HammondDave Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 Yeah, I was concerned when EV moved most of their manufacturing to China. My US built EV's was built like a brick shit house... and were the best sounding powered monitors I had ever heard. I am still kicking myself for selling them. When EV came out with the ZLX line I was hesitant as they were built in China. But I heard them in their room at NAMM and was very impressed. And for less than $300 how can you go wrong? So I took two to the gig and they sounded almost as good as my former $1200 EV SXA 360's. And three years later they are still playing strong. Unlike the QSC's, they have great even fidelity even at high SPL levels. '55 and '59 B3's; Leslies 147, 122, 21H; MODX 7+; NUMA Piano X 88; Motif XS7; Mellotrons M300 and M400’s; Wurlitzer 206; Gibson G101; Vox Continental; Mojo 61; Launchkey 88 Mk III; Korg Module; B3X; Model D6; Moog Model D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karl Schmeer Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 . Unlike the QSC's, they have great even fidelity even at high SPL levels. This!! MPCX, RD-800, Vsynth, Matrix 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synthaholic Posted December 5, 2016 Author Share Posted December 5, 2016 I'm buying the EV first thing Monday morning (Pro Audio Star is closed on the weekend), but I just saw this and was wondering if it was worth picking up as a backup or if it's total crap. It's the Stupid Deal Of The Day, at $99, but I'm inclined to believe all Gemini is total crap. Opinions? http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/gemini-es-12p-12-abs-powered-loudspeaker All Gemini is total crap . Yeah, it was a fleeting idea, but all Gemini is crap. The fact there's a Highway To Hell and only a Stairway To Heaven says a lot about anticipated traffic numbers People only say "It's a free country" when they're doing something shitty-Demetri Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brenner13 Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 Both my JBL and QSC fail if the FOH board I plug into sends phantom power back to them. Thankfully they have always recovered after a cool-down period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoodyBluesKeys Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 I'm buying the EV first thing Monday morning (Pro Audio Star is closed on the weekend), but I just saw this and was wondering if it was worth picking up as a backup or if it's total crap. It's the Stupid Deal Of The Day, at $99, but I'm inclined to believe all Gemini is total crap. Opinions? http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/gemini-es-12p-12-abs-powered-loudspeaker My first pair of powered PA was Gemini - gave them to our church to use for vocals (they are OK for that). With my keyboards, there was a huge bump in response about an octave and half below middle C, so it would sound like C=70, D=70, E=70 F=150, G=70 or thereabouts. My JBLs, EVs, and QSCs all sound much better. So, I agree with the generally expressed theorem thta Gemini sound like yuck. Howard Grand|Hamm SK1-73|Kurz PC2|PC2X|PC3|PC3X|PC361; QSC K10's HP DAW|Epi Les Paul & LP 5-str bass|iPad mini2 "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synthaholic Posted December 31, 2016 Author Share Posted December 31, 2016 OK, first off, I absolutely love this Electro-Voice ZLX12P. It's a little larger than I imagined, but that's fine. But it's light, very powerful, and sounds great. Unfortunately, ProAudioStar would not budge on the $349 unless I was buying more than one (although he implied that I'd have to buy more than 2 to get a deal), so I called my guy at Sweetwater who sold it to me for $349. No biggie. Thanks to all who recommended it - I'm looking to pick up a 2nd one in a few months. Both my JBL and QSC fail if the FOH board I plug into sends phantom power back to them. Thankfully they have always recovered after a cool-down period. OMG! I was just packing my car to the rafters with extra gear for my big New Year's Eve gig tonight, including my still-working JBL. Only because I remembered your post, brenner13, I plugged in my blown JBL in the garage, and it came on!!!! So I'm bringing that along, too! Hopefully, it has 'recovered'. Thanks so much. The fact there's a Highway To Hell and only a Stairway To Heaven says a lot about anticipated traffic numbers People only say "It's a free country" when they're doing something shitty-Demetri Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CEB Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 Too much speaker for most keyboard players but the EV EXTs are killer. "It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne "A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!! So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ensenada Guide Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 JBL isn´t what is was in the past. It´s just only a sticker being put on a cab made cheapo in china. A.C. Company is not willing to pay what workers are paid in the u.s www.ensenadatourguide.com https://www.facebook.com/ldstourguide Will give tours for Keyboards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I-missRichardTee Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 In defense of JBL the first thing