live controller keyboard for laptop

[zephonic]

I have a question for those of you who use a laptop live or plan to do so. What are the most essential features in a controller keyboard for you?

 

If you were to design your dream controller keyboard for live use with a notebook computer, what would be the things you would focus on? The must-haves, the do nots etc.

 

Are 88 weighted keys important or not, built-in audio IO yes or no, which real-time controller functions are important, FW or USB, what software would you use with it etc.

 

Your replies will be appreciated. Thanks.

 

 

 

 

[Ken Beaumont]

Ah the illusive dream! Seems like a never ending quest. My priorities:

 

1)I would like 76 weighted keys with decent action, both midi & usb.

2)A decent software library for setup.

 

3) Light weight like a Privia and built strong enough not to break after just a couple gigs! I had a M-Audio prokeys that failed in just under 6 months and it had never left my studio!

 

3)Enough sliders to either assign them as faders or drawbars.

 

4) Reasonable price, say <$1k. If I can get a good stage piano with sounds for that then a manufacturer should be able to provide a decent controller for that amount. Since I have been using a stage piano as a controller anyway!

 

As far as any other controls, pads etc. I could buy a $50 korg nano pad/controller and be good to go! Not a top priority here, you can put them in if want but not at great expense.

I could care less about mortorized faders, wireless midi or whatever CME thinks I need to pay for.

 

Just give me a good 76 weighted controller, that is reliable, light and doesn't break the bank!

I want something I can use in the studio and take on stage. I have a Sonic Cell, MacBook, Ivory & Logic 8. I have an axon midi guitar controller that works fine and it only cost $500! It has more flexibility than I'll ever need. Why is it manufacturers can't produce a decent controller? Maybe they need to hire more good engineers and less marketing specialists.

[johnchop]

I'm not a huge fan of all-in-ones, usually because some component falls short. But as we're dreaming...

 

- 76 semi-weighted keys with aftertouch

- built-in FW audio IO.

- Balanced IO throughout, two headphone outs, two XLR/TRS combo ins, 4 outs

- USB and standard MIDI I/O/T ports

- two footswitch jacks, expression pedal input

- 12 or 16 solid drum pads for triggering samples

- 9 sliders, knobs, switches

- Display above sliders/knobs/switches with info about what they control and current value

- save setups to thumb drive or SD card

- some sort of UI so that software not required to program controls or work with the audio IO

 

As for those last two... yeah yeah yeah it's hooked up to a computer so why bother? Well, as a dream controller I want to be able to use it with other gear.

 

[NYKeys]

Just Purchased a laptop about 2 weeks ago.

Since I already have a KX88 (needs to go to the shop) and a SP76. The only thing that was lacking was the controls.

 

Filled the bill with a used a 25 note E-MU Xboard.

[bloodyMary]

I have little use for real-time controllers on stage..and don't like to mess with multiple pieces of gear. So...

-76 semiweighted keys

-built-in audio interface

-lightweight, under 10 kilos.

-2 footswitch inputs

-4 knobs, 2 switches, 4 trigger pads, all assignable.

I would them velcro a 7'' touch screen on top of it and have an ultimate controller.

Oh, and it should cost no more than $500.

,

Hmm... A good idea for a DIY project.. Take a basic midi controller, hack a small audio interface into it, second footswitch, korg nano-something, a USB hub to only have one cable coming out of it...

 

[yannis D]

I use my old M Audio Ozone 25 controller for 6 or 7 years now. It has all the buttons/knobs i need (and only lacks an expression input...). I think for live use 8 knobs are more than enough. You never really use more than this - at least i don't. If i need more keys, i plug my sound card to a 88 or 76 controller which is provided by the organizer and run the Rhodes/pianos/from there.

If you have a big board in use, you can use it to control your instruments and have the M Audio do the synth/lead/knob tweaking job, where action is not the primary thing.

 

[johnchop]

Novation comes really close spec-wise, minus the audio interface, and there's no 76-key version.

 

Again, I want something I don't HAVE to lash to a computer to make everything work.

 

With built-in audio I/O, it would be cool to have an "Audio control" mode so you can insta-map the control surface to managing the I/O routings, levels, pans, sample rates, etc. without having to screw with some sort of clumsy software mixer UI.

 

-John

[NYKeys]

Had my eye on the Novation series. The automap feature looks like a real time saver.

 

 

[gliderproarc]

One of the features I have never considered essential to a live laptop controller, that I now think essential for a professional application, is onboard sounds.

 

I currently run a laptop based rig, with an older MBP and a Novation RemoteSL 61. I pay regularly with a church band as a second keyboard player, so I cover organ, pads and strings, while the other keyboard plays piano on a S90es. I'm running plug-ins like NI's B4II and Omnisphere or Zebra for Pads.

