Amp Shopping

[Dannyalcatraz]

I'm an inexperienced amp buyer- only bought 1 combo ever. And I like it. However, I'm looking for a new amp to add to my stable.

 

And, of course, as I shop, I find more amps to love. The issue isn't money, but space. I can't buy a combo version of every amp I'm looking at, even if I have the $$$.

 

While I understand and love the simplicity of combos, I'm seriously considering going to head & cab.

 

So I actually have 2 questions:

 

1) if I get a good cab, will it pretty much work well with any head? As in, will one cab handle the tones generated by a typical mainstream rock/pop/blues/C&W head from Fender and still be able to deliver the goods if I plug in something like an Orange or Soldano?

 

2) Impedance. I understand from a course I half paid attention to back in 1985 that it matters, but I don't recall how it all works. I know I don't want to blow my cab- one of the reasons I went with a combo.

[p90jr]

1) Yes. There's a million different speakers, and people have their tastes, but it will "work well," unless you don't like it, which is impossible for anybody else to tell ahead of time.

 

2) Unless you buy a weird one-off Frankenstein amp that uses a strange impedance, you're fine. We're dealing with standard values. The ratings for the amps and cabs will all be noted for you on the sales literature and on the equipment if you want to make sure they absolutely match up perfectly, and there's websites that will explain it all... a lot of the amp heads I've had and owned (and some of the combos) have multiple speaker outputs for different impedance ratings... a commercially sold 2x12 or 4x12 will be set up to match the heads you would probably think to match them with...

 

The quick rule I was given was if the amp only has an 8 ohm output jack, then any cab rated 8 ohms or greater (16 ohm... I've never seen higher) is fine. The higher the ohm rating, the greater the resistance the cab puts up to the voltage the amp is putting out, and the only thing that will happen is that power will be decreased ( a 100 watt 8 ohm amp into a 16 ohm cab will run 50 watts). Going the other direction - and I've noticed amps will sometime have a listed "lowest recommended resistance = 4 ohms" - is where trouble can occur, because if the resistance is lower than the amp is putting out, the amp will start putting out more power than intended and start overheating, causing transformer blow outs and melting circuits... at least at high volumes. I'm sure someone knows much more about that than I do can clarify it all.

 

But still... the stuff you're probably looking into will be in the standard 8 - 16 ohm range. If you're going to buy your own speakers and load a cab, then there's a formula depending on whether you wire them in series or parallel if it's a 2 x 12" or series, parallel, or half series/half-parallel if it's a 4 x 12".

 

I prefer Parallel for 2 x 12s... that way if I blow one speaker, the other keeps chugging and I can finish the gig. The last cab I bought empty and loaded with 2 speakers to use with my AC30 head, I put a pair of Hellatones (Avatar's pre-broken in Celestion Vintage 30s) at 16 ohms each, wired them in parallel to get an 8 ohm load to match the Vox's 8 ohm output rating.

[J. Dan]

Have you considered a modeling combo? I know each model's not going to be as good as the original, but you could cover a lot of bases with one amp, including cabinet models.

[p90jr]

I see something I typed above that is incorrect (attribute it to late night brain)...

 

4 x 12 cabs can be wired in "Series/Parallel," not "half" of each. Essentially, two pairs of series-wired speakers are wired together in parallel. In this wiring scheme, 4 x 8 Ohm speakers = 8 ohms of resistance.

 

Just wanted to be clear and accurate.

[Lokair]

I would say get a good cabinet. 1x12 or 2x12 from marshal or fender or mesa. Rated at 8 ohms would be cover all cabinet that you probably cannot go wrong with, if you like open or closed back keep this in mind when shopping.

I had LOPO cabinet build me a custom 2x12 cabinet vertical with extra bracing where I wanted it and closed back design with no handles. I loaded it with Eminence speakers each rated at 8 ohms wired in parallel for a 4 ohm cabinet. In hind sight I should have made it with two 16 ohm speakers wired in parallel for an 8 ohm cabinet but at the time I wanted a 4 ohm cabinet to go with my amp, I think total cost was 390$ range.

once you have your cabinet then you get try out a large range of heads, from the boutique to the run of the mill.