is WHICH JBL? Should the name JBL be bad mouthed without being more specific? I was late for work tonight ( New years Eve ) and played my JBL eon 15" Generation 2 on a low volume gig, me on elec bass.. in a piano and drums trio. There is some x quality to that Eon 15 that I cannot get on my regular amp ( a Markbass f 500 w Genz Benz 12 ) and on many amps I have tried. Now original compaint was a 510 JBL - I know zip about that pwr speaker. What modern day JBL pwred amp/cab competes with or eclipses the now ancient JBL G2 15" Eon? The Eon had issues with high pitch emissions of unwanted sounds. But I found it a very versatile combo. Vocals, B3 sounds, Piano sounds, left hand bass and even elec bass sounds ( at reasonable levels ) I own 2 Q S C 10" and one of the two models discussed here, inexpensive EV 15" whose model name I cannot recall. The Eon surpasses all of these in some ways. I cannot say it is clearly better, but it is certainly not inferior Again, what current model Eon or otherwise, bests the old Eon G2 15? You don't have ideas, ideas have you We see the world, not as it is, but as we are. "One mans food is another mans poison". I defend your right to speak hate. Tolerance to a point, not agreement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockinroller Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 I had a pair of JBL 515XT powered speakers and they worked fine--when they worked. Both had a habit of basically shutting down (the power lights were on but no output, etc). Generally I'd have to turn them off completely for a while and restart them in order for them to provide output again. At a cost of nearly $1000 for both I figured I could do better. I took a chance and purchased a pair of Alto Trusonic (TS112A and 115A) cabs and what a difference in quality, build, and output! I haven't looked back (other than recently trading those for the newer TS212A cabs with a bit more headroom). About 1/2 the price of the JBLs and--for me anyway--as good or better than anything I've had in the past. Kurzweil PC4-7 Kurzweil Artis 7 Alto TS312 Powered Speakers (2) Samson 6 channel mixer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzmammal Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 Company is not willing to pay what workers are paid in the u.s No, WE are not willing to pay what it would COST the company to make them in the US. Ask this question: Would YOU pay $200 more for that JBL 510 if it was US made? If the answer is an honest no, there it is. Virtually everybody on this forum will price shop anything to death on internet. If they find a comparable product ten bucks cheaper somewhere, that company gets the sale most of the time. Nobody cares where it's made until it dies and that doesn't help a US company who's trying to justify a higher price. Bob Hammond SK1, Mojo 61, Kurzweil PC3, Korg Pa3x, Roland FA06, Band in a Box, Real Band, Studio One, too much stuff... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mate stubb Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 JBL's problem is not where they are made. JBL's problem is that they are not designed well enough to dissipate the heat they generate in use, and they go into thermal shutdown. Many other companies do not have this problem. Moe --- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoodyBluesKeys Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 ^^ this JBL puts a thermistor in their powered PA heads that measures the temperature of the heat sink. It connects to the integrated circuit power amplifier(s), and greatly reduces the amp gain to protect the amp from thermal runaway. Does keep from having to replace amplifiers. However, side effect is long gig, gets too hot, shuts gain down, becomes unusable. This has been true at least since the EON10G2. Howard Grand|Hamm SK1-73|Kurz PC2|PC2X|PC3|PC3X|PC361; QSC K10's HP DAW|Epi Les Paul & LP 5-str bass|iPad mini2 "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HammondDave Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 The problem is that JBL still thinks that their A7's are state of the art.... '55 and '59 B3's; Leslies 147, 122, 21H; MODX 7+; NUMA Piano X 88; Motif XS7; Mellotrons M300 and M400’s; Wurlitzer 206; Gibson G101; Vox Continental; Mojo 61; Launchkey 88 Mk III; Korg Module; B3X; Model D6; Moog Model D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markay Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 JBL's problem is not where they are made. JBL's problem is that they are not designed well enough to dissipate the heat they generate in use, and they go into thermal shutdown. Many other companies do not have this problem. This^^^, no-one complains about their iPhone or iPad and guess where they are made. MIC is all down to the design, who you contract to make it and your QC. A misguided plumber attempting to entertain | MainStage 3 | Axiom 61 2nd Gen | Pianoteq | B5 | XK3c | EV ZLX 12P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meta Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 My JBL 510's tweeter failed last year at an outdoor gig when I was just using it as a stage monitor for guitar, violin and mandolin. Don't know if it's the driver, the amp or both that failed. It worked faithfully for years before it blew but after reading the OP here