OT: Are we extinct already?

[Lindaru]

I try to run the song through purely on memory of it first.

 

Then I put the song on (head-phones) over my ear buds connected to my keys and see how close I am. I never do You Tube videos, just the audio of the song itself.

 

Most times I am at least mostly on it but I will have to tweak some things.

 

I am more audio than video oriented. I think trying to play along while watching a You Tube would be horribly distracting to me.

 

 

[Song80s]

I try to run the song through purely on memory of it first.

 

 

Most times I am at least mostly on it but I will have to tweak some things.

 

I am more audio than video oriented. I think trying to play along while watching a You Tube would be horribly distracting to me.

 

 

I break it down into song parts. Intro verse, etc

[Strays Dave]

As for using YouTube for transcribing, I find it very useful. I have a laptop (with decent quality speakers attached) next to my piano (a Yamaha digital F01 model) and use the mouse to move the cursor back, sometimes over and over again while trying to crack a specific puzzling section. I transcribed "Alfie" by Cila Black (the version arranged and conducted by Burt Bacharach) this way. Also a couple of Keith Jarrett tunes from the 70's - "Le Mistral" and "Mysteries". I find it very useful.

 

I don't think we pianists are extinct, only endangered. Things move in cycles, but also there are many other activities that have come along to compete with peoples time. Hopefully, there'll be a renewed interest at some point in the future. Maybe listening to a skilled musician making well played music will be novel at some point. And valued.

 

 

[fjzingo]

With the enormous music and festival scene there is, at least in Europe thers no chance we or any other playing musician is going to be exctinct.

 

Also, here in sweden all kids can choose to play an instrument at school sibsidised by the school costing approximately nothing. Just returned from a brass band/ classic orchestra camp helping out preparing food for around 70 youngsters age 9-18 playing different instruments. This particular camp has been going on since the 80s with similar amount of participants. Also my daughter went to side by side camp with 1300 kids playing classical music, with hundreds of kids performing at the same time.

 

Also involved in the largest suzukischool in sweden with two kids playing piano and one playing violin, there are so many talents!

 

I guess only a small part of these kids will continue to play as grown ups, but it is really reassuring played music will not be extinct, and some of it will be performed on pianos, synthesizers, hammond organs, .....

 

 

[vanderSchoot]

Around 1900 in Berlin, Leipzig, London and Paris there were 200 brands each building their piano's. The amount of stores goes beyond what we think is possible today, even more when one takes into consideration that the lower and lower middle class was much larger in that timeframe with not much to spend.

 

Of course hardware music is going to be distinct eventually.

I have visited every guitar/ supplies store in the Netherlands (125+) last year and it goes down hill rapidly.

 

A few extremely large internet companies are in big business (Thomann, Bax shop), but their figures are suffering the last two years too.

Not to mention the loss of dozens of high end piano stores in our big cities.

 

Yes it was much worse than i expected.

China will probably do well internally, because of playing catching up with our western legacies they have adopted.

 

But the music scene that once was will be transformed into something that has little to do with what we were used to.

Many cities (The Hague and Rotterdam) who had terrific jazz scenes are barely active nowadays. Not even mentioning what top musicians earn in the secondairy circuit....it's laughable.......

[ElmerJFudd]

There is something to that... there is less demand for music that is perhaps... not sure how to put it... more cerebral? requiring time, repetition, training to understand and produce fluidly and skillfully in real time. Let's face it, classical and traditional jazz is old music - yes the artists push the envelope and continue to write, but the forms are old. Is it fair to say that? Music of and for mass appeal has always been more visceral, more in the moment and to an extent more easily produced, particularly as music technology improves and allows more and more people to create... even create new forms eschewing previously held rules or beliefs about what music is, what sounds "right" or good. Today with sampling, looping, sequencers, arps, arrangers, Ableton Live, etc. there is very little regard for key or functional harmony. A lot of this stuff is in and around one root and possibly moves to another someplace else in the tune. Tempo is largely set to one groove throughout, cool sounds are introduced as hooks - often without much of a melody to them. Technology allows for music to be passing by number, copy and paste, copy and place, invert, reverse, time stretch, etc. It's very creative in a certain sense. But it's not the blues, that's for sure - even if by freak circumstance it repeats over 12 bars!