 

Lok

[p90jr]

I have a couple of Sovtek vertical 2 x 12" cabs with (I think) Eminence speakers that I got for $100 (or less) each back when people had forgotten all about Sovtek for a bit.

 

I also rented a vertical 2 x 12" cab once at a gig out of town that was closed back for the bottom speaker (essentially in it's own compartment) and open for the top. No name on it... the guy said it was just an old cab around the store that he knew nothing about it but everybody loved to play through it, and it did sound great that way... bottom end and "air," for lack of a better word, at the same time.

[BiC]

I posted a similar topic back in 2011. Although nearly 5 years old, you might find some useful advice. BTW, I never bought the amp. Instead, I spent the money on building a custom play yard for my daughter. Link to that topic:

 

Click

 

+Peace><>

 

[Lokair]

BiC I check that post once in while to see if you ever did pull the trigger. Loads of advice in that post.

 

Lok

[Caevan O’Shite]

BiC I check that post once in while to see if you ever did pull the trigger. Loads of advice in that post.

 

Lok

 

And sweet dream amps!

 

 

Much good stuff posted above here.

 

As for speaker cabs:

 

If in doubt, if you have any questions about the combined impedance and power-handling of specific speakers and wiring-schemes, just ask us here.

 

Ask yourself just what sort of sounds you will want the most often. Open-back or closed-back? American or British? Clean, clear, and somewhat neutral, or contributing to breakup and overdrive? Bright and biting, or darker and smoother? Big, tight lows, or vintage-y saggy looseness? Combinations of these characteristics?

 

What is the most powerful tube-amp that you'll be hooking this cab up to? It's a very good rule of thumb- particularly if you push the gain and volume up hard- to go with a combination of speakers which, together, can handle roughly twice or more the nominally rated wattage of the given tube-amp. Tube-amps peak high and can put out hard transient spikes. Throw in wahs, envelope-filters, phasers, overdrive/distortion/boost pedals and the like, and it can be brutal...

 

If you keep the overall volume level fairly low, that is, not seriously cranked, you can get away with lower wattage rated speakers.

 

 

 

Now, I'll tell you what, there are two cabs that are on my soon-must-have list:

 

One is the Fuchs/Feiten Ultralight Vintage 212, which I would want loaded with a mixed combination of speakers along the lines of Celestion Alnico Blue and G12H 30 types. An Eminence Wizard and a Celestion Cream Back would be a nice combination like that, and would be standard options free of upcharge. Ultimately I'd like a pair of these cabs, one with vintage-style low watt speakers, the other with higher watt handling capability. (My dream team choice would be a pair of Scumback/Scumnico speakers based on vintage Celestion G12H and alnico types.)

 

The other would be the Egnater Tourmaster 212x, which can be closed-backed or open-backed via its removable rear-panel. They ship stock with a pair of custom 12" Egnater Celestion Elite-80 speakers, which are full and smooth with some bite when driven hard and a Celestion character, but a little on the generic or all-'rounder side to my ear and feel ("YMMV"); this may make them more versatile yet than some more distinctively voiced speakers, though.

[BiC]

BiC I check that post once in while to see if you ever did pull the trigger. Loads of advice in that post.

 

Lok

 

Yeah... you Gents really came through for me! I'm going to pull the trigger one day. So much has happened since I retired from the military that has hampered progress- moving expenses x2 and buying a brand new home with acreage- I now need to buy a tractor/mower for 8.58 acres and buy what is needed to get settled into a mini-farm. I may be stuck with my 1986 Laney Linebacker... for life.

 

[Caevan O’Shite]

BiC I check that post once in while to see if you ever did pull the trigger. Loads of advice in that post.

 

Lok

 

Yeah... you Gents really came through for me! I'm going to pull the trigger one day. So much has happened since I retired from the military that has hampered progress- moving expenses x2 and buying a brand new home with acreage- I now need to buy a tractor/mower for 8.58 acres and buy what is needed to get settled into a mini-farm.

