Ravenscroft: new VILabs piano

[SK]

new videos

[video:youtube]

[video:youtube]

 

[midinut]

Downloading now and watching the above videos. Does anyone make a 3-Pedal unit like they were showing in the first video that would work with your choice of controller? If not, somebody needs to get on that right away ... Tom? Tom? Ground Control to Major Tom? You come up for air yet?

[Ashville.Guru]

Guru - I appreciate your advice.

 

512 is the default setting. I'll try 128, and then 64.

 

The Presonus Firebox driver was written for Windows 7. Although I'm using the compatibility mode for Windows 8.1, I doubt this would cause any problems since Win 7 and Win 8.1 are so similar. Right?

Dunno about that, Tom. I'm running Win 7, been too scared to make the transition - if it ain't broke, and all that .

 

But my gut says it should be fine. I've heard that latency is actually lower on Win 8 than 7. Just make sure you have the latest drivers downloaded from the Presonus site - FW devices across the board got a few updates last year that make them much faster.

 

-------------

 

I have two questions for anyone who's spent adequate time with the Ravenscroft VI:

1. Like @Beethree, I'm interested in mono for a stage setting. Pianoteq allows me to have multiple outs, each for a different mic position. So I have a single mic going to FoH as mono, and two mics giving me stereo monitoring . Can this be replicated with the VI instrument?
   
2. Pianoteq and Ivory allow you to set the dynamic range, even assign it for real-time manipulation. I find this invaluable for live use. Is there an equivalent in the VI instrument?

Any info would be appreciated! TIA.

 

- Guru

 

EDIT: Just saw the website, the 'Dynamics' knob seems to be the answer to #2. Still, I'm very curious - the website says "setting this knob to 0% results in no dynamic range and everything is the same volume", just as it does in Pianoteq. This is a great way to get a feel for timbre changes with velocity. In Pianoteq, you can hear a drastic color/timbre shift with touch, at the same volume. Is it the same with the VI? This would address @sMatt's contention earlier that there isn't much color change when you dig in.

[midinut]

The link for the UVI Workstation is not working for me. I download it fine but I got nothing to open it with. Tried the 64-bit Win version then the 32-bit and got the same results. The piano files (4) are unzipped, I've got them as a .ufs file ready to roll. I just can't get the UVI workstation to DL correctly. That, or I'm just not holding my mouth right ...

 

Any suggestions would be appreciated

[mfiadeiro]

midinut:

I use UVI Workstation Win x64 in standalone mode without any problems at all.

 

Did you got any error using WinRAR to expand the sfs file? In my laptop it has a size of 35,026,484,909 bytes.

 

Did you got any errors when loading the sfs file into the UVI Workstation?

 

 

 

[chas50]

Hey midinut,

Is uvi partially installed?

If yes, maybe uninstall it, reboot, and try downloading it again?

Also, vilabs support would help you.

[midinut]

I've tried downloading it 4 times now on two different computers. I get a file with no file extension. It is named "uviworkstation-x64-2-2-1" with no dot anything after it. Maybe I'll try downloading it from UVI's website instead of VI Labs and see if I have better luck. Gotta run to school now but I'll try that later today after class! Thanks guys!

[voxpops]

I've tried downloading it 4 times now on two different computers. I get a file with no file extension. It is named "uviworkstation-x64-2-2-1" with no dot anything after it. Maybe I'll try downloading it from UVI's website instead of VI Labs and see if I have better luck. Gotta run to school now but I'll try that later today after class! Thanks guys!

Sounds like a new file version. The one I have is uviworkstation-x64-2-2-0.exe They may have accidentally deleted the extension. You could try manually inserting the ".exe" extension and then seeing if that opens it, or search for the "0" version. Failing all that, if you have dropbox, I could try sending you the one I have - just PM me, if you'd like to give that a go (as long as that's not classed as "redistribution" and doesn't violate the license terms).

[LX88]

I decided to wait on ordering this and forego the 50 dollar savings.

 

I wanted to hear more about how it was working out for people, and how all the downloading was going.

 

I am fairly retarded as far my understanding of computer termninology. Most people are far ahead of the learning curve that I am at.

 

I decided to hold off till the reviews were in and until some people had tried using it with 4 gig of memory etc. I want to see what is really needed with this thing.

