Synthaholic Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 Put this in a 76 key, lightweight package and I'll b the first to order. I second that. Are there any true dyno EPs, ala Bob James and Dan Siegel, with brand new samples? The EPs are the only major classification that I don't like in my PC3. Too thin, too lifeless. The fact there's a Highway To Hell and only a Stairway To Heaven says a lot about anticipated traffic numbers People only say "It's a free country" when they're doing something shitty-Demetri Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synthaholic Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 A weighted 76 would reduce weight what, 5 lbs? Might as well go for the 88. Unless they could package the Forte into say the Artis SE, keeping the weight down AROUND 30 lbs, I'm rooting for the semi-weighted. IMHO 61 keys leaves any piano, acoustic, EP, even clavs out of the picture. Simply have to have at least 76 keys, again, IMHO. Sometimes it's not the weight, but the length, for trying to fit across the backseat of your car. Especially if you are going to add a few more inches with a keyboard case. But mostly, it's the weight. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v707/HandsomeTramp/smilies/tongue.gif I know I'm in the minority, but I'd like to see them offer an even lighter 76 synth action, in addition. It would make a great second board that you could play from a weighted main board. The fact there's a Highway To Hell and only a Stairway To Heaven says a lot about anticipated traffic numbers People only say "It's a free country" when they're doing something shitty-Demetri Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synthaholic Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 Maybe it will prove to be popular and they will make a weighted PC4 76 key in the future or maybe a forte 7 will come up used so I can swap my nord one day. I'm guessing this will be about £1800ish ? So £2000 with a case .. That's doable n the future if I sold the nord and saved up... Glad Kurzweil have done this, but had I known I would've have waited, I'm more than happy with the nord for piano ,organ, and some of the samples but the forte 7 looks so good. I think the MRS would mock me though as I said "yeh the nords expensive but it will last me years before I have some GAS but now Kurzweil release something I e been after in a compact package. Didn't you just buy that Nord? Send it back. The fact there's a Highway To Hell and only a Stairway To Heaven says a lot about anticipated traffic numbers People only say "It's a free country" when they're doing something shitty-Demetri Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synthaholic Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 Major GAS attack. It wouldn't replace my CP4 for jazz or as my main studio board, but I could imagine lots of gigs I could get away with bringing just this. Alternatively, adding my SK1 on top, I'd have a very compact rig with weighted action. Two concerns: * Anyone know how the Forte pianos sound in mono? * My wife killing me. Yeah....And here is a textbook example of highly practical GAS. Problem is, HP GAS is still a difficult sell to spousal units; when it comes to gear, we are all errant dogs. The solution: sell some older stuff you're not using. Make a big deal out of it. Tell her that you want to consolidate all that old tech into something that doesn't take up so much space...and look honey - now you have that closet back, that space under the bed back, etc. And I'm putting the money from all these sales into the Forte, so it won't end up costing that much...honest! The fact there's a Highway To Hell and only a Stairway To Heaven says a lot about anticipated traffic numbers People only say "It's a free country" when they're doing something shitty-Demetri Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brettymike Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 Put this in a 76 key, lightweight package and I'll b the first to order. I second that. Are there any true dyno EPs, ala Bob James and Dan Siegel, with brand new samples? The EPs are the only major classification that I don't like in my PC3. Too thin, too lifeless. Good god , all the EP's are stellar in my older PC1X , and are the most impressive sounds on it - full of life and power....(turn it up) Brett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synthaholic Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 Put this in a 76 key, lightweight package and I'll b the first to order. I second that. Are there any true dyno EPs, ala Bob James and Dan Siegel, with brand new samples? The EPs are the only major classification that I don't like in my PC3. Too thin, too lifeless. Good god , all the EP's are stellar in my older PC1X , and are the most impressive sounds on it - full of life and power....