NUMA Organ Update

[HammondDave]

 

Maybe it´s only your´s,- unfortunately.

 

A.C.

 

Yeah, his and Joey D's.... Don't think so.

[Al Coda]

 

Maybe it´s only your´s,- unfortunately.

 

A.C.

 

Yeah, his and Joey D's.... Don't think so.

 

You´re also over @clonewheel and read the latest posts.

It seems to be right it´s not only his, but it isn´t sure it´s the engine-software.

It might be the pitch wheel mechanism.

 

More interesting for me was the "long post"

http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/CloneWheel/message/60333

 

and this

 

http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/CloneWheel/message/60287

 

He does not have it with his NUMA, so not every one has the issue.

 

And this ...

http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/CloneWheel/message/60303

 

Like me in a former post, Elvio Privati suspects the pitch wheel too.

 

And at last this from the original poster who found the issue.

http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/CloneWheel/message/60323

 

It´s his organ and it´s in the vid,- later the issue was less recognizable if at all (his words) ... but it has to be adressed.

 

I think, some buyers of the very 1st production run might have the issue but only 2 organs have it for sure, his and the one in the video which is a early model.

 

The organ of Thomas, that´s the german user I mentioned in the other thread and who is the poster of the long post, has it not.

And his is the 1st one available in germany,- it was pre-ordered.

 

Let´s wait for NAMM, it´s all nitpicking IMO.

This toy seems to have much more advantages than issues.

 

I know countless products which came out during the last years being peppered w/ issues and disadvantages, even the ones from the big 5.

 

A.C.

 

 

[niacin]

It will be a hardware issue. I had the same problem with my VMK-61+. I didn't need the mod stick so I physically removed it, but yes they need to fix/replace it on the Numa with something more stable.

 

[KeyMoe]

Yes, to get a good chorus vibrato sound it is best to bypass the leslie sim on the VK8m - that means do not use brake to try to achieve it. It does not come stock by the way. You have to program it with a sysex command.

.

 

Would you share the sysex command and how to accomplish bypassing the sim?

[LX88]

I did not do the leslie sim bypass on my VK-8m . It had already been done when I purchased the unit used. There is a software download from a company called Soundside de. that sells it for 40 dollars... I think they are in Germany or something.

 

It looks like you have the VK-8 already, how do you like that? I would have bought it but the keys seem to trigger on the upstroke. It does have a bypass switch. I liked a lot about it- great key feel. To me the Roland 8 series has the best chorus vibrato, which is a must have.

[Al Coda]

I did not do the leslie sim bypass on my VK-8m . It had already been done when I purchased the unit used. There is a software download from a company called Soundside de. that sells it for 40 dollars... I think they are in Germany or something.

 

It looks like you have the VK-8 already, how do you like that? I would have bought it but the keys seem to trigger on the upstroke. It does have a bypass switch. I liked a lot about it- great key feel. To me the Roland 8 series has the best chorus vibrato, which is a must have.

 

It´s here

http://www.soundside.de/shop/vk8upgradepack.htm

 

There are 2 soundclips down on the site

 

A.C.

[niacin]

I also had an SL760 with a mod wheel that kept triggering. Turned out the plastic wheel had been poorly cut and the tech just shaved it off so that it sat better in the slot and it worked fine. I'd reckon if you buy a Numa and it's fine it will stay fine. If it's going to have issues they will be there from day one, pop the hood and check out the hardware, Fatar has long had QC problems on this front. I doubt it has anything to do with software.

 

 

It will be a hardware issue. I had the same problem with my VMK-61+. I didn't need the mod stick so I physically removed it, but yes they need to fix/replace it on the Numa with something more stable.

[LX88]

As far as Roland organs go, I think that A LOT of people missed it with the VK8m. Very few people ever got as far as hearing it with the leslie sim bypassed. Plus, you really have to tweak the percussion to get it to blend right.

 

To me the "Vintage 1" amp setting,with the leslie bypass gives a pretty authentic chorus vibrato sound for jazz. Not many people have actually heard it because it doesn't come stock.

 

I am going to check out the NUMA but it is going to have to be pretty good for me to switch. I like it that the Numa has it all in one package. I have tried the other commercially available clones and they don't come close( to me) as far as the chorus vibrato jazz thing. My leslie sim is sounding pretty good too.

 

The VK8m is probably my favorite piece of midi gear I have ever owned. I have a great '62 B-3 and 122, so I know what it should sound like....

 

But I am looking forward to hearing the Numa.

 

[Mitch Towne]

Well, after a weekend with two gigs and some serious time spent in the basement, I decided to return the Numa and stick with my Electro 3 / Ventilator combination for the time being. That is not to say that the Numa isn't a fantastic instrument - it is. What my decision came down to was whether or not it was a $2,000 leap forward in sound and playability from what I currently have. I just don't think so, at least for me.

