Behring Odyssey and other classic synths reborn

[Muad’Dib]

[video:youtube]

 

From Super Booth 2018.

 

They have also done a new SH-01, a Pro One and the Roland VP 330 Vocoder.

 

Any thoughts on Behringer recreating classic synths?

 

Paul

[Ed A.]

They don't just copy them, they update them with new features the originals never had (on this and their Model D for example).

Behringer is really stepping it up. They're also trying their hand at original synths with the Neutron and DeepMind 12. I'd like to see them create some new physical modeling hardware synths.

[EscapeRocks]

I like the led's on the faders of this one. Great for those of us who often start songs in the dark before the light show starts

[GRollins]

For what it's worth, I'm still happy with my D. Just wish I had more time to play with it, but part of the problem is that I've had the Fatar keyboard project out of the rig while I built the case...nearly done. I mean, really, it did look kinda silly having the keybed and MIDI encoder sitting on top of the Hammond. Every time I looked at it, I could hear C3P0 saying. "My parts are showing!" Once that's back in the system, I'll be a lot happier.

 

It's the 2600 clone that I'm waiting for. Possibly other things, but that 2600's talking to me.

 

And I'm still kinda-sorta tempted to check out a Deepmind.

 

Grey

[Theo Verelst]

Maybe I don't mean it as some sort of doubledutch serious suggestion, but why not make a business deal with Moog to continue the Voyager, according to the exact same specifications, for a reasonable price, to support the synth museum idea, as it were...

[GovernorSilver]

Any thoughts on Behringer recreating classic synths?

 

Paul

 

It'll get more synths into more hands.

 

There's other Superbooth 2018 stuff that interests me more, but more people getting synths could be a good thing.

 

 

 

[marino]

While I welcome the fact that many more musicians will be able to afford the classic vintage sounds (or something very close), I'm also afraid that Behringer will kill the business for the small manufacturers that are doing interesting new analog instruments, like Dreadbox, Hypersynth, MFB, Analogue Solutions, etc. They don't have the financial power to make and sell synths at such low costs, so if everybody is buying the Behringer stuff, they're likely to find themselves in trouble at some point, and/or to start thinking that designing new instrument isn't worth anymore.

[Doerfler]

excellent post, Carlo. Love your new avatar BTW.

[Tom Williams]

why not make a business deal with Moog to continue the Voyager, according to the exact same specifications, for a reasonable price

I think I've found the flaw in your suggestion.

[GovernorSilver]

While I welcome the fact that many more musicians will be able to afford the classic vintage sounds (or something very close), I'm also afraid that Behringer will kill the business for the small manufacturers that are doing interesting new analog instruments, like Dreadbox, Hypersynth, MFB, Analogue Solutions, etc. They don't have the financial power to make and sell synths at such low costs, so if everybody is buying the Behringer stuff, they're likely to find themselves in trouble at some point, and/or to start thinking that designing new instrument isn't worth anymore.

 

Fair enough concerns, though a Dreadbox Erebus 3 3VCO semimodular is only 499 Euros - not much more than Behringer's Neutron 2VCO semimodular. Also, Dreadbox sells DIY synth kits for lower cost.

[marino]

excellent post, Carlo. Love your new avatar BTW.

Thanks Dave. For the records, the system kept rejecting my attempts to link to an avatar no matter what format, until I tried PNG. Go figure.

 

a Dreadbox Erebus 3 3VCO semimodular is only 499 Euros - not much more than Behringer's Neutron 2VCO semimodular. Also, Dreadbox sells DIY synth kits for lower cost.

This is correct. Also the new MFB Dominion Club is competitively priced. However, other brands like Analogue Solutions, Vermona, or Hypersynth, which are used to price their instruments a bit higher (and offer very good quality design and build in return) could suffer from the "Behringer effect". I would hate to see the Xenophone going out of production, for example; it's one of my favorite modern analogs. Also the Perfourmer, Vostok, Polymath, etc.

 

OTOH, I don't think that brands like Moog or DSI will suffer too much, as they seem to target a different market sector.

 

A final consideration: If the Behringer clones will bring the prices of some vintage instruments to a more realistic level, that could only be a good thing to me.

[Muad’Dib]

Also, Behringer is adding a few things, that were not on the original synths. Like a sequencer, and light up LED's on their Odyssey. I was surprised that they were able to have full size keys with their, Odyssey. Where as when KORG introduced their ARP Odyssey, the used slim keys, and a smaller design. Too help keep the cost down. Even though, they did eventually build one's with full size keys.

