

Hamburg Classic, chords G and Ab (with C5 note last), the bug is heard at 0m25s and from 0m28s

https://voca.ro/1dfI2U4QkttH

 

Hamburg Jazz, chords Bb and B (H) (with D#5 note last), the bug is heard at 0m23s and from 0m26s

https://voca.ro/15k1tRuI1ldI

 

Hamburg NoRes, chords G, Ab, A, Bb, B (H), C, (with E5 note last) no bug heard

https://voca.ro/1hG9d7LxklFb

 

recorded via P-515 input jack to USB stick. It surely has a noise gate so most of noise was wiped out.

[jejefunkyman]

I"m sorry Pawelsz but I can"t really hear what your problem is with these recordings ð¤·ââï¸ But in the meantime, I think I found the solution to mine. I had at the very beginning pushed slightly up the gain of the stereo limiter on all acoustic pianos, as I found the volume of the factory presets were not high enough. I"m talking of 1 dB up here. And when turning this down back to the factory setting level, then the noises are much less present, especially on the Italian Grand and Jazz variants. In the meantime, I"ve changed the way I listen to the SV2. Before I was picking up the headphone out of my Yamaha 01V mixing board, but didn"t like the volume level. This is the reason why I increased the gain on the SV2 stereo limiter. Now I"m picking up the headphone out of my amplifier, and get much more volume. So even if I reduce the stereo limiter gain, I still get a satisfying level while getting rid of the background noises. Crazy that such little change solves the issue. ð¤¦ââï¸ I was using the 01V headphone out before with the SV1 and didn"t find the volume to be too low ð¤·ââï¸

[jerrythek]

I know the pianos (and the sound engine) of the Kronos very well, but not the Grandstage or SV2. What I hear at the times you note is what is called "mechanical noise" in the piano engine. It's actually on the key-off, not on the attack. I also hear that the D#5 has a much different attack sound than the D5. The D5 rings clearly, the D#5 has a quickly muted attack characteristic, which exposes the mechanical noise on the key-off much more. I don't know if this is the same thing you are hearing...

 

Jerry

 

I recorded all 4 variants (Grand, Classic, Jazz, NoRes) and played two chords without and with pedal depressed:

 

Hamburg Grand, chords Ab and A (with C#5 note last), the bug is heard from 0m24s

https://voca.ro/13YNJ6PMaHcB

 

Hamburg Classic, chords G and Ab (with C5 note last), the bug is heard at 0m25s and from 0m28s

https://voca.ro/1dfI2U4QkttH

 

Hamburg Jazz, chords Bb and B (H) (with D#5 note last), the bug is heard at 0m23s and from 0m26s

https://voca.ro/15k1tRuI1ldI

 

Hamburg NoRes, chords G, Ab, A, Bb, B (H), C, (with E5 note last) no bug heard

https://voca.ro/1hG9d7LxklFb

 

recorded via P-515 input jack to USB stick. It surely has a noise gate so most of noise was wiped out.

[jejefunkyman]

Hi Jerry, thanks again for your insights. Everything makes sense now. I recognize that these SV2 piano sounds include a lot of details like mechanical noises or resonances which I'm not necessarily used to, being a long time user of the SV1 piano sounds, which did not include all these details, or at least not so present. The outcome of this from my point of view is that one must be very careful when changing the sound settings from their factory state, as this can amplify very quickly some of the noises included in the base samples. That's a lesson learned for me, and I will keep this in mind now when tweaking the sounds :-) I'm now feeling real good with the SV2, and ready to spend more time really exploring all the different piano variants.

[pawelsz]

This is not in RX layer, believe me. I haven't switched it off for recording but it is in the main layer.

The Grand, Classic, and Jazz version were recorded: first chord without damper, first chord with damper, second chord without damper, second chord with damper. And for the last one (second chord with damper) the last note in each recording is the note the whole discussion is about. This particular sound stands out from the others. It has very metallic attack, sounds similar to short "cutoff peak" at the very beginning of the sound when played with certain velocity. I would say the middle of dynamics range where the note is played most often. It behaves like that only with damper pedal depressed. If you don't hear this use good headphones. I hear it through headphones as well as monitors. It's obvious. I even marked which second it starts.

