Jump to content


Please note: You can easily log in to MPN using your Facebook account!

NUMA Organ Update


LX88

Recommended Posts

I thought I would be seeing more discussion on these , since they have just hit the U.S. market in late November....

 

I had heard a few incarnations of the Diversi and the Ket B single manual at last year's NAMM. I was highly impressed by the sound of the organ ( Key B single manual) in general AND by the leslie simulator. On the model I heard last year my impression of the leslie sim was that it was better than the Ventilator I heard a few months later.

 

This could be the organ I have patienly waited for. I was not swayed by Hamnond Suzuki ( chorus vibrato) or any Nord stuff. Somehow, I knew the best was yet to come and I didn't want to get stuck with gear that diminishes in value. The clone I have ( VK8m ) has actually gone UP from the 500 dollars I paid for it 4 years ago.

 

I am just curious if there have been any actual sightings in the states. I should be able to see one at NAMM in about a month......

Link to comment
Share on other sites



  • Replies 81
  • Created
  • Last Reply
If you think the Roland clone is better than the Nord or Hammond I don't know what to tell you. Those numa organs will be a tough sell because of the availability of parts.

"Danny, ci manchi a tutti. La E-Street Band non e' la stessa senza di te. Riposa in pace, fratello"

 

 

noblevibes.com

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Those numa organs will be a tough sell because of the availability of parts.

What do you mean by that? Hard to get spare parts for it in the US? Since it's made by FATAR and they, AFAIK, are the biggest supplier of keybeds on the market, it seems to the availability of parts would be the least problem for Numa Organ?

Too much stuff, too little time, too few gigs, should spend more time practicing...!  🙄

main instruments: Nord Stage 3 compact, Yamaha CP88, Kurzweil PC4, Viscount KeyB Legend Live

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You don't have to TELL me anything.

 

I didn't say that the Roland was better than Hammond or Nord but I will say that I still like the VK8m. I like that it is PROGRAMMABLE ( one of the others isn't) I think it has good CHORUS VIBRATO ( one of the others doesn't). I also like the OVERDRIVE AND LESLIE SIM.

 

The only one that has swayed me has been the Key B, and now the NUMA. From what I am hearing, the Numa does not have adjustable percussion volume- bummer! At least the VK8m has that, and it is very useful. I do not like Clunk/ Thunk loud sion ( I set mine on slow, ala Jimmy Smith 1966).

 

The Roland also does not have phoney key click you can't get rid of.

 

Very few people have actually heard a Roland VK8m with a leslie sim bypass. It is one of the best digital instruments I ever will own.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Very few people have actually heard a Roland VK8m with a leslie sim bypass. It is one of the best digital instruments I ever will own.

 

I believe brother Sven uses a VK-8/Ventilator combo. Maybe he could provide some details about his experience. I remember him mentioning that it "breathed new life into his VK-8" or something like that...

Stuff and things.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I tried the Ventilator and decided that I didn't need it with the VK8m. I also play a lot with no leslie spin, which is one reason I have enjoyed the Roland so much.

 

Given- the VK8m is one of those instruments that doesn't work well in mono. But in stereo it works very well particularly if you have good programming skills.

 

If the Numa is the same as the Key B I heard last year at NAMM , I won't be needing a Ventilator with it. The Key B sim sounded PHENOMENAL. Joey DeFrancesco played it for me personally at Steamers during a sound check and he also told me he never thought a sim would cut it.

 

So as far as I am concerned, 500 bucks for a Vent is really 500 dollars closer to a Numa.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, to get a good chorus vibrato sound it is best to bypass the leslie sim on the VK8m - that means do not use brake to try to achieve it. It does not come stock by the way. You have to program it with a sysex command.

 

Many jazz players played with no leslie spin. The Roland comes pretty close to nailing it on AMP VINTAGE 1.

 

If you haven't heard it, then don't knock Roland.

 

I haven't had my hands on a NUMA yet but as far as I could tell they had the jazz chorus vibrato thing NAILED on the Key B. That is because they realize how important it is. All the clones sound good for rock, but can they cut it for a jazz recording? Most of the time I can tell that something is weird in the upper octave.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

The only one that has swayed me has been the Key B, and now the NUMA. From what I am hearing, the Numa does not have adjustable percussion volume- bummer!

