Barry Harris -- "it's not jazz" video clip

[Jazz+]

 

[linwood]

My buddy Estel filmed that. He gave it to me in the '80's. At that same time he did one with Joe Z and one with George Duke and Stanley. Nice stuff.

[orangefunk]

I recall he laid into Joe Zawinul and Weather Report some years after (1989?) this in Keyboard magazine itself..

[SK]

My buddy Estel filmed that. He gave it to me in the '80's. At that same time he did one with Joe Z and one with George Duke and Stanley. Nice stuff.

It was nice reconnecting with Estel on FB after all these years.

 

Jazz vs. "jazz according to tradition." Yeah, give'm hell, Barry.

 

[sachimay]

I have nothing but respect and admiration for mr. harris's playing, but having an attitude of sticking to tradition in jazz seems so "anti" jazz to me....i've always considered jazz to be one of the fastest developing art/music forms of them all, and to constantly want to keep it in place and not allow it to continue to develop seems rather antiquated and small minded.....just my very humble opinion....

[marino]

I have nothing but respect and admiration for mr. harris's playing, but having an attitude of sticking to tradition in jazz seems so "anti" jazz.

 

I couldn't have said it better.

 

 

[orangefunk]

Its funny Carlo, because when Barry Harris' name popped I recalled you doing those block chords in my house last year.. :-).

[ProfD]

Barry Harris is a bad mofo hands down (no pun intended). But, like every other genre, Jazz should be viewed as a tree consisting of many branches.

 

Those branches include Dixieland, Swing, Bebop, Cool, Soul, Funk, Fusion, Hard Bop, Avant Garde, Free, Acid, Smooth, M-base and whatever the future brings.

 

Preserving the music is important. Defining it is a slippery slope. But, chopping off branches and/or stunting the growth of that tree essentially kills it.

[SK]

I have nothing but respect and admiration for mr. harris's playing, but having an attitude of sticking to tradition in jazz seems so "anti" jazz to me....i've always considered jazz to be one of the fastest developing art/music forms of them all, and to constantly want to keep it in place and not allow it to continue to develop seems rather antiquated and small minded.....just my very humble opinion....

I took it the other way around, because it sounded like they were emulating tradition. I thought Harris was telling them that they were playing jazz tradition, not jazz in the moment. So, I agree with you, if that's not what he was saying.

[David Loving]

I thought he told them they sucked. He was gonna have be-bop played in his house and they could go play whatever they were playing somewhere else. "I won't tolerate what I don't dig." He's a bop player and that's that. Actually I like that attitude.

[SK]

I thought he told them they sucked.

Yep, whatever else he said, that was the bottom line.

[Clifton]

I have nothing but respect and admiration for mr. harris's playing, but having an attitude of sticking to tradition in jazz seems so "anti" jazz.

 

I couldn't have said it better.

 

 

You have to admire the mans' devotion though.

[Clifton]

Incidentally I thought I'd chime in that his Workshop DVD + Book is an awesome course in learning how to play the changes PROPERLY

[Bridog6996]

There's no arguing with Barry Harris. I can't say I agree with his musical outlook, but I love the man's playing, and I love how blunt he is. Sometimes.

[Meisenhower]

It just goes that even the most gifted elder statesman can sometimes be wrong. (hell, even Einstein got a couple of things wrong).

 

As if jazz isn't already under enough fire and losing popularity amongst "regular people", the last think we need is our venerable elder statesmen further fracturing the genere.

 

There are many jazz clubs that open things up for jams, and the only request is that they "keep it jazz". No blues, blues rock, polka . . . it has to be jazz. Baker's Keyboard Lounge in Detroit is an example of this. John will come out if he hears some young cats straying out of genre and tell them between tunes, "keep it jazz, boys".

 

Clearly what those kids were blowing in Barry's place was jazz and while not purely bebop, his was a pretty strong reaction to something not awful.

 

I'd have rather see him be a little more encouraging, rather than tossing them out and telling them to play elsewhere.

 

Love Barry's playing and he is a genius, but damn. . . a little more humanity bro.

[David Loving]

I agree with him. I thought they sucked, too.

[Joe Muscara]

Yeah, but his criticism was that it wasn't bebop, *and* he started out with, "if you're going to call that music." Sometimes, you do need to get harsh with people, but you should be clear when you do. If he said, "that's not the kind of jazz we play here, and frankly, it wasn't very good, here's why," that'd been different. IMNSHO.

 

OTOH, him teaching kids jazz is a great thing. Hopefully those players who weren't very good in the clip got to learn more than that they sucked.

[Garrafon]

Sounded like a jerk to me. Even if that's how he felt, I'm sure there was a better way to go about it. One's own playing ability does not give them carte blanche to be an a$$.

[SMcD]

The irony of this attitude is that bebop (The music Mr. Harris wants to adhere to so strictly) is the result of multiple breakings of tradition. Bebop was something of a "rebellion" against earlier swing, and jazz as a whole started as something radically different from other music of the time. The attitude that created jazz is the very same one that people like Harris and the Marsalis family continue to rally against, and to me, that seems ignorant.

[timwat]

Well, it was just a relatively short compilation clip - and notice that Mr. Harris is clearly aware that he's being filmed. My initial reaction was that his two direct interactions with students in the clip were negative - with the little boy - "Boy, did you get mess up the rhythm" (my paraphrase) and with that band.

 

But the two-edged sword of video editing means someone has a perspective on what they're trying to get the video to communicate. Who knows what else he taught all those people that was left on the editing floor, or when the cameras weren't running. I've found the best teachers adjust their approach to individual students based upon the individual student's temperament and what they can handle.

