Gary75 Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 So a year and a half ago I loaned out my C3/122 to a player. Now this player is well known, you'd all know him. Anyway, he was backing a local young band. Now the organ and Leslie had been at my fathers since and rarely played as I'm no longer living at home and the space wasn't available at my current place. I had noticed it had an issue with the horn driver when I occasionally played it at dads but thought oh well another job to do. Anyway, it's going out again with this same guy only for a major charity gig in the region in a few weeks, so I thought I'd give the organ a once over today and Leslie. However on opening the Leslie I immediately noticed the Jensen driver had been messed with. It's been swapped out for a faulty one. One of the bolts is missing and whoever it was has used a screw used on the back panels to replace it. Now I can't point fingers this late in the day but all I will say is that one of his Leslie's had a faulty driver. The young band he was backing also had a keys player who I believe has a Hammond. So now it's down to two people, one of whom is borrowing it again. I just can't believe it was him though, he's a respected organist and was in one of the worlds biggest bands in the 80s. But it's left me feeling very deflated, I barely charged as it was to borrow it, and now I'm faced with having to possibly fit a new voice coil. I noticed the oil is missing out the organ too. I'll let it go out but this time I'm putting security labels on all panels. That's it though, I am finished doing favours Just gutted people can be so uncaring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tfort Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 Dont let it go, ask about it. Hopefully the other musicians can discuss a problem like adults. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nadroj Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 That sucks. I wouldn't let that go either. Not in an angry or accusatory way, but in a "I couldn't help but notice this..." kind of way. Hammond SKX Mainstage 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowMan Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 Definitely confront him - well before it goes out again. If he isn't willing to address it, I would cancel the loan/rental in a heartbeat. Regardless of who pulled the swap, HE was responsible for the safekeeping of your rig. Being famous gets him no slack in my book. You did him a major favor and got screwed. How disrespectful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Muscara Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 This might be a stupid question, but are you sure you got your Leslie back and somehow someone didn't (possibly accidentally) give you the wrong one? "I'm so crazy, I don't know this is impossible! Hoo hoo!" - Daffy Duck "The good news is that once you start piano you never have to worry about getting laid again. More time to practice!" - MOI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Lobo Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 Tell him exactly what you told us here. See what he says. Say that this is why you don't want to loan it out to him again. I had noticed it had an issue with the horn driver when I occasionally played it ... so I thought I'd give the organ a once over today and Leslie. However on opening the Leslie I immediately noticed the Jensen driver had been messed with. It's been swapped out for a faulty one. One of the bolts is missing and whoever it was has used a screw used on the back panels to replace it. These are only my opinions, not supported by any actual knowledge, experience, or expertise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary75 Posted January 20, 2018 Author Share Posted January 20, 2018 I'll not be able to sleep until I confront him, so I have text him to call me. Can any of you guys date this driver that's in here. This is what's in. My 122 was totally stock, it was bought with the C-3 from new. Is it compatible with Leslie date? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Wright Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 I'd be pretty angry too. Total lack of respect someone's part. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary75 Posted January 20, 2018 Author Share Posted January 20, 2018 It's the fact it was so blatant that they stuck a back panel screw in to hold the driver in. I had oil tied inside the organ, bastards got that too. So now I need another V-21 plus a bolt. If any of you guys have a decent one you can sell and can ship to UK, I'm all ears Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Lobo Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 I'd be pretty angry too. Total lack of respect someone's part. More than lack of respect, you've been ripped off. Someone has fcuked with your very valuable gear. If I found out somebody had replaced my rare vintage tenor sax with some junk Chinese copy, I'd call the police. These are only my opinions, not supported by any actual knowledge, experience, or expertise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary75 Posted January 20, 2018 Author Share Posted January 20, 2018 Still waiting on a call back.