 

As I said in the other thread below, according to the report of a buyer of Numa Organ who owned VK8, CX3, XK3c and owns and keeps his Hammond A100 for his home,- there´s user adjustable precussion volume anounced by Studiologic/Fatar that will come in a software update.

He asked for that.

According a reply of Elvio Priviati himself, the Numa Organ has the KeyB engine as it is incl. the excellent C/V and leslie sim.

The "amp" sim is the preamp´s sim only.

 

AFAIK and in opposite to the KeyB duo,- the Numa cannot load different organ models.

So the question is,- which organ is modelled in the Numa ?

 

My speculation and because it´s a Joey D. signature product,- it might be Joey D´s 1959 Hammond C3 w/ Wax caps.

That´s an organ which was played by Jimmy Smith himself,- read here.

http://www.musicworldonline.co.uk/keyborgan//

 

A.C.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am very glad to know that there will be a percussion volume adjustment on the NUMA.

 

It is also interesting to see that they modeled Brian Auger's organ. That shows me that these guys are really paying attention to what is going on! Auger's organ is perhaps the best Hammond I have ever heard. I was at the Baked Potato in L.A. a few years ago and I thought that Brian really had the best sound. Screw the leslie!

 

To me, the NUMA is potentially the most exciting thing that has come out in a long time. I am hoping a lower manual can be easily added. Percussion volume is my one big need.Different P.A.'s etc. are going to react differently and the percussion pitch is going to react differently to different speakers etc.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am very glad to know that there will be a percussion volume adjustment on the NUMA.

 

Wait until it´s really there.

It was a promise only.

You never know when and if a software update will be released.

 

It is also interesting to see that they modeled Brian Auger's organ. That shows me that these guys are really paying attention to what is going on! Auger's organ is perhaps the best Hammond I have ever heard. I was at the Baked Potato in L.A. a few years ago and I thought that Brian really had the best sound. Screw the leslie!

 

If a software update will come, I hope it adds the option loading other organ models.

Maybe the market will regulate that because other clones offer this option already.

 

To me, the NUMA is potentially the most exciting thing that has come out in a long time. I am hoping a lower manual can be easily added. Percussion volume is my one big need.Different P.A.'s etc. are going to react differently and the percussion pitch is going to react differently to different speakers etc.

 

I don´t wanna nitpick on the percussion,- what I heard in all the official demos and these from the user, the organ sounded good to me.

There are the norm/soft and short/long toggle rocker-switches for percussion, so a missing user tweakable volume of percussion wouldn´t be a dealbeaker for me.

If it comes as an update, it´s welcome.

 

More important for me are the MIDI details because I´d like to use it as a perfect controller for GSi VB3 on my DAW too.

 

A.C.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

More important for me are the MIDI details because I´d like to use it as a perfect controller for GSi VB3 on my DAW too.

I became more intrigued about its possibilities as a MIDI controller when I read that the reverse keys can also function as regular keys for that purpose, so it could function as a 73-key controller. I don't think it has aftertouch, though. I really would prefer to have aftertouch on my unweighted controller (as a second board on top of a weighted 88). I'd like one of my two boards to have aftertouch for driving my external synth sounds, and preferably the unweighted one. And it does have the pitch and mod wheels.

 

I'm also very curious to hear its organ sounds. I know it can do the Jimmy Smith sound. But just about everything can do a passable Jimmy Smith sound. Moreover, I don't like the Jimmy Smith sound. ;-)

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have heard very few that can do a passable Jimmy Smith sound actually - particularly when chorus vibrato is applied. Things tend to get squirrely in the upper register. Plus Jimmy's percussion volume is rarely loud if you will notice, though there are hundreds of recordings.

 

It is OK with me for you not to like Jimmy's sound all you want. To me it is classic and very hard to duplicate on a clone.

 

It also depends on your definition of "passable". Bob Scleicher's motto is -When "good enough" isn't....