 

One of my biggest concerns is stability. As much as I love Mainstage 2.1, it has crashed on me twice durning the course of two years of steadily playing about 10 services a month. So as infrequent as those crashes are, they can be disastrous. During one crash, I was able to restart the application, but because I have so many samples to load, it takes me a while to get it running again, possibly missing an entire verse or chorus. If I had been carrying the entire song with a pad or otherwise, and I had to drop out for even 30 seconds for a re-launch of the app, it would have been a train wreck.

 

Just the other week, I played without a second keybaordist on a hybrid rig. My Novation was on my second tier with the church's S90es on my first tier. It was great! I had a good 88 weighted action for Piano, and a nice semi weighted 61 action for synth and organ. And if at any time my computer decided to have a fit, I could just reach down and start playing the S90.

 

So I see the ideal keyboard controller being something like Studiologic's upcoming Numa Piano or Numa Organ.

-A board with basic onboard sounds, but USB-MIDI for driving a laptop.

-A separate audio interface for taking audio from the laptop, and direct from the boards.

-If the laptop croaks, you could just bring up a volume slider and be right back into it.

-For physical controls, I would want at least one fader/knob for controlling the overall volume of Mainstage, and around 8 buttons to send MIDI program changes (If the board did not have these, I would be fine adding a Novation ZeroSL to the rig).

-For playing Organ, a set of faders for controlling drawbars is a must.

-Mod wheel, not stick.

-Expression pedal in.

 

Somthing I am beginning to expiriment with live is using an iPodtouch and touchOSC+OSCulator in place of pysical midi controllers. My father recently purchsed an iPad, and I am looking forword to visiting him this summer and experimenting with touchOSC layouts for controlling my rig on an iPad. As far a whether to use iPad+touchOSC+OSCulator vs. Nvation ZeroSL, the Novation is probably the best route to go... for now. Open sound control is still a very young protocol, and apps like touchOSC and OSCulator are still in their infancy. Maybe in a few years OSC based touch controllers will be more mainstream and stable, but right now I would not be confidant using such bleeding edge tech for my patch changes and volume control.

 

[timwat]

Thanks, gliderproarc. That answers my question about MS2 stability.

 

To respond to zeph's question - when I was running Mainstage off my MBP as my live rig, I used two boards to control the rig - Novation 61SL remote on top and Kawai MP4 on bottom.

 

The Novation provided all the knobs and sliders I needed, which I mapped to all the usual suspects (layer volume, rhodes tine, drawbars, FX balance, etc.) The Kawai provided the weighted keys for piano (Ivory) and EPs (Logic's EVP88). The Novation controlled all the other stuff (EVB3, synths, leads, etc.). Used MOTU ultralite for interface.

 

Was a great sounding rig, provided all the flexibility I needed but was not inconsequential to set up. The number one thing I want (that I think all of us want) is stability. Just give me "as bullet proof as hardware" and it would make the extra cabling and schlep factor tolerable.

[Bridog6996]

Had my eye on the Novation series. The automap feature looks like a real time saver.

 

 

I own a Remote SL. Love it! What I look for in a controller is precisely that: control. The more software control you can put at my finger tips, the better, and Novation excels at that. The action isn't half bad either. Not weighted, but piano type action isn't a concern of mine when it comes to a controller.

 

Automap is pretty neat too. It doesn't always work quite right (some plug-ins and software are more compatible than others), and usually needs a little tweaking, but the ease of mapping parameters overall is fantastic.

[Nicky]

I would get the latest novation controller (SLmk2)....but they decided to use 8 faders instead of 9.....so you can't use them for virtual drawbars.....I'm baffled as to why they would do this as their discontued controller (X Station) had 9 faders. Really frustrating

because that's a deal breaker for me.

[bluzeyone]

Hello Zephonic.(cool stage name by the way!) Alot of people will hurl a stone or two for what I'm about to say but here it goes;( God hates a coward); I personally don't do the software thing outside the studio. The mere thought terrifies me. I'm a hardware fan for the stage. However, when I was looking for a midi controller for my rig I did a bit of research.

Alot of players in this forum are total haters of m-audio gear. I played a few so I know why they don't like them. Especially the hard core piano players. Simply saying, they feel "sticky". The response is a bit sluggish. That said, there are more expensive brands with better feel. I personally am on a budget and don't want to pound, night after night on an expensive piece of gear. I'll spend a couple of grand on a brain, but man, gimme a body I can beat! LoL!

Getting back on track. M-Audio does make a midi controller that gives you serious mapping options. It is called Axiom Pro 61. The cat at Sweetwater raved hard about it. I guess they go all over the place and do sale demos. He said he uses one for each tour and it never layed down on him.

The real question is what do you need it for? I gig with an 88 key controller as I need the real estate. Its just a strip of white and black teeth,where as the Axiom is 61 key but loaded with triggers. Hope I was of some help to you.

