NUMA Organ Update

[AnotherScott]

As for comparing the two, the obvious advantages of the Numa are the extra octave of keys and the lower weight.

 

No,- IMO the better leslie sim is the main advantage over the XK-1.

Maybe C/V is also better and I´m believe "pre amp" overdrive is.

I just meant the obvious advantages "on paper." The sonic advantages are something I'll reserve judgment on until I play one. :-)

Though I will point out that an XK1 + Ventilator is about the same price as a Numa organ (in the U.S.), so comparing $2,000 configuration to $2,000 configuration, it is possible that any leslie sim advantage may be negated.

[LX88]

A question was raised regarding whether the NUMA has significant enough improvements to justify "upgrading" from some of the current crop of commercially available clones.

 

If it is anything like the Key B that I have heard , here are some reasons to upgrade.

 

1. Chorus Vibrato - if you don't really use it , there is not much reason to upgrade. However - if you want to have an organ sound that would pass in a recording situation - particularly for jazz, some ( most) of the current crop will not pass the chorus vibrato test.

 

2. Leslie simulation. The Key B I heard had a leslie sim that would also record well. Most of the current crop will not.

 

3. Key Click - There are clones out there where you cannot get rid of the simulated key click. On one I heard recently, the click was behind the tone time wise. It would drive me nuts through phones or on a direct in recording. I don't recall if the click on the Key B I heard was adjustable.

 

4. Keyboard feel. We are going to have to see how Studiologic did on this. I have played popular clones that are either too heavy or too light in the action department. I am hoping for good things from the Italians in this regard.

 

My hope is that the NUMA has addressed some of those issues.

From what I heard from the Key B, for the most part they did. That is why I am so interested in this.

 

 

 

[Al Coda]

A question was raised regarding whether the NUMA has significant enough improvements to justify "upgrading" from some of the current crop of commercially available clones.

 

If it is anything like the Key B that I have heard , here are some reasons to upgrade.

 

1. Chorus Vibrato - if you don't really use it , there is not much reason to upgrade. However - if you want to have an organ sound that would pass in a recording situation - particularly for jazz, some ( most) of the current crop will not pass the chorus vibrato test.

 

2. Leslie simulation. The Key B I heard had a leslie sim that would also record well. Most of the current crop will not.

 

3. Key Click - There are clones out there where you cannot get rid of the simulated key click. On one I heard recently, the click was behind the tone time wise. It would drive me nuts through phones or on a direct in recording. I don't recall if the click on the Key B I heard was adjustable.

 

4. Keyboard feel. We are going to have to see how Studiologic did on this. I have played popular clones that are either too heavy or too light in the action department. I am hoping for good things from the Italians in this regard.

 

My hope is that the NUMA has addressed some of those issues.

From what I heard from the Key B, for the most part they did. That is why I am so interested in this.

 

Read here,-

http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/CloneWheel/message/60154

According to the poster it sounds like a 1958 B3 incl. that C/V sound, which seems to be the same or comparable to the info here saying it´s a 1959 C3.

http://www.musicworldonline.co.uk/keyborgan//

 

Less tweakable tan the other clones actually.

Comments on your points 2.), 3.), 4.) are all positive.

So,- like it or not.

Wait until you have the chance to check it out and make a decision.

 

A.C.

[AnotherScott]

Read here,-

http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/CloneWheel/message/60154

According to the poster it sounds like a 1958 B3 incl. that C/V sound, which seems to be the same or comparable to the info here saying it´s a 1959 C3.

http://www.musicworldonline.co.uk/keyborgan//

 

Less tweakable tan the other clones actually.

Interesting post there.

 

So it looks like, perhaps, the Numa may come closer to that era B3/C3 than any other clone, but at the expense of not being able to make it sound more like models from other eras, compared to more tweakable models. As I mentioned, I actually prefer the sound of older Hammonds, but I would not be surprised if the model they are focussing on is closer to what most people consider ideal.

[Al Coda]

Interesting post there.

 

So it looks like, perhaps, the Numa may come closer to that era B3/C3 than any other clone, but at the expense of not being able to make it sound more like models from other eras, compared to more tweakable models.

 

That´s the situation NOW.

We all know, the KeyB engine itself is able to load different organ models and these models already exist for the original KeyB organs,- and one of these models is Brian Augers newer Mylar capacitor B3 organ which probably comes w/ a slight different Chorus/Vibrato model and a more "modern" sound.

