Baldwin Funster Posted September 30, 2010 Share Posted September 30, 2010 Has anyone noticed that the opening organ riffs are higher in register than a B3's highest note? Live on youtube he plays it lower. Was this a tape speed pitch effect? FunMachine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mate stubb Posted September 30, 2010 Share Posted September 30, 2010 huh? If you leave off the bottom drawbars, you can make it as high as you want. Moe --- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedKey Posted September 30, 2010 Share Posted September 30, 2010 While I agree w/ Moe, there is still something interesting going on with the organ sound. Most noticeable in the verse after the bridge. Starting around 1:40 (version on Damn The Torpedoes). It sounds like more than the standard B3 & Leslie sound. Like a ring mod w/ heavy tremolo (fast) effect. Am I hearing things? I hope "the voices" in my head are not back. I ignore that effect when I play it. I personally don't like the effect as it reminds me of some sound I heard at the circus as a kid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonglow Posted September 30, 2010 Share Posted September 30, 2010 Side bar: I thought I read somewhere that he actually plays that opening organ lead left-handed, while his right hand lays down the eigth-note piano groove. "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing." - George Bernard Shaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phred Posted September 30, 2010 Share Posted September 30, 2010 You read that in Keyboard mag. I'm just saying', everyone that confuses correlation with causation eventually ends up dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Klopmeyer Posted September 30, 2010 Share Posted September 30, 2010 I love that intro. Benmont = god. Marketing Communications for MI/Pro Audio My solo music and stuff They Stole My Crayon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mynameisdanno Posted September 30, 2010 Share Posted September 30, 2010 While I agree w/ Moe, there is still something interesting going on with the organ sound. Most noticeable in the verse after the bridge. Starting around 1:40 (version on Damn The Torpedoes). It sounds like more than the standard B3 & Leslie sound. Like a ring mod w/ heavy tremolo (fast) effect. Am I hearing things? I hope "the voices" in my head are not back. I ignore that effect when I play it. I personally don't like the effect as it reminds me of some sound I heard at the circus as a kid. You may have the displeasure of hearing it from your C3 someday. I'm not positive since I've never played a Hammond in this state, but my pet theory on that final verse is that the organ used on that song had a malfunctioning vibrato scanner, resulting in the dreaded "motorboating" when V/C are engaged. Just google Hammond organ vibrato motorboating and you'll find some relevant info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedKey Posted September 30, 2010 Share Posted September 30, 2010 Thank you. I appreciate learning something new. Bad scanner never occurred to me. Makes it hard to duplicate (thankfully). I hope the recording story was something like... "out of budget, out of time.... leave it". Benmont still kills! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mynameisdanno Posted September 30, 2010 Share Posted September 30, 2010 Yeah, I don't particularly like the sound, but I love that it's there. A nice reminder that even on records that legendary and cleanly produced, they were still dealing with the same cantankerous gear us mere mortals use. The way I like to imagine it, Benmont was the first in a long line of rockers to come through that particular studio to actually bother turning on the C/V. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonysounds Posted September 30, 2010 Share Posted September 30, 2010 Yeah, well, talk to Greg Rolie: disrepair was the key to his Hammond sound. Hitting "Play" does NOT constitute live performance. -Me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mididude Posted September 30, 2010 Share Posted September 30, 2010 I've heard what you described in that song, and always figured he had somehow messed with the pulley settings on the Leslie, or done some other strange modification to the Leslie motor/s, but the beating frequency is suuuper fast, so it made me doubt that theory. Interesting to know that's scanner vibrato 'motor-boating'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Muscara Posted September 30, 2010 Share Posted September 30, 2010 dink dink dink dink dink (I think the "broken" Hammond makes for a cool sound here. But it sounds fine with a maintained Hammond, too. [video:youtube]8UCdbGvemVg [video:youtube]qZwwqlpD3lI "I'm so crazy, I don't know this is impossible! Hoo hoo!" - Daffy Duck "The good news is that once you start piano you never have to worry about getting laid again. More time to practice!" - MOI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sven Golly Posted September 30, 2010 Share Posted September 30, 2010 How about everyone watches Benmont talk about the song in question in the recent Keyboard interview video? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinny Posted September 30, 2010 Share Posted September 30, 2010 It's been a long time since I've played my old M3, but it had a very similar sound to what's being discussed here. In my case, it wasn't a scanner problem. It sounded like a tonewheel was somehow faulty. I remember asking about it on the Hammond Zone years ago, and IIRC, other members said a tonewheel or tonewheels was/were to blame. I don't know for sure; I'm no Hammond tech. Maybe I could fire up the thing and give it another listen. Stuff and things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Alfredson Posted October 1, 2010 Share Posted October 1, 2010 Sounds like a normal Hammond to me (no motor-boating or bad tonewheels). I think the effect you're hearing is from mic'ing both sides of the Leslie horn (ie, the mics are 180 degrees from each other) and then summing that to mono. The upper horn in a real Leslie only emits sound from one side of the horn (the other is there for balance). So if you had mics on both the front and the back and summed those mics to mono, it would sound like the Leslie is spinning twice as fast, right? Keep it greazy! B3tles - Soul Jazz THEO - Prog Rock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon May Posted October 1, 2010 Share Posted October 1, 2010 Hold on a minute...