 

All to say, I wouldn't base my decision on Mr. Harris' attitude toward jazz, his students and music in general from one video clip.

[Floyd Tatum]

But the two-edged sword of video editing means someone has a perspective on what they're trying to get the video to communicate. Who knows what else he taught all those people that was left on the editing floor, or when the cameras weren't running. I've found the best teachers adjust their approach to individual students based upon the individual student's temperament and what they can handle.

 

All to say, I wouldn't base my decision on Mr. Harris' attitude toward jazz, his students and music in general from one video clip.

That's exactly what I was thinking when I watched it. That part of the video in his club, before the "I don't like what I hear" comment, is a) only about 20 seconds long, and b) you only get to hear a couple of seconds of each player. Under that scenario, it's almost impossible to say what really happened, or what those players really sounded like.

 

I went to a Barry Harris clinic here in Toronto, but I didn't like the way it was managed by the people that put on the clinic. There were about 40 or 50 people, and it was like a free-for-all, everyone just crowding into the piano. Unless you were in the front row, you couldn't see or hear what was going on. A lack of organization on the part of the promoters. I asked them to do something about it, but they didn't care, so I left.

 

[Bridog6996]

Maybe editing played a role in the vibe of that clip, but Mr. Harris is very opinionated on the subject of jazz. His portrayal in that clip is pretty much the way he is, although it's rare to see him raise his voice as he appeared to do in that one particular scene with the other players. There's probably some context to that that we didn't see. He's a nice guy, but a traditionalist for sure.

 

And if your rhythm is bad, he'll let you know (hey, that's just honesty), but then he'll sit down and help you work on it.

[Joe Muscara]

The attitude that created jazz is the very same one that people like Harris and the Marsalis family continue to rally against, and to me, that seems ignorant.

Ain't that the most bizarre thing? Especially when you couple that with the good stuff these guys do for the genre. Sadly, the bad negates the good in some people's minds and they simply say, "that guy is a jerk" and blow them off entirely.

 

And if your rhythm is bad, he'll let you know (hey, that's just honesty), but then he'll sit down and help you work on it.

Excellent!

[WheelHead]

I, perhaps a minority, agree with him. Beep-Bop is/was the highest and most perfect form, imho. A form that hit to the core the body rhythms and a soul that created the highest possible euphoria from the listener without demanding music appreciation academics to any great extent. Just an 'ear' to hear. Why it is classic jazz.

 

I love the guy. A hero.

 

W

[Legatoboy]

Well here is my take on this.

I have been told, (told doesn't mean I accept at face value or blindly take on, I consider things and think for myself), that Barry, as wonderful as he is and I know this 1st hand because I sat right behind him for a full set at the Village Vanguard 2 years ago is not a first generation be-bop player in some sense. I think that makes some of the arguments here in the very least a bit more complicated. Barry in some circles of the jazz community in New York is seen as one of the great disciples of Bud, Bud Powell but not an authentic innovator of the music as he really does not have Buds fire or ability to pull things completely out the thin air the way Bud did. Tommy Flanagan also here. Barry is considered the piano version of Sonny Stitt (sax) in some sense! Doesn't mean he's not a great player but it may not be prudent to exemplify him as completely representative of the spirit of Be-Bop personified though he does play it and is truly one of the last surviving members of that group of players and it's heritage.

 

Honestly I do not know everything about Barry, not to diminish him as he was absolutely wonderful at the Vanguard with a great rhythm section that night! Thoroughly enjoyable!

 

 

[David Loving]

He knows what he can do well, and he knows what he likes. He thinks be-bop is the epitome of jazz evolution - he may be right. What's wrong with that?

[WheelHead]

Sounded like a jerk to me. Even if that's how he felt, I'm sure there was a better way to go about it. One's own playing ability does not give them carte blanche to be an a$$.

 

Remember though this is more than just music to some of these guys this is their absolute life-all and deep passions come out. Eccentric? Yes but a norm of the arts.

 

That scene with him yelling reminds me of something that embarrassed me in my own life with a neighbor.

 

My next door neighbor has a rock band and they were not really bad though they were hobby musicians.

 

A friend who will be not mentioned by name came over my house who is a leading solo act and probably has a record for gigs while I was invited over to 'party' a little bit at their rehearsal spot in their basement. I worked with this friend before in a trio and he is freak talent actually.

 

Anyway, I go downstairs to the studio with my deeply-seasoned-pro-cat bud (and that is all he does and all he has ever done) and the band starts playing.

 

My bud starts *yelling!! at them* and telling them they are doing this wrong and that wrong and this wrong and was quite obnoxious that is usually out of character. I was extremely embarrassed as despite the band may suck. THEY are my neighbors. I whispered in his ear, "shut the **** up look like you are having a good time and we will be out of here in 5 minutes."

 

I said, "this is not a pro act they are just having a good time making music."

 

Never do that again. I was very embarrassed and apologized later.

 

W

 

[David Loving]

The difference is that those amateurs in the video were in Mr. Harris' basement.

[zephonic]

Barry Harris did masterclasses at the Royal Conservatory (Netherlands) a couple of times. Congenial fellow, perhaps rigid in his musical views but a very good teacher.

 

[SK]

Legatoboy has a good NY insight into this.

 

The thing to remember about bop era musicians like Harris is the spirit of competition they had, the technical cutting sessions, etc., and the whole attitude that was pervasive back then. A Sonny Stitt gig showed me in one evening what that was all about.

 

The definition of jazz is broader and looser now. But even today, no serious improvisor's education is complete without some understanding of bop. Bop is to jazz what Bach was to western classical music.