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RABid Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 Back in the 80's my bass player talked me into loaning my Hammond and Leslie to a guitarist friend of his for a show. Never heard back from him. Started inquiring and found that he sold the organ to a church, moved out of state and took the Leslie with him. I don't loan things any more. This post edited for speling. My Sweetwater Gear Exchange Page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MathOfInsects Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 More than lack of respect, you've been ripped off. Someone has fcuked with your very valuable gear. This. No moderation is necessary, call the guy and ask if some kind of mix-up might have occurred, because X, Y and Z. Ask if he minds if you look at the other guy's cab to see if maybe they were switched or maybe some parts got switched around. This gives the idiot a chance to pretend it was an oops, and gets your parts back. But don't let it go. That's theft, plain and simple. Now out! "Mind the Gap," a 24-song album of new material. www.joshweinstein.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Wright Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 I'd be pretty angry too. Total lack of respect someone's part. More than lack of respect, you've been ripped off. Someone has fcuked with your very valuable gear. That is true. The person who borrowed/rented the gear may not even be aware some shenanigans had occurred, showing lack of due diligence in the care of the gear. If they did know, then they are complicit. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary75 Posted January 20, 2018 Author Share Posted January 20, 2018 Mine was the only Leslie on stage that night, so someone's brought another driver to swap it. I see no reason to mess with it unless you were swapping the driver over. There's no way I or my father (and he looks after my gear) would have stuck a back panel screw in it. Trouble is I just don't know who was around at the time. It wasn't collected until the day after gig. I think the horrible fact is knowing the chap I loaned it to had a faulty driver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanL Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 Definitely confront him - well before it goes out again. If he isn't willing to address it, I would cancel the loan/rental in a heartbeat. Regardless of who pulled the swap, HE was responsible for the safekeeping of your rig. Being famous gets him no slack in my book. You did him a major favor and got screwed. How disrespectful. This... Live: Korg Kronos 2 88, Nord Electro 5d Nord Lead A1 Toys: Roland FA08, Novation Ultranova, Moog LP, Roland SP-404SX, Roland JX10,Emu MK6 www.bksband.com www.echoesrocks.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roygBiv Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 Wow, that really does suck, my condolences. Hate it when people take advantage of trusting people. One thought though - before you assume theft, it is possible that instead of stealing your driver, they first blew yours out by accident, tried replacing it so you wouldn"t know, then blew that one out too. I realize that would not explain the missing oil, but could be an explanation that is (slightly) less scummy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyRude Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 Being famous gets him no slack in my book. This... Cosign. In fact, being successful and famous in some cases seems like a license to mistreat equipment and people. Not all of course, but there are plenty of a-holes at all levels of the musical and economic spectrum. In some cases you know in advance. One time, JLL wanted to rent my CP-70. I said no, pretty much anticipating that he would jump up and down on it, kick the keys and probably even light it on fire. In retrospect, maybe I should have gone ahead and rented it. Although the piano probably would be pretty badly damaged, my rig would have been touched by greatness and would have made for a good story :-) Some music I've recorded and played over the years with a few different bands Tommy Rude Soundcloud Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary75 Posted January 20, 2018 Author Share Posted January 20, 2018 It's unlikely, in the UK you can't just pull a V-21 out of thin air. The gig was 150 miles from players home where he could have swapped his out. That would have had to happen in hours as it came back next morning. I really wouldn't have minded if he had blew it out on a gig, these things happen and as long as the cost was footed by him then that's fine. But to have people going into your equipment, equipment which you need a certain amount of knowledge to keep going, well it's like I've been burgled, the same feeling. Decided it's not going out now, because if it does I'm only going to spend the week it's out, anxious and worried. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Lobo Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 Decided it's not going out now, because if it does I'm only going to spend the week it's out, anxious and worried. And that's the point. The stress is not worth it. These are only my opinions, not supported by any actual knowledge, experience, or expertise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WesG Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 I don't trust Leslie UK serial numbers, so won't comment on that. The V21 in the photos was made the 26th week of 1973. When were the motors and woofer made? Does the shelf have a stamp? Do you have any pictures of the V21 from years ago, par chance? Wes Hammond: L111, M100, M3, BC, CV, Franken CV, A100, D152, C3, B3 Leslie: 710, 760, 51C, 147, 145, 122, 22H, 31H Yamaha: CP4, DGX-620, DX7II-FD-E!, PF85, DX9 Roland: VR-09, RD-800 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floyd Tatum Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 Mine was the only Leslie on stage that night, so someone's brought another driver to swap it. I