Most versatile action (which nord stage should I buy)

[Copacetic]

Hey guys, I am pretty close to pulling the trigger on a nord stage. The last thing I must finally make a decision on is which size to get.

 

I know people will say well if you're a pianist full weighted hammer action, if you're an organ or synth player you need the synth action.

Well the truth is I am a bit of, or at least aspire to both. I really love the sound of AP and I will definitely be using the keyboard for at least 30% AP.

I also really like synth and organ and will be spending at least 50% on those (more synth than organ probably).

I like the physical sliders on the compact, but I also like the idea of having my main (likely only) keyboard having the full 88 keys.

 

What I'd like are some opinions on which I can live without easier than the other. The weighted keys, the 88 keys, the faster action, the physical sliders?

I know a lot of keyboardists or pianists have many pianos to fill unique roles. I'm looking at this as a do it all piano/keyboard for live and studio use and space is at a premium so I will not be acquiring many (if any) other keyboards.

 

So I really would like your opinion on what will give me the most mileage and be the most versatile for a variety of instruments and techniques.

 

I am currently leaning toward the compact (73 key) as my understanding is you can still be fairly expressive on semi-weighted/waterfall keys; but you can only be so fast on hammer action (but does this lack of speed ever really limit you?)

 

My current keyboard is a Korg triton taktile (49 key) semi weighted, but I will most likely sell the korg when I get the nord.

[stillearning]

...I know people will say well if you're a pianist full weighted hammer action, if you're an organ or synth player you need the synth action. Well the truth is I am a bit of, or at least aspire to both...

 

...What I'd like are some opinions on which I can live without easier than the other...

Your last sentence sums it up for me. Personally, I could not live without hammer action. I find it easier to play synth and organ on weighted, than I can play piano on unweighted.

 

Plus, if its my only, board, 88 allows more room for splits, etc. Fwiw, I gig with a Stage 88, playing a similar mix of piano, organ, and synth as you talked about.

[AnotherScott]

If you want to play organ with a lot of organ-specific techniques (smears, machine gun note repetitions, using drawbar manipulation as you play), that will be tough on the 88; if you want to play piano with a lot of subtle dynamics, that will be tough on on the 73. So which compromise is worse depends on which of those things is more important to you. The bright side is, if you *must* play something with the "wrong" action, the Nord is more amenable to that than many others.

[jefsco]

 

the ha88, hp76, and compact are all quite different in feel!

if you have not played all three i think if you did, you would know which one you wanted.

id only choose the compact if i needed something that light.

doubt you would prefer the feel of the hp76 for synth and organ.

 

 

 

 

[ewall08530]

I just finally purchased a Stage 3 Compact. I've owned a Nord Stage 2 76. and an Electro 3 for about 6 years. I really wanted to upgrade to a newer Nord.

Physical draw bars. expanded piano memory, improved organ engine and A1 Synth were more than enough to get me to change my rig.

 

Which model was an easy decision. Tricky load ins and rehearsals in spaces with stairs had me wishing that my Stage 2 was lighter.

The Stage 3 Compact is a perfect compromise.

When I need or want 88 weighted keys it will be my Casio PX5s under the Stage 3 triggering the Nord piano sounds.

 

For now I'm keeping the Stage 2. That may change over time.

 

I sold the Electro 3 and the Kurzweil SP6 that I had just acquired in February.

There was much to like about the Kurzweil but it didn't make me want to ditch the Casio as I had envisioned. I came to realize that for my needs the Stage 3 made the most sense. Then it was just a matter of how to afford it.....

 

You may want to consider the Compact over the 88 weighted of choice.

[AnotherScott]

When I need or want 88 weighted keys it will be my Casio PX5s under the Stage 3 triggering the Nord piano sounds.

An NS3 Compact over your choice of Casio 88 is a nice light, small footprint combo.

 

There was much to like about the Kurzweil but it didn't make me want to ditch the Casio as I had envisioned.

What did you like better about the Casio compared to the Kurz?

 

 

[Copacetic]

You may want to consider the Compact over the 88 weighted of choice.

 

This probably makes the most sense for me for a few reasons. For one I didn't grow up playing piano so I have no strong bias going into this. Also the weight and space savings will be nice as I can see myself moving a couple times, possibly overseas, in the coming years. I really like the physical sliders and the option of adding a small weighted 88 keyboard for special circumstances makes a lot sense. I think i don't see myself focusing on a lot of real subtle playing.

