rockinroller

Kurzweil checks all of your boxes. And the beauty of those is that if you don't like the factory sounds you can dive in and make literally 100's of parameter adjustments/adds/deletes/shaping, etc. etc. etc. and literally end up with what you are looking for. I currently gig with an Artis 7 which was discontinued a couple of years ago and cut my chops on their PC3 series boards when those came out. I've bought--and returned--just about every competitor and keep coming back to Kurz'.

I have been performing live in a classic rock trio (I play LH bass as well) for the past 6 years exclusively using Alto's for live output on stage and without connecting into the FOH system (also Alto's btw). Currently been gigging with a pair of TS312's and am impressed with not only the punchy power and tons of headroom, but also how those two speakers enhance the sound of both my B3 as well as "real" piano settings. For almost 1/3rd the cost of a QSC K10 or 12 (had them--returned them), the Alto TS series flies way under the radar and arguably represent one of the best values out there in sound reinforcement. The ONLY issue I had was blowing a tweeter as the highs are really hot coming out of these speakers. Easy adjustment since I use a small form mixer with 3-way EQ in between my keys and the speakers.

Kurzweil PC4-7 is my recommendation, coming from a trained pianist who evolved into electronic keyboard performing, especially emulating the B3, band and orchestral instruments and even guitars. The PC seems to cover all of the bases--plus if you're not completely satisfied with what the factory loaded into that instrument you can always learn how to get "inside" and essentially recreate just about anything you are looking for in the way of emulating an instrument, right down to the amount of air blowing through the sax's reed. And IMO you will never burn out with these instruments as the creativity--and re-creations--seem endless. And all at under 20lbs!!!

I have had extreme success with the PC3 Sound Editor, having used it (and the Artis S.E. for my other boards) for several years. On occasion I will get it to lock up or do something funky but honestly it has been a God-send for me. I love the opportunity to have all of the sounds and parameter adjustments reflected on my (27") computer screen while connected rather than trying to do everything on those tiny Kurzweil screens. Plus the entire book of parameters is right there via tabs when using the software interface.

IMO The Alto TS series are the best bang-for-the-buck out there, as far as powered speakers. I switched over to them when their 200 series came out (5 years ago?) after buying--and reselling--the QSC and Yamaha DXR models, and not being able to justify the investment. The only issue I've had during that time is blowing two tweeters at two different times, once due to a sudden burst of "buzz" from my board due to a bad cable and the other by just pushing the highs too much via the small-form mixer that I always use as an interface between my boards and the speakers. I currently use their TS312 and 315 models (I play LH bass in my trio and prefer the bottom end that that 15" provides), doing primarily outdoor events and venues. I never go through the mains, but rather my on-state wedges provide more than enough volume and punch on their own, and that's in tandem with a drummer and guitarist.

I don't think so. The price point coupled with the sequencer and other stuff that I'd never use will probably keep me from going that direction. I think I'll keep my eye out for a used PC3k or a and be done with buying boards for a while.

I ran that setup for years: Clonewheel and synth through one amp and the bass in my LH through a separate amp. I had good luck with GK (Gallien Krueger) combo bass amps with twin 10's and a tweeter. Reasonably light weight and very punchy. The only issue I had was that I continued to blow the tweeter due to the highs that were going through the amp from the keyboard. I discovered powered speakers and the rest is history, and I have not looked back. Despite the amount of bass I kick through my set up (two Alto TS312's), the clarity and separation between the parts is amazing. I never go through the PA system (Rock power trio) and have never been short of volume to fill rooms typically accommodating 60-200 people and outdoor events.

I ran that setup for years: Clonewheel and synth through one amp and the bass in my LH through a separate amp. I had good luck with GK (Gallien Krueger) combo bass amps with twin 10's and a tweeter. Reasonably light weight and very punchy. The only issue I had was that I continued to blow the tweeter due to the highs that were going through the amp from the keyboard. I discovered powered speakers and the rest is history, and I have not looked back. Despite the amount of bass I kick through my set up (two Alto TS312's), the clarity and separation between the parts is amazing. I never go through the PA system (Rock power trio) and have never been short of volume to fill rooms typically accommodating 60-200 people and outdoor events.

Late to the party (I don't get on this Forum that often). I've been a Kurz' fan for the past 10+ years, after their PC3 series came out. I was looking forward to the PC4 being the end-all for me: 88 keys yet less weight than their previous 76 note PC3, plus all of that wonderful new technology. However after all of the negative reviews regarding the new key bed which really didn't impress anyone that I could see, I held off in the hopes that their 76 note version would mitigate that negative factor. I ordered one sight-unseen a few months ago and it lasted all of 24 hours before I attached the return label and sent it back. The key bed and cheapness was enough for me to not want this, and no amount of "better" sounds and capabilities was going to change my opinion. I went back to my beloved Artis 7 as the mainstay for performing. If Kurzweil continues to make such dramatic compromises in its product quality and utility in trade for weight and cost concessions, I'll be looking elsewhere.