 

Also, I don't usually care for "edgy" digital pianos and was to see if I could avoid that with the Ravenscroft sample. I generally like to play grand pianos with the lid closed. It probably has something to do with cabinet resonance that I like.

 

Anyway, I am waiting till more reports are in regarding this. I really would like to have a great digital piano sound at home for practicing and writing. Still hoping this is the one I need.

[ITGITC]

Does anyone make a 3-Pedal unit like they were showing in the first video that would work with your choice of controller?

 

Did someone answer this?

 

You need a (specific) continuous controller input for a sustain pedal that will do half-pedaling.

 

I don't think anyone offers a controller that you can use this type of sustain pedal (like a Yamaha FC3) in an input designed for a volume/wah pedal.

 

Tom

 

[George88]

I played with it for about 30 minutes with various mics. It's an astounding instrument.

[voxpops]

@LX88 After trying (with only limited success) to get satisfactory performance using the UVI workstation in standalone mode, I eventually downloaded the 64-bit Cantabile Lite to use as a host, and opened UVI in that. Now I'm getting excellent performance with ASIO4ALL drivers on a Surface Pro (i5, 4GB). For the most part I'm just using the close mic setting without reverb.

 

If you're after a dark, more mellow timbre, I don't think this is the piano you'd want, but having said that there is quite a bit of adjustment available. It plays beautifully and is very responsive. The mids/upper mids are perhaps not my favorite part of the emulation, but taken overall it's a great piece of software, and appears to have been painstakingly crafted.

 

I would love to compare this side by side with Ivory American Concert D (which sounds amazing in the demos), but I can't justify another software piano at the moment. Put against Pianoteq, I'd say that PT has a slightly more immediate presence, and is ultra smooth using the PX-5S's expanded MIDI protocol. However, the Ravenscroft has a crisper staccato response and also has remarkably smooth dynamics for a sampled instrument.

 

Installation and authorizing is not for the impatient or fainthearted, but if you watch the tutorial on the VI Labs site, and take it steadily, you should be fine. I much prefer Pianoteq's simple authorization, which allows for installation on three machines, and quick license swapping when you buy a new PC.

[ITGITC]

I decided to hold off till the reviews were in and until some people had tried using it with 4 gig of memory etc. I want to see what is really needed with this thing.

 

LX88,

 

I don't think the 4GB RAM limitation is as much of a problem as storage, for some folks.

 

My Macbook Air has 128 GB of storage and 4GB RAM. I would have love to have used it, but I've got Logic and some other applications loaded and there's no room. This model has USB 2.0 (slow) ports. If it had USB 3.0, I could use an external drive to load the samples. USB 3.0 rocks.

 

My Windows machine has plenty of RAM, plenty of storage, plenty of CPU power.

 

I've got some latency issues and have not had an opportunity to try the suggestions that Guru gave me in this thread. When those are worked out, I am certain I will enjoy the features of this VSTi, not to mention the sound quality.

 

I'll post about this when I get a chance.

 

Tom

 

[midinut]

Does anyone make a 3-Pedal unit like they were showing in the first video that would work with your choice of controller?

 

Did someone answer this?

 

You need a (specific) continuous controller input for a sustain pedal that will do half-pedaling.

 

I don't think anyone offers a controller that you can use this type of sustain pedal (like a Yamaha FC3) in an input designed for a volume/wah pedal.

 

Tom

 

I've got a Korg DS-1H pedal for my Kronos which does half-damper or half-pedaling or whatever. If I use my Kronos as a controller for Ravenscroft, I figure it will recognize and sense the half-pedaling. But who wants to control this beautiful piano with a 61-note keyboard? I haven't got all that figured out yet. It just seems to me that somebody ought to be able to come up with a 3-pedal unit. Even if it had 3 cables coming out of it - each controlling a different keyboard, or 3 assignments to the same unit. That way you could have sustain, sostenuto, and soft all in the same unit if you are using something (hardware or software) that could handle it. I may not have my terms correct, but hopefully you get my drift. I am by no means a true "piano" player. I've just been hacking my way along all these years but I just had that thought about the pedal system and wonder why no one has come up with something that does that. I seem to remember Kurzweil having a triple pedal years ago but I feel certain it only worked with their stuff.