It´s pure speculation, but there´s hope these different models might be available for the NUMA too later, maybe at a fee or such.

We´ll know after NAMM.

 

As I mentioned, I actually prefer the sound of older Hammonds, but I would not be surprised if the model they are focussing on is closer to what most people consider ideal.

 

What´s ideal or not and for whom is hard to tell, matter of taste and depending on style of music to perform IMO.

Numa Organ is now available in germany and the very 1st positive review I read was from a german user who had all the clones and has the real thing to compare.

The post @yahoo is from another user who seems to have the same situation owning several clones in the past.

It´s interesting both users tell nearly the same story and there´s no negative review existing up to now even these organs sell meanwhile.

Can be we have a winner instrument here and at a relatively low price (for the europaens).

If I hadn´t to pay taxes this month, I had placed an order @Thomann already just to look how it really is,- there´s a money back guarantee.

I looked for the shops in my town yesterday, but unfortunately they don´t have it in stock, maybe because they are used to sell Roland, Hammond-Suzuki and Nord.

Can be, the margin for dealers is not that good w/ a niche product like KeyB and Numa.

 

A.C.

[WheelHead]

I´d prefer a dual manual organ and the only one affordable would be a Nord C2

A.C.

 

This would probably work well with the Numa single manual.

 

http://www.bgmi.it/?a=showproduct&b=5

 

W

[Al Coda]

This would probably work well with the Numa single manual.

 

http://www.bgmi.it/?a=showproduct&b=5

 

W

 

Thank you, bookmarked !

Tech wise, it will work and there´s another advantage,- it has a MIDI IN to connect a pedal or other MIDI gear if needed.

 

Unfortunately, no price and it´s not listed at the german distributor.

 

A.C.

[AnotherScott]

Ventura's lower manual would probably work as well...

 

http://venturakeyboards.wordpress.com/2010/11/14/tx-5-lm-works-with-korg-cx3/

 

scroll down that page for a pic. I don't know if they're available where you are... I'm not even sure they're available here. But possibly something to keep an eye out for.

[To B3]

I´d prefer a dual manual organ and the only one affordable would be a Nord C2

A.C.

 

This would probably work well with the Numa single manual.

 

http://www.bgmi.it/?a=showproduct&b=5

 

W

 

When i click on the link, it appears as dangerous, virus warning, etc. can you post a picture of the product??

[mate stubb]

I´d prefer a dual manual organ and the only one affordable would be a Nord C2

A.C.

 

This would probably work well with the Numa single manual.

 

http://www.bgmi.it/?a=showproduct&b=5

 

W

 

When i click on the link, it appears as dangerous, virus warning, etc. can you post a picture of the product??

http://www.bgmi.it/gallery/products/MC-1%2002scont.jpg

 

[To B3]

Thanks!

 

Any specs on the site? weight, specailly...

[Al Coda]

Thanks!

 

Any specs on the site? weight, specailly...

 

HAMICHORD M-C1 features:

 

* Single Manual keyboard midi controller with 61-note 5 octave C - C waterfall keys with first contact attack.

 

HAMICHORD M-C1 rear connections

 

* Midi out and Midi in.

* Power supply in.

 

HAMICHORD M-C1 Specifications

 

* Finishes: Black Road, suitcase style.

* Dimensions: Length 112,50 cm x Depth 50 cm x Height 12 cm

 

dimensions as above in inches:

44.29134 x 19.68504 x 4.72441

 

* Weight : 10 Kg / lbs 22.04586

 

HAMICHORD M-C1 Contains

 

* AC adapter ( European)

* Manual

 

AC walwart doesn´t impress me ... :-(

 

A.C.

 

 

[Al Coda]

 

When i click on the link, it appears as dangerous, virus warning, etc. can you post a picture of the product??

 

Not here ...

 

A.C.

[To B3]

Thanx! Here it continues to appear the warning message.

[Al Coda]

Ventura's lower manual would probably work as well...

 

http://venturakeyboards.wordpress.com/2010/11/14/tx-5-lm-works-with-korg-cx3/

 

scroll down that page for a pic. I don't know if they're available where you are... I'm not even sure they're available here. But possibly something to keep an eye out for.

 

No specs of dimensions and weight,- no Ventura dealer here.

 

I think, every MIDI organ keybed works as a lower manual and the cheapest might be a Doepfer d3m black case (but not inverted black keys) for EUR 420.-,- or silver case EUR 415.- incl. PSU.

http://www.doepfer.de/home_e.htm

 

It also offers MIDI switches for banks/presets.