I'd go with the Alto TS312 instead of the 310. It's only a few dollars more and believe me--regardless of the specs--the bass kicks a lot better out of the 12. I play in a trio in which I also cover bass in my LH. Most of the right hand parts are either B3 sounds, real piano, E-piano, and sometimes orchestral sounds like horns and strings. I was able to compare the two speakers side by side as coincidentally our PA system consists of two 310's. I thought the difference--especially for my organ and LH bass sounds--would be subtle, but I was surprised to hear such a difference. Even the organ sounded "thicker" and more rich through the 12 than the 10's. The 312 is heavier (by just over 10 lbs) but IMO it's worth it. By the way, that single 312 is all I use for live output during our gigs (clubs usually under 120 capacity) and it's never "not enough".

I had a PC4 for a couple of days, then returned it. I HATED the key bed (very clunky IMO, compared to my Artis 7 and previous PC3 with the Fatar TP-8 semi-weighted keys (perfect hybrid for us organ + synth + piano players). The other big feature on their flagship Forte board and my Artis 7 is a quicker-than-Quick Access series of 10 buttons right in front of the center of the keys, close to the key bed, that I have found invaluable when switching settings quickly. I've assigned 10 settings, both in the Programs mode as well as Multi (so 20 in all), and that's been the single biggest reason I have struggled with the notion of replacing the Artis 7. Although I am being challenged with the recent announcement of the PC4-7 with the lighter, semi weighted keys.

The newer Kurzweils (from the PC3 forward) have TREMENDOUS potential but no one should ever be content just using them out-of-the-box. There is so much programming capability in these boards that to buy one and merely use it as is from the factory is a disservice to the owner. Like Dave, I've spent the last few years really getting inside the V.A.S.T. architecture that is a trademark of Kurzweil's newer boards and IMO you can literally get any factory sound in these boards to a point of accuracy and authenticity based on your personal expectations and perception. I've been through three different models of the Neo Vent, thinking I could improve on the internal rotary effects that I've honed in my Kurzweils, and have ended up reselling all three, being totally content with what I have internally. This, coming from someone who was born and raised on the real deal, performing professionally for 20+ years using a B3 and 1-2 real Leslie cabinets.

IMO the best measure of being "overpriced" is determined when you try to sell your board that you bought retail, and find out what it's worth--or buy one of those "overpriced" boards as an open-box or slightly used and see what the difference is from the prevailing retail prices. What I have noticed lacking in recent years is for manufacturers to have clearance prices on boards--especially those that were originally their flagship boards, but are no longer cutting edge in terms of technology. I think the last great deal I recall in that regard were the Kurzweil PC361's, that were cleared out by retailers for under $1000.

In the 60s I used a Farfisa Combo Compact Deluxe Organ and a Wurlitzer electric piano. The organ connected via 1/4" cable to a Leslie preamp box, then the multi pin out of that into a Leslie. The piano was plugged into a Fender Bassman amp that had four 12" speakers. In addition, I mic'd the upper rotor of the Leslie using a Shure microphone plugged into the same Fender amp. In 1969 I switched over to a Hammond Model A (not A 100) with twin 31H "phonebooth" Leslies. On top of that was an Arp Soloist synth, which I ran through a number of various amps. I recall set up time to be a lot quicker with the Hammond and Leslies, but I also recall needing to befriend guys with a pickup truck or van to assist when changing locations for gigs. Fortunately, back then, you'd be booked 4-6 nights a week at the same place for several weeks.

Going on 7 years with my Artis 7 and still never an issue. Despite all the technology that's come out on the market since I bought this, I am still sold on the '7 as my all-around go-to board.

{One odd thing I noticed though. when I plug the Alto into my Roland VR 730, it makes a very quiet but noticeable white noise type of sound anytime a key is engaged - but only with the organ setting (not pianos or synths). I've never heard or noticed this on any other speaker(s) I've used with that board. I wonder if it's the board, the speaker or some combination of the two.} I am wondering if your organ setting has some sort of distortion or crossover programmed into it, and the Alto is reproducing the sound so accurately (unlike your previous outputs) that you are now hearing it?

Sorry for the delayed reply. I am not often on this site, nor do I receive any email notification of a response to my posts. My review of the QSC k10.2 was that it didn't seem to have the 'clarity' I got from the inexpensive Altos. I had the same issue with the Yamaha DXR10 as well. Unfortunately a lot of my opinion may be driven by economics--at least to some extent. IMO I didn't think either the Yamaha or QSC warranted paying over twice as much for, compared to the Alto, and I believe the only advantage may be quality/warranty period, etc. Even at that, I have never had an issue with any of my Alto speakers other than a blown tweeter, which is an easy DIY replacement. There: I got ya' three paragraphs!