 

We've all been lucky enough in the last decade to witness and benefit from the dramatic changes in VST and hardware sound/sample quality. I know we all have our buttons which get pushed around here. True Hammond heads can't see themselves playing anything but a "real" Hammond and clones just won't do. I have owned and played Hammonds over the years but VB3 gets me 90% there to my ears and for my needs. Same with pianos. I have a very nice Yamaha S90 sample in HALion Sonic 2 that I was totally okay with. I also have The Grand 3 by Steinberg which has a Yamaha C7, a Steinway D, a Bosendorfer 290, and upright, and a CP-80 Electic Grand. I have Komplete 9 as well so I have all the NI pianos, and now the Ravenscroft. I think I've got plenty to choose from. But as our buddy Steve pointed out, it's about choosing the right piano that fits the song. Or playing the different pianos and one stands out when you play a new riff you come up with. That, to me anyway, is what it's all about - having the right tool for the job in your toolbox. I remember when I first got into VSTs I bought SampleTank XL and was blown away then by the quality of sampled guitars, pianos, Rhodes, strings, etc. None of my hardware had sounds that were comparable. SampleTank kinda suffered over time by getting long in the tooth (SampleTank 3 may very well bring it back up to speed again), but it was so cool to have this wonderful variety of sounds at my disposal. It was a gateway drug for me into the VST world. I tell my wife from time to time, "if I never bought another VST instrument, it would take the rest of my life to learn and figure out the ones that I own." Technology has made these days some wonderful times to be a player.

[chas50]

You're so right man.

Thanking my lucky stars.

If I compare my hardware to what I had 25 years ago.

And then vst world that I have just started to explore.

Really, its not perfect. But its awesome beyond words.

[bryanstern]

More later (as I am working), but after hours of frustration and trial and error, have Ravenscroft up and running. Really enjoying it. Sounds beautiful with close close mic and a little Tone adjustment. So even, which is something I don't have with Vintage D which has a few weird notes.

 

So, more later. But, definitely happy with purchase.

[midinut]

Yeah, I got it working. Had no problem downloading the .exe file from UVI's website. Sounds awesome !! I do believe I could go under and not come up for hours. But that's a good thing, right?

Playing this thing makes me grin from ear to ear ...

 

Next question - how can I use it on two PCs (desktop and laptop) without purchasing an iLok dongle? Or can this be done? It would seem that the license manager will let you drag it from one PC to another. Would this involve de-authorizing it on one and re-authorizing it on the other (and then back and forth as needed)? Or can I just break down and buy an iLok and switch it between PCs? For what it's worth I do this with my Steinberg dongle already and it's not really THAT big a deal for me.

[SK]

Good to hear you finally got it working, midi nut.

 

I use an iLok, so I just switch out the dongle to another computer. For questions like this, maybe contact Vi Labs, email or phone... they're very helpful.

[Markyboard]

Does anyone make a 3-Pedal unit like they were showing in the first video that would work with your choice of controller?

 

Did someone answer this?

 

You need a (specific) continuous controller input for a sustain pedal that will do half-pedaling.

 

I don't think anyone offers a controller that you can use this type of sustain pedal (like a Yamaha FC3) in an input designed for a volume/wah pedal.

 

Tom

 

Tom-

Not sure I understand your question but I use an FC3 through my PC3x and it controls half pedaling for Ivory II just fine. I assume this will work for most controllers with a CC pedal input

[ITGITC]

Does anyone make a 3-Pedal unit like they were showing in the first video that would work with your choice of controller?

 

Did someone answer this?

 

You need a (specific) continuous controller input for a sustain pedal that will do half-pedaling.

 

I don't think anyone offers a controller that you can use this type of sustain pedal (like a Yamaha FC3) in an input designed for a volume/wah pedal.

 

Tom

 

Tom-

Not sure I understand your question but I use an FC3 through my PC3x and it controls half pedaling for Ivory II just fine. I assume this will work for most controllers with a CC pedal input

 

OK. Then I am mistaken.

 

Thanks!

 

[chas50]

quote from Lance Herring at PW:

"And remember, for those that don't have a physical iLok key, you can authorize your license now to your computer hard drive thus eliminating the need for an iLok key if you prefer."

 

I think you do just what you said midinut, just authorize using license manager, only 1 computer allowed at a time.

