Vintage Vibe

[Dave Ferris]

I've played them a couple years in a row at NAMM now. Build quality is first rate.

 

The action was good, but to me, not being a huge EP aficionado, I've always have a problem on almost all eps (unless they've been tweaked to the nines) being not the most responsive action, at least for the way I play and what I do. YMMV there.

 

I think for someone who's a funkmeister and is looking for that *Herbie* or *Chick* thing for RnB, Funk, Latin/Funk-Fusion, this might not be the first choice. Of course in the din of NAMM it's never conclusive to tell for sure how it would work using it in the trenches, digging in with the rhythm section on a real world gig.

 

My thoughts were it would be better for the type of guy that plays Wurli and rhodes in a pop/rock/blues/country song or setting where you are mainly comping, playing a nice supporting type style and using the EP to capture a vibe...perhaps a vintage vibe.. It came across as not really the instrument that really speaks for one note solos.

 

On the other hand, I could get one on a gig and in the right situation be pleasantly surprised. Even in the din of Namm you could tell it had a really nice tone to it.

[Nillerbabs]

think for someone who's a funkmeister and is looking for that *Herbie* or *Chick* thing for RnB, Funk, Latin/Funk-Fusion, this might not be the first choice. Of course in the din of NAMM it's never conclusive to tell for sure how it would work using it in the trenches, digging in with the rhythm section on a real world gig.

 

My thoughts were it would be better for the type of guy that plays Wurli and rhodes in a pop/rock/blues/country song or setting where you are mainly comping, playing a nice supporting type style and using the EP to capture a vibe...perhaps a vintage vibe.. It came across as not really the instrument that really speaks for one note solos.

 

Care to elaborate on your experience in this regard? I intend to get one primarily for exposed solistic use in i.e. a jazz trio setting.

[Dave Ferris]

I though I did a pretty decent job of describing my thoughts-at least on the models that I played. Like I posted, I don't have any real world *experience* with the VV. Also like I said, live through a cool sound system like I have, in a band setting, outside the din of Namm, I could have a totally different impression of it. But sorry that's all I have at this time.

 

Someone posted somewhere, they thought it was more a mix of a Wurli and Rhodes rather then a pure suitcase type rhodes, ala Herbie. I think that's another good way of describing it.

 

I'm certainly not the definitive word on this, as usual-ymmv. Best to play it yourself, if possible and draw your own conclusions. I guess being over in Denmark (?) that's easier said then done. But I know I wouldn't buy something that pricey without laying my hands on it for some time.

 

Good luck with it. I think they are very cool instruments.

[hoggernick]

I've got a 73 key one, had it about two months now. I'd been schlepping a suitcase 88 around for a decade, and been through a ton of synths/samplers trying to find a lightweight substitute. No synth ever quite cut it, including NE3, Korg SV1, never tried Kronos, but I don't imagine it would have done it either. There's just something special about playing a real instrument that I couldn't replace with plastic. The Scarbee samples were very good, and had the sound, but alas it just never seemed the same playing.

 

The VV is 100% tine EP. Nothing wurli about it other than the base of the EP and its chrome legs. They use tines from the Torrington tine machine that previously made the original tines back in the 70s. They clearly have hotrodded the EP. It's got a hot preamp in it, I suspect they may have applied the bump mod to the hammers, and that may be why it can get such an obnoxious bark (which I like).

 

They clearly cut out every bit of wood that wasn't necessary. When comparing it to my suitcase 88, I can see that there are huge swaths of wood missing. The frame is essentially the same though, and the supports all appear to be basically the same. It voices exactly the same, though I haven't messed with the voicing. It arrived with every note consistently voiced and perfectly tuned. It has bounced around in my truckbed a lot between home and gigs (I have a camper shell), and not a single note is out of tune so far. I'm getting pretty comfortable with its durability, though the standard is pretty high considering my suitcase is almost 40 years old and still stays in tune just fine no matter how much I knock it around.

 

It is a very hot sound. I can turn the treble down on its preamp and it definitely gets dark, but not quite like the suitcase. The suitcase tines and pickups are so old though, maybe that contributes to its darkness. The VV timbre is definitely different from the suitcase. It kinda has its own sound, though still tines. I'm sure it could be voiced to be completely different.

 

Now that I think about it, I guess its bark might be a little comparable to a wurli's bark. It's very bright when you lay into it. For quiet solo work you have to take it very easy if you just want that rhodes solo sound, otherwise it barks too much. I primarily play in a 70s/80s dance/funk cover band and the VV is very well suited for the music.

