New MOXF User

[MotiDave]

My MOXF6 arrived last night, and I confess that for now I'm setting aside the MS3 project. I can create patches with splits and layers but I don't have any skill at custom designing the exact sounds I want/require in MS3. So for now MOXF will be an easy fly away rig substitute to my XF

 

First impression, I'm geeked because it's a cheap sub to my XF and sounds almost identical. Keybed feels quite decent to for a board I can flip around with one hand. I'm not as picky / ear discerning as many here, but I like it just fine. Keys don't have the side slop I felt on the Novation impulse nor the semi sharp side edges. Not nearly as noisy either. It will be easy to go back and forth between the two.

 

UI is diff, smaller screen and more clumsy than XF. That's ok, I'll do most programming on XF or Melas and transfer by USB. It fits nicely in the SKB ATA molded case I picked up, it's light and compact, ready to fly off next week so I can dial in the XF programs. I'm going to master use of zones and drive an external 76/88 controller with some MOXF tones for live performance, something I didn't yet utilize on my XF.

 

I'll have the MBP and interface ... Maybe next project.c for now I'm psyched to add a quick substitution solution to the rig I usually play locally.

[EscapeRocks]

cool!

 

I've used the MOX6 and now MOXF6 in my gig rig for years. It's a great master board. I use it to call up everything on my other gear, even Mainstage patch when using MS.

[MotiDave]

right on and thanks David, and great name btw

 

I muddled around in MS3, but only on a handful of occassions and without usable results. I call it muddle as it was basically stumbling around blind, twisting some controls to little effect, reading alot of things that didnt get me anywhere towards where I needin between, and then muddling around some more. After a couple months of doing this once a week, I just accepted I don't have time or heart for it right now (probably not this year). I need exact sounds for this Bon Jovi trib, which is the traveling band I need a fly-in rig for.

 

it dawned on me I spent tons of time learning to do just that on my XF and I have usable great-sounding patches for every BJ song we do already designed. I get $500 and up for each fly-in gig, MOXF pays for itself in 2 gigs and I don't need to learn a new language, technology, and art just to achieve this narrow goal.

 

At local gigs I'll still use my XF, so having any new voice design work transferrable easily between boards is perfect for a time constrained 2-job 2-kid part time rocker like me. If we add a song, I just design the sounds on XF. Melas copy/paste to a MOXF file and voila - same sound design both locations. I understand all the parameters in MOXF, all the limitations of their AWM2, know some workarounds, etc.

 

My only challenge is small - I designed XF Performances that max out usable space on my 76 keys. I have to remap into a 61 construct - nows the time to learn to either redesign more voices to turn on off and layer (I do this easily using AF All off or AF1 per Element), or I push some of the voices off to a second controller via master zones. Otherwise laying out Performances is trivial and fast compared to designing custom sounds (at least, for me).

 

I'm excited to get past the indecision and just do the solution thats easiest for my unique problem statement. Really (pleasantly) surprised with the key feel for a $1000 board, much better than I expected. I'd read the A/D's are different, but in headphones the sound quality is so close to identical nobody will ever hear a difference in a rock band mix. I don't know I hear the difference yet. Differences in FOH systems will far outweigh any difference in A/Ds.

 

I'm one geeked moxf'er!

[Red Ranger]

Congrats on the MOXF, MotiDave! It's a great board for the money & weight. I have a MOXF8 that I've been "rediscovering" lately, and it's just awesome. I'd been planning to sell it because I wasn't using many of its features, and I'd picked up a used Kurz PC3 that would fit better on some of the tiny stages my band plays.

 

But while the Kurz was in the shop for some new faders, I joined a second band & had to program sounds for a ton of songs really quickly. I felt that same indecision you describe, trying to wait for the Kurz (so I didn't have to program everything twice), considering Mainstage instead (but like you, I don't know it well enough yet to quickly create the sounds I need). Finally I pulled out the MOXF again & really started digging in with it, and it's been a workhorse. I'm keeping it. Good luck with yours!

[MotiDave]

Have any of you MOXFers or XFers ever tried Easy sounds "Live Organ" or Live Instruments libraries?

 

my #1 lament with XF has always been tonewheel ... much discussed in the forum by many...

 

Easy Sounds Live Organ

[Red Ranger]

Sorry, I haven't tried any of the third party organ sounds. I just always used a second board for organ. Maybe since you're doing fly-in gigs, one of the iPad organ solutions would work, especially with an unweighted MOXF. You've got the audio interface built-in, too.

[LX88]

I got so frustrated with my MOXF6 that I had it removed from my house.