 

I can see the concern over hurting smaller synthesizer, manufactures. I thought the reason for Behringer doing this? Was, because the prices for the original synths, are out of the average synth players budget.

[Quai34]

When Korg Released their Odyssey, I was close to but one but the mini keys and no memories were a dal broker for me. But when they released the full size one, it was the price , 1500$ was too much, so may be the Mdule at 650 USD (800 Can$ for me...) but I like so much the Aesthetic of the Origina that if the Berhinger comes at that price, I think I will buy one....

But we don't know the price yet, maybe even them they are not sur how to positioning it in the market, the build quality seems awesome plus Klark Tecknic effects and a lot of ads on?

Yes, I agree, DSI who has stared with a lot of Mono cheap synths is now alone on the high end market for polysynth with an offering that couldn't be match at that time...

[Marzzz]

While I welcome the fact that many more musicians will be able to afford the classic vintage sounds (or something very close), I'm also afraid that Behringer will kill the business for the small manufacturers that are doing interesting new analog instruments, like Dreadbox, Hypersynth, MFB, Analogue Solutions, etc. They don't have the financial power to make and sell synths at such low costs, so if everybody is buying the Behringer stuff, they're likely to find themselves in trouble at some point, and/or to start thinking that designing new instrument isn't worth anymore.

I would venture that with all of these cheap synths becoming ubiquitous, that there may be a market for people who want something unique.

 

But yeah, I wouldn't mind seeing an Ulipter 8...

[SteveCoscia]

The Behringer folks have not been idle. Looks well-developed.

[Bill H.]

Wish Behringer would work something like this up for their Model D. Doesn't have to be a Minimoog copy. Three octaves of full sized keys along with a larger front panel, and I'd be good

[MojoGuyPan]

I just love what Behringer is doing. They are killing it. The D, the DeepMind, now the Odyssey, the string machine vocoder and Pro One plus the drum machines. Uli is really listening to the people and giving the them what they want.

 

The DeepMind and D sound amazing. If they can do that with the Odyssey and the Pro One mannah will rain down from the heavens. And with the UB-X in the works...

[dglcomp]

As for price apparently Uli has stated on the other forum that they are targeting sub $500!, that's cheaper than even the smaller korg clone even without behringer's additions.

[jimkost2002]

While I welcome the fact that many more musicians will be able to afford the classic vintage sounds (or something very close), I'm also afraid that Behringer will kill the business for the small manufacturers that are doing interesting new analog instruments, like Dreadbox, Hypersynth, MFB, Analogue Solutions, etc. They don't have the financial power to make and sell synths at such low costs, so if everybody is buying the Behringer stuff, they're likely to find themselves in trouble at some point, and/or to start thinking that designing new instrument isn't worth anymore.

 

I totally agree, Carlo!

 

While Im happy to see the classic synths at plebian prices, I, too, fear a real fallout for the boutique/independent manufacturers.

 

Also, I dont see the Behringer D lasting 40 years like a real Minimoog (original or reissue).

Seems like Behinger may be the Payless of synths.....

 

Ive played a Deepmind. Its cool, but I wonder about how long itll hold up past the 5-7 year life cycle of most modern digital keyboards....

 

I DO like the idea of a sub $999 Odyssey......but.....

[GovernorSilver]

I would venture that with all of these cheap synths becoming ubiquitous, that there may be a market for people who want something unique.

 

I agree. Macbeth and Studio Electronics for example, got started making Moog-inspired synths, and have survived despite the rebirth of Moog Music and Behringer's D clone. I think branching out with their designs and adding to their product lines helped.

[SteveCoscia]

I can't stop watching these videos (ARP Odyssey, Roland SH-101 & TR-808, etc.). It's a good time to be a sixty something year old baby boomer with a little spare cash and musical retirement plans.

 

What most impresses me about Behringer is their R & D, marketing and PR execution. I would have loved to be a fly on the wall during the "Which products should we clone?" meeting(s).

 

If the functionality and quality match the buzz, then Behringer's list of legacy clones will likely expand.

 

How far will Behringer go? CS-80, ARP Chroma, Jupiter 8, etc. etc. etc.

[jimkost2002]

 

What most impresses me about Behringer is their R & D, marketing and PR execution. I would have loved to be a fly on the wall during the "Which products should we clone?" meeting(s).

 

If the functionality and quality match the buzz, then Behringer's list of legacy clones will likely expand.

 

How far will Behringer go? CS-80, ARP Chroma, Jupiter 8, etc. etc. etc.