 

As far as trying them all out I'd love that, but unfortunately not an option. The local music shops have an 88 on display, but none carry the other sizes locally. I'm guessing the 73 will feel a bit more weighted-ish than my current korg taktile?

[jefsco]

As far as trying them all out I'd love that, but unfortunately not an option. The local music shops have an 88 on display, but none carry the other sizes locally.

i forget about this because its so surprising to me!

here in little birmingham, alabama i have two nord dealers ten minutes from the house with nice selections of nords to demo.

 

edit: only make i cant find locally to demo is dexibell

 

sounds like you already know which one you want

 

 

[harmonizer]

I have the Electro 3 waterfall keyboard. It is called a semi-weighted, but it is a really lightly weighted version of a semi-weighted keyboard.

 

Maybe someone who has the Stage 3 Compact (and who has played an Electro 3 waterfall keyboard) can comment if they have the same or different weighting.

 

If they are the same, you might want to try some sort of Nord waterfall (semi-weighted) keyboard before you buy the Stage 3 Compact.

 

The lightness of weighting in my Electo 3 does not bother me, but I am a hack when it comes to keyboard playing.

[Copacetic]

hmm wait, just thought of something. Is it possible to still do splits if you are playing on a different keyboard plugged into the nord stage? Like if I got a second weighted 88 key to use with the nord compact, can i still do splits on the 88 key?

[AnotherScott]

hmm wait, just thought of something. Is it possible to still do splits if you are playing on a different keyboard plugged into the nord stage? Like if I got a second weighted 88 key to use with the nord compact, can i still do splits on the 88 key?

Yes. There are a couple of ways to do it. IIRC, using Dual KB mode, you can assign one sound to the external 88 (i.e. a piano sound) while continuing to split/layer your other 5 sounds on the Nord itself. Or you can assign one panel (consisting of one piano, one organ, and one synth/sampled sound) to one MIDI channel to be triggered by the 88, while the other panel (another set of up to 3 sounds split/layered) can be played from the built-in keys.

[Copacetic]

Hmmm I don't think we are referring to the same thing. I mean actually splitting the 88 (external) keyboard in half, not the built-in keyboard.

 

I just checked the user manual and I read this:

 

"The third option for controlling the Nord Stage 3 via MIDI is by using the

Global MIDI functionality. If the transmitting MIDI channel of an external

device is the same as the Nord Stage 3 Global MIDI channel, playing the

external unit will be very similar to playing the Nord Stage 3 from its own

keyboard."

 

So maybe using the global setting it would essentially replace the built in keyboard with the external keyboard, but I'm not sure on this point. Anyway I don't think it's a game changer either way.

 

Basically I'm wondering if I were to ever want to be using it as a slave to an external 88 weighted keyboard what (if any) functionality I would lose.

[MathOfInsects]

I play the NS3 Compact. I used to be a "piano player who plays some organ sounds" but somewhere along the line the proportion flipped and now I spend most nights playing more organ than keys, and when keys, more EP's than AP's. I also play a lot of gigs that call for synth stuff.

 

NS3 Compact is ideal for what I do. My dream board. I describe it as "a little too stiff for true organ action and a little too light for true piano playing," which is me describing the perfect board for me. I have very little trouble adapting to piano on it (and I DID have trouble with the NE5D, so I think the NS3 Compact must be sprung tighter), and find it highly responsive and completely "under the fingers" for all other playing.

 

Truly, the board I have been waiting for someone to make. If OP is looking for a single-board solution, I would strongly recommend considering this one.

 

[MathOfInsects]

Also, it's amazing to me how much I do not miss those 15 keys on the top and bottom. As a "piano player" it made me very nervous not to have them, and this is my first rig without an 88 in the mix. But now I can't figure out why I ever lugged more around than I am right now. I never miss those bottom 7 and top 8 keys, literally ever.

[Copacetic]

Also, it's amazing to me how much I do not miss those 15 keys on the top and bottom. As a "piano player" it made me very nervous not to have them, and this is my first rig without an 88 in the mix. But now I can't figure out why I ever lugged more around than I am right now. I never miss those bottom 7 and top 8 keys, literally ever.

 

Thanks for the feedback... and really thanks everyone, really helps in making a more informed decision hearing some different views.

[mate stubb]

You are screwed.

 

I find it impossible to execute proper organ technique on a hammer action, and impossible to execute proper piano technique on a synth or organ action.

 

Therefore I carry 2 boards. It's an immutable law of the universe.