Mine arrived DOA. Even if that wasn't an issue I HATED the key bed. It was noisy--clackety--and felt cheap. IMO in this price point you're better off with an Artis 7 or the PC3k or a series used.

I really appreciate the recommendations and am seriously considering the alto TS308 or 310. I'm just curious though, is there a reason you've needed to buy so many? I'm hoping to just get the one but i'm curious why you needed to get 6-7 of them. Thanks again for your help. The "6 or 7" purchases of Alto speakers have occurred over time--probably the last 3 or 4 years. I started with a TS210, then bought another (I was so impressed with the one that I thought two would be double-pleasure!). Sold those and bought a single 212, thinking it would provide more bass (I play LH bass too in my band). In actuality it was a trade off, of more "mud" in the 12" for just a wee bit more bass than the 10s. So I sold the 12 and bought the 10 again (I had sold the two 10's to make way for the 12) and that lasted a couple of years until these new 3 series came out, I think about a year ago, at which time I bought a 312 for my keys and two 310's as the PA speakers. The new 312's seem more punchy and clear than the old 212 series, and I do like the increased bass, which even makes the organ sounds I perform with even thicker and punchier. The 310's are ideal for PA as well. By the way, in between those purchases is when I strayed, and bought the Yamaha DXR and then the QSC K10.2, only to resell both and come back to Alto.

I just got a gig teaching at an after-school program for kids near me and was asked to recommend gear to set up a music performance space. This organization is funded entirely by donations so naturally I'm looking at the less expensive end of things. For the piano students it looks like the Casio PX-160 will work well. I'd like to have a nice set of PPAs for that, also thinking they could do double duty as a PA for band performances. Your post about the Altos got me interested in them but I have to tell you that 20% of the Amazon reviews are one star and fairly brutal. These speakers will get a lot of use and I really wish they had a better rep for reliability, as most folk like their sound â when they're working! This is what I was reading: https://www.amazon.com/Alto-Professional-TS210-Loudspeaker-Integrated/product-reviews/B018W4719I/ref=cm_cr_getr_d_paging_btm_prev_1?filterByStar=one_star&pageNumber=1 Reviews by others are like anything else in this business: subjective (at best). Besides, your link provides feedback for the previous model which is no longer in production. Try searching reviews for the TS310. That same site in your link provides refreshed reviews for the new model, with almost 90% providing a 4 out of 5 or 5/5 as a score. I can only express my personal experiences coupled with the unique perspective of having owned and played through literally dozens of various self contained amps and speakers over the past 30+ years (I originally began performing professionally using a Hammond Organ and one--then two--Leslie speakers, and also a Fender Bassman "top and bottom" to amplify a Wurlitzer electric piano, later a Farfisa compact organ). I forgot in my original post citing experiences with various speakers that I had owned and used the self contained boxes from EV, JBL, TOA, Fender as well as those previously mentioned (and I am sure I am leaving some out) over the years. The ONLY issue I've had with Alto is that their parts are proprietary and if something does go wrong (I've only had one issue--a blown tweeter in one of my current TS310 speakers--honestly due to me, not the manufacturer), and Alto's customer service dept literally mailed me a replacement (easy detach and screw in the new) with no questions asked. However if there's a bigger issue like the amp or even the driver, you're forced to ship the entire speaker to Alto for repair (owners often opt to pay for a local service repair person rather than pay the shipping to send the speaker back to the manufacturer). I think I am on my 6th or 7th Altos, and other than the blown tweeter I've NEVER had an issue. They've performed impeccably and IMO I would stand them up against the best from QSC and Yamaha.