 

 

For the background noise, which is different issue, I must try adjusting the limiter or even switching it off. Maybe this will improve the sound. In P-515 I have all "sound improving technologies" switched off because I think the basic sound sounds best, without binaural sampling, stereophonic optimizer, nor sound boost.

[jejefunkyman]

I think it is much better to switch the Stereo Limiter effect off and that it was not a good decision to apply it on the factory sounds, especially on the AP and EP. I also checked again the SV1 Tine EP amp and Grand Piano 1 presets, and they are not using the Stereo Limiter effect but the Stereo Mastering Limiter effect, which does something different to the sound. The Stereo Limiter effect (or at least the way it was setup on the factory presets) applies a little compression which though very subtle, has a quite unatural effect which disturbed me. It also has the effect of burying this tine sound in the high register on the MK 1 Suitcase patch which annoyed me quite a lot (so it was not entirely the fault of my AKG headphones...).

 

Now the MK 1 Suitcase sounds really like I would like it to sound through the amp simulation, and all the AP sound also better, and it feels better to play them.

 

On some of the SV2 demo videos, it was stated that the Stereo Limiter effect is meant to balance the level of the different presets, but actually it compresses the sound (and as a result, amplifies the background noises of some of the AP). This is also mentioned in the user manual by the way.

 

So in general, my only complain with the SV2 is that it was not immediately useable. It needed quite some time and effort from me to setup it up the way I want, and also find the reasons why it did not sound like I wanted it to sound. With a bit of frustration along the way.

[pawelsz]

I tried to switch it off and on and haven't noticed any difference when the gain was set to 0. Maybe I should try again more carefully. What amazes me is you write that certain sounds use one kind of effect (Stereo Limiter), while other use the other (Stereo Mastering Limiter). This effect as I recall should have been the global effect so independent from the patch selected. I have to check again.

[jejefunkyman]

You can setup a different global effect with different settings for each patch and save it as a favorite. In general, all the SV2 patches use the Stereo Limiter as the global effect. But if you load the SV1 factory and additional soundbanks, you will see that some patches use the Stereo Mastering Limiter. I remember also that on my SV1, at least the Tine EP amp, Wurli and Grand Piano patches were also using the Stereo Mastering Limiter. So it's a change I noticed between the SV1 and the SV2. I even have editor pictures of my previous SV1 setup for the Tine EP amp and Wurli, which I took before leaving my SV1 to my father's house, in order to reproduce them on the SV2 ;-)

 

Actually, I didn't switch off the global effect, but changed to the Stereo Mastering Limiter on the MK I Suitcase patch with the threshold set at -4 dB, and threshold set at 0 for the Piano patches. The difference is quite subtle but still noticeable (at least for me). I can even now tolerate to listen the Japanese Grand version, which I couldn't stand before.

[pawelsz]

Maybe it is strange but I decided on SV-2. I have got a question about the keybed. Valid for other RH3 keybeds also. Should I worry about uneven key heights? Also keys gaps between B/C and E/F are bigger than for other keys but it is not a big deal. Photos :

 

 

 

If anyone remembers my case, I have my issue finally solved. I would say the later items are much better.

 

 

 

And now the keyboard feels really even. What I called even in December was not so even in feel like the current one.

[pawelsz]

So I was still not fully satisfied with the Acoustic Piano sounds of the SV2, as I found the Grand Piano versions too mellow and too heavy in the low frequency range, and the Bright versions, well...too bright and thin. I think the best compromise is to use the Jazz versions, especially when playing with a full band, but also for playing in a solo or trio setting. They are nicely clear in the medium/high range, while keeping enough bottom to make them satisfyingly round, but not too much. And when one needs an even brighter and punchy piano sound for playing rock, I think the Rock Piano version could do the job well.