[AnotherScott]

Hmmm I don't think we are referring to the same thing. I mean actually splitting the 88 (external) keyboard in half, not the built-in keyboard.

The option I described of driving one panel over MIDI gives you the possibility of a 3 way split driven from your external board and another three-way split from the Nord's keys themselves. But yes, as you described, you can also have the external keys essentially completely duplicate the internal ones.

 

I play the NS3 Compact...I have very little trouble adapting to piano on it (and I DID have trouble with the NE5D

Interesting. I found the NE5D to be much more suited to piano than the NS2 compact... but I haven't noticed such a big difference between the NE5D and NS3 compact. I wish I could say I'd had the opportunity to play them next to each other, though.

[Copacetic]

The option I described of driving one panel over MIDI gives you the possibility of a 3 way split driven from your external board and another three-way split from the Nord's keys themselves. But yes, as you described, you can also have the external keys essentially completely duplicate the internal ones.

 

Oh good stuff sounds like there's a lot of flexibility with this. Thanks for the info!

 

 

[MathOfInsects]

Interesting. I found the NE5D to be much more suited to piano than the NS2 compact... but I haven't noticed such a big difference between the NE5D and NS3 compact. I wish I could say I'd had the opportunity to play them next to each other, though.

 

To be sure, I bonded almost immediately with the NE5D. But I also always noticed there were piano "moves" I was trying to make on it, that I really needed a weighted board to pull off well.

 

I never notice that with the NS3 Compact. I definitely have to remember to adjust. No question you have to play HA different from SW. But I have yet to have a gig on the NS3 where I 'knew' that if I only had a weighted board, some part would have sounded better. That happened a couple of times a night with the 5D on piano songs.

[ewall08530]

hmm wait, just thought of something. Is it possible to still do splits if you are playing on a different keyboard plugged into the nord stage? Like if I got a second weighted 88 key to use with the nord compact, can i still do splits on the 88 key?

 

Yes you can. You would set the section of the split you want to control the Nord to the same midi channel of the Nord. Then your other part is set to a different channel.

[Al Quinn]

You are screwed.

 

I find it impossible to execute proper organ technique on a hammer action, and impossible to execute proper piano technique on a synth or organ action.

 

Therefore I carry 2 boards. It's an immutable law of the universe.

Same experience here. I tried really hard to like a one board rig when I had a Stage 2 HA88 for three and a half years. I could play piano, organ, and synth pretty well on it. No issue playing fast. No issue with organ smears. But the overall experience left me cold. Compromised action on top of compromised sounds (I.e., it not being an acoustic piano or B3) wasnt worth the benefit of not shelping a second keyboard. I play better, sound better, and have more fun with two keyboards.

[Adan]

You are screwed.

 

I find it impossible to execute proper organ technique on a hammer action, and impossible to execute proper piano technique on a synth or organ action.

 

Therefore I carry 2 boards. It's an immutable law of the universe.

 

I'm firmly in this camp. It's like mountain bikes and road bikes. Sure, you can ride a road bike on rough terrain or a mountain bike on the road, but you can't be anywhere close to competitive in either situation.

 

However, there may be situations where logistics push hard in favor of going with one board. Rehearsals, a fly gig, or whatever . . . and at those times you might appreciate having the lighter board. The thinking is, you'll be compromising one way or the other, might as well compromise in the direction of better portability.

[stoken6]

You are screwed.

 

I find it impossible to execute proper organ technique on a hammer action, and impossible to execute proper piano technique on a synth or organ action.

 

Therefore I carry 2 boards. It's an immutable law of the universe.

 

I'm firmly in this camp. It's like mountain bikes and road bikes. Sure, you can ride a road bike on rough terrain or a mountain bike on the road, but you can't be anywhere close to competitive in either situation.

 

However, there may be situations where logistics push hard in favor of going with one board. Rehearsals, a fly gig, or whatever . . . and at those times you might appreciate having the lighter board. The thinking is, you'll be compromising one way or the other, might as well compromise in the direction of better portability.

 

Moe and Adan nailed it. I would just add that for the saving in cost between the HA88 and SW73, you could buy a cheap 88 controller (secondhand Yamaha P35 would do nicely) to bring with you or leave behind depending on the gig.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[analogika]

I play the NS3 Compact...I have very little trouble adapting to piano on it (and I DID have trouble with the NE5D

Interesting. I found the NE5D to be much more suited to piano than the NS2 compact... but I haven't noticed such a big difference between the NE5D and NS3 compact. I wish I could say I'd had the opportunity to play them next to each other, though.