[Song80s]

As for using YouTube for transcribing, I find it very useful. I have a laptop (with decent quality speakers attached) next to my piano (a Yamaha digital F01 model) and use the mouse to move the cursor back, sometimes over and over again while trying to crack a specific puzzling section. I transcribed "Alfie" by Cila Black (the version arranged and conducted by Burt Bacharach) this way. Also a couple of Keith Jarrett tunes from the 70's - "Le Mistral" and "Mysteries". I find it very useful.

 

 

Excellent. Same here. Its how I figured out/recorded Summer Place, Percy Faith version, on my Kronos

[ElmerJFudd]

As for using YouTube for transcribing, I find it very useful. I have a laptop (with decent quality speakers attached) next to my piano (a Yamaha digital F01 model) and use the mouse to move the cursor back, sometimes over and over again while trying to crack a specific puzzling section. I transcribed "Alfie" by Cila Black (the version arranged and conducted by Burt Bacharach) this way. Also a couple of Keith Jarrett tunes from the 70's - "Le Mistral" and "Mysteries". I find it very useful.

 

 

Excellent. Same here. Its how I figured out/recorded Summer Place, Percy Faith version, on my Kronos

 

As playback for the tune, or to study hand position and fingering from view of the player? Or both?

[Strays Dave]

I played at an Assisted Living Facility Friday night. There's all sorts of stories these days about music stimulating minds with dementia. I even listened to a Diane Rehm (NPR) show about music therapists working with stroke and coma victims. So where the traditional gigs have largely vaporized, there's currently (what's the future for this) a little ALF gig scene. I had to haul equipment but I'm told there are places where you walk in, play their digital piano for 1 hour. And leave. I'm hoping to get some of those. Playing for 80 somethings I had to dig deep into my memory banks for old 30s, 40s tunes.

 

But my take on the bigger picture is that we're in a technological transition and none of us can predict where it will lead. The advantages that music has for therapy might be farmed out to a suitable robot 15 years from now. With all the automation that's said to be coming, human employment is one big question mark. But people could turn back to the study of music like they'd study literature if they wanted to write. I think musicians are due for an upgrade. They should (in my future scenario) be masters of their craft, in addition to being passionate about their art. This would be some sort of creative revolution AFTER the things like EDM ran their course. Maybe 20 years from now some curious young hipster listens to a Duke Ellington tune from 1943 lets say. He's knocked out by the harmonic movement. He learn's some of it and merges it in with whatever his style/genre is and comes up with a sound with a harmonic palette that catches people's ears. A new trend is started. Just a fantasy.

 

If I remember correctly, one lesson that music history teaches is that there are periods of revolution and periods of evolution. Or something like that. But cycles come and go. Meanwhile I'll just enjoy my musical cocoon.

[Strays Dave]

Speaking for Dave (me) I use it for playing the song. Generally I focus on the bass line to put together root movement. Also I listen to the melody (of course). I notate the complicated songs. I will often write the bass - the lowest note, and the melody - the highest note. Then fill in the harmony notes later. But I give the cursor a workout.

 

Oh, but I'm not using anyone's hand. Just using YT as a digital juke box.

[Song80s]

As for using YouTube for transcribing, I find it very useful. I have a laptop (with decent quality speakers attached) next to my piano (a Yamaha digital F01 model) and use the mouse to move the cursor back, sometimes over and over again while trying to crack a specific puzzling section. I transcribed "Alfie" by Cila Black (the version arranged and conducted by Burt Bacharach) this way. Also a couple of Keith Jarrett tunes from the 70's - "Le Mistral" and "Mysteries". I find it very useful.

 

 

Excellent. Same here. Its how I figured out/recorded Summer Place, Percy Faith version, on my Kronos

 

As playback for the tune, or to study hand position and fingering from view of the player? Or both?

 

 

I figured out the overall tune, orchestra parts by ear and laid down the tracks on the Kronos SEQ. Fingering the piano chords and ARPS of some instruments was not a huge challenge.

[ProfD]

IMO, there are competing forces but we are not extinct nor will it happen.

 

Musicians aren't in the same demand as prior to the explosion of technology. Especially weekend warrior types.

 

We just have to work harder to get gigs and and hold listeners' attention. As I've written before, that means keeping our minds and ears open musically.

 

Once musicians have decided the scene is going or has gone to hell in a handbasket, they're already half way out of the game.

