KeyB Legend and Live Messe 2016

[vanderSchoot]

A new topic about the KeyB legend (and Live), because it is 100% fact that both are for real and hitting the market in the near future.

Several requests from fellow forum members were enough to try to see for myself what KeyB is all about in 2016.

I have visited the stand three times (first time to play myself and the other visits were made to ask Elvio personally for some background info of the current products).

An extremely hard working and down to earth person who was willing to answer all my questions. And i can be very direct at times (I guess we Dutch people are formed that way in our society...) but he never missed an oppertunity to genuinely answer. He was Italian and his English was okayish i guess....Good enough for me to make sense.

I am sorry but making photos isn't my best skill.....I hope they will be sufficiant though.....

 

http://i.imgur.com/ZJdJyTc.jpg

That's me with Elvio on the bench of the Legend.

 

The new sound engine

The new DSP is something entirely different compared to the original KeyB. No more limited computing power and capable of calculating so much more.

Therefor the sound is a step up compared to the original KeyB we all seem to acknowledge as a very accurate Hammond clone model.

Both the Legend and the live are using the same sound engine, the differences are the cabinet, layout, knobs, preset keys (Legend only) and removable half-moon leslie switch (legend only).

Both have FOUR sets of drawbars and an 11-pin leslie connector.

Elvio changed the internal wiring completely and now uses seperate dedicated chips (drawbars, controles, sound engine etc.) which lowered the amount of cables inside considerably to make sure any failure is taken care of in a much less complicated way compared to older KeyB models.

http://i.imgur.com/YHzkdJp.jpg

 

http://i.imgur.com/WgfYxcr.jpg

The legend

 

 

 

 

http://i.imgur.com/D0caQuW.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/Dz3ioYV.jpg

The Live

 

 

http://i.imgur.com/hswwnWy.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/kOF0ZJf.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/jT6Qkut.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/PP4MiBI.jpg

All pictures of the Legend

 

As shown in the pictures the Legend has more direct hands-on controles.

The preset keys of the Legend have a little led in the middle, so very much visable in dark environments.

The half-moon switch of the Legend has a clever connector, so clicking /connecting to the cabinet without hassle is easy prior to transporting the Legend.

 

percussion

 

 

Elvio gave me a big smile when talked about ''his'' percussion......like an Italian cook who has this secret recipe that no matter what you do in the kitchen you won't be able to get it to taste like the chef him/her selve.

He said'' many asked me about the percussion, but it is my secret and i told no-one till date'' He was clearly proud about his achievements in a good way.

Indeed it sounded organic and with just the right amount of ''pong''.

Again the percussion benefits greatly from the increased DSP power.

We have come a long way compared to....let's say the percussion of the Nord Electro original.

 

keyclick

Amount adjustable and sounding very natural to me. Different compared to HX3, but much better than what I am used to hear from my Numa 1 organ at home.

 

reverb

Two types of reverb, hall and spring.

Pre or post leslie

In conjunction with the leslie very transparent.Of course one can over do it (post leslie) but who wants to ?

 

organ models

BC without foldback of the thirties

B3 of the fifties

A100 of the seventies

 

A clever idea to add three completely different models,....i wonder how much is left to desire tonewise.....Of course you can add twenty models or very deep customising, but personally i like this concept because it is simple and straight forward. Those in need of increased tweaking will have to settle for what it is i guess....

 

chorus/vibrato

Elvio acknowledged that it was very similar to the KeyB/Numa1 chorus....but like many posters agree (LX88) that KeyB got it right the first time around. So ''never change a winning team'' i guess....

 

Leslie effect

 

2 types....closed miked and more ambient.

Together with the chorus spot on.... and Elvio demonstrated several settings in which it became obvious how well the leslie sim and the chorus go together.

One big thumps up for me is the fact that the Legend was demonstrated through active Genelec speakers, since that is how 90% of the potential buyers on the road will use the Legend.

No real leslie to hide the fallacies of any weak component that is part of the overall sound.(xk3c...wich sounded terrific through a leslie, but much less without it)

What i like about the sim most is that it is the most 3D effect to my ears. I use a small leslie 860+HX3 and the vent+HX3 doesn't sound as good through either my MS KP500SN or the Yamaha DRX12 active speakers. It is as if the sound becomes 2D.

