Wow keyboards over the last 6 years

[Dan O]

I was involved with music retail for 22 years and did some demo stuff at NAMM in 2001 thru 2003. I use to visit this board every day for a few years but slipped away.

 

I look at todays keyboards and wonder how everyone feels about the job keyboard manufacturers have been doing over the last 5 to 6 years.

 

Is there a "wow" keyboard that stepped everything up a notch ? Or are we seeing the big three tweak their product lines year after year ?

 

I know there was some excitement over Kurzweil putting some products out.

 

But I just don't see any "wow"...

 

Any thoughts ?

[ProfD]

When I lay hands on the latest KB(s), it feels and sounds like more of the same with tweaks. Not bad or wow. Just...OK... next.

[Ian Benhamou]

My last trip to the music store was a real disappointment.

[Dan O]

Ian.. I feel ya. Exactly what this thread is about. Everything seems "oh hum".

[Bill H.]

No one seems to be making the kind of financial investment it would take to re-vamp their sound libraries from the bottom up. With the exception of a few new pianos here and there, they all just keep using their same old sample sets with a few modest additions.

 

This includes Kurzweil.

[J Graul]

Maybe because the keyboard community is looking backwards. Everything coming out today is a remake of a keyboard/sounds of 30 years ago!

 

 

[Joe Muscara]

Maybe because the keyboard community is looking backwards. Everything coming out today is a remake of a keyboard/sounds of 30 years ago!

At least. One of them goes back around 150 years

[lerber3]

Maybe because the keyboard community is looking backwards. Everything coming out today is a remake of a keyboard/sounds of 30 years ago!

 

That´s because most modern music uses those sounds and most players play that music. They need to sell to somebody. I don´t think any of those bizarre keyboardish instruments that Jordan Rudess occasionally plays are making huge inroads into the muso market. They do have a fair ´wow´ factor in a weird way, though.

 

I´m biased, but I thought the Nord Stage was the coolest keyboard to show up in a long time. Interesting pianos (quirks and all), decent organ (B3 and classic transistor), synth section, decent effects and amp sims, lots of knobs for live tweaking, ongoing support and upgrades, a bit of real wood (cheek blocks and pitch stick), and a whole lotta redliness.

 

Not everybody´s cup of tea, but for a minority of people it had a pretty decent WOW factor.

 

Flame me if you disagree

[Ian Benhamou]

No one seems to be making the kind of financial investment it would take to re-vamp their sound libraries from the bottom up. With the exception of a few new pianos here and there, they all just keep using their same old sample sets with a few modest additions.

 

This includes Kurzweil.

 

Well I have to disagree with you on this. Kurzweil's sound is much less sample dependant than other manufacturers. VAST synthesis is so deep, that there is virtually no limit to how you can manipulate and transform samples. The PC3 is the one and only keyboard that blew me away from the first listen, and after owning it for 2 years, it sounds even better.

 

I was more referring to my recent visit with the SV-1, CP-1 and S70xs. Nothing to get a hard on about.

[Tusker]

We've sampled most of what is out there:

 

The individual instruments, the orchestras, the choirs, ethnic instruments, etc. Not much left to sample. We have recognizable facsimiles of nearly everything musical in the average rompler. Sure, better sampling sessions are possible, but we are well into diminishing returns in my view.

 

New leaps will come in interface & control, synthesis/signal processing and amplification systems in my view.

 

Sampling+modeling seems to be a place where playability will be enhanced. I am hoping the CP1/V-piano techniques will be applied to other sounds. I love that keyboard amplification is improving at the rate it is.

[Cygnus64]

I look at todays keyboards and wonder how everyone feels about the job keyboard manufacturers have been doing over the last 5 to 6 years.

 

 

On a positive note, I am glad to see that Roland and Yamaha have hooked up with Cakewalk and Steinberg. I think we will see the payoff in a few years when the technology is combined.

 

Cakewalk's Dimension Pro ships with like 7 gigs of samples for 150 bucks. It makes it kinda hard to get excited about that $1900 Rompler with 384mb of compressed samples. I think it's a great thing that in the future, these companies can deal in both software and hardware, and hopefully combine aspects of the 2.

[Bill H.]

Well I have to disagree with you on this. Kurzweil's sound is much less sample dependant than other manufacturers. VAST synthesis is so deep, that there is virtually no limit to how you can manipulate and transform samples. The PC3 is the one and only keyboard that blew me away from the first listen, and after owning it for 2 years, it sounds even better.

 

I was more referring to my recent visit with the SV-1, CP-1 and S70xs. Nothing to get a hard on about.

 

Well I'm not arguing over whether VAST is any good or not, but there's no denying that it's just a rehash of previous Kurzweil technology that dates back to the 1990s.

 

My reference to sample libraries is because I'm still hearing the same compressed samples with obvious loops in many common categories. Yamaha hasn't significantly redone their B3 samples since the original Motif. Roland hasn't since farther back than that. The Fantom G relies largely on old Hammond SRJV waves from the mid-90s.

[Dan O]

What I want is authentic sounds that can easily be accessed in real time. This is my big hang up with yamaha,roland and korg.

I just haven't seen or played anything that has taken my breath away.

 

 

 

Samples are cool, but you need a keyboard with a computer to access the authentic samples.

[Dan O]

What store can you walk into and play a Kurzweil. I can name one within a 150 mile radius from my home ( Chuck Levins ).

 

I go to GC and it's like the selection of keyboards is worse than it was 3 to 5 to 7 years ago. It's lame.

[timwat]

Only one here in the SF Bay Area that keeps Kurz in stock (that I know of) is Leo's Pro Audio. The local GC in Concord has always been awful in terms of inventory, the one in San Francisco is better, the one far away in San Diego (where my son goes to college) is far better. Bananas in San Rafael is decent but no Kurzweil.

 

I agree that that for some time the industry seems to have gotten stuck in "incremental revision" mode. But then, so have I.

[Ian Benhamou]

Samples are cool, but you need a keyboard with a