 

Update the set-list. Put an interesting spin on new music. Mix it up. Have fun. It's infectious. If you're having a blast, others will dig it too.

[Hoochie]

Like some others here I'm too busy but I see the crowd aging too.

Our sweet spot is an older crowd that still feels young

and now that the kids are in college let's have some fun.

 

The younger generation has filled their needs with social stuff.

It's really taken us back. Or holding us back as a society.

 

Face book, you tube, etc. it's all very exciting. "Did you see that? Woah dude!"

All of it seams to gravitate around what people think of you and you judging others.

One little post about you in the negative destroys everything.

Yet you pounce on others and make a game of it.

 

Reminds me of the Victorian age of "preserving reputations"

and the glee of casting out those who deviate beyond what is "proper".

This is serious stuff.

Hopefully our kids can get beyond this crap and get on with living.

 

So with all that you can see where the young crowds of

potential live music listeners went.

A few inches in front of their face with thumbs flying across the screen.

 

John

 

 

[PianoMan51]

I will often write the bass - the lowest note, and the melody - the highest note. Then fill in the harmony notes later.

Hey Dave. Welcome to the forum. I just played the Diane Rehm discussion for my wife. She plays celtic harp at our local hospital and hospice for transitioning folks. (That's dying for the uninitiated.) So yes, music has far more worthwhile purposes than getting more booze sales at the local.

 

Your comments about bass lines and melody lines remind me of learning about figured bass in college. We jazzbos are rehashing some old memes, but with african rhythms.

[aronnelson]

> Update the set-list. Put an interesting spin on new music.

 

I think the biggest problem is there are hardly any places to play live music that will pay anything anymore. Sure, there are tons of 1 guitar/singer or duo gigs. But there are hardly places available for a band and if you think about it, the DJ's are really a single or duo too.

 

I think I may have titled this incorrectly, what I mean is making a living playing with a band. Yeah sure I can sit in my house and make all the great music I want, but I mean performing the music where people are willing to PAY to hear the music and I can make money off of it. Hard to do this when there's only 1 or 2 places that will pay for a band.

 

I place solo piano along with solo guitarist singers. There are gigs for that for sure.

 

[stoken6]

But here's a great activity for our musical minds. Try doing it by ear, then go to YouTube and compare to see how your interpretation/transcription matches up. Do it often, you'll get better at it. Do it really often, you don't need a video. That's all I'm saying.

 

I do this all the time. Play the record - take a view. Listen to the live version, spot some subtleties that are more apparent on the mix. Watch concert footage (for fingering clues). Bring up cover versions. Watch tutorials on YT. Each brings an opportunity to

 

Just don't use those internet chord sites. 99% garbage.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[Outkaster]

Music is a disposable commodity and I find not respected. No one really gives a shit anymore. I know it sounds negative but that is what I experience with the general population.

[Michael Wright]

Music is a disposable commodity and I find not respected. No one really gives a shit anymore. I know it sounds negative but that is what I experience with the general population.

This is my experience also.

[Stokely]

I rarely bother to learn something note-for-note (some bands do, mine doesn't sweat it...we groove and have fun) unless it's a very important "signature" part.

 

One such (IMO) is Foreplay by Boston....in younger days I tried to learn that from a cassette tape--rewinding so many times I broke the tape. I ended up with something reasonably close but not correct, as I later found. A recent band I was in wanted to play it so I found a youtube of a guy breaking it down--wow was I ever off when I learned it the first time! Unfortunately my "bad" version now clashes with the new "right" one. Problem solved itself since my current band can't do Boston (vocals)

 

I also used a video to learn the solo to "Call me the Breeze"...the whole first part of that solo kicks my butt for some reason...there's something "alien" in the chord changes to my style of playing I guess. The second part, which sounds harder, is easier for me to play (though not easy, and I probably don't do it exactly as he did in studio)...

[Song80s]

Music is a disposable commodity and I find not respected. No one really gives a shit anymore. I know it sounds negative but that is what I experience with the general population.

 

Its been marginalized and cheapened. When I see songs for $1.29 on iTunes, I think thats unfortunate.

[Synthoid]

Music is a disposable commodity and I find not respected. No one really gives a shit anymore. I know it sounds negative but that is what I experience with the general population.

This is my experience also.