[midinut]

Those that just bought Ravenscroft should be aware that VI Labs is offering an upgrade to the other 3 pianos they make for $199USD for owners of at least one product. Under the Products menu on their web site click True Keys: Upgrade

 

It says you must own one of the original "singles". That could possibly mean only owners of the American, Italian, or German models. I'll try to call tomorrow and check to see if this offer would apply owners of Ravenscroft.

 

Just thought some of you may want to know ... (ducks for cover)

 

Edited:

I just received the following email from VI Labs:

 

"The True keys Upgrade only applies if you bought one of the true keys single pianos, it does not work for the Ravenscroft.

We will have a discount for owners of True Keys to get the ravenscroft and also for Ravenscroft users to get on of the True Keys pianos or the full package. We will send a newsletter about it."

 

So I want to apologize for jumping the gun on this. I got excited when I stumbled across it.

I still am looking forward to owning the rest of the collection at some point.

 

 

 

[Ashville.Guru]

I've got a Korg DS-1H pedal for my Kronos which does half-damper or half-pedaling or whatever. If I use my Kronos as a controller for Ravenscroft, I figure it will recognize and sense the half-pedaling. But who wants to control this beautiful piano with a 61-note keyboard? I haven't got all that figured out yet. It just seems to me that somebody ought to be able to come up with a 3-pedal unit. Even if it had 3 cables coming out of it - each controlling a different keyboard, or 3 assignments to the same unit. That way you could have sustain, sostenuto, and soft all in the same unit if you are using something (hardware or software) that could handle it. I may not have my terms correct, but hopefully you get my drift. I am by no means a true "piano" player. I've just been hacking my way along all these years but I just had that thought about the pedal system and wonder why no one has come up with something that does that. I seem to remember Kurzweil having a triple pedal years ago but I feel certain it only worked with their stuff.

While a dedicated 3-pedal unit would be ideal, its easy to recreate the functionality. It's important to note that there's nothing specific about half-pedalling. Your pedal has to communicate with the VI piano through MIDI CCs, and MIDI CCs are interconvertible and non-specific.

 

So any pedal that sends continuous values can be used for half-pedalling - but there's a catch. Whatever it's plugged into needs to convert pedal position into CC. Typically this is the controller keyboard itself, but not necessarily. You could use the new MidiExpression device to use any expression pedal for half pedalling. Also, the pedal doesnt have to be connected to the same keyboard controller. So you can use your Korg DS-1H but with a weighted controller.

 

Bottomline: you could have 3 different pedals just placed together, but hooked into different things, and yet have them function exactly like a 3-pedal unit for the Ravenscroft VI (Frankenpedal!). And with half-pedalling.

 

- Guru

[SK]

midinut, I use the Roland DP-10 for half-pedaling, and they make a 3 pedal unit containing the DP-10. http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/DP10 I realize this pedal may not be compatible with your keyboard, and I'm sure there are other solutions for you out there.

 

The point of this post is that I use this damper pedal along with a second pedal for a soft pedal. Since the soft pedal/una corda notes were separately sampled in Ravenscroft, the soft pedal really adds an extra dimension.

 

So a two pedal solution might be the way to go.

[ITGITC]

 

OK. I get it now.

 

I decided to swap out my Nord Electro 3 HP.

 

So I pulled my ancient K2000 out of the closet and wiped off the mold. The batteries were nearly dead, but they had not corroded (yet).

 

The action is surprisingly good for a synth action. All the keys still work fine. The pitch bend and mod wheels are good. But, calling up the acoustic piano programs, and others, made me wonder why I have held onto it. In fact, I'm thinking of selling its SKB hard case... with free gift with purchase - a K2000! For a keyboard that I bought in 1991, over twenty years ago, I think I got my money out of it... and more.

 

So, I replaced the K2000 with my PC2X. By comparison, it's a baby at only 14 years old. It works. It wasn't too moldy. And it's a fine controller. The action is a lot better (less bouncy) than the NE3HP. But it weighs a TON! I can't believe I used to gig with this thing!

 

So I listened to the PC2X famed Triple-Strike piano one more time, just to be able to compare it to Ravenscroft.

 

That took about three minutes.

 

OK. Surprise. There is absolutely no comparison.

 

All I can say is, "Ain't (new) technology great?"

 

So, I'll put the NE3HP in its case for gigs and jams. I'll leave the PC2X in place to use as a controller for Ravenscroft.