 

The quick start owner's manual would not even tell me how to call up effects. An expansion board offered by Yamaha in December offered NO installation instructions whatsoever.

 

From what I can tell you either have to be pretty dedicated or some kind of serious genius to get the benefits from this board. The lightweight package and the multitude of sounds was initially tempting but I went the same route that I did with the original Motif that I got almost ten years ago - it didn't stick around.

 

I believe it is possible to get good sounds and functionality from this board but it is apparently beyond my technical skills.

[Moonglow]

I got so frustrated with my MOXF6 that I had it removed from my house.

Dude, that is just awesome. Who did the dirty work?

 

I've been tempted to go down the MOXF path as a second keyboard for my "B" rig, and like you had a really hard time with the UI, so I removed myself from the music store.

[Aidan]

I got so frustrated with my MOXF6 that I had it removed from my house.

 

Really? You're not just trying to stir up debate, then?

 

Look, I had a MOXF6 for a number of months and found it lacking live but if we're going to criticise a board, let's put forward some justifiable reasoning.

[dsetto]

dave, great to read about your synergistic use of the MOXF6 plus the XF7. One learning curve, and a real portable alternative. I've always dug that potential; glad to see you doing it.

[jimmymio]

Look, I had a MOXF6 for a number of months and found it lacking live

What in particular?

[LX88]

My justifiable reasoning is stated in my above post but once again, the user interface is just a nightmare. And I was very frustrated not have been given instructions on even how to install the expansion board.

 

I was hoping to get an upgrade on the acoustic piano - the expansion board promoinfo states that it was derived from the CP-1. I was also hoping for better things from the Chick Corea Rhodes set which is not terrible, but basically turns out to be about 50 variations on the same thing.

 

Another main frustration with the MOXF Rhodes samples is the " zero to bark" nature of touch sensitivity. Once again, how do I adjust it out? Many times if I play a Rhodes patch normally it is at full bark, which isn't always a pleasant sound.

 

I got the MOXF6 to act as a sound module of sorts to be triggered from 88 weighted keys. But my controller, the " "lowly" Yamaha P-35 offers a sample that rivals anything in the MOXF to my ear. And I am also liking the the Rhodes sample in the also lowly Williams Legato as much as any of the classic Yamaha Rhodes stuff contained in the MOXF.

 

The MOXF6 is not bad per se, and for the money it does offer quite bit. But the user interface is MADDENING.

[LX88]

Also.... I got a new phone recently, and it comes with no instructions. Apparently, you are just supposed to be able to figure these things out.

 

No instructions contained with the expansion board was the last straw.

[NosPup]

I've had the MOXF6 for about a year and a half, and i have been hot and cold with it. We always record our gigs and rehearsals, and the sounds seem good in the mix, but i really can't get comfortable with the feel of the keys. Does anyone else have a similar problem with the key feel? As a comparison, over the years I've used the DX7, Roland JV and XP, and Nord electro, and i was always pretty comfortable with those keybeds.

[Michael W]

...but i really can't get comfortable with the feel of the keys. Does anyone else have a similar problem with the key feel?

 

I think the keybed on the MOXF6 is the same as the MOX6, which I've had almost since they first came out. I love the sounds, but like you, I was never thrilled with the keybed. But that appears to be a sacrifice/compromise in an instrument that weighs so little and is so easy to move around.

 

When upgrading to the MOXF, however, I opted for the MOXF8. Although I have never been a fan of using a weighted keyboard for synth/organ (non-piano/EP) sounds, the 8 is very playable, and I like it.

[MotiDave]

My justifiable reasoning is stated in my above post but once again, the user interface is just a nightmare. And I was very frustrated not have been given instructions on even how to install the expansion board.

 

I was hoping to get an upgrade on the acoustic piano - the expansion board promoinfo states that it was derived from the CP-1. I was also hoping for better things from the Chick Corea Rhodes set which is not terrible, but basically turns out to be about 50 variations on the same thing.

 

Another main frustration with the MOXF Rhodes samples is the " zero to bark" nature of touch sensitivity. Once again, how do I adjust it out? Many times if I play a Rhodes patch normally it is at full bark, which isn't always a pleasant sound.

 

I got the MOXF6 to act as a sound module of sorts to be triggered from 88 weighted keys. But my controller, the " "lowly" Yamaha P-35 offers a sample that rivals anything in the MOXF to my ear. And I am also liking the the Rhodes sample in the also lowly Williams Legato as much as any of the classic Yamaha Rhodes stuff contained in the MOXF.