I wonder if it's worth fixing. Since then I've been using an EV ZLX12P speaker for instrument monitoring, which works fine and is probably better when I play keyboards. But do miss the lighter weight of the JBL. The EV is reasonably light for what it is, but the JBL is half the weight which is especially helpful when I'm hauling multiple instruments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synthaholic Posted January 2, 2017 Author Share Posted January 2, 2017 Well, the "blown" JBL worked flawlessly on my New Years Eve gig. I used both up on poles, along with my JBL 15" subwoofer, and also used my new EV sitting on top of the subwoofer. I had volume to spare, and no issues. Although, now everytime I use those JBLs I'm going to feel like I have to bring along a spare backup. So I may just sell them while they are both working well and looking like brand new (I have the Gator bags for each). Would YOU pay $200 more for that JBL 510 if it was US made? If the answer is an honest no, there it is. I think it's the way you frame that question. If you say "it's made in China and will last 4 years, for $400" OR "it's made in the U.S. with better components and will last 8 years, for $600" - yeah, I will pay the extra $200. The fact there's a Highway To Hell and only a Stairway To Heaven says a lot about anticipated traffic numbers People only say "It's a free country" when they're doing something shitty-Demetri Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WesG Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 For what it's worth.....Yorkville moved a bunch of their manufacturing back to Canada a few years ago. Prices were not affected. I'm quite happy to have "Made In Canada" gear, and they have Made In Canada stickers. They are not as cheap as EV ZLX (far from it), but they sell a lot of product anyhow. And they (at least the NX55P series) tolerate phantom power and sound great IMO. The Parasource PS12P is an amazing speaker. You basically don't need subs unless you are playing EDM or enormous rooms. Hammond: L111, M100, M3, BC, CV, Franken CV, A100, D152, C3, B3 Leslie: 710, 760, 51C, 147, 145, 122, 22H, 31H Yamaha: CP4, DGX-620, DX7II-FD-E!, PF85, DX9 Roland: VR-09, RD-800 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WesG Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 Karl - vibration failure is not a common failure mode in any quality powered speaker. When you buy a quality powered speaker, you get a cab, drivers, amps, crossover, limiter, and other processing which is all matched and intended to work together. The engineering that goes into a kilobuck powered speaker is definitely a non-trivial value-add, and the #1 reason why I am a fan of powered speakers. The good ones sound great. Hammond: L111, M100, M3, BC, CV, Franken CV, A100, D152, C3, B3 Leslie: 710, 760, 51C, 147, 145, 122, 22H, 31H Yamaha: CP4, DGX-620, DX7II-FD-E!, PF85, DX9 Roland: VR-09, RD-800 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ITGITC Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 ^^ this JBL puts a thermistor in their powered PA heads that measures the temperature of the heat sink. It connects to the integrated circuit power amplifier(s), and greatly reduces the amp gain to protect the amp from thermal runaway. Does keep from having to replace amplifiers. However, side effect is long gig, gets too hot, shuts gain down, becomes unusable. This has been true at least since the EON10G2. Happy New Year, Jim! And this probably explains why my original EON-PAK has an intermittent problem of not working. And that's frustrating when you drive to another city to have a technician look at it... and it plays beautifully. Of course, the tech says, "I can't fix an intermittent problem. Go home, make it stop working for sure, then bring it back to me." "Music expresses that which cannot be put into words and that which cannot remain silent." - Victor Hugo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoodyBluesKeys Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 Happy New Year, Tom! I got the information from taking the EON 10G2 apart and finding that the whole amplifier is combined into a single power IC. Looked up the specs on that IC, and found that the thermistor is used for protection, and can cut down the volume by 20 to 30 db (which is enough to make it unusable). The 15G2 has never given me the problem, only had a power switch problem on one of them. I'm not sure if the amps in it are the same type or different (it might just be that the 15 has a LOT more power than the 10, so I never drove it hard enough to go into overheat mode). I would expect that it saved them from a lot of warranty calls with destroyed amps. They do cool down enough to work again, but it takes a while. The pair of 10's have worked just fine for a number of years, since I re-purposed them to use on my wife's PC2X - they are never pushed into overheating. I'd use the 15s more if they were smaller, lighter, and had handles that worked better - but then, they would no longer be 15s. One works very nicely in my church setup as my monitor. I have three DIs with mono feeds to FOH (from PC2, PC3, and iPad, autoharp, or bass guitar), and the three channel mixer in the EON 15 means I don't need a separate mixer. Have the bags for them also. I'd sell the spare one if it would bring enough of the original cost to make it worthwhile. Howard Grand|Hamm SK1-73|Kurz PC2|PC2X|PC3|PC3X|PC361; QSC K10's HP DAW|Epi Les Paul & LP 5-str bass|iPad mini2 "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timwat Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 Well, everyone's gone Class D these days, which makes sense for the sake of size, weight, and thermal efficiency vs. Class AB amps. But thermal considerations still exist whenever there's amplification. Yorkville and EV seem to have efficient passive cooling designs. QSC and Yamaha build a fan into their Class D amp panels. JBL doesn't have a fan, but sounds like it might benefit from one. .