 

In one of my previous posts I mentioned I was using Japanese Classic mostly. After having SV-2 for nearly a year I made my favourites based mostly on Japanese Grand and Italian Bright (Bright versions are made with Jazz programs, so I don't know what difference you are talking about, maybe some EQ settings) and settled on that configuration for a long time.

But recently, when playing Japanese Grand at higher dynamics, I felt like it was too heavy sounding, really. So I changed all my Japanese Grand based favourites to that Bright version made with Jazz program and the sound is crisper, clearer in higher dynamics than the Grand. And I no longer use any Classic piano sound, Grand sounds warm enough and very rich. Grand may be better for some very pianistic solo playing. In the mix or busy playing the Bright should be the way to go for me.

[jejefunkyman]

Hey Pawelsz, yeah I was actually a bit confused between the naming of the factory presets (ie Italian Bright, Japanese Bright...) and the naming of the individual patches used to buid the presets (ie Italian Jazz, Japan Jazz...). Anyway, I'm glad you found your way through the multiples available sounds.

 

I agree with the fact that the Grand variants are more fitted to solo playing, whereas the Bright variants cut through better when comping with a band. I've also found that changing the velocity curve to a lighter one helps in this case (I mean in a band context).

 

I'm overall quite happy with the piano variants except with the Japanese. For whatever reasons, it sounds very metallic and kind of dirty through my ATH-M50x headphones when playing solo. I still need to try it mixed with other instruments. I use mostly the Italian Grand and Bright variants.

 

Yesterday, I played a bit with the Austrian and found it also quite good. So maybe I'll use it more in the future. I think the SV2 pianos are super warm and realistic compared to other DP, and this may disturb some people who are more used to bright and clear tones. By the way, how do you compare them to the P-515? I would be quite interested to hear from you on this.

 

Sometimes, I find it a bit hard to have so much choices available. On the SV1, I was using only one preset for the EP and one for the acoustic piano, whatever the context was. So I was kind of disturbed when switching to the SV2, but it's getting better and better :-). I'm still learning to define which preset goes with which particular tune or music style. I'm also listening to songs more carefully, especially for EP, to try to find out from which original EP variant (ie MK I Suitcase or Stage, MK II Suitcase or Stage, MK V...) it comes and match it with the SV2's. I learned a great deal like this :-) which is nice.

[RoadHousePiano]

Can anyone share with me their favorite Clav settings on the SV2? An acquaintance of mine had the SV1 and I remember being envious of the clav sounds he was using (I've been strictly Nord for a long, long time. Still using an Electro 5 as my top board). I haven't been able to find/tweek one to my liking. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

[pawelsz]

@RoadHousePiano

 

I'm not a clav guy, so I think I can't help much. But I find them very nice sounding in Korg instruments in general. Better than Nord. Vox Continental may be good for playing clav.

 

@jejefunkyman

 

I decided to get used to factory touch curves, to avoid having different settings on presets and different settings in favorites. Korg sounds best for me on APs when playing quiet.

Austrian Grand is too mellow for me, but the Classic variant has that unique timbre in low octaves. It's present also in P-515 Bosendorfer.

 

About comparison... they are totally different.

 

I made similar comparison on another forum, so I will write something similar, maybe shorter:

 

Korg is rather more realistic sounding, really warm, has much better pianissimo and generally sounds better in lower dynamics. OTOH, the low notes on Korg seem to be a bit boomy, and the general character of sound is like it has some imperfections in samples, just like the real instrument. I found the sound of certain c# (c#5?) in the German Grand has very strange attack with damper pedal depressed. Seems to me like Korg engine uses different samples for both damper up and down. The samples in Korg also are not perfectly clean, there is some remaining noise, easily noticeable in headphones when playing loud, particularly with damper depressed, but it is not damper resonance simulation, just noise like shhhh....

 

Yamaha CFX is far more precise sounding, but a bit cold and sterile compared to Korg. And it is a bit challenging to achieve delicate pianissimo, the samples are quite aggressive I would say, like every Yamaha has. Bosendorfer is another story, has bassy and unique sounding low end and dark, but full character. There is also Studio Grand which is Yamaha C7, IIRC, very cutting-thru the mix. CFX is great all-rounder sound.