 

Jimmy's 1966 period with Wes Montgomery is one of my favorite organ sounds....with long percussion decay! I will buy a clone if it can do that... the rest will take care of itself

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have a 2008 KeyB, it has 5 organs onboard, one being Smiths A100, it's a typical old wax cap crosstalk affair, really nice. Now my friend has the newer DSP KeyB which I'm going to upgrade to in January, and his has only one onboard organ. Now it seems you can load in different organs, although one at a time, as opposed to the 5 available on mine. It goes to show the OS is constantly being changed and improved upon.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

But just about everything can do a passable Jimmy Smith sound. Moreover, I don't like the Jimmy Smith sound. ;-)

 

I doubt that and there isn´t "the Jimmy Smith Sound",- there are the Jimmy Smith skills, creativity and style.

Listening to old live recordings and all the vids at youtube makes evident he used the complete pallette of sounds the Hammond and related equipment delivered at that time.

Listening to this shows he could get quite heavy at the end of the vid.

 

If a small clone like the Numa or a larger KeyB Duo is able to mimik the pure tone quality incl. perc., C/V and the preamp right as a sound source, no one holds you back to connect it to any other equipment of choice to get the sound you want, may it be different Leslies or ampheads, cabs (and mics).

Or you use it as it is.

 

A.C.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Now it seems you can load in different organs, although one at a time, as opposed to the 5 available on mine. It goes to show the OS is constantly being changed and improved upon.

 

Nothing against this behaviour.

Have a rock gig,- load the desired model and play the gig,- is it jazz or blues, do the same w/ different models.

Software updates to me means, there is evolution.

So, if there´s development for the KeyB engine, we can expect more from both the clones, KeyB and Numa.

 

A.C.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have a 2008 KeyB, it has 5 organs onboard, one being Smiths A100, it's a typical old wax cap crosstalk affair, really nice. Now my friend has the newer DSP KeyB which I'm going to upgrade to in January, and his has only one onboard organ. Now it seems you can load in different organs, although one at a time, as opposed to the 5 available on mine. It goes to show the OS is constantly being changed and improved upon.
Just out of curiosity - how do you change tonewheel model on the KeyB? Can it only be done at startup, or even while it's up and running? Does it require an external computer to do it, or is it done with a button combination?

Too much stuff, too little time, too few gigs, should spend more time practicing...!  🙄

main instruments: Nord Stage 3 compact, Yamaha CP88, Kurzweil PC4, Viscount KeyB Legend Live

Link to comment
Share on other sites

there isn´t "the Jimmy Smith Sound",- there are the Jimmy Smith skills, creativity and style.

Listening to old live recordings and all the vids at youtube makes evident he used the complete pallette of sounds the Hammond and related equipment delivered at that time.

Listening to this shows he could get quite heavy at the end of the vid.

Good point, he didn't just use one sound, I just felt that there was one kind of "classic" sound he was most associated with, which is what I was referencing.

 

But besides that, you kind of hit it on the head when you said "Listening to this shows he could get quite heavy" -- the fact that you said that means that you understand that, more often, he is associated with non-heavy sounds, and for my own playing, I favor the heavier sounds, so again, I am not as inclined toward the *typical* Jimmy Smith sound(s). :-)

 

I think it's largely a matter of my being a rock player rather than a jazz player. So while I hear what I think are plenty of emulations that get those generally "lighter" sounds very well, I can see where someone who actually *plays* those sounds would be much more tuned into their deficiencies. Heck, I don't even use C/V! Of course, that may also be in part because my first Hammond was a model C which didn't even *have* C/V. It was also the best sounding Hammond I ever played. So it makes sense that the fact that I like my Hammonds dirty rather than sweet would influence how I look at the clones, and the cleaner sounds I have less interest in seem easier to get, probably in part because I'm not as critical of them. It's all the grit and harmonic "impurities" of my 1930s C that really appeal to me and find hardest to replicate. (It's also why I prefer the Korg CX3 over the other clones I've tried, I just wish it weren't so darn heavy! And before someone asks, no, I haven't yet had the chance to play with an XK3c, or any computer-based emulations. But I have played assorted Nords, Hammonds, Rolands, Voce, and Viscount/Oberheim.)