[bluzeyone]

I like the way you think Bloody! Thats using the grape!

[allan_evett]

I'm not a huge fan of all-in-ones, usually because some component falls short. But as we're dreaming...

 

- 76 semi-weighted keys with aftertouch

- built-in FW audio IO.

- Balanced IO throughout, two headphone outs, two XLR/TRS combo ins, 4 outs

- USB and standard MIDI I/O/T ports

- two footswitch jacks, expression pedal input

- 12 or 16 solid drum pads for triggering samples

- 9 sliders, knobs, switches

- Display above sliders/knobs/switches with info about what they control and current value

- save setups to thumb drive or SD card

- some sort of UI so that software not required to program controls or work with the audio IO

 

As for those last two... yeah yeah yeah it's hooked up to a computer so why bother? Well, as a dream controller I want to be able to use it with other gear.

 

 

Great list, johnchop ! Especially that first item.... And having a display above the controllers would be killer.

 

I'd also add 4 zone capability, with each zone assignable to USB, MIDI, or both at the same time. That would make it an uber, dream controller for using with modules and laptop combined.

[mcgoo]

I use the M-Audio KS Pro 88 controller. I have 3 of them- studio, gig rig & church rig. I have a love hate relationship with it.

 

'Hate the keyboard, hate the quality build (some of the knobs are starting to "slip"). And it's heavy. And it's sluggish at calling up new setups. And the software editor is kinda slow & clumsey (but functional).

 

Love that it's cheap (but you get what you pay for). Love the vast amount of controllers. I have knobs set to control aux sends, where I can route things (in addition to my B-4) to my Motion Sound Leslie sim. I have buttons dedicated to turning on / off the organ vibrato, percussion etc., knobs controlling B-4 perc volume, key click volume, the 4 zone volumes, faders to drawbars & buttons to send patch changes....

 

Basically, that controller gives me as close as I can get to the realtime control you'd get with the real thing, without lugging a whole bunch of other heavy keyboards. A Laptop rig is not a real versatile rig the way a ROMpler is, but that controller lets me get around some of the inherent limitations of a Laptop rig. I just wish it wasn't such a POS to play & move.

[bluzeyone]

I work with b-4 in the studio. That software is impressive! The organ+ cabinet options way cool! Even gives you control over the amount of leakage and semi tones. With some imagination and forethought, you could fool anyone with the sound source.(keyboard player dreams). A great choice for your arsenal! I never used it in a live setting but thought about its horsepower in doing so.

[e-keys]

I use the M-Audio KS Pro 88 controller. I have 3 of them- studio, gig rig & church rig. I have a love hate relationship with it.

 

'Hate the keyboard, hate the quality build (some of the knobs are starting to "slip"). And it's heavy. And it's sluggish at calling up new setups. And the software editor is kinda slow & clumsey (but functional).

 

Love that it's cheap (but you get what you pay for). Love the vast amount of controllers. I have knobs set to control aux sends, where I can route things (in addition to my B-4) to my Motion Sound Leslie sim. I have buttons dedicated to turning on / off the organ vibrato, percussion etc., knobs controlling B-4 perc volume, key click volume, the 4 zone volumes, faders to drawbars & buttons to send patch changes....

 

Basically, that controller gives me as close as I can get to the realtime control you'd get with the real thing, without lugging a whole bunch of other heavy keyboards. A Laptop rig is not a real versatile rig the way a ROMpler is, but that controller lets me get around some of the inherent limitations of a Laptop rig. I just wish it wasn't such a POS to play & move.

 

Did you ever look at the AKAI mpk88.

 

 

 

 

[allan_evett]

I use the M-Audio KS Pro 88 controller. I have 3 of them- studio, gig rig & church rig. I have a love hate relationship with it....

 

Did you ever look at the AKAI mpk88.

 

 

 

 

The MPK88, even the whole MPK line up, seemed very solid when I saw them at NAMM. Definitely worth checking out.

 

I'm holding out for an MPK76 though

[e-keys]

That would be sweet. I would seriously consider that.

[mcgoo]

I use the M-Audio KS Pro 88 controller. I have 3 of them- studio, gig rig & church rig. I have a love hate relationship with it....

 

Did you ever look at the AKAI mpk88.

 

 

 

 

The MPK88, even the whole MPK line up, seemed very solid when I saw them at NAMM. Definitely worth checking out.

 

I'm holding out for an MPK76 though

 

Looks nice, but only 8 faders is kinda a deal breaker for me since I use the faders to control virtual drawbars.

[zukskywalker]

Loving the dream controller list. I had to compromise and gave up on that last drawbar since faders keep coming in groups of eight. Might I add polyphonic aftertouch to the list along with BC(breath controller) input?