You don´t need these for the NUMA, so you could get the keys of NUMA and Doepfer as close as possible and maybe it´s a idea to mount both into a custom made case pre-wired and find a way to mount a Vent left beneath the Doepfer d3m lower manual which is a ideal position.

 

Vent has hard-bypass, so that offers the options #1 NUMA w/o int. Leslie sim, #2 Numa w/ int. Leslie sim and #2 NUMA w/ Ventilator (Vent hard-bypassed for options #1 + #2).

 

A.C.

 

[WheelHead]

Ventura's lower manual would probably work as well...

 

http://venturakeyboards.wordpress.com/2010/11/14/tx-5-lm-works-with-korg-cx3/

 

scroll down that page for a pic. I don't know if they're available where you are... I'm not even sure they're available here. But possibly something to keep an eye out for.

 

No specs of dimensions and weight,- no Ventura dealer here.

 

I think, every MIDI organ keybed works as a lower manual and the cheapest might be a Doepfer d3m black case (but not inverted black keys) for EUR 420.-,- or silver case EUR 415.- incl. PSU.

http://www.doepfer.de/home_e.htm

 

It also offers MIDI switches for banks/presets.

You don´t need these for the NUMA, so you could get the keys of NUMA and Doepfer as close as possible and maybe it´s a idea to mount both into a custom made case pre-wired and find a way to mount a Vent left beneath the Doepfer d3m lower manual which is a ideal position.

 

 

I believe you need an older D3M. They stopped enabling the fast keying. I owned 2 of them and they are expensive and probably more than the HC lower. The plastic switches on top are actually quite plasticky and never felt right to me that is covered up by the D3 System. I sold mine off as the D3C controller just did not have the appointments, in my opinion, in the correct place. Needed cheekblocks too, imho.

 

W

[Mitch Towne]

Here is a nice bit of info that was just posted on the Clonewheel list regarding the question of a future upgrade that will allow the percussion volume to be changed:

 

-----------------

Hi to everybody,

Studiologic are working on this feature and others more.

They are receiving some feedback from the customers to understand which

improvements to do on the next releases.

I think that after the Namm will be a new release and the customers will

can download it by USB.

Sincerely

Elvio Previati

KeyB Organ

[Gary75]

Well they just updated the KeyB OS to 2.5 so it's good to know it's evolving all the time.

[Al Coda]

Here is a nice bit of info that was just posted on the Clonewheel list regarding the question of a future upgrade that will allow the percussion volume to be changed:

 

-----------------

Hi to everybody,

Studiologic are working on this feature and others more.

They are receiving some feedback from the customers to understand which

improvements to do on the next releases.

I think that after the Namm will be a new release and the customers will

can download it by USB.

Sincerely

Elvio Previati

KeyB Organ

 

Great !

 

Here´s the read about advantages and issues

http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/CloneWheel/message/60169

 

So,- if they fix these and publish as a download, that probably makes it perfect.

 

A.C.

[WheelHead]

This would probably work well with the Numa single manual.

 

http://www.bgmi.it/?a=showproduct&b=5

 

W

 

Thank you, bookmarked !

Tech wise, it will work and there´s another advantage,- it has a MIDI IN to connect a pedal or other MIDI gear if needed.

 

Unfortunately, no price and it´s not listed at the german distributor.

 

A.C.

 

Perhaps with these 3 (and perhaps more) lower manuals available it calls for a NEW product = **contact paper matching the Numa organ**. (kidding)

 

I would guess the HC is cheapest as just a lower manual with midi ports, nothing else.

 

W

[HammondDave]

One of the Clonewheel members just posted a problem with his new NUMA organ. Apparently there is an unintentional momentary pitch-bend that happens when the Leslie sim is on stop. You can hear it in this video of Joey D. at 0:38 and 0:53

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/user/TheClick88#p/u/7/lRXcjf7egvs

 

Sounds like an issue that needs immediate addressing... Hope they correct it soon...

[WheelHead]

One of the Clonewheel members just posted a problem with his new NUMA organ. Apparently there is an unintentional momentary pitch-bend that happens when the Leslie sim is on stop. You can hear it in this video of Joey D. at 0:38 and 0:53

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/user/TheClick88#p/u/7/lRXcjf7egvs

 

Sounds like an issue that needs immediate addressing... Hope they correct it soon...