 

The MOXF6 is not bad per se, and for the money it does offer quite bit. But the user interface is MADDENING.

 

Justifiable is always personal and valid - if a board isn't right for you, its not right for you. I was going to create an entire library in Mainstage and after doodling around I decided thats not right for me - not right now anyway.

 

The Flash board (FL512/FL1024) installation instructions are on page 71 of the Owners manual. Process is straightforward:

 

1. turn off power, turn board over and take off cover plate

2. plug PCBA into the slot and hand tighten the screws

3. put the cover plate back on and turn it on ...

 

If its like XF (i'll find out soon), it automatically notices a new flash board is physically installed. If you already have content, it needs to just load the library pointer information to your board. If its a brand new board, you format it and go from there. its pretty straight forward but if this is a stumbling block, managing actual waveform content on the flash board and your User libraries will probably be a bigger chore. and if you don't manage that to some degree, you'll eventually choke yourself. Melas has a tool that allows you to do all that on a big screen of your computer, much easier and faster. But thats another $100 to spend (so worth it imo, I can't live without his tools on these boards!)

 

I understand the MOXF voice architecture well as its the same as my Motif XF. The MOXF interface is not as easy as XF, its a much smaller screen which means more dive layers to get to the same parameters. But the parameters are there, so I've already suffered the worst of the learning curve (a big reason for me getting the MOXF). On my XF it took me a good while to become proficient in making voice edits as it was my first digital board (I "retired" from music for 25 yrs lol), and it was my first Yamaha product. Now I can do things fairly quickly though I still have roadblocks to create certain sounds etc. Wurlys and Rhodes - easy now. Getting live modulating sweeps and stuff is where I've not fully cracked their codes.

 

There is a definite learning curve, but I think thats typical of any board that has more than simple configuration options.

 

That velocity sensitivity problem of yours can also be readily adjusted. Easiest way is put the voice in a Performance and you can flatten the curve of the entire voice as a block, as well as set how much "bark" you have (from low to hi). then you don't have to edit the internals of the Voice. But you can also flatten the response in each element of the Voice if its a permanent change (new voice) you want to create. thats more work though.

 

Now I'm plannig to program in Mixing (Song) mode so I can use an external controller to trigger some sounds, not just Performance mode which is alot easier. I have some new learning I have to overcome.

[Sam Mullins]

I've had the MOXF6 for about a year and a half, and i have been hot and cold with it. We always record our gigs and rehearsals, and the sounds seem good in the mix, but i really can't get comfortable with the feel of the keys. Does anyone else have a similar problem with the key feel?

 

I used a MOX6 and then MOXF6 as a second tier board for years. Loved the sounds, flexibility, and had enough experience with Motif line to get along OK with their admittedly obtuse user interface. Still consider those boards among the best values. But I finally had enough with the keyboard feel (particularly the black key pivot point) and upgraded to Kronos 61. Would have probably gone with Montage 6 if they hadn't crippled the MIDI multi-channel implementation (see my posts in Montage thread if you are interested...no need to get started on that here.)

[MotiDave]

Kronos is a different league than the humble MOXF. Nice board indeed, Sam!

 

I'm still eying the montage for late '16 XF7 replacement, and I'm reading everyone's posts

[Sam Mullins]

Kronos is a different league than the humble MOXF. Nice board indeed, Sam!

 

Yeah..but I have to say that as a pure ROMpler the MOXF holds up pretty well against the Kronos. There are some sound categories (particularly guitars) where I prefer the MOXF. But the Kronos obviously has other things going for it,

[midinut]

I've had my MOXF6 for about a year now. Also have a Kronos 88 under it. I use the MO and an 88-note controller underneath it running Mainstage. I had a Motif ES6 for many years. Sold it for a couple if reasons. I agree that the UI is hard to wrap your head around (for most of us - engineers/programmers seem to have an easier time with it. Also, I tried to embrace the whole mLAN technology at the time, bought an 01x mixer, an interface, etc. It just added to my frustration. I did find lots of help and friendly guidance on the motivator forum. There truly are some geniuses running around there. Anyway, I truly did miss my Motif sound set and decided to pick up the MOXF6 used with the Premium Collection (which was included the Flash card, the Chick' Rhodes, the CFX piano samples, etc.). I agree that ever time I've had to install something, I've had to look up how to do it. Not very intuitive, and putting together Performances is harder (or I'm just getting older) than I remember it being on my Motif ES6. I agree that the key bed is pretty loose compared to the ES or newer series Motifs, but it's kind of expected at that price point. I still like mine and have no intention of removing it. It makes a great one board, lightweight solution for practices, auditions, jams, and so on. Paired with MS it's a pretty remarkable combination. The MO acts as a backup in case something squirrely happens with the MBP. But my point is, yeah the UI is not very friendly, but the help you can get at motifator.com is. YMMV.