see no reason to mess with it unless you were swapping the driver over. There's no way I or my father (and he looks after my gear) would have stuck a back panel screw in it. Trouble is I just don't know who was around at the time. It wasn't collected until the day after gig. I think the horrible fact is knowing the chap I loaned it to had a faulty driver. I don't think you mentioned it, so I have to ask: have you asked your father about it? You said he looks after your gear - maybe there's an innocent explanation there? Worth asking, I should think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mate stubb Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 You can easily get replacement diaphragms for your V21 from Tonewheel General. I changed many a diaphragm myself in the old days, got another one to do soon when my current diaphragm expires. http://www.tonewheelgeneral.com/build_page.php?category=Speakers&subcat=Drivers Moe --- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spider76 Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 If it's only your word against his (you have no photos/serials of your gear before you loaned it to him), confront him. If you have proof, I think theft is still considered a crime and you can proceed with legal action to have your gear fully refurbished. At the very least, threaten legal actions by pretending you have pics and serials, and see how he reacts. He screwed you and you gear, no need to be polite or play fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Loving Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 Don't let him have another bite. "Forget it, Jake. It's Chinatown." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I-missRichardTee Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 Many many moons ago, I brought a super valuable ( in the mid tens of thousand now, but this was then ) elec bass to a guitar shop in the NY Village. Young and naive, I left it with him ( I will never do this again: read. naive ) When I came back, he went into the back, then on returning he said he could not find it! I threatened him with his life, if I did not get the approx value in cash from him, in payments which he did. Else I would be in jail. I am not accusing you of a thing.. on the contrary you have my empathy sympathy and whatever else there might be from one who has been there. I offer you my mentor's words of wisdom... maybe they do not apply, but he is so wise, I think it is worth a shot... so I give you Dr Jordan Peterson [video:youtube] and if the Dr did not turn you off, there is this: [video:youtube] You don't have ideas, ideas have you We see the world, not as it is, but as we are. "One mans food is another mans poison". I defend your right to speak hate. Tolerance to a point, not agreement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Emm Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 Don't loan out anything you aren't willing to lose, even to a high-level friend, unless some sort of compensation in case of Oops is discussed first. If they don't drop it off a stage via sweaty hands, someone will walk by and spill a drink on it. The less you expect Murphy, the better the chance that he'll walk by drunk, trip over a cable and knock five keys out of the middle of the instrument with the back of his head. I borrowed a synth for a show and left two 19" effects 'on deposit' until I brought it back. That's one doable idea. Just plan ahead and be wary. "Well, the 60s were fun, but now I'm payin' for it." ~ Stan Lee, "Ant-Man and the Wasp" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WesG Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 Moe - the diaphragms aren't OE, they were made for an Atlas driver IIRC. The coil is shorter and there is something funny with the leads. I forget the details, never used one, just be prepared for some fiddling. Hammond: L111, M100, M3, BC, CV, Franken CV, A100, D152, C3, B3 Leslie: 710, 760, 51C, 147, 145, 122, 22H, 31H Yamaha: CP4, DGX-620, DX7II-FD-E!, PF85, DX9 Roland: VR-09, RD-800 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary75 Posted January 21, 2018 Author Share Posted January 21, 2018 I don't trust Leslie UK serial numbers, so won't comment on that. The V21 in the photos was made the 26th week of 1973. When were the motors and woofer made? Does the shelf have a stamp? Do you have any pictures of the V21 from years ago, par chance? Wes Right, thanks Wes. In that case I think that is the original V-21 as it dates with the C3. I'm now thinking they've blown it and had it out and stuck it back with a back panel screw. God knows where the original bolt is. Had the woofer out incase it had fallen in. I'll have to check behind the baffle. Either way, they've been messed with including my oil going missing, so that's it no more. I do have another V-21 in the garage from a 760 which I believe is the same, I can't recall them not being different ohms. Sure all V-21's were 16 ohms. Had a look at my other Leslie and that has a V-20 in, which I believe is an older type? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markyboard Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 Moe - the diaphragms aren't OE, they were made for an Atlas driver IIRC. The coil is shorter and there is something funny with the leads. I forget the details, never used one, just be prepared for some fiddling. Are you sure Wes? It specifically says V21. I bought one a few months ago but have yet to install it. Replacement Diaphram (scroll down some) And to the OP, yeah, that sucks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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