 

Well if they address it for-the-love-of-God I hope they hire different programmers than their Numa piano firmware updater. Coincidentally tonight I have been *attempting* to update with the Numa firmware software.

 

Tried both Windows and Mac and being pretty tech savvy myself this has been a cryptic task.

 

1. Windows: Finds firmware on PC and will download on-site links to firmware updater/program window/gui but refuses to connect to instrument in the virtual port state with firmware 1.6

 

2. MAC: connects to port on instrument easily but download links in firmware updater-window in program run (download) about 30 percent and fail every time. MAC firmware updater has an 'on PC' window in firmware updater that does *not* find firmware files previously download on computer like Windows version. If anyone has a clue of *where* I can place a previously downloaded firmware file for MAC updater to find it I would appreciate or a folder name it is looking for.

 

Their updaters are a nightmare THOUGH I like the instrument.

 

There is no browse for file in either MAC or Windows firmware updater. If you can't download the firmware directly into the updater software provisions with a failure every time and the program can't find the on-computer file you are screwed.

 

Let's hope the Numa organ has some better updaters for the owners.

 

W

 

**Update to the above** though OT except Numa updates and quality of updates-topic: I was successful with an older Windows laptop. One thing you have to do to connect (FYI for any Numa piano owners) is when you search for a COM port there is *no* 'OK' or 'Save', You have to go back in the COM-Port text field where it placed the found port and create a cursor and then hit 'enter' for it to save-to-program andconnect and also be able to use the Unix executable to update the firmware

 

 

[Al Coda]

One of the Clonewheel members just posted a problem with his new NUMA organ. Apparently there is an unintentional momentary pitch-bend that happens when the Leslie sim is on stop. You can hear it in this video of Joey D. at 0:38 and 0:53

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/user/TheClick88#p/u/7/lRXcjf7egvs

 

Sounds like an issue that needs immediate addressing... Hope they correct it soon...

 

Did you hear it ? Really ?

I watched this vid severaltimes before and didn´t recognize "that pitch bend".

I watched the segment of that video several times now because of the post at clonewheel and now, I wanted to hear it.

 

If it´s really there, it´s so minimal it could be everything.

This keyboard has a pitch wheel affecting the organ and maybe it´s the dead zone of the wheel not calibrated correctly at power up.

I´d wait until more users report this issue or until it´s confirmed.

It´s software working in todays keyboards, so there are bugs in the OS like in plugins and you have that w/ all the keybds around.

 

A.C.

[Al Coda]

 

**Update to the above** though OT except Numa updates and quality of updates-topic: I was successful with an older Windows laptop. One thing you have to do to connect (FYI for any Numa piano owners) is when you search for a COM port there is *no* 'OK' or 'Save', You have to go back in the COM-Port text field where it placed the found port and create a cursor and then hit 'enter' for it to save-to-program andconnect and also be able to use the Unix executable to update the firmware

 

O.k., you´re talking about NUMA Piano ...

COM ports are from the past, if these exist on my mainboards, they´re deavtivated.

 

Did it work over USB or not ?

 

Horrible story b.t.w.

 

A.C.

[WheelHead]

 

**Update to the above** though OT except Numa updates and quality of updates-topic: I was successful with an older Windows laptop. One thing you have to do to connect (FYI for any Numa piano owners) is when you search for a COM port there is *no* 'OK' or 'Save', You have to go back in the COM-Port text field where it placed the found port and create a cursor and then hit 'enter' for it to save-to-program andconnect and also be able to use the Unix executable to update the firmware

 

O.k., you´re talking about NUMA Piano ...

COM ports are from the past, if these exist on my mainboards, they´re deavtivated.

 

Did it work over USB or not ?

 

Horrible story b.t.w.

 

A.C.

 

The instrument creates a *virtual* Com Port that goes over USB, BUT the driver doesn't load in Windows you have to go to the Device Manager and manually load the driver from the updater folder you downloaded.

 

Not working with MAC. MAC connects easily and right away but the program doesn't download OR does not find downloaded firmware files.

 

I finally got it to connect with a Windows laptop like I said finding the COM port BUT (and very important "but") after it writes in text in a field the COM port identity you have to insert your cursor in that field and hit 'enter' otherwise it will not find the port when you escape from that screen and connect. (no information about doing that, BTW, in the software)

 

Yeah it worked and it is now 1.7 and seems to play fine. I use MAC but I had to use an old Windows XP laptop, I did notice the drivers for the virtual com port on the instrument are only XP and Vista, This new firmware was just written I think (1.7).