 

All weekend, I wasn't able to get a combo of the Numa and the Vent that I liked. In fact, on the gig Saturday, I mostly used the internal sim which acquitted itself very nicely in a live situation. However, my main issue was that I just couldn't get that nice, compressed top octave burn that I get from the Nord and Vent. In the lower ranges, the Numa is incredible. I like the action of the Numa better than that of the E3 even after I had the action of the E3 changed. The Numa plays great. I was reminded that I do miss physical drawbars and presets. However, I have decided to play the hand I already had for a while. I have recently tweaked the E3 to sound even better than I had it sounding, so I am going to stick with that for a while.

 

Believe me...if I still had my XK-3, I would drop it for the Numa in a heartbeat. To my ears, the Numa is a big leap forward from that. It just wasn't $2k forward from the Electro.

 

 

Mitch

 

[AnotherScott]

It just wasn't $2k forward from the Electro.

 

Well, since you could probably sell the E3 and the Vent for at least $1700, it would only have to be $300 better... ;-)

[LX88]

Everybody has to have what works for them. My guess is that the NUMA may be a bit more suited toward a jazz sound, though I am not sure what music you play.

 

I have only had my hands on a Ventillator one time, and it did not make me want to get one. It was hooked to an XK3c. Who knows what that was about...there were any number of things that might have been off.The speakers were Mackies... that may have been it.

 

These instruments are only the palette that the painter paints with. In them, we either find or don't find what we are looking for. I have taken all kinds of crap because I like the Roland stuff. There isn't a lot of stuff about it that makes me think I need to upgrade....except my playing!

 

The Stratocaster was just a medium range guitar until Hendrix got a hold of one. At the time, many players played Gibsons. Hendrix showed a new way with that tool. It's really about what we create, not about our shopping chops.

 

Today ... be thankful for what you got.

[vanderSchoot]

Hi there,

 

I am fresh to this wonderful board and from Holland.

So forgive my strange and bad grammar at times.

 

I am the happy owner of a Numa organ and a Nord electro 3+ventilator.

Both are really good but also very different.

Like many of you posted the Numa is suited best for jazz.

A warm, thick sound and wonderful interaction of the chorus and internal Leslie simm.

However just like Mitch Towne describes, the ventilator works better with the electro.

Somehow I wonder if Guido used an electro 3 or C1 to develop his ventilator.

For a cover band rock/pop/funk/soul this combi delivers big time.

I played with a rock cover band last week and doing Uriah Heep, Deep purple, Manfred man... the electro/vent was amazingly cutting trough the sound wall produced by two heavily distorted guitars. A beautiful compressed punchy high without becoming shrill or cold.

Furthermore the electro is even more a living instrument than the Numa.

The basic tone is fuller/better on the Numa even with the ventilator connected to the electro.

I went over and over to compare every possible drawbar setting.

I don't like the Numa's pre-amp overdrive, it falls severely short compared to the overall 122/147 overdrive sound of the ventilator.

 

When I play...., I like the way the Nord behaves better than the Numa.Again the Numa sounds thick, warm and expensive, but the Nord + vent. is alive.

All the little quirks, drawbar cross talk superior!! Leakage, trigger point etc.makes it just a little more organic.

 

Really hope that makes sense.

Of course a very subjective opinion, but it intrigued me so much that I had to write it.

 

Best regards to you all

[LX88]

I have always had the sense that the NUMA IS geared toward jazz. It says "Joey De Francesco" right on it. You often don't hear Joey going for overdrive, upper octave scream and a lot of the things that people say they want the Ventillator for.

 

In the NUMA video Joey puts the organ through his jazz settings and it all comes off very well. The thing is ,a lot of clones

(not saying which here) could not do a jazz recording and pull it off. Joey uses the Jimmy Smith/ chorus vibrato thing A LOT, as does Tony Monaco and many others.

 

If you listen to some of the live clips of Joey on the NUMA, he rarely uses the leslie at all, and I have not heard him use overdrive either.

 

But the common jazz settings? That is where some of the clones have fallen short. I can't recall anyone using an Electro to make a jazz recording. I can't even think of many who have used a C2. Not putting them down, but if you play Uriah Heep, Purple and that kind of thing the Nord/ Vent probably would work best FOR YOU.

 

I have heard good results in rock and blues with all the major clones - Hammond , Nord, Korg, Voce and Roland. A Ventilltor DOES have good overdrive. I was kind of curious how the NUMA fared in that department.

 

In less than a year the Ventillator has made many players leave their leslies home. There is very little discussion of expensive tube preamps and Frankenleslies anymore.

 

For rock playing I see no good reason for not using some of the current clones that you can get at bargain prices used these days. Using them for jazz would be a totally different thing.

 

 

 

 

[vanderSchoot]

If you listen to some of the live clips of Joey on the NUMA, he rarely uses the leslie at all, and I have not heard him use overdrive either.