I've been through just about every "keyboard amp" out there--Peavey, Yorkville, Crate, you name it. Most were muddy sounding to me and heavy as all-get-out. 10 years or so ago I tried using a bass combo amp--all-in-one speaker cabinet and amp, usually containing two 10" neodymium speakers (for lighter weight) and a high frequency horn or tweeter. The ones from GK (Gallien Krueger) worked surprisingly well for my style of playing which includes classic rock tones like B3, "real" piano, horn, strings, synth, etc. I liked the thickness and punch of the tones that came out of the bass combo type amps, but I kept blowing tweeters. About 5 years ago I switched over to self contained powered speakers and haven't looked back. My first was a Yamaha DXR 10 which I used for maybe 2 or 3 months, but found it "muddy" sounding, even when I used a 3 band EQ mixer between it and my boards. Also it was relatively heavy. A friend of mine talked me into trying the Alto Professional line of powered speakers. Although skeptical based on the retail price alone (around $200 vs. over $600 for the Yamaha), I was pleasantly surprised (actually shocked) how well my keyboard sounds projected out of a single TS210 speaker! I sold the Yamaha for $500 and bought another TS210, setting them up on either side of my on stage for smaller gigs. My B3 with Leslie sounds were amazing, with the rotary effect being thrown out into the audience in a stereo sort of way, filling the room like the real thing used to do. They were extremely easy to gig with too, weighing around 20lbs and having a small enough form factor to easily transport them with all my other equipment in the trunk of an average SUV or car. BTW: I tried the 15" version of the Alto but found them similarly "muddy" to the Yamahas. I even took the plunge earlier this year--thinking I was missing out based on all the comments--and paid lots of money for a QSC K10.2. I was totally disappointed in the sound of that model based on what it cost and what I was getting out of the Altos. I moved up a bit early this Summer and bought two of Alto's newest models, their 310 which is advertised at 2000 watts (vs the 1200 in the previous models). Oddly they didn't increase the prices though, but I don't notice much difference if any between them and the lower-powered predecessor. You can usually find the Altos refurbished on the popular online auction site for close to $200 shipped. I'd recommend using the 10s for a well-rounded output of depth and clarity or the 12" version, which I have recently been gigging with..

Targeting all-in-one users (among other types of users) doesn't mean they have all-in-one actions. By that rationale, every board that has tons of programs including pianos, organs, and synths, must necessarily include an action that is intended to be well suited to all those things. That clearly isn't the case. There are tons of examples of boards with that variety of sounds whose actions are poor for piano or poor for organ. The sounds are still useful if your needs for those sounds that are poorly matched to the action is more minimal, or if you intend to drive them from another board via MIDI. But the fact that Yamaha puts the exact same electronics and sounds into a hammer action MODX8 as they do a non-hammer MODX6 or MODX7, or that Roland does the same with their Juno/FA 88/76/61 variants, or that Nord Electros can be triggered by a TP8O or a TP100, or that the Kronos with CX3 engine comes in boards with RH3 actions, certainly doesn't mean that all those actions are well designed for all these boards' sounds. More often, they clearly are not. But it doesn't make sense for them to delete the organ programs from the hammer action boards or delete the piano programs from the non. An "all in one action" is an impossible objective in keyboards, that is unless a board's techno abilities allow user modification of its key bed in terms of touch, response, even weight and size (obviously "size" alterations would be impossible). to the extent of converting a piano-type key into an organ or synth key and back. As I've indicated in previous posts--for me, the TP8 key bed does a reasonable job of compromise between a piano and organ key, not really yielding terribly to the nuances of either.

I am happy for you, that you are enjoying the PC4. I wanted so badly to do the same and really anguished over the decision to even order one after reviewing everyone's comments here and on other sites that discussed it. It really was a crap-shoot for me to make the decision to buy, figuring the worst case scenario would be that the board would have all the great features of a PC3 in a sub-30lb weight class and 88 keys that I really didn't like for much more than piano playing. Hope you continue to enjoy your board!

("But none of these are really designed with any pretense of being "do it all" actions.") I disagree, and believe Kurzweil's target consumer for the PC3 and now 4 series is the all-in-one user. That is evidenced by the number of factory installed programs coupled with the programming ability that allows a user virtually endless revisions to existing sounds, sample uploads, etc. I believe they went toward a piano type key and action (more than organ or synth) in order to include the piano-oriented users as well as the rest of us looking for that single board to gig with. And historically they will take a model like the PC series, Artis and Forte after the initial release of the new product, and expand the offerings for each, either in an SE trim, and/or with different numbers of keys (61 and 76), hoping to attract users who--like me--take issue with the form factor or key bed, but want most of the other features that the board offers, allowing them to install different key beds and (hopefully) widen the consumer interest base. Personally, a primary motivation to even consider switching out my current Artis 7 for the PC4 was having 88 keys at a weight similar to the Artis 7, and the bonus of having power and capabilities equal--or exceeding--the PC3. If that PC4 had the TP8 key bed, I would probably be anxiously awaiting the replacement unit being sent in exchange for the defective one I received, and putting up with the nuance of clutter near the sliders and incompatibility with the PC3 saved programs I had tried to install.

Of course it's going to be subjective, and people will differ as to whether it's "good enough". But I think the PC4 action is better than its closest functional competition (MODX8, FA08, Krome 88). And it has aftertouch besides! Actually, I even prefer it to the Kronos 88 action (though the RH3 action does work for me on the SV1). If anyone finds the PC4 action to be "good" or "better than"........(fill in the blank), they are likely more inclined to be pianists than organists or synth players. Personally, I would rather have a dedicated "real piano" board AND a separate board to manage the non-piano parts than to expect a single board like this PC4 to effectively do all three styles of playing. In my opinion that Medeli bed can be likened to all season tires, which are affectionately referred to as "no season" in many contexts.