 

Awful program with misspellings like "start intrument",

 

In fairness, I really like this controller but a frightening thought is that piano/controllers are far more a bigger seller than organ gear with a lot more players but hopefully they will STILL put more resources in the Numa Organ updater software and firmware/update software. . .

 

W

[LX88]

I DID notice the pitch bend previously on the Joey D. video by the way. I had listened to the video several times and I had noticed it when he did the "slide" on that chord at 0 38. I am also now hearing the other bend on the single note ...

 

There were some problems with this sound engine when Diversi used it by the way. A fairly well known Bay Area player bought the single manual Diversi and it crashed SOON after his purchase. And from what I hear Diversi did not back him up.

 

I am going to be a bit more cautious about the NUMA.

 

On a good note, my Roland VK8m module has been rock solid for 5 plus years. I have the leslie bypass mod on mine and it sounds damn good... the leslie sim is good too. I have always liked it because to me it has the best chorus vibrato of any of the "majors". It gives me the effect that my Hammond gives me.

[Mitch Towne]

 

 

Did you hear it ? Really ?

I watched this vid severaltimes before and didn´t recognize "that pitch bend".

I watched the segment of that video several times now because of the post at clonewheel and now, I wanted to hear it.

 

If it´s really there, it´s so minimal it could be everything.

This keyboard has a pitch wheel affecting the organ and maybe it´s the dead zone of the wheel not calibrated correctly at power up.

I´d wait until more users report this issue or until it´s confirmed.

It´s software working in todays keyboards, so there are bugs in the OS like in plugins and you have that w/ all the keybds around.

 

A.C.

 

Hey, Al. I am the guy who posted it at the Clonewheel site. Trust me...it's there. In my original post, I said that I had noticed this strange sound when I first saw the Joey D video. It really stood out to me. I was wondering if it was just a YouTube glitch or something.

 

Unfortunately, it's not. If I hold a chord with everything by-passed (CV, Leslie) it will occasionally make this strange sound. I can hear it really well when I am playing alone. If I get a chance, I will try to record an example of this.

 

I am assuming that it can be remedied with a software update. However, I think it is really amazing that it went out from the factory like this, especially when the bug makes itself apparent in the promo video for the instrument.

 

Mitch

[Al Coda]

I had listened to the video several times and I had noticed it when he did the "slide" on that chord at 0 38. I am also now hearing the other bend on the single note ...

 

I am going to be a bit more cautious about the NUMA.

 

O.k., thanks, I trust your ears.

Can be it´s not very noticable here because I listen thru my onboard audio on my office machine.

 

A.C.

 

 

[Al Coda]

Hey, Al. I am the guy who posted it at the Clonewheel site. Trust me...it's there. In my original post, I said that I had noticed this strange sound when I first saw the Joey D video. It really stood out to me. I was wondering if it was just a YouTube glitch or something.

 

Unfortunately, it's not. If I hold a chord with everything by-passed (CV, Leslie) it will occasionally make this strange sound. I can hear it really well when I am playing alone. If I get a chance, I will try to record an example of this.

 

Well, that´s really bad.

You have it already and are playing w/ it, so you know best.

Any other new issues you recognized except these posted @clonewheel ?

 

I am assuming that it can be remedied with a software update. However, I think it is really amazing that it went out from the factory like this, especially when the bug makes itself apparent in the promo video for the instrument.

 

Yes,- it´s also surprising no german user reported any of the little issues I´ve read @clonewheel.

Seems most buyers don´t test their new instruments in depth.

Good you do, thank you !

 

I´m now happy I didn´t place an order without testing and it seems it´s best to wait for Namm and maybe Frankfurt Musikmesse before a buy, watching if they will sort out their bugs.

 

Please keep us informed,- I really want to like this organ.

It would be ideal for my rig as a controller (layout) and a boon according to my hip joint issues (weight/size).

 

thx a gain

 

A.C.

 

 

[Al Coda]

 

Hey, Al. I am the guy who posted it at the Clonewheel site. Trust me...it's there.

 

Just came in here ...

 

>>>

2.1.

Re: NUMA Organ - Design Flaw?

Posted by: "tfosselm" tfosselm@hotmail.com tfosselm

Sat Dec 18, 2010 3:34 am (PST)

 

 

Mine doesn't do that. I would contact the manufacturer and see what they have to say. Keep us posted.

<<<

 

Maybe it´s only your´s,- unfortunately.

 

A.C.