(thinking really hard...) Are you yanking my chain? "I'm well acquainted with the touch of a velvet hand..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Alfredson Posted October 1, 2010 Share Posted October 1, 2010 You know I wouldn't do you like that. Keep it greazy! B3tles - Soul Jazz THEO - Prog Rock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mynameisdanno Posted October 1, 2010 Share Posted October 1, 2010 Yeah, it's definitely got that 180 degree mic pair thing going on, but that doesn't fully explain it. You can hear the "effect" in question most clearly on the high whole note open 6ths from 1:48-1:57, and you can definitely hear the Leslie spinning up to tremolo near the end of that passage. And all of that sounds distinct from the famous intro from 0:08-0:17 - my theory there is that the C/V wasn't used in that section. I've never heard a motorboating Hammond in person though, so it's just a theory. There aren't too many records I would get this obsessed with. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Muscara Posted October 1, 2010 Share Posted October 1, 2010 I think someone needs to setup a real Leslie and some mics and try to duplicate the sound exactly to see if it can be done. "I'm so crazy, I don't know this is impossible! Hoo hoo!" - Daffy Duck "The good news is that once you start piano you never have to worry about getting laid again. More time to practice!" - MOI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinny Posted October 1, 2010 Share Posted October 1, 2010 Maybe Benmont could chime in here with an explanation... Stuff and things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon May Posted October 1, 2010 Share Posted October 1, 2010 Ze double entendre! "I'm well acquainted with the touch of a velvet hand..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mate stubb Posted October 1, 2010 Share Posted October 1, 2010 Motorboating sounds really bad. There's no way you would ever record a Hammond doing that. Moe --- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldwin Funster Posted October 1, 2010 Author Share Posted October 1, 2010 I still think i'm right. If you slowed down the multitrack tape during the take, Upon regular speed playback you would get the higher pitch, the faster tremelo and the overdrive from the leslie would be a bit phase smeared sounding a little like the ring modulator. FunMachine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mate stubb Posted October 1, 2010 Share Posted October 1, 2010 Do you have a link to the sound you are talking about? Moe --- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldwin Funster Posted October 1, 2010 Author Share Posted October 1, 2010 FunMachine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Muscara Posted October 1, 2010 Share Posted October 1, 2010 That didn't help. "I'm so crazy, I don't know this is impossible! Hoo hoo!" - Daffy Duck "The good news is that once you start piano you never have to worry about getting laid again. More time to practice!" - MOI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mynameisdanno Posted October 1, 2010 Share Posted October 1, 2010 Moe, in the linked video, you can most clearly hear the sound we're talking about in the ascending open 6ths Benmont plays from 1:50-1:59, last four bars of the last verse. There's a sort of choppy quality to the sound, and then you distinctly hear the Leslie spin up from chorale to tremolo in the last bar before the chorus. The sound quality's not very good on that clip - headphones might help. A Hammond-ignorant guitar player buddy of mine always figured Benmont was doing a tremolo on piano in that section, which is kind of what it sounds like. Kas, I always heard that distinctive Hammond tone on the original studio recording as a combination of high drawbars and some aggressive low cut EQ. Also, this review of the Damn the Torpedoes Classic Albums DVD seems to indicate that Jimmy Iovine had a strong bias towards getting full-band live takes, which (along with Benmont's basic philosophy as a player) makes it seem doubtful he would have tolerated any mucking about with Beatles-esque tape speed trickery. http://www.retroblog.net/2010/08/06/tom-petty-classic-albums-damn-the-torpedoes-dvd-review/ On a side note, I'm going to go order that DVD right now. I can't believe I hadn't heard about it already. I must have watched the one they made for Aja a dozen times now and I don't even own it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mate stubb Posted October 1, 2010 Share Posted October 1, 2010 Boy I don't hear anything unusual whatsoever during that span. Moe --- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinny Posted October 1, 2010 Share Posted October 1, 2010 I noticed it a long time ago, and it always bugged me. Stuff and things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meisenhower Posted October 1, 2010 Share Posted October 1, 2010 It's clearly not "motor boating". If you've ever heard a bad vibrato scanner, or one that needed to be zapped, it is way more obvious than what is heard on the cut. I think I'm with B3er on this one. Sounds more like a mic placement thing than a bad vibrato scanner. Yamaha C7 Grand, My Hammonds: '57 B3, '54 C2, '42 BC, '40 D, '05 XK3 Pro System, Kawai MP9000, Fender Rhodes Mk I 73, Yamaha CP33, Motif ES6, Nord Electro 2, Minimoog Voyager & Model D, Korg MS10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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