 

 

I lke the way you think, Steve....

From your mouth to Uli Behringers ears!

[MojoGuyPan]

I'm sure at the Behringer product development meetings they just pull up that other synth related forum on the projector and see which synth threads are the longest. "Jupiter 8, 102 pages, that one's next. Ralf, go buy a working one one ebay and let's reverse engineer that puppy, Roland won't give us the schematics anymore."

[Rod S]

As far as impact to other manufacturers, I think that ship has sailed. I think Behringer has sunk their teeth into this and we'll see what the market has to do to adjust. I doubt somebody who would buy the high-end stuff would now buy Behringer.

 

Behringer has made a huge difference in the music market here. Given that we pay about 2x what is paid in the US and purchasing power is less, their gear has allowed people to buy gear they normally wouldn't afford, several retailers carry them and they treat the market here seriously. I still haven't heard back from the one DSI authorized retailer after a few contacts, the Korg importers are jerks, and so forth.

 

I agree with Steve's point. Great time to be a synth enthusiast and have some extra cash. I hope they keep releasing them as tabletops.

[Desert Rat]

I must have missed something along the line here. How is it that Behringer can market this synth using the name Odyssey and making it look like the original ARP (even with add-ons) and not be in violation of some type of copyright law? I know that Korg partnered with David Friend, but I can't imagine he would do that again, especially with a competing manufacturer.

 

Yes, it has additional features that would be nice to have, but as my grandfather would say, "Just something else to go wrong with it."

 

I'll stick with my Korg FS Mk 1 for the time being.

[burningbusch]

I would argue that these smaller boutique synth makers have placed as much pressure on the majors as the other way around. According to the Modulargrid website there are 6,398 eurorack modules available from well over 100 manufacturers. How many dollars are going into the hands of these smaller manufacturers that would have gone to only a few top majors in the past? If you think Behringer introducing even a dozen modules into the eurorack marketplace is going to have a sizeable negative effect, think again. The business model for a boutique and a Behringer are completely different. So long as the small players create unique, interesting synths, they should do fine, relatively speaking. This synth renaissance isn't going to last forever and will undoubtedly contract at some point. But the opportunities for small manufacturers are much greater today than in the 1970s-1980s. Today, it is far easier to sell directly to customers and with minimal marketing expenses. Look at someone like John Bowen who has been selling the Solarius for years now. He's only sold a few hundred, but he's been able to keep things going with lot sizes of 50 at a time. He sells direct and gets 100% of the revenue vs. a much smaller cut if needed to rely on resellers/distributors. When Behringer was looking at redoing the Roland Vocoder (the Behringer VC340), they were looking at minimum production levels of ~1,000 units to get to the price point they were looking for. That might not sound like a lot, but it actually is for that type of keyboard in this market. Remember the inexpensive Roland Boutiques are all limited production runs, some of only a few thousand units. And you can still pretty much find any of these around (with the exception of the JU-06). I don't know how many DeepMinds they've manufactured. I do know you can find them at steep discounts, less than 1.5 years since their introduction. So selling the number of units Behringer needs to make all this work for them isn't a slamdunk by any stretch.

 

Busch.

[MojoGuyPan]

This synth renaissance isn't going to last forever and will undoubtedly contract at some point.

 

We are definitely nearing peak analog. The synth bubble will burst and these modules and keyboards will end up buried in an Albuquerque landfill alongside the E.T. cartridges.

 

Get 'em while you can. I sure am planning to, you know Behringer is going to be selling them for half of what Korg is. It's a great time to be alive.

[SteveCoscia]

Does anyone know if Behringer's ARP Odyssey clone is due out prior to this year's end? Would be nice for Christmas.

[Synthoid]

I didn't see it on their website as a current product yet.

 

:idk

[Stokely]

I'd like to see them do something "similar yet different" and not focus as much on copying the past. Basically, what these original manufacturers did. Add more functionality (as they appear to be doing) and modularity/flexibility. Case in point, though it's software: U-he's Diva, which emulates a number of analog synths in "spirit" but allows mixing and matching of emulated filters etc.

 

And as I've said before, I'd love Behringer to make a clonewheel, better yet something like the Nord Electro with one of their synths built in

 

They do appear to be killing it, I LOVE my Behringer 404hd interface to death...worked without a single hiccup for almost 2 years, is quiet, sounds great, is 4x4 with midi ports for 79 bucks. Anyone doing a "hobby studio", this would be a strong recommendation for an interface that works and saves a fair bit of $.