I find the NS3 compact much better suited to playing piano on than the Stage 2 compact.

 

I really enjoy playing piano on it, though the primary reason for getting the compact was a compromise between playable pianos and good Hammond and Clav action, with a priority on the Hammond.

 

The keyboard is a bit too stiff for organ, and a bit too light for piano, but the high trigger on the organ and the improved velocity curve for the pianos (some people will violently dispute calling it an "improvement", but it is for me) make it a joy to play for me.

 

For context, my daily trainer is a Yamaha CP70, which has my favourite piano action of all, but I spend a lot of time on the Wurlitzer, Mk1 Rhodes and '68 B-3.

[MathOfInsects]

 

Therefore I carry 2 boards. It's an immutable law of the universe.

 

I'm firmly in this camp. It's like mountain bikes and road bikes. Sure, you can ride a road bike on rough terrain or a mountain bike on the road, but you can't be anywhere close to competitive in either situation.

 

Moe and Adan nailed it. I would just add that for the saving in cost between the HA88 and SW73, you could buy a cheap 88 controller (secondhand Yamaha P35 would do nicely) to bring with you or leave behind depending on the gig.

 

Cheers, Mike.

 

But gentlemen....the OP asked about the most versatile action, not the exact action best suited to each individual kind of playing. So in this case, the proper analogy would be a hybrid bicycle, which lets you do both kids of riding pretty well. Yeah, there are compromises at the extremes. But can there be any disagreement that if the three choices are road, mountain, and hybrid, then hybrid is the most versatile option?

[AnotherScott]

Essentially, one is a piano action, slightly hybridized to make it better for organ than most piano actions. The other is essentially an organ action, slightly hybridized to try to make it better for piano than most organ actions. There is no true single hybrid option here, so I'd say it's a matter of what you need more or less of, based on your repertoire, playing techniques, and which sounds you use more often.

 

and yeah, if all else balances out, pick the lighter and/or cheaper one. ;-)

[jefsco]

But gentlemen....the OP asked about the most versatile action, not the exact action best suited to each individual kind of playing. So in this case, the proper analogy would be a hybrid bicycle, which lets you do both kids of riding pretty well. Yeah, there are compromises at the extremes. But can there be any disagreement that if the three choices are road, mountain, and hybrid, then hybrid is the most versatile option?

 

are you saying, without weight and price consideration, you would choose the compact as the most versatile action?

 

 

 

[Adan]

 

But gentlemen....the OP asked about the most versatile action, not the exact action best suited to each individual kind of playing. So in this case, the proper analogy would be a hybrid bicycle, which lets you do both kids of riding pretty well. Yeah, there are compromises at the extremes. But can there be any disagreement that if the three choices are road, mountain, and hybrid, then hybrid is the most versatile option?

 

 

I guess that's where the biking analogy breaks down because I would say there is not such thing as a hybrid keyboard action. Every action I've played either feels weighted or not. But the larger point is, even if there was such a compromise action, the effect would just be to put you at a disadvantage in both arenas, just as a hybrid bike isn't going to win races against either mountain bikes or road bikes.

 

The OP says he wants one keyboard, not two. I'm not trying to convince him he needs to, but I might be trying to humanely kill off any hope he may hold in his heart that one is going to be sufficient for all his needs.

 

If it were me making the choice, I'd first look to my playing portfolio to try to figure out whether I gain more from being strong on organ/synth versus pianos. If the result of that analysis is uncertain, I'd go with the more portable one.

[Adan]

Essentially, one is a piano action, slightly hybridized to make it better for organ than most piano actions. The other is essentially an organ action, slightly hybridized to try to make it better for piano than most organ actions. There is no true single hybrid option here, so I'd say it's a matter of what you need more or less of, based on your repertoire, playing techniques, and which sounds you use more often.

 

and yeah, if all else balances out, pick the lighter and/or cheaper one. ;-)

 

This is a case of either 1) great minds thinking alike or 2) me reading too many of Scott's posts.

[AnotherScott]

LOL

 

FWIW, I've been playing some gigs with 2 boards, where neither has a hammer action. I don't need great subtlety of dynamic piano expression for these gigs, it's rock stuff. I can play it all fine on the NS3 Compact. I don't enjoy the experience as much as when I play piano on a weighted action, but it's okay, and nobody can tell the difference except me.