Do you mean the brake/stopped rotor position? Because that sounds different than the Leslie off.

In jazz they use mainly stopped rotor (and C3 chorus) to have a greater impact when going to fast.

 

I do agree with you, the Numa has a fantastic jazz tone.

I even dare to say it is better than all current Hammond clones.

My brother has a new B3 with 122 BX...so I will compare in the near future.

 

[Gary75]

What delivers a rock tone? An overdriven Leslie (aside from the non standard Emerson like configs). Surely it all comes to nothing if the groundwork (the raw organ tone modelled) is lacking. I don't think the KeyB/Numa has a great simulated overdrive, but it's raw tone is unrivalled IMO. I appreciate there are many who want all tones available in one board and don't want to use external gear. My aim is to have the best unprocessed raw sound of the organ and add if needs be the external effect, weather it be Leslie, preamp, whatever.

 

I'm a firm believer in the phrase 'you can't polish a turd'

[vanderSchoot]

I agree with you B3boy about searching for the best possible raw tone.

But just like Mitch Towne I am not totally satisfied with the ventilator connected to the Numa.

I was expecting the same upgrade that the electro experiences through the ventilator.

 

And I didn't mean rock crunch per see.

Like I said it seems best suited for the electro 3 and c1/c2.

I wonder what the opinion is of the xk3c owners.

I heard B3er and he said that the internal simm of the xk3c was tweakable almost as accurate as the ventilator.

 

I want to believe him of course, despite the fact that I tried the xk3c dozens of times (really wanted to like it as all in one package).

 

So again the Numa has the best tone of all the clones I know. (sitting right next to me as I write).

But I really wanted to sell the electro3 and buy the Nord piano as a replacement.Now I will keep both and enjoy how they comp-lement eachother.

It is very hard to explain but even with 888 000 000 chorus C3, soft percussion and slow leslie (vent.)it produces a fantastic organ sound. Maybe not for purists but for me very inspiring and different.

 

B.T.W the Nord is able to add percussion to the 9the drawbar which the Numa can't.

 

[LX88]

No brake. Leslie off . That is how Joey D. is doing most of his playing on the NUMA/ Key B demos.

 

Ditto Brian Auger.

 

I agree with B3 boy. The best basic sound comes first and after that everything else will follow.

 

Until the NUMA has come along, my pick was -

 

Roland VK8m. Vintage 1 amp setting, leslie sim OFF. Percussion Volume 1/2 or 1 on a scale of FIFTEEN third harmonic. I don't like loud percussion.

 

How many of you have actually heard this??

[Mitch Towne]

It sounds like Vanderschoot and I had the same experience. It is a strange thing to try to describe - the Numa does have an added level of realism which is why I thought, "Oh...Numa plus Vent should be a no brainer." But it wasn't. There is something about the way the Vent rounds out the E3 tone to make it sound like some of my favorite albums that I wasn't able to get from the Numa + Vent, especially in the upper octave. Like Vanders, I was ready to sell my E3 if the Numa really came through...but it just wasn't there for me.

 

I don't totally agree with LX88 when it comes to his comments on Joey D's sound. It's not that Joey uses a balls to the wall overdrive sound like Emerson...but the tube drive of the Leslie is definitely part of his sound and I find that the Vent really delivers on that. In fact, I get it more from the Vent than I did from my real 147.

[LX88]

Hmmm...I haven't heard Joey use tube drive on any of the Numa demo clips. It is pretty light if it is there. The other Italian guy did a bit , and the Numa sounded pretty good with light overdrive , chorale and some different settings than Joey uses.

 

I am not some kind of jazz purist by the way. I like what is happening with the Ventilator and all of the stuff that is out , and it all has its place.

 

And, it is interesting to hear Joey playing even a single manual Numa and not having to compromise very much.I would bet that he - and a lot of others- like not having to be bothered with traveling with additional pieces of outboard gear, even if it is only a leslie sim.

 

But for some others, it is no big deal to add something like the Ventilator if it helps them get their ideal sound.

 

 

[vanderSchoot]

No brake. Leslie off . That is how Joey D. is doing most of his playing on the NUMA/ Key B demos.

Sorry I really don't want to be nitpicking.

But look at the red light on the right side of the leslie modulation wheel (the second from left). When it is red the leslie is ON. In this case a stopped rotor sound.

 

[LX88]

Oops.... Busted. Yes Joey does demo the leslie sim on the official Numa clip.

 

But when he is playing live, or at least whatever you would call the Numa demos he did at the music conventions in Europe he uses it sparingly.

[LX88]

Oops.... Busted. Yes Joey does demo the leslie sim on the official Numa clip.

 

But when he is playing live, or at least whatever you would call the Numa demos he did at the music conventions in Europe he uses it sparingly.