P515 has string resonance VRM and all that piano room parameters, obviously damper resonance too. After buying SV-2 and getting to understand its sound, I switched back to nearly factory settings in P-515 and playing on Medium touch, brightness only 6 on most patches (7 on Bosendorfer). Earlier I was making the piano too bright and too easy to trigger higher velocities.

 

Unfortunately I wasn't able to use SV2 in live scenario since I bought it but with little bass reduction in the mixer it should work nicely. I think the low midrange is stronger than in Yamaha but as I said totally different character.

[jejefunkyman]

Ok thanks for your explanation. I share your view on the background noise in the piano samples, we already talked about it ;-). It"s a choice from the designers to do like this, as I understood from discussions I had with the support team. Was a bit disturbing to me at the beginning ð

 

For the Clavs, I use mostly the AC and AD settings with a bit of extra bass in the general EQ to make it a bit warmer. I turn up the RX layer because I like to hear the background noises on clavs. Just a bit of hall reverb, and that"s it basically. It is very easy to try and tweak the factory presets, so that you can build your desired sound. That"s part of the SV2 experience ð Of course, you can add the auto wah effect to make it funkier, and the AC30 amp sim to make it super crunchy with some overdrive. Very fun to play ð

[jejefunkyman]

So this weekend, I could access again the SV1 at my fathers's house, almost 1 year after I left it there. I wanted to hear again in particular my previously favorite Tine EP/amp patch, as I find the SV1 reloaded one strangely sounding, especially in the medium/medium high register. I think I should have done a full one to one comparison, while I still had the two boards under my hand, a big failure from my side .

 

Now I know more or less what I need to adjust on the SV2 to come closer, but I'm not sure I can do it fully right. Means these reloaded patches are not so easy to voice to match 100% with the former SV1 tones, though I can't tell exactly why is it so.

 

I also played again my favorite AP patch, which is the Grand Piano 1A coming from Soundpack 2, which is supposed to be a Japanese piano, and here I must say that I still really love this patch!! It is sounding exactly as I want an AP to sound, with a very clear and nice tone in all registers. Yes the SV2 pianos are much better in term of details and background noises, and also with many more variations, but I'm not so sure this exactly what I want to have. I want mainly my former SV1 AP tone to use as my main one, with the possibility to have other available variations for other purposes than a live stage setting. And here again, I'm not fully satisfied with the SV1 reloaded patch. So I need also to tweak it further to come closer to the SV1 tone I have in my mind.

 

I know really think that these SV1 tones are so much ingrained in my brain after so many years using it, that I'm somehow still struggling to fully accept the SV2 new tones, even though they are much richer, precise and detailed.

 

Maybe I should rent a SV1 in my hometown, load my previous settings into it, and really do this 1 to 1 comparison. Or maybe I'm just crazy

[RoadHousePiano]

Not sure why it hasn't dawned on me to boost the bass a bit. Thanks for the input.

[AnotherScott]

So this weekend, I could access again the SV1 at my fathers's house, almost 1 year after I left it there. I wanted to hear again in particular my previously favorite Tine EP/amp patch, as I find the SV1 reloaded one strangely sounding, especially in the medium/medium high register. I think I should have done a full one to one comparison, while I still had the two boards under my hand, a big failure from my side .

 

Now I know more or less what I need to adjust on the SV2 to come closer, but I'm not sure I can do it fully right. Means these reloaded patches are not so easy to voice to match 100% with the former SV1 tones, though I can't tell exactly why is it so.

My experience, from my post earlier in this long thread that you may have missed: "I loaded some SV1 sounds into it. They do sound almost identical, but to get it as close as possible, I found I had to roll off the bass a bit and boost the treble. The reverb is also a little different, the new one sounds richer." So maybe that will set you on the path toward what you're looking for...