 

Yup, sad but true.

[The Real MC]

Music is a disposable commodity and I find not respected. No one really gives a shit anymore. I know it sounds negative but that is what I experience with the general population.

 

There are exceptions but they are fewer and farther between.

 

I don't think keyboardists are extinct - keyboards are having less and less of a role.

 

I was invited to a concert because my friend knew the group was using a B3/Leslie there. The thing was touched for a whopping one song and you couldn't even hear the thing.

 

My keyboard role was diminishing in my southern rock band due to a guitar hero. I hated playing wallpaper behind guitar solos and doubling barre chords - too damn lame for a musician of my caliber.

 

Witness many concerts where the keyboardists are relegated to backstage behind the amps and out of sight. It's an image problem - drums, guitars, and singers maximize the visual impact. You can see every limb in motion from every angle in the audience. Keyboardists just aren't as animated, the majority of the audience can't see the hands in motion, and you're fixed to one location and can't wander the stage (no keytar need apply).

 

Thinking seriously of abandoning the club band scene and jumping ship to traditional music performed on synths, something few are brave enough to attempt. The venues would be more limited but the appreciation would be better.

[Synthoid]

Thinking seriously of abandoning the club band scene and jumping ship to traditional music performed on synths, something few are brave enough to attempt. The venues would be more limited but the appreciation would be better.

 

I've been doing this off and on for 8 years. Disappearing venues and small crowds. It can be fun though--I really enjoy playing original material--but you ain't gonna get rich doing it.

[drohm]

 

Face book, you tube, etc. it's all very exciting. "Did you see that? Woah dude!"

All of it seams to gravitate around what people think of you and you judging others.

One little post about you in the negative destroys everything.

Yet you pounce on others and make a game of it.

 

Reminds me of the Victorian age of "preserving reputations"

and the glee of casting out those who deviate beyond what is "proper".

This is serious stuff.

Hopefully our kids can get beyond this crap and get on with living.

 

John

 

 

That is an interesting comparison. I had not thought about it that way. I'm going to be more careful about falling into this trap with social media. Thanks for the comment John.

[ProfD]

Music is a disposable commodity and I find not respected. No one really gives a shit anymore. I know it sounds negative but that is what I experience with the general population.

 

Its been marginalized and cheapened. When I see songs for $1.29 on iTunes, I think thats unfortunate.

I'm actually fine with that iTunes model for a single song. IMO, it is better than paying $12.90 for a ten (10) song CD with 9 fillers on it.

[Synthoid]

I'm actually fine with that iTunes model for a single song. IMO, it is better than paying $12.90 for a ten (10) song CD with 9 fillers on it.

 

Yeah, got plenty of those. Perhaps I'll paint them orange, invite some friends over and...

 

 

http://www.grandslam.uk.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/Laser-Clay-Pigeon-Shooting-Banner-1024x768.jpg

 

[Song80s]

Music is a disposable commodity and I find not respected. No one really gives a shit anymore. I know it sounds negative but that is what I experience with the general population.

 

Its been marginalized and cheapened. When I see songs for $1.29 on iTunes, I think thats unfortunate.

I'm actually fine with that iTunes model for a single song. IMO, it is better than paying $12.90 for a ten (10) song CD with 9 fillers on it.

 

Sure. We see things from our own personal universe.

 

How much does the artist get from that $1.29 from Apple ?

 

No excuse for having 9 fillers on the album. Thats another topic

[Joe Muscara]

How much does the artist get from that $1.29 from Apple ?

Apple pays $0.70 per $0.99 download but if the artist is on a label, they will see less than that depending on their deal. OTOH if they're independent and using an aggregator like Tunecore or CD Baby, they might get all of the $0.70 minus fees from the aggregator. I think Tunecore's fees are annual.

[Michael Wright]

No excuse for having 9 fillers on the album. Thats another topic

I sure miss the concept album days.

[Jazzmammal]

Musicians aren't in the same demand as prior to the explosion of technology. Especially weekend warrior types.

 

I don't think this is true. It's only true for old farts doing 40 year old music for 65 year olds (yes I know, another generalization).

 

If you want to find out what's going on you have to ask your 25 year old kids. Where are they going on a Friday night? Do they go see live music? If yes, what kind of music? You may not like what they think is music but that's the question to ask.

 

Bob