 

If a small clone like the Numa or a larger KeyB Duo is able to mimik the pure tone quality incl. perc., C/V and the preamp right as a sound source, no one holds you back to connect it to any other equipment of choice to get the sound you want, may it be different Leslies or ampheads, cabs (and mics).

Nah, I need to travel light. As it is, I only bring the CX3 to about 2 gigs a year because it's too heavy (37.5 pounds + case). So I'm not bringing a Leslie or any significant amphead or cab, nor would I want to deal with mic'ing things up. I stopped doing all that stuff 30 years ago. :-) But a Ventilator works. And I have to say I like that little SpaceStation amp for what it brings to the table too, but even though it's pretty compact, I don't know that I'd bring a whole separate amp for the organ sound, and that's all I really like it for.

 

 

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think it's largely a matter of my being a rock player rather than a jazz player.

 

I´m, as a keyboardplayer, not a organ purist and even I played a lot of fusion, I was never a dedicated jazz player.

But I like listening to jazz. I learned a lot from listening to jazz and practice jazz tunes, but would never tell anyone I´m a jazz musician.

If you want to know if the KeyB engine is able to produce rock sounds (I myself thought it isn´t because of all the clean sounding jazz vids 1st too) you should watch these 2 vids:

 

 

Nah, I need to travel light.

 

I think you could.

But if you wouldn´t be satisfied w/ a (the NUMA) pre-amp sim for overdrive only and want that power amp overdrive in addition, you´d have to experiment a bit w/ additional gear eventually.

That could be not using the Numa´s leslie sim and a Ventilator instead or, if you´re into non-Leslie playing like Brian Auger, use another amp or amp sim, which could be software running on a V-machine, laptop/netbook or such.

 

Have in mind, Brian Auger w/ his chopped Organ Planet Hammond, goes into a Mackie mixer straight from the preamp of the organ.

That´s exactly what could be done w/ the Numa and Leslie sim switched to off,- and I like Brians sound to death.

 

And,- from my experience as a touring artist, I never had to bring own Leslies, cabs or such.

Any Leslie can be rented anywhere by the local promoter and you just have the 11-PIN output to connect.

My favourite club in town is small, 200 people fill the room.

The owner rents backline all the time and others do too overall in the world.

If not,- play w/ the sim.

 

I myself, I´m thinking about using VB3 in addition to a Numa,- so I´d have the controller and the KeyB engine, but other organ models, leslies and alternative overdrive/distortion too.

 

A.C.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you want to know if the KeyB engine is able to produce rock sounds (I myself thought it isn´t because of all the clean sounding jazz vids 1st too) you should watch these 2 vids:

Something's funky in that first video (and not the good kind of funky). The sound doesn't match what his hands are doing.

 

Regardless, as already mentioned, it appears to be an open question as to whether the Numa will have the full range of tonalities the KeyB engine is capable of. I am curious to play it, and would consider it because of its light weight. I'm wondering whether it will sound/feel sufficiently better than the comparably priced and comparably light Electro 3, considering the trade-off of losing all the non-organ capabilities. Though at least the Numa is also a better MIDI controller (pitch bend and mod wheels, and not stopping at low F). Of course I realize some people eliminate the Nord from consideration just because of the drawbar issue.

 

And,- from my experience as a touring artist, I never had to bring own Leslies, cabs or such.

Any Leslie can be rented anywhere by the local promoter and you just have the 11-PIN output to connect.

In the old days, I had roadies. These days, there may be a handful of gigs over the year with a rented backline. For 95% of the gigs, I strictly haul in my own stuff. And anything I rented would come out of my meager pay. :-) And the funny thing is, the gigs where I most want the best gear--i.e. where I'm playing the most interesting music--also tend to be the gigs that pay the least, alas.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We have reached a point in the clonewheel segment of our world that any improvement in the sound is extremely minimal. I question if these improvements justify selling your gear for 1/2 of what you originally paid for it and investing $2000+ for these minimal improvements.