[jejefunkyman]

Yes Scott, I had of course seen your post (I can't tell how many times I went through the complete SV2 post chain, to try to catch up something I may have missed lol), and used it as a base to start my own SV2 tweakings Nonetheless, I still need to work it out, as I think I did some changes on the initial SV1 patches, which led somehow to a different sound. But as the patch loading system in the SV1 is different than on the SV2 (it crashes the factory settings), I neither can do a 1 to 1 comparison on the SV1 (I didn't bring with me the laptop where I stored the SV1 soundpacks for my short trip to my father's place).

 

However, I know for sure that I made the SV1 tweaks to my taste. So this is really the base I have to follow, I guess.

 

I should really have done this while I still had the SV1, I still beat myself because of this

 

@RoadHousePiano: you're very welcome

[ElmerJFudd]

Went into the shop today, what they referred to as the Black Friday. The SV2 is very nice to play. The acoustic piano behavior with the action is a significant improvement from the first and I found the internal speakers a pleasant surprise and imagine very useful for practicing at home. Compact to grab and scoot with if not particularly light. Very easy to use. Thumbs up.

[jejefunkyman]

Good to hear that from a CP88 owner ðð

 

I"m still somehow in the learning curve with mine, as the diversity of tones in the various categories is really amazing.

 

This is definitely much more than what we had on the SV1. And it can"t be a bit daunting sometimes, with so much choice under the hands ð

[ChazKeys]

Still going around the houses looking for a 73 key board (I sold my CP73) so I've just been checking prices for these. In UK/Europe you will pay about £400 more for the model with speakers. That's a lot of money for internal speakers - you could pick up a decent powered monitor or even a small valve combo for the difference. Maybe the standard version is more popular so it's discounted. Any ideas?

[pawelsz]

Still going around the houses looking for a 73 key board (I sold my CP73) so I've just been checking prices for these. In UK/Europe you will pay about £400 more for the model with speakers. That's a lot of money for internal speakers - you could pick up a decent powered monitor or even a small valve combo for the difference. Maybe the standard version is more popular so it's discounted. Any ideas?

 

Standard non speaker 73 key version of SV-2 was 1599 in Thomann at least until the end of 2020 IIRC, now the basic price is 1555 but there was the price of 1399 for very short time around Black Friday 2021. Great deal!

 

I would now consider also Numa X Piano 73 as the possible 73 key alternative but I would really need to check the new or "new" TP/110 action. Maybe you can find Grandstage 73 somewhere, too.

[ChazKeys]

Thomann still have the SV2 73 at 1400 so still a good price. Not interested in the Numa but the Grandstage 73 would be an option but is now discontinued. Based on your observation it would seem the SV2 should sell for a few hundred euros less than the SV2-S. So Thomann and Music Store are still selling the SV2 at a much lower price for now.

 

BTW I have owned a couple of SV1s so I am familiar with the action. But still preferred it to the TP100. But going to a be a long time before we get feedback on the TP110.

[pawelsz]

Thomann still have the SV2 73 at 1400 so still a good price.

 

So they lowered the price again! Believe me I saw 1555 several days ago! I paid 1599 EUR a year ago but the EUR/PLN exchange rate was significantly better.

 

Unfortunately there is very limited choice of 73/76 key stage pianos with good hammer actions. So not TP100. You may add Forte 7 to the list but also discontinued. Maybe you can get it somewhere as well as Grandstage 73. You can go with Nord Piano 5 73 if you like it and can afford it (TP40 action I think).

 

Or just go with SV-2 73?

[The Piano Man]

Am I right in saying that the model with speakers (SV2s) is not available in all black?

 

I hope Korg add this option. The cream/white version is too bold for my liking.

 

Genuinely considering getting the RD88 but will hold off until NAMM in case new colour options emerge for the SV2.

 

The new Vox Continental looks great!

[jejefunkyman]

Yes, you're right, the speaker version is only available in the white version.

[AnotherScott]

Am I right in saying that the model with speakers (SV2s) is not available in all black?

 

I hope Korg add this option. The cream/white version is too bold for my liking.

Yes, I was surprised by that as well. The black speaker openings in a black enclosure would essentially disappear, and I could see that being much more appealing for some people.