(turn it up) Brett I just don't like them. They're not tiney enough for me. They're not dyno enough for me. I believe DW said in another thread that there are no dyno samples. I'm also frustrated, as a complete non-programmer, that patches like Fagen Phaser have no sliders or mod wheel dedicated to phaser intensity or speed. I wish I could find the time to learn how to assign some of this stuff myself, but it would seem to me that this should already be programmed. The fact there's a Highway To Hell and only a Stairway To Heaven says a lot about anticipated traffic numbers People only say "It's a free country" when they're doing something shitty-Demetri Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rikismyname Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 Maybe it will prove to be popular and they will make a weighted PC4 76 key in the future or maybe a forte 7 will come up used so I can swap my nord one day. I'm guessing this will be about £1800ish ? So £2000 with a case .. That's doable n the future if I sold the nord and saved up... Glad Kurzweil have done this, but had I known I would've have waited, I'm more than happy with the nord for piano ,organ, and some of the samples but the forte 7 looks so good. I think the MRS would mock me though as I said "yeh the nords expensive but it will last me years before I have some GAS but now Kurzweil release something I e been after in a compact package. Didn't you just buy that Nord? Send it back. Yep a few weeks ago. Bought it 2nd hand for £1400 with 6 months left on the warranty with case. I'm guessing the Kurzweil will be £1700 plus a case so still works out to much for now, plus I love the nord stage 2 loads now I have it and have learnt it, just lacks a few things that I've had to use the Roland to handle, mainly being strings and brass. Kurzweil are great and a great company but the 88s were just to long and heavy,the forte 7 is the right size with the right action. If this was available before I bought the nord at around £1500 I might have done it. Unless I'm wrong and this sells for £1400 in that case I'd sell the nord for what I payed and buy the Kurzweil forte 7. So I'll look with interest the pricing(although I doubt it will be £1400) Nord Stage 2 HA76 | Roland FA-06 Gretsch G5420s I H&K Statesman | Strymon Flint | Catalinbread SCP | Source Audio Nemesis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Coda Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 I'm also frustrated, as a complete non-programmer, that patches like Fagen Phaser have no sliders or mod wheel dedicated to phaser intensity or speed. I wish I could find the time to learn how to assign some of this stuff myself, but it would seem to me that this should already be programmed. Go to Program 25 Hotrodded Dyno Rhodes and find out how it´s done there w/ the chorus where sliders MIDI 25 and 26 control LFO speed and LFO depth. In regards of FX amount for chorus or phaser, you can do the same w/ the MIX parameter p.ex.. But you will never get rid of the sample jumps on the PC3 Rhodes programs. The FORTE will be an improvement for sure w/ it´s new sample sets, but editing FX chains in depth on the FORTE is only possible using the software editor and this is what holds be back from buying a FORTE. There is NO program I use in the PC3 w/ stock FX chains/settings, so for me it´s essential I can edit everything from the front panel (which is faster anyway). My PC3 is almost never connected to a computer, except DAW work. A.C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HB73 Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 I think Kurz have hit the nail on the head with this one guys, FINALLY a weighted board with with less than 88 keys but more than 64 AND pitch + mod wheels that are not to the left of the keyboard. (I actually prefer the korg style joystick but can live with the wheels). That reduction of length makes a massive difference carting the board to gigs, in and out of the car and when playing on tiny stages. It is about time keyboard manufacturers pick up on this. It is now only Korg and Roland out of the bigger players that haven't followed this trend. I'll be taking a very close look at this one when I can, for me as a gigging board it ticks pretty much every box. The Nord Stage will still have the edge with hammond sounds, not by much though, I find the KB3 sits in the mix very well. If the Forte 7 comes in cheaper than the Stage, I'll most likely be picking one. I did have a very very brief play of the Forte a while back and I can remember thinking that the APs and EPs sounded fantastic, and this is coming from a regular Korg kronos user. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomKittel Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 The Forte 7 disappeared from the Kurzweil website again.... does that bode nothing good? LIFE IS SHORT, GO GET THE GEAR YOU WANT ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rikismyname Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 The Forte 7 disappeared from the Kurzweil website again.... does that bode nothing good? Maybe they are editing it. It said Prelimanary or something before at the bottom. Nord Stage 2 HA76 | Roland FA-06 Gretsch G5420s I H&K Statesman | Strymon Flint | Catalinbread SCP | Source Audio Nemesis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomKittel Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Wanna convert your Forte into a virtual synth tweakable in realtime with panel controls? Check this out: http://www.barbandco.com/store/p47/U-Max_101.html Forte blows Nord Stage or Kronos out of the water in any sound category. Maybe not so much with organ/leslie sounds. LIFE IS SHORT, GO GET THE GEAR YOU WANT ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherScott Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 I know I'm in the minority, but I'd like to see them offer an even lighter 76 synth action, in addition. It would make a great second board that you could play from a weighted main board. Same here. AFAIK, Nord is the only company to have offered a 7x weigted and a 7x semis-weighted of the same board (Stage series), and apparently they have had success wth that, maybe Kurz will finally follow suit. Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennyray Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Hard to compare Kurz and Nord to Kronos. The Kronos is a workstation that samples instruments, has a sequencer, built in drum programs, and touchscreen that makes for easy navigation. and is cheaper than Kurz or Nord but as far as soundwise they are all great boards to me. Weight is not really a problem for me as if i spend that much money i am sure i can lift the keyboard. I listened to the Utube videos and the Kronos pianos sound better to me but this is always subjective. I just think the Kurz and Nord are overpriced for what you actually get in a stage piano. These are all great boards and people have different views and sounds are in the ear of the beholder. I would like to have all 3 boards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burningbusch Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Wanna convert your Forte into a virtual synth tweakable in realtime with panel controls? Check this out: http://www.barbandco.com/store/p47/U-Max_101.html Forte blows Nord Stage or Kronos out of the water in any sound category. Maybe not so much with organ/leslie sounds. Right, how could the Kronos synth engines possibly compete with this? 2 oscillators section : Oscillator 1 - SAW and SQUARE with PW and PWM, - a SUB oscillator with -1 or -2 octave settings with SQUARE or PULSE waveform - a NOISE source The oscillator 1 structure is clearly inspired from the JUNO / SH series... Oscillator 2 - SAW or SQUARE setting with hardsync Oscillator 1 and oscillator 2 can be ring modulated Filter section : 24 types of filtering mode, see the 'umax_filters' PDF file in the utility files section Modulations : 2 envelopes : - 1 Attack / Release envelope for the amplitude - 1 attack / decay envelope for the filter 2 LFO'S : - LFO 1 for vibrato - LFO 2 hardwired to OSC 1 PWM, OSC 2 sync offset and FILTER 1 ramp : hardwired to OSC 1 frequency and OSC 2 sync offset OSC 2 can modulate the FILTER frequency too Drive : There is a post-filter overdrive circuit just before the output... 8 voice polyphony. Busch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomKittel Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Hard to compare Kurz and Nord to Kronos. Why are these hard to compare? If you are on the search for the best sounding piano and Rhodes sounds etc. just go and compare the available instruments. Then go for the one you like best. I just think the Kurz and Nord are overpriced for what you actually get in a stage piano. Seetwater prices: Kronos 88 = $3,699 Forte 88 = $3,995 Stage 2 = $4,499 Stage 2EX = $4,999 LIFE IS SHORT, GO GET THE GEAR YOU WANT ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
16251 Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Seetwater prices: Kronos 88 = $3,699 Forte 88 = $3,995 Stage 2 = $4,499 Stage 2EX = $4,999 At this rate, in 10 years top of the line boards will cost $7,000? AvantGrand N2 | ES520 | Gallien-Krueger MK & MP | https://soundcloud.com/pete36251 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElmerJFudd Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Let's reorder that better for the eye..... Seetwater prices: Stage 2EX = $4,999 - $500 gets you last year's Stage 2 for $4,499 Stage 2 = $4,499 - an additional $504 (or $1004 total) gets you a current generation Forte 88 Forte 88 = $3,995 - an additional $504 (or $1508 total) gets you Kronos 88 Kronos 88 = $3,699 At this rate, in 10 years top of the line boards will cost $7,000? I am certain they all sell less top end models than the rest of their lines. Although, the profit margin is certainly greater. Clearly the players that are driving this segment of the market have told manufactures (with their wallets) that $4k is their breaking point. Nord has ignored this in the US and succeeded (no doubt helped by creating a very active second hand market). I am sure we remember when that was true for the Motif line. Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Coda Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 The Forte 7 disappeared from the Kurzweil website again.... does that bode nothing good? TP40L ??? Yesterday it said Fatar TP40L 76 keys e-g, but I´ve never seen any 76 keys keyboard which came w/ this action,- up to now. Up to now,the Fatar TP40L wasn´t available in a 76 keys version at all. I´d appreciate if it were though ! A.C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennyray Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Tomkittel, Most people use workstations for different purposes than stage pianos as a whole. Thats why they are hard to compare like apples and oranges. Hope you get what i mean its very simple although you can compare sounds but not features cause the Kronos is a workstation that does alot more bang for the buck. I hope this makes sense. Thats all i was saying you can compare sounds but you have to consider features also. You cannot go wrong with any of these boards. I am confused now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Coda Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Forte blows Nord Stage or Kronos out of the water in any sound category. Maybe not so much with organ/leslie sounds. THAT´S a JOKE ! All, except new ac. pianos, new e-pianos, harpsichord and some tuned percussion, is what you already have in the PC3 series plus some from KORE64 ... Already in the synth department, a PC3 falls short against a Kronos. It´s hard to program a synth sound which doesn´t alias in the upper ranges on the PC3, also the LFOs alias and are lame in addition. In the VA, saw and square waveforms work, all the other incl. PWM introduce aliasing which is CLEARLY audible. Only 1 ENV per layer you can modulate, the AMPENV. Meh ... I like and use my PC3, but I know what it cannot do too. The FORTE technology might be a step forward in technology for Kurzweil, but they have to do MUCH more homework before they will release anything blowing everything other out of the water, regardless in which category. A.C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherScott Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Tomkittel, Most people use workstations for different purposes than stage pianos as a whole. Thats why they are hard to compare like apples and oranges. The issue is that, if someone doesn't need "workstation" features but just wants strong piano/organ/rompler/synth sounds in a performance board, well, Korg doesn't really make a board like that, so if you like the Korg sounds, you have to get the Kronos with everything else too. So some people do buy the Kronos essentially as a "stage piano" (i.e. "performance board") and just don't use the "workstation" features (sampling, sequencing) because that's still the Korg that comes closest to what they want. (The closest thing Korg specifically makes as that kind of "performance" board is the SV1, which does not have much in the way of organ/synth/rompler sounds.) For those who are looking for something compact and weighted, the Forte looks to have a significant advantage in footprint over the Kronos 73. And at least to some people's tastes, better pianos and/or action. Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennyray Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Al Coda i could not have said it better myself. I have owned Kurzweils in the past and in the past they had some of the best pianos in a keyboard but fell behind the curve and have made strides in catching up with Korg, Yamaha, Roland, Nord on piano sounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomKittel Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Tomkittel, Most people use workstations for different purposes than stage pianos as a whole. Thats why they are hard to compare like apples and oranges. Hope you get what i mean its very simple although you can compare sounds but not features cause the Kronos is a workstation that does alot more bang for the buck. I hope this makes sense. Thats all i was saying you can compare sounds but you have to consider features also. You cannot go wrong with any of these boards. I am confused now I talked about sound, not features. To my ears Kurzweil always had a certain basic tone quality I couldn't find in any other instrument. This goes back to the times of the K2000. The Forte seems to continue this tradition even in the piano and Rodes area. It's only my perception and I don't own a Forte. LIFE IS SHORT, GO GET THE GEAR YOU WANT ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomKittel Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Forte blows Nord Stage or Kronos out of the water in any sound category. Maybe not so much with organ/leslie sounds. THAT´S a JOKE ! All, except new ac. pianos, new e-pianos, harpsichord and some tuned percussion, is what you already have in the PC3 series plus some from KORE64 ... Already in the synth department, a PC3 falls short against a Kronos. It´s hard to program a synth sound which doesn´t alias in the upper ranges on the PC3, also the LFOs alias and are lame in addition. In the VA, saw and square waveforms work, all the other incl. PWM introduce aliasing which is CLEARLY audible. Only 1 ENV per layer you can modulate, the AMPENV. Meh ... I like and use my PC3, but I know what it cannot do too. The FORTE technology might be a step forward in technology for Kurzweil, but they have to do MUCH more homework before they will release anything blowing everything other out of the water, regardless in which category. A.C. Relax and listen to Barb's demos. And then to these below ;-) LIFE IS SHORT, GO GET THE GEAR YOU WANT ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Ferris Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 moved to separate thread https://soundcloud.com/dave-ferris https://www.youtube.com/@daveferris2709 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElmerJFudd Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Haha, oh, no, Dave. The teaching gigs will all be outsourced to 5 guys that do it via live video feed from home. They won't be paid as professors, they'll be sub-contractors so the uni doesn't have to provide pension or benies. On the brighter side, hey, that Kurzweil 76 weighted looks like a pretty neat instrument. Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Coda Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Relax and listen to Barb's demos. And then to these below ;-) Why should I listen to Youtube sound demos when I go by ear and have my PC3 side by side w/ my Minimoog D, Oberheim Xpander, DX7mkIIFD, TG77, TX816, Korg Wavestation SR synthwise ? There were more I already sold,- Moog Source, Taurus, Prophet 5, OB-8, Matrix-1000, Roland MKS80 & 70. ALL the "do it all in one machine" keyboard instruments are compromize products,- and so is the PC3 VAST engine. It´s digital and has it´s limits. That doesn´t mean it is bad, but it is definitely different and doesn´t replace other good synths. The comparison also rules for the on SHARC DSPs running synth engines/emulations incl. big modulars I run on my Sonic Core XITE-1 box which are free from aliasing and latency. The VAST engine has already latency between layers and the aliasing in addition. Also OSC sync aliases like hell and modulation @audio rate doesn´t exist at all. And where´s the poly portamento/glide ? When we hear patches from commercial 3rd party programmers, it´s all about the programming and they avoid to show up w/ patches demonstrating weaknesses of a machine. All the demos shine more or less. No question, a VAST engine can do things OTHERS CANNOT do. That´s fine and that´s because I have it and use it. That said, I was never and I´m still not after a keyboard which does it all,- so I don´t have many problems w/ weaknesses of any machine. They all have advantages and disadvantages, so I use every single piece of gear for what it does best. But from a ~$4K professional instrument like the FORTE I expect full editing from front panel out of the box and no 3rd party software crap to use,- so it´s not for me. For me, there´s NONE existing and "blowing everything out of the water" (in any category),- that would be pure fanboy BS. The whole line is BS anyway. A.C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Weiser Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 The Forte 7 disappeared from the Kurzweil website again.... does that bode nothing good? Maybe they are editing it. It said Prelimanary or something before at the bottom. Just checked with someone over at Kurz. The Forte7 page is going back up in a few days. They're probably making a few edits and coordinating with sales. Don't think there would be any spec changes. https://www.theboywhowantedtorock.com http://www.weisersound.com https://www.facebook.com/weisersound Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomKittel Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Relax and listen to Barb's demos. And then to these below ;-) Why should I listen to Youtube sound demos when I go by ear and have my PC3 side by side w/ my Minimoog D, Oberheim Xpander, DX7mkIIFD, TG77, TX816, Korg Wavestation SR synthwise ? There were more I already sold,- Moog Source, Taurus, Prophet 5, OB-8, Matrix-1000, Roland MKS80 & 70. ALL the "do it all in one machine" keyboard instruments are compromize products,- and so is the PC3 VAST engine. It´s digital and has it´s limits. That doesn´t mean it is bad, but it is definitely different and doesn´t replace other good synths. The comparison also rules for the on SHARC DSPs running synth engines/emulations incl. big modulars I run on my Sonic Core XITE-1 box which are free from aliasing and latency. The VAST engine has already latency between layers and the aliasing in addition. Also OSC sync aliases like hell and modulation @audio rate doesn´t exist at all. And where´s the poly portamento/glide ? When we hear patches from commercial 3rd party programmers, it´s all about the programming and they avoid to show up w/ patches demonstrating weaknesses of a machine. All the demos shine more or less. No question, a VAST engine can do things OTHERS CANNOT do. That´s fine and that´s because I have it and use it. That said, I was never and I´m still not after a keyboard which does it all,- so I don´t have many problems w/ weaknesses of any machine. They all have advantages and disadvantages, so I use every single piece of gear for what it does best. But from a ~$4K professional instrument like the FORTE I expect full editing from front panel out of the box and no 3rd party software crap to use,- so it´s not for me. For me, there´s NONE existing and "blowing everything out of the water" (in any category),- that would be pure fanboy BS. The whole line is BS anyway. A.C. Fanboy BS vs. smart alec. Nice. LIFE IS SHORT, GO GET THE GEAR YOU WANT ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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