 

I couldn't bear the thought of spending that much money and not having MIDI, so I researched MIDI conversion kits for acoustic pianos and decided that the PNOScan from MIDI9 was the way to go. I contacted MIDI9 to find out if their conversion kits were compatible with Rhodes, and they had installed a few in Rhodes, so I decided to go for it. I was going to install it myself if VV didn't care to mess with it. VV were very accommodating though, got the kit from MIDI9, installed it as they were building the EP, and it has worked flawlessly. It has optical sensors, so nothing can affect the EP's action. The sensors work very accurately, but they can't keep up with super fast playing, like Billy Joel's Prelude/Angry Young Man. It tracks just fine for everything I do, but I figured I'd mention that in case anyone was wondering if it was spot-on perfect MIDI sensoring.

 

The VV guys are very cool, and they're very serious about their EPs. I suspect they're (as a company) as serious as any company has ever been about building a quality instrument.

 

About servicing, I think anyone that can service a Rhodes could probably service a VV.

[Joe Muscara]

I can't see how to embed Vimeo videos, so here's a link to it . It sounds very cool if you ask me!

[zoooombiex]

I can't see how to embed Vimeo videos, so here's a link to it . It sounds very cool if you ask me!

 

Nice. They have a second video up too.

 

These are getting really tempting...

 

It's interesting though -- in the interview someone posted above, Chris talks about how they intended the 64 to be the main model (and that they think it sounds better than the 73) but it hasn't caught on as much as they expected, and the 73 seems more popular.

 

I would guess that's largely due to the pricing. They aren't exactly cheap instruments and one the main selling points of the whole line is the weight. But this is how the pricing stacks up to weight & keys:

 

44-note: 35 lbs for $2550

64-note: 53 lbs for $3450

73-note: 60 lbs for $3850

 

So you have a big jump in price from the 44 to the 64. But then once you get to the 64, the 73 is only $400 more and 7 extra pounds. If you are in the market to spend $3450 on an EP, the extra $400 is probably not a big deal. And even if you are focused on the weight it's only 7 lbs more.

 

So the price points right now are really blurred. If they want to sell more 64s they need to drop it down a few hundred to carve out separate markets for those two products. Maybe start the 64-notes closer to $3000. That would put it right between the prices of the 44-key model and the 73-key (even if that means the price increments are not directly proportional to the number of keys).

 

Seeing as the 73-key is a traditional size board there will always be a market for people who want that and will pay extra for it. And perhaps to further justify the price difference between the 73 and a lower-priced 64 model they could make a sparkle top upgrade a base-price feature on the 73.

 

I think something like that would really help distinguish the products. People who want a relatively full-sized, lightweight board but who don't need the extra 9 keys or sparkle-top will gravitate to the 64. People who want the full-size board can justify the added expense by the extra keys, modest weight increase, and sparkle-top option.

 

At least, that's my $.02. I've been vacillating on getting one of these ever since they came out. I keep thinking the 64 note is all I'd need and is nice and light, but then if I'm going to lay out that much $, why not jump to the 73? but at that point I say my current Rhodes 54 is doing a good job so why spend $3850 on a new board? Then I drop the whole thing for a while until it starts all over...

[Dave Ferris]

They are good videos. My initial impressions still hold though after listening to this. I think they are better suited to a rock player, like this fellow here, then a jazz player.

 

But evidently Jon Regen disagrees in his review in Keyboard this month.

 

The bottom line is the Rhodes has to be your major voice and musical identity for you take the plunge with one of these.

[Ken Beaumont]

The bottom line is the Rhodes has to be your major voice and musical identity for you take the plunge with one of these.

 

+1000 at those prices, you really have be inspired by the Rhodes sound!

 

I love the sound but wouldn't want to be married to it, I would rather sonically sleep around

[Nillerbabs]

Yea, Dave, I'm with you about the jazz thing... I'm really thinking about buying one of these, but I won't really think about it until I have heard it excel in a jazz setting. I asked them about it, but even though some say that their customer service is virtually second to none, a couple of my e-mails are still left without response. Here's to hoping that this won't get neglected!

[Rusty Mike]

I would imagine they could voice it to your liking. I agree, though, that the settings I've heard are too 'rock' and not enough 'jazz'. My preference is toward a darker sound as well. A flatter top would be nice too.

 

I played it at the past NAMM. Felt better than any Rhodes I ever played, including the one I owned in the 70's and 80's.

 

I should really take a trip there, since it's within 45 minutes of my house.

[Nillerbabs]

A flatter top, yes, and a notestand. The omission thereof in particular seems peculiar to me, now that they went with a Wurlitzer design in the first place.

[Delaware Dave]

Sounds great but too much dinero ...

[Dana.]

Sounds great but too much dinero ...

I'd drop $4K on this before a Nord Stage2...

[Dave Ferris]

If someone REALLY felt it was the right thing for them, I don't think it's too much dough in the large scheme of things.

 

Neils, I guess there's no distributor over there were you can check one out ? It would be a drag to order one, use it on a few gigs and think, man this isn't what I was hoping for...