[MotiDave]

I've had my MOXF6 for about a year now. Also have a Kronos 88 under it. I use the MO and an 88-note controller underneath it running Mainstage. I had a Motif ES6 for many years. Sold it for a couple if reasons. I agree that the UI is hard to wrap your head around (for most of us - engineers/programmers seem to have an easier time with it. Also, I tried to embrace the whole mLAN technology at the time, bought an 01x mixer, an interface, etc. It just added to my frustration. I did find lots of help and friendly guidance on the motivator forum. There truly are some geniuses running around there. Anyway, I truly did miss my Motif sound set and decided to pick up the MOXF6 used with the Premium Collection (which was included the Flash card, the Chick' Rhodes, the CFX piano samples, etc.). I agree that ever time I've had to install something, I've had to look up how to do it. Not very intuitive, and putting together Performances is harder (or I'm just getting older) than I remember it being on my Motif ES6. I agree that the key bed is pretty loose compared to the ES or newer series Motifs, but it's kind of expected at that price point. I still like mine and have no intention of removing it. It makes a great one board, lightweight solution for practices, auditions, jams, and so on. Paired with MS it's a pretty remarkable combination. The MO acts as a backup in case something squirrely happens with the MBP. But my point is, yeah the UI is not very friendly, but the help you can get at motifator.com is. YMMV.

 

i've worked in XF for 4 yrs so moXF is close to intuitive. diff UI means a bit more screen diving, but XF required diving too. At least the core structural design is identical to XF (Voices, Performances, etc). - there is no difference there so its just finding what i want.

 

I find the keybed surprisingly acceptably decent for a $1k board. Its better than I thought it would be. I'm not quite the purist many here are, but I've felt keybeds I just could't stand. I don't mind this at all. this is for a fly-ing light board, so we deal with what we got - venue backlines can result in anything, i've seen.

 

I really wanted to go MBP but I couldn't get my head around that simply, and didn't devote time to learn it. I have two engineering degrees, i managed to learn differential equations and such, so a basic usable MS3 product should be achievable. but I found I didn't WANT to study the new system, life is short and I already have 2 jobs and 2 kids. this is weekend warrior hobby for me, i'm not going into the keyboard business here. I'm not that good of a keyboard player lol

[NosPup]

 

 

 

I find the keybed surprisingly acceptably decent for a $1k board. Its better than I thought it would be. I'm not quite the purist many here are, but I've felt keybeds I just could't stand. I don't mind this at all. this is for a fly-ing light board, so we deal with what we got - venue backlines can result in anything, i've seen.

 

 

Fair point. It seems like its either the $1k board or a $2,500/$3000 board with really nice action. It's hard as a weekend warrior to justify the $2500 price tag, so i'll probably just keep the MOXF6

[MotiDave]

I had a business trip last week from Cali to NC, so I took my moXF to tune the data I transferred from my XF7. Really like this board! (of course, having worked only on an XF7 for 4 years, it makes sense this is easy transition). But i like the keybed feel, alot more than I expected.

 

I bought this lightweight SKB ATA case and I really like it. For those wanting more than a bag, this is a solid consideration. Only one trip so no comment or pledge on durability yet, and I did add a bit more foam to the lid to hold the keys side of board snugly down. but after lugging my XF7 in a plywood-construction ATA case through many airports and paying $75/way fee for weight/size, this is a beautifully light joy. a sturdy transport kit. wheels roll great, easy to pick it up with one hand and airline checked it free as its under max weight and length, easy to roll on escalator with my other hand rolling a carryon, just pretty darn easy all the way around (note - I'm not recommending GC here, I actually bought it elsewhere).

 

SKB 4214W

 

I did find I made some sort of error in my Melas file prep. I had removed unused waveforms, removed duplicate waveforms, removed duplicate voices, etc. I found when I drilled deep some user voices were pointing to a waveform location I had deleted. the equivalent waveforms are in there, don't know what I did wrong quite yet. won't be hard to correct, I corrected the one-waveform voices but I need to open up a pre-clean ALL file and look at a few of the AP voices to confirm which WF is assigned to which element(s).

 

I am now 96% of the way to having my moXF6 as a ready steady fly-in duplicate of my home use xf7. very happy indeed. now to ponder putting them both into live gigs at local shows ... hmmm ...