 

Regarding Ravenscroft, I reset my buffer and changed the driver type. Here are the current settings:

 

API: ASIO

Output Device: Firebox ASIO x64

Sample Rate 44,100

Buffer Size 64

 

MIDI Devices: PreSonus Firebox MIDI In

 

So, I got rid of quite a bit of latency by changing the driver type from MME to ASIO. However, there is a third type: Windows WASAPI. Does anyone have experience using this vs. ASIO?

 

[EDIT: OK. I tried it and get no output. Back to using ASIO.]

 

I'm still getting a tiny bit of latency. Is this to be expected?

 

Other than that, I'm reading the manual and checking out all the options with Ravenscroft. It's quite impressive and a major step up for me, just as I had hoped.

 

So, I'm a convert. This was $150 well spent.

 

Tom

 

[Ashville.Guru]

Nice to hear, Tom...

 

I'm still getting a tiny bit of latency. Is this to be expected?

Actually, no. Your PreSonus FB is one of the fastest interfaces out there, and your system is no slouch, either. You should be seeing near-hardware levels of latency. 2 suggestions to try out:

• Try downloading and installing the very latest driver from the Presonus website. FW updates have been very frequent over the past few months, even.
  
• Try setting the buffer size at 32. If there are no pops or clicks, you're good to go.
  

The best way to check for latency - route both the internal piano from your controller (Triple Strike?) and the Ravenscroft VI through a mixer. Better still, pan them to different monitors. You shouldn't detect any delay.

 

- Guru

[ITGITC]

Nice to hear, Tom...

 

I'm still getting a tiny bit of latency. Is this to be expected?

Actually, no. Your PreSonus FB is one of the fastest interfaces out there, and your system is no slouch, either. You should be seeing near-hardware levels of latency. 2 suggestions to try out:

• Try downloading and installing the very latest driver from the Presonus website. FW updates have been very frequent over the past few months, even.
  
• Try setting the buffer size at 32. If there are no pops or clicks, you're good to go.
  

The best way to check for latency - route both the internal piano from your controller (Triple Strike?) and the Ravenscroft VI through a mixer. Better still, pan them to different monitors. You shouldn't detect any delay.

 

- Guru

 

Thank you, Guru.

 

A couple of things:

 

Personus considers the Firebox a legacy product and states that the drivers are incompatible in Windows 8.1. KLONK

 

Bummer, huh?

 

So, I'm trying to decide how to move forward. All I need is a MIDI to USB interface cable like this one made by Roland. KLONK

 

Is there any reason not to consider that interface?

 

The UVI Workstation that is the standalone host for Ravenscroft will only let me choose a buffer size of 64, no lower.

 

I will take your advice and compare the Ravenscroft audio output on the right side with the PC2X audio output on the left side to determine if I'm hearing latency - or perhaps I'm just a little crazier than I was yesterday.

 

Thanks for all your help here!!

 

Tom

 

[Dana.]

So I listened to the PC2X famed Triple-Strike piano one more time, just to be able to compare it to Ravenscroft.

 

That took about three minutes.

 

OK. Surprise. There is absolutely no comparison.

[ITGITC]

So I listened to the PC2X famed Triple-Strike piano one more time, just to be able to compare it to Ravenscroft.

 

That took about three minutes.

 

OK. Surprise. There is absolutely no comparison.

 

What took you so long, Dana?

 

[Ashville.Guru]

Personus considers the Firebox a legacy product and states that the drivers are incompatible in Windows 8.1. KLONK

 

Bummer, huh?

Bummer, indeed. Sorry, Tom, I mixed up the FireBox with the FireStudio. So I don't know if the latest driver updates would be available. Still, I would make sure I'm running the latest software+driver from the downloads page, in compatibility mode. This post on the Presonus forum says it works. on Win 8.

 

So, I'm trying to decide how to move forward. All I need is a MIDI to USB interface cable like this one made by Roland. KLONK

 

Is there any reason not to consider that interface?

That's exactly what I'm using, and it's an excellent one. However, I don't see why you'd need it. It's a MIDI-only device, whereas your FireBox is both audio and MIDI, so the Roland Um-One isn't quite a replacement. MIDI latency is rarely ever the issue, so the Um-One may not make any difference. And just to confirm - you're using the audio outs from the FireBox, right?

 

Even though it's a legacy product, the performance might be reasonably good. The panning test would confirm this.

 

- Guru