 

Farmer Rodney aka BiC. I like the image that comes to mind...

 

I may be stuck with my 1986 Laney Linebacker... for life.

 

There are worse things in life... May everyone the world over have such troubles.

[p90jr]

1) if I get a good cab, will it pretty much work well with any head? As in, will one cab handle the tones generated by a typical mainstream rock/pop/blues/C&W head from Fender and still be able to deliver the goods if I plug in something like an Orange or Soldano?

 

For some reason, I read this instantly as you were looking at a Fender Super-sonic amp?

 

A buddy has one... he likes to play metal and it works in that modern high gain zone. I go over and play a Strat through it and get great vintage tones of it. Very versatile amp.

[Dannyalcatraz]

Haven't looked at it.

 

What has me going- like I said- is just the sheer number of amps I like or THINK I'd like.

 

I love my Fender HRD combo, but it doesn't do metal too well, so I started looking at Orange, Jet City and a couple others. As I shopped, I was reminded of how much I liked the Vox amp the HRD beat out by a metaphorical coin-toss.

 

Then I got to sample a buddy's Carvin. And a Mesa.

 

...then someone turned me onto Komet.

 

So, on the one hand, I don't want to lose my Fender clean tones, but I want more tonal options. And owning more than 2-3 combos is currently- and for the forseeable future- not an option.

[Caevan O’Shite]

Haven't looked at it.

 

What has me going- like I said- is just the sheer number of amps I like or THINK I'd like.

 

I love my Fender HRD combo, but it doesn't do metal too well, so I started looking at Orange, Jet City and a couple others. As I shopped, I was reminded of how much I liked the Vox amp the HRD beat out by a metaphorical coin-toss.

 

Then I got to sample a buddy's Carvin. And a Mesa.

 

...then someone turned me onto Komet.

 

So, on the one hand, I don't want to lose my Fender clean tones, but I want more tonal options. And owning more than 2-3 combos is currently- and for the forseeable future- not an option.

 

You could go the route of a head and/or cab switcher, such as the Radial Headbone and Cabbone (R800 7086)...

 

As for cabs, I'd bet that an Orange 2x12 closed-back cab, stock loaded with Celestion Vintage 30's, would do you very well all-around... Great sounding cab, bright upper-mid presence, great knock and KerrrRRRAAANGG... excellent power-handling, great all-around cab for different amps and styles...

[Dannyalcatraz]

Closed back over open backed, hmm... Why?

[Caevan O’Shite]

Closed back over open backed, hmm... Why?

 

Different overall sound, feel, dispersion/ambiance...

 

Effectively, in an oversimplification, think Fender Twin vs Marshall head and closed-back 4x12.

 

An open-back cab has bigger, louder bass- due to freer excursion of the speaker cones- but also looser bass.

 

A closed-back cab will usually have a tighter low-end with more 'knock', or 'kick', which translates into a perceived emphasis on low-lows, as low-mids are more damped and tightly controlled by the effective 'vacuum-pull', if you will, exerted on the speaker-cones by the closed-back enclosure.

 

 

An open-back cab will generally have a wider dispersion of sound flung around the room, front and back, while phase-cancellations add a perceived shimmer and harmonic-overtone swirl.

 

A closed-back cab will usually have more of a "beam" of sound projecting in front of it.

 

 

There are some exceptions where characteristics are blurred and blended, but for the most part, these hold fairly true.

[Bluesape]

If the budget is healthy, definitely check out Kemper and Quilter. Those things are unreal!

[Dannyalcatraz]

Thanks all!

 

Much to think about already, but if you have anything else to add- for me or just posterity & informativeness- go right ahead.

[Caevan O’Shite]

Thanks all!

 

Much to think about already, but if you have anything else to add- for me or just posterity & informativeness- go right ahead.

 

Keep us posted!

[CEB]

1) Most likely, There maybe a times you prefer an open back sound to the closed back push and vice a versa. Depends on how much versitility you want. You can get cabs with removable backs.

 

For general use while not going apeshit on cost I like the Mesa Express 5:50 Plus. 5 watt mode is nice.