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synthaholic Posted January 2, 2017 Author Share Posted January 2, 2017 Maybe I should order these small fans to Velcro to the back of these JBLs (I could even use a thin black bungee that would hardly be visible). Does anyone think it would help? http://i.imgur.com/4UJlo4d.png The fact there's a Highway To Hell and only a Stairway To Heaven says a lot about anticipated traffic numbers People only say "It's a free country" when they're doing something shitty-Demetri Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryjam Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 I know a singer-songwriter who loves her EON-15 G2s but was told by a tech that when one began making intermittent noise that JBL no longer supplies replacement electronic boards for these. I personally love my whole bunch of SRX-700 series mains, monitors, and subwoofers, and I think many people also like the equivalent PRX powered versions. But I may have purchased my stuff at the height of JBL respectability. I know many hated the JRX stuff even years ago. Barry Home: Steinway L, Montage 8 Gigs: Yamaha CP88, Crumar Mojo 61, A&H SQ5 mixer, ME1 IEM, MiPro 909 IEMs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Harrison Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 I once had a JBL EON15 G2 (21 kg/46 lb), which went to my son when I got a lighter 515XT (15 kg/33 lb). I now have a pair of 515XTs (15"), as well as a 518 (18" sub) and a 510 (10"). We have never had any problems with any of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groove58 Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 I use a JBL Eon 515XT with a Hammond XK1 and a Kurzweil SP4. I play left hand bass, and the JBL does a great job, but sometimes I need just a bit more low end grunt and don't have room for a subwoofer, so I am thinking of trying something else, possibly a QSC K12 or an EV ZLX12P or ZLX15P. Does anyone here know whether any of these can deliver more low end than the JBL 515XT? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HammondDave Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 I use a JBL Eon 515XT with a Hammond XK1 and a Kurzweil SP4. I play left hand bass, and the JBL does a great job, but sometimes I need just a bit more low end grunt and don't have room for a subwoofer, so I am thinking of trying something else, possibly a QSC K12 or an EV ZLX12P or ZLX15P. Does anyone here know whether any of these can deliver more low end than the JBL 515XT? The EV's? Yes... '55 and '59 B3's; Leslies 147, 122, 21H; MODX 7+; NUMA Piano X 88; Motif XS7; Mellotrons M300 and M400’s; Wurlitzer 206; Gibson G101; Vox Continental; Mojo 61; Launchkey 88 Mk III; Korg Module; B3X; Model D6; Moog Model D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulf Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 If you have any time at all, consider widening your search to include Turbosound's iQ series, which are getting rave reviews in pro audio forums. I'm sure I'd at least try to audition a pair if I were in the market. The iQ10 sells for around $500. Disclaimer: Turbosound is now a subsidiary of Music Group. If that spooks you, nevermind... Interesting that the Turbosound brand made it's way back again. Long time, no see. Rock bottom bass Fakebook Pro Sheet Music Reader - at every gig! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groove58 Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 ... I am thinking of trying something else, possibly a QSC K12 or an EV ZLX12P or ZLX15P. Does anyone here know whether any of these can deliver more low end than the JBL 515XT? The EV's? Yes... Thanks for your reply. Is the difference between the low end of the 12P and the 15P worth the difference in the size/weight/price? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HammondDave Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 ... I am thinking of trying something else, possibly a QSC K12 or an EV ZLX12P or ZLX15P. Does anyone here know whether any of these can deliver more low end than the JBL 515XT? The EV's? Yes... Thanks for your reply. Is the difference between the low end of the 12P and the 15P worth the difference in the size/weight/price? Not in my opinion. My 12's give me tons of LH Hammond bass. '55 and '59 B3's; Leslies 147, 122, 21H; MODX 7+; NUMA Piano X 88; Motif XS7; Mellotrons M300 and M400’s; Wurlitzer 206; Gibson G101; Vox Continental; Mojo 61; Launchkey 88 Mk III; Korg Module; B3X; Model D6; Moog Model D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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