 

I played the KeyB at NAMM last year and was impressed. Does it sound better than my XK3c? Yes... However, the sound is so close that I would really be hard-pressed to dump what I have and spend thousands of dollars more on such a minimal improvement.

'55 and '59 B3's, Leslies 147, 122, 21H, Motif XS7, Mellotrons M300 and M400, Wurlitzer 200, Gibson G101, Vox Continental, Mojo
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree, but I wanted to get into future proofing by getting an updateable clone. I guess I like to be at the forefront of sound creation, so it seems a good idea to me.

 

That is fine... as long as that company is still in business a few years down the road to update your clone... From recent history, this does not look very promising.

'55 and '59 B3's, Leslies 147, 122, 21H, Motif XS7, Mellotrons M300 and M400, Wurlitzer 200, Gibson G101, Vox Continental, Mojo
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Who knows how long a company will last, if I'm not mistaken though, didn't Elvio do stuff for Voce in some way. I'm still of the opinion that modelled organs are the way forward, a controller and cheap updates. That's what put me of Hammond, no improvement once you've bought one.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

We have reached a point in the clonewheel segment of our world that any improvement in the sound is extremely minimal. I question if these improvements justify selling your gear for 1/2 of what you originally paid for it and investing $2000+ for these minimal improvements.

 

I played the KeyB at NAMM last year and was impressed. Does it sound better than my XK3c? Yes... However, the sound is so close that I would really be hard-pressed to dump what I have and spend thousands of dollars more on such a minimal improvement.

 

I agree.

If I´d have buyed a XK3c already, I doubt I´d buy a Numa now and dump the XK.

To be true, I only tested a XK3 (not c) when it came out and I wasn´t impressed so much, so I didn´t buy a clone up to now.

The Numa organ for me is interesting at it´s price, as a controller, it´s portability and it sounds good to me.

The competitor at this price and here in germany would be the Hammond XK1 and in this case, I´d prefer the Numa.

The KeyB Duo is expensive here,- EUR 4.000.- + ...

That´s a lot for me.

I´d prefer a dual manual organ and the only one affordable would be a Nord C2 which is cheaper than a XK3c here.

What holds me back are the controls on the flat top of the Nord, no drawbars and the LEDs eventually not visible good enough at day-/sunlight.

If I´d buy a dual manual organ, I´d want to put a keyboard on top without putting it on a 2nd tier.

My DP is a Rhodes MK 80 which I use as a MIDI controller because I like the action,- it has a flat top and is deep enough to put the Numa on top, getting the keys together as close as possible,- so that´s the best deal for me.

 

A.C.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Numa organ for me is interesting at it´s price, as a controller, it´s portability and it sounds good to me.

The competitor at this price and here in germany would be the Hammond XK1 and in this case, I´d prefer the Numa.

 

It's not obvious from the front panel, but the XK1 is actually a surprisingly versatile MIDI controller. Each preset can support up to 3 external zones (with independent key ranges, MIDI channels, program changes, octave transpositions, volume, panning, pedal assignment and more). I'm wondering how the Numa will compare as a MIDI controller.

 

As for comparing the two, the obvious advantages of the Numa are the extra octave of keys and the lower weight. But here in the US it seems to be about $500 more expensive. The unanswered questions are how it will compare in MIDI functionality and, of course, sound.

 

If the XK1 had had another octave of keys, weighed 10 pounds less, and had aftertouch, I would have kept it. The Numa addresses two out of those three. But I'd love to see if its MIDI control capabilities are comparable. Has anyone located a manual to download?

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[i'm wondering how the Numa will compare as a MIDI controller.

 

That´s apoint !

 

As for comparing the two, the obvious advantages of the Numa are the extra octave of keys and the lower weight.

 

No,- IMO the better leslie sim is the main advantage over the XK-1.

Maybe C/V is also better and I´m believe "pre amp" overdrive is.

 

But I'd love to see if its MIDI control capabilities are comparable. Has anyone located a manual to download?

 

Agree,- it´s important to know what the MIDI implementation offers.

No,- actually I haven´t found a detailed manual in PDF format.

 

A.C.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...