[Caevan O’Shite]

1) For general use while not going apeshit on cost I like the Mesa Express 5:50 Plus. 5 watt mode is nice.

 

GREAT sounding and feeling amp, VERY versatile, and small and light! (Looks really sharp, too.) Reif (aka Bluesape) brought one to my place and he sounded great through it.

 

Speaking of smaller, lower-wattage tube-amps- though that MESA/Boogie is on the upper range of that- how do you intend to use your amp(s) most of the time? Will you be recording with a mic and/or D/I? Otherwise mking it up? Or relying on the amp to fill the room?

 

Sometime lower-wattage tube-amps can sound lacking in the lows and low-mids, especially with smaller speakers; though that will often be made up for, and then some, if close-miked, where the lows that the human ear misses in the room will be captured by the mic. This occurs with my Fuchs Lucky 7 head, and a classic example can be found in the countless HUGE sounding recordings made with little Fender Champs, Harvards, Princetons, and Deluxes, and other smaller tube-amps over the decades, particularly in the '60s and '70s.

[Larryz]

I'm drooling over a combo 1 x 12 that goes for about $2,400 bucks and weighs in at 42lbs. I figure the days of trying to fill a large venue are over for me and the amp is going to get mic'ed anyway if I were to get on stage again. If I need to mess up the clean sound I can always throw a Metal Zone in front of it LOL! My 410 DeVille will still fill the void for now and I can save myself a lot of money...but I'm keeping that 20/40 Dr. Z Z-Lux in mind if I get GAS again! http://www.humbuckermusic.com/collections/dr-z-z-lux/products/dr-z-z-lux-112-blonde they make a good head too!

[p90jr]

...then someone turned me onto Komet.

 

 

These are made by my buddies, who are nice enough to fix my junk gear for me... Incredible amps. I get to use one every once in a while... but I'm building up to justifying the expense. And by the way the Komet 19 (19 watts) is LOUDDDDDDD!!!

[Dannyalcatraz]

So I h...

 

So I h...

 

SO I HEAR!

 

[p90jr]

... and that's the baby of the lineup!

[p90jr]

Y'know... since I frequent a bunch o' different sites and boards when things are slow at work I'm never sure what I've already said in one place or the other...

 

so excuse me if I repeat things. I'm not suffering from early onset Alzheimer's (yet).

[Lokair]

Ok I have to bring this up, Mesa is releasing a John Petrucci model mark amp. If i have read it right it is 3 channels of Mark II C+. Its not out yet and I hope the non limited edition is more affordable.

 

http://www.mesaboogie.com/amplifiers/electric/mark-series/jp2c/index.html

 

 

Could be a cool amp

Lok

[desertbluesman]

Ok I have to bring this up, Mesa is releasing a John Petrucci model mark amp. If i have read it right it is 3 channels of Mark II C+. Its not out yet and I hope the non limited edition is more affordable.

 

http://www.mesaboogie.com/amplifiers/electric/mark-series/jp2c/index.html

 

 

Could be a cool amp

Lok

 

I had a Mark IIC+ for many years, very nice amp however it was only 2 channels as I recall. I bought it as a Mark II B, sent it backl to Mesa to "C" it then a bit later on to C+ it. I still have the footswitch for it somewhere. I gave it to a friend of mine as a gift for selling my recording gear back in the late 80's. He is the lead guitarist for "Live at The Fillmore" an Allman Brothers tribute band. But back then he owned a recording gear sales shop called Tekcom in Philly.

 

 

Just to be clear I got twenty five grand from the sale of my 16 channel Otari deck, Tack Scorpion 24x16 board and Otari half track, in a time that it was hard to sell that stuff.

[Scott Fraser]

Just to be clear I got twenty five grand from the sale of my 16 channel Otari deck, Tack Scorpion 24x16 board and Otari half track, in a time that it was hard to sell that stuff.

 

You did very well. I got around $2k for a 1" 16trk, ½" 8trk, 1/4" Otari half trk, & 32x8 mixer. Plus all the cables I could pile in the guy's pickup. I don't miss any of it.

[p90jr]

I love analog recording. Man...