 

You could probably sell it but questionable if you'd get all your money back. Do they have a trial period where at least you'd just be out shipping back ? Although I could see them not being amenable to that kind of arrangement overseas.

 

I don't know, it's a tough one if you can't spend some hands on time with it before..

[Nillerbabs]

I don't know, it's a tough one if you can't spend some hands on time with it before..

 

Exactly! Spending that much money sight unseen is just reckless. I emailed the service centers in Germany and Holland, the latter of which at some point actually listed the piano as for sale on their website. They suggested that I order directly - which is just not going to happen. My hope is that they will be present at the next Musikmesse. In any case, I would by far prefer purchasing in Europe; not only does it relieve the purchase anxiety, but it also cuts the shipping and the ridiculous taxes that would bump the price to close to double.

 

Thinking about it, I probably should have taken the time to pop by their workshop when I was in New York earlier this year. Didn't really think of it at the time, and honestly, though it seems daft now, when hanging in NY with good friends the first idea to pop into my head would never be to tear a day off my calendar for a lone trip to Jersey...

[Analogaddict]

I really hope they'll appear in europe... I'm definately interested too, but have no trip to the US scheduled...

[Dana.]

Didn't really think of it at the time, and honestly, though it seems daft now, when hanging in NY with good friends the first idea to pop into my head would never be to tear a day off my calendar for a lone trip to Jersey...

[Delaware Dave]

Sounds great but too much dinero ...

I'd drop $4K on this before a Nord Stage2...

I wouldn't drop $4K on either keyboard

[funkphingerz88]

Any more user reports? Does the midi have aftertouch?

Anyone managed to voice a vv for jazzier tones?

[funkphingerz88]

bump!

[funkphingerz88]

bump again. the lack of videos showing the VV's jazz and funk side is the reason im not jumping AND the fact i priced up the 73 midi with the Uk distributor and it came in at £5000. Thats WAY overpriced. Im sorry, not even a hand built tine EP is worth that especially one that im yet to hear in the style i need it for. Im going to try one out at the distributor anyway but luckily i own an new MK7 Rhodes which ive got sounding incredible and im going to strip all the extraneous stuff out of that to get it down to a similar 60lbs ish weight. Not hard to do with a saw, some aluminium and a big hole cutter mounted to my drill. Watch this space. Not that i wouldnt love a VV and congrats to them for having the guts to do it...hopefully theyre happy with their high price low sales number philosophy. BTW i asked the guys (top dudes) at VV about buying just a cut down harp assembly to transplant into my Mk7 but turns out the tone bars in the bass end are shorter than on a Rhodes and thus the hammers would hit the tines in the wrong place so anyone thinking about doing this its not possible. Ill report back once ive tried one.

[Phil Aiken]

Ressurecting this thread rather than start a new one. Am strongly considering getting a 64 and would love to hear from any owners, with the benefit of whatever hindsight you now have.

 

Also - they do now have a less expensive version, the "classic". The differences are not entirely clear on the website, so I have written them. Has anyone played one of these?

[Doerfler]

Has anyone played one of these?

 

this guy is pretty good

 

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/912/7SRAmV.jpg

[Outkaster]

Hi top tier is so high, that would get tiring ergonomically speaking.

[Doerfler]

 

Also - they do now have a less expensive version, the "classic". The differences are not entirely clear on the website, so I have written them.

 

CUSTOM PIANOS

 

check out this page if you haven't already. The "Deluxe" versions are 25% more than the "Classic" versions, but are hand made from start to finish. Must be some sort of production line stuff going on with the "Classic" version. Might not be able to find out any more than that. As I say every time VV comes up, call Chris Carroll directly. He wants your business. Sometimes you get better luck calling than writing. That has been my experience, anyway.

[Doerfler]

Hi top tier is so high, that would get tiring ergonomically speaking.

 

agreed. I'm actually going to move my E7 from the top of my A100 soon as I have the time for exactly the same reason.

It's a nice pic though. huh?

[dsetto]

I played one at NAMM several years ago, and from my rhodes-inexperienced seat, I dug it. Felt & sounded real. I'm hoping the best for Vintage Vibe.

 

[Phil Aiken]

Heard from Chris. The Classic has a different lid, but the main difference is the amount of time they spend voicing and setting up.

 

The thing that appeals to me sound wise is the Wurlyish bite in some of the videos. If that could be accentuated in set up that could sway me to the Deluxe.And then there is the active vs. passive decision.

 

I think I need to road trip to Jersey and play some.

[zoooombiex]

Nice to see the classic finally come out. Curious if the top of the new pianos is strong enough to hold another board. I read some comments that the first one would fold in and hit the tines; and/or that it was too curved to allow all four feet of another board to touch. Funny that the original rhodes had the same issue.

[Phil Aiken]

The new lid SEEMS flatter in the pictures. Those sparkle tops look sweet, though.