I must admit that i thought the KeyB was connected with a leslie at first, but then I noticed the Genelec speakers.Something I never miss when using or hearing the vast majority of simulations out there.

 

cabinet overdrive

2 models.....122/147 and Marshall/John Lord

Again much better drive than in the original KeyB/Numa (a weak spot on those organs) I can safely say that all current top clones have more or less nailed the overdrive at last.

 

novelties

Anyone familiar with the sostenuto pedal of a grand piano, knows that it is capable to hold certain chords while continuing playing with both hands while the first chord still sounds.

The Legend is capable of that (hold pedal) on the upper keybed while playing with both hands on the lower keybed. In the coming weeks a KeyB company video will demonstrate how this new terretory can be explored soundwise.

 

top octave

For me personally this was a huge, huge step up. That is how a top octave can do business live. Not shrill but extremely powerfull like what i am used to hear in my HX3.

Elvio said it only needed some slight tweekings (the top 4 drawbars) to get an even more overall pleasing character in conjunction with the other drawbars.

 

keybed

The usual suspect was used....a Fatar TP80 waterfall.

During my four days at the Messe i played them all and i am not capable of naming a top favorite. They all played very nice (Mojo, Nord Electro 5D and the KeyB)....i personally think they only differ marginally.

What i did notice with the KeyB (Elvio's words) that the moment you strike the keys of the Legend you get that sound explosion......WHAM.

There is your Hammond tone....so start playing.

I high triggering point (was able to do machinegun thrills easily) and indeed you feel you have so much power under your fingers soundwise. (also somewhat lacking in the Numa1)

 

backside

Look at the photo and it is clear what is available....

Note. Also a second USB connection on the far right...for a tablet on stage.

 

updates

After i told him how much hassle the Numa gave me and that people were afraid of non excisting future updates, Elvio ashured me that future updates would be easy as can be.

Only PC !!!! The updates are in a folder on your computer which immidiatly recognices the Legend. A few clicks and there you go...

 

service

Every failure will be repaired without extra costs.

Pat Bianchi (New York) will take care of the US services.

Elvio will have much more time after the Legend/Live hit the stores, so replying to Emails and answering questions will be much easier than before.

 

production and sales

All will be built and distributed by/through Viscount which has a much larger and settled consumers network worldwide.

 

price

Legend 2500,- 25 pedalboard 1400,-

Live 1800,- 18 pedalboard 1000,-

 

Furthermore the top is flat so a Gemini module could be fittet....hahaha the irony.

Both the Legend and the Live have the same dept, but the Legend is wider because of the preset keys.

Note: If i recall correctly the Live was able of holding two presets by pushing a button.

 

final comments

I sincerely hope KeyB will be back in serious business anytime soon, if only for the person dedicated to the Hammond model and his phylosophie for so many years.

It was a booth stop worthwhile and i hope i have added to all the things you allready knew about the Legend.

My own handwriting is so terrible that i will change this post when i remember what i forgot to tell.

 

Best regards to all of you....your interrests over here are contagious. Many thanks for all the great input during the last decade and more.

 

André van der Schoot

[Outkaster]

Thanks I like the realtime controls on that little panel. Man the competition is getting fierce.

[Mitch Towne]

Fantastic review!!! Thanks for taking the time to do this!!

[Chris Towns]

Vanderschoot,

What can I say, brilliant review (considering it's not even in your native tongue).

 

From what I have read, you are more than happy with the new sound. I would be interested to know how it compares with your original Numa organ.

 

I am also interested how the switches work on the Live Mk2 as they just look like flat circles of black foam.

 

I notice that you have a B3 and a A100 sound. Can you get a C3 sound on it?

 

I am hoping to get a Live Mk2 this year and really like the look of it in black.

 

Many thanks for all the work you put into this review, I'm sure many Forum members will appreciate the effort you made.

 

Chris

 

p.s. Look forward to meeting up when you come to London next.

[vanderSchoot]

Thanks Outkaster, Mitch and Chelsea for your kind words !

[Mitch Towne]

Pretty sure the Live Mark 2 in the pics is a prototype, hence the nonexistent switches. They will be actual switches later, I'd bet.

[vanderSchoot]

Vanderschoot,

What can I say, brilliant review (considering it's not even in your native tongue).

 

From what I have read, you are more than happy with the new sound. I would be interested to know how it compares with your original Numa organ.

Well it sounds simply better and i did play the KeyB live at the Messe 2014 which didn't do it for me like the new Legend.

Problem is when something sounds right to your ears, you forget about details........all you hear is a pleasing sound.

The Numa 1 was the first clone i genuinely liked, but rarely used it's overdive. The top octave was a sort of shimmery and therefor not a multi purpose board.

After buying HX3 i noticed that the keyclick, top octave and percussion were more to my liking compared to the Numa 1.

So my reference now is HX3.

The Legend seemed to sound like both......if that makes any sense at all. The Numa 1 sound was still somewhat recognisable but a huge overhaul was made..., so to speak.

Actually i don't think they really compare, because they took care of all the weaker spots of the Numa1. (drive, keyclick, percussion, top octave and to thin/transparent Numa sound for a rock context)

I am also interested how the switches work on the Live Mk2 as they just look like flat circles of black foam.

Sorry i didn't play the Live, but Elvio simply pressed the circles to make changes so.......

I notice that you have a B3 and a A100 sound. Can you get a C3 sound on it?

I guess not.....

I am hoping to get a Live Mk2 this year and really like the look of it in black.

 

Many thanks for all the work you put into this review, I'm sure many Forum members will appreciate the effort you made.

 

Chris

 

p.s. Look forward to meeting up when you come to London next.

I will remember your kind offer and you never know how well my other businesses (wooden guitarstands) will do after a very successfull Messe...... May find myself in Londen in the future..

 

André

[mate stubb]

I notice that you have a B3 and a A100 sound. Can you get a C3 sound on it?

 

This question makes no sense. There is no "B-3" or "A-100" or "C-3" sound. There is only the individual sound of that particular console, determined by the individual calibration, shift of electronic component values due to aging, and how it matches to the leslie it is hooked to.

[dazzjazz]

That's a LOT of clone for the money. Thanks for the info.

[keyClicker]

Great post!

I never played a KeyB, but this looks good.

[Dnsmo]

André, fabulous report!

 

Since the two different overdrives are selected by a pushbutton and then controlled by a pot, did you get a chance to try out that setup?

 

Dennis

[Mitch Towne]

I'd guess the difference between the modeled 50s B3 and modeled 70s A100 is what you'd expect - the 70s organ being brighter and more aggressive.

[ElmerJFudd]

Great feedback on KeyB from MusikMesse! Thanks!

I think the Viscount arrangement could very well prove to be just what this developer needs to get his dream into the hands of fans internationally.

[Chris Towns]

Hi,

 

My apologies Moe. I definitely could have worded that question to Vanderschoot a little better.

Up until recently I had a Numa 2 organ. Although this definitely, undoubtedly and without question does not have a Key B engine it does have the ability to change the tonal quality of the drawbars. I have put a link to a Youtube video in which Gianni Giudici demonstrates these different sets. From about 1 min 15 seconds he switches the sets. He refers to each set as a particular Hammond model of yester-year.

I was just a little curious to see if a similar arrangement stood for the Key B Legend and Live Mk2. I was prompted by Vanderschoot's review in which he said (not me) that the new Key B organs had 3 'models' in them, BC, B3 and A100.

Please accept my apologies again Moe for any confusion caused.

 

 

Chris

[Chris Towns]

Pretty sure the Live Mark 2 in the pics is a prototype, hence the nonexistent switches. They will be actual switches later, I'd bet.

 

Doooohhhh !!!

 

My Dad always used to say I was one sandwich short of a picnic !!

 

Chris

[Markay]

Excellent review Andre, seems like they will be keenly priced. With global distribution KeyB could make a real impact this time round.

[vanderSchoot]

André, fabulous report!

 

Since the two different overdrives are selected by a pushbutton and then controlled by a pot, did you get a chance to try out that setup?

 

Dennis

Thanks Dennis, they demonstrated it to me and it is fast enough to change crunch on the fly, if that is what you want to know.

 

I have to say one needs the leslie sim on stop too to get the best out of the Marshall distortion, otherwise it sounds unnatural with the spinning leslie and full crunch.

 

John Lord has shown this in a great video online and the amount of crunch he was able to get from a Marshall stack is far above the realms of any overdriven leslie. Marshall crunch starting at 3.00

[video:youtube]

But this is something you all are very familiar with, but some things are so cool that i don't care how many times it is repeated.

[M_G]

 

Very nice report, Andre! Vielen Dank!

;-)

 

From my point there are some very nice features:

- EFX-send/return

- Analog in with Gain

- Reverb pre Leslie

- Second USB for tablet

- Marshall Amp Sim

 

Regarding the presets:

Do they save only the drawbar settings or is the complete organ state saved?

Would be great to switch from a heavy distorted Marshall setting to a silky soft shimmering leslie fast setting...

 

Gruss

Markus

 

 

[Al Quinn]

Great report Andre! Thank you

[MorayM]

Great post. As others have said, it's an awful lot of clone for the money. Is the Legend going to be a replacement for the Duo then?

[LX88]

The Key B Live is 1800 Euros? That would make it less than the Mojo if I am not mistaken. The Euro is only 14 points above the U.S. dollar now. So it would be about 250 plus 1800, or just about $2000- approximately.

 

That would be a serious consideration.

 

I thought that the short percussion decay could have been improved on the Numa ( when the sim is off ). When the sim is on,it's not a big deal. I also tend to use long decay ( sim off) so that is one of the things that made the Numa work for me. They actually got the long decay sound down pretty good, which players like Joey D. And Tony Monaco are using more these days.

 

I am still waiting to see if they will have decent tech support. Remember, the Numa 1 warranty was two years which came in handy.

[vanderSchoot]

The Key B Live is 1800 Euros? That would make it less than the Mojo if I am not mistaken. The Euro is only 14 points above the U.S. dollar now. So it would be about 250 plus 1800, or just about $2000- approximately.

 

That would be a serious consideration.

 

How is the keybed?

The keybed is good.....and i meant that as a compliment.

Since i can compare to the Hammond new B3 MK2 (my brother who has much more money has one ) i believe that all Fatar TP/80 waterfall keybeds are quite similar......what some companies claim to have bettered in this specific design is in my opinion only marginally.

 

But for some those specific margins could mean a lot though.....

 

The sound was strong and direct.......immediately the tone ''blossoms'' the moment you hit the keys,.....power right under your fingers....I like that.

 

One aspect of the increased costs of the Legend compared to the Live MK2 is the reversed coloured preset keys. It is a more expensive part than one would presume. Fatar reversed coloured preset keys are way more expensive than i would have imagined.

Something i didn't knew before my conversation with Elvio....

 

[Josh Paxton]

I'm really glad to see that KeyB is offering models both with and without reverse-color preset keys, since there are strong fans and detractors on both sides of that issue.

[Chris Towns]

Hi,

 

I have to say that frankly I am baffled.

I went through at least 160 videos of the Frankfurt Messe 2016 on Youtube last night and have not spotted a single one of the Key B stand. Nothing on the Legend and the new Live Mk2. Had it not been for our intrepid roving reporter Vanderschoot we would all be none the wiser. Surely Elvio must realise the importance of informing the masses (after all, we are the ones who are going to buy the products).

I'm hoping that somebody (within Key B) is going to eventually post some videos from frankfurt, but I'm not holding my breath. Most of the other manufacturers have posted their videos for the world to see, why can't DLQ get their act together? Poor show really.

 

Chris

[cgiles]

I didn't think my DUO Mk111 could be improved upon, but this review + the projected price.......ummmmmm. Problem is, I'm not sure what I could get for my Mk111 with no obvious tech support. Wonder if we'll ever get a chance to see one here in the states?

 

chas

[Chris Towns]

Hi,

 

A quick update, I just came off the phone from speaking to Elvio at DLQ in Italy.

 

He told me that Viscount will take over the manufacturing of the new Key B Legend and the Key B Live Mk2 (you already knew this !!!) He also said that he does not have any stock left of previous models.

He went on to say that the despite the organs being shipped into the U.K. by Viscount (I assume to their warehouse in Bicester, near Oxford). He will continue to use Musicworld at Northampton as his U.K. retailer.

I tackled him on the actual price that I would have to pay for a Key B Live Mk2 including all VAT and taxes (not what the retail prices were). He said the total price would be between 1,800 and 1,900 Euros (1,850 Euros is approximately £1,471 U.K. or $2,091 U.S.) For the new Legend I guess you would add 600 Euros (£476 U.K. or $676 U.S.)

 

He then explained that the first models will be available in the U.K. in September 2016, (which is a four and a half month wait).

 

I told him what I said on this Forum two posts up about the lack of videos on Youtube regarding the new Key B organs. He assured me that videos have been done, and will be uploaded to various websites in the coming days.

 

I can only reiterate what Vanderschoot said in previous posts about Elvio and his friendly manner (god he speaks good English). I for one will be buying a new Key B Live mk2 now that I know more information. He did also make the point about the Legend and Live Mk2 having identical sound engines.

 

My apologies to Chas as I did not ask about the U.S.A. but my suggestion is that you do a net search for Viscount Classical Organs in your area as this will be the company that imports the organ to the States. Pat Bianchi is going to have some input with U.S. distribution. He has his own website, so get in touch. I did and he's a really nice guy.

 

http://www.patbianchi.com/

 

I hope some of the information I have given will be of interest, it certainly has been to me.

 

Chris

[vanderSchoot]

Hi,

 

A quick update, I just came of the phone from speaking to Elvio at DLQ in Italy.

 

He told me that Viscount will take over the manufacturing of the new Key B Legend and the Key B Live Mk2 (you already knew this !!!) He also said that he does not have any stock left of previous models.

He went on to say that the despite the organs being shipped into the U.K. by Viscount (I assume to their warehouse in Bicester, near Oxford). He will continue to use Musicworld at Northampton as his U.K. retailer.

I tackled him on the actual price that I would have to pay for a Key B Live Mk2 including all VAT and taxes (not what the retail prices were). He said the total price would be between 1,800 and 1,900 Euros (1,850 Euros is approximately £1,471 U.K. or $2,091 U.S.) For the new Legend I guess you would add 600 Euros (£476 U.K. or $676 U.S.)

 

He then explained that the first models will be available in the U.K. in September 2016, (which is a four and a half month wait).

 

I told him what I said on this Forum two posts up about the lack of videos on Youtube regarding the new Key B organs. He assured me that videos have been done, and will be uploaded to various websites in the coming days.

 

I can only reiterate what Vanderschoot said in previous posts about Elvio and his friendly manner (god he speaks good English). I for one will be buying a new Key B Live mk2 now that I know more information. He did also make the point about the Legend and Live Mk2 having identical sound engines.

 

My apologies to Chas as I did not ask about the U.S.A. but my suggestion is that you do a net search for Viscount Classical Organs in your area as this will be the company that imports the organ to the States. Pat Bianchi is going to have some input with U.S. distribution. He has his own website, so get in touch. I did and he's a really nice guy.

 

http://www.patbianchi.com/

 

I hope some of the information I have given will be of interest, it certainly has been to me.

 

Chris

Good job Chris !!! We are going to make shure the ship sails into port. Small innovative companies are rare these days.....

[Chris Towns]

Hi Vanderschoot,

 

After coming off the phone to Elvio I had a quick think about it, and then rang Trevor at Musicworld, Northampton and put a deposit down on a new Live Mk2 (in black). Something to look forward to in September.

 

Chris

[vanderSchoot]

Hi Vanderschoot,

 

After coming off the phone to Elvio I had a quick think about it, and then rang Trevor at Musicworld, Northampton and put a deposit down on a new Live Mk2 (in black). Something to look forward to in September.

 

Chris

Great ! congradulations man !!!!!......i know it will be a huge, huge step up compared to your Numa 2,......played it in a private hall for exhibitors and it is no match compared to what KeyB is offering in the near future.......on all accounts.

 

André

[WheelHead]

Hi,

 

A quick update, I just came off the phone from speaking to Elvio at DLQ in Italy.

 

He told me that Viscount will take over the manufacturing of the new Key B

 

Gosh Viscount has really come a long way. Going way back as a teen I remember for a short time selling organs between gigs and the Viscounts were about the bottom in price of the organs selling at the time including Baldwin, Gem, Wurlitzer, Yamaha organs. Great news for Viscount though I am sure since then their line has been upped many times (I don't follow usually non-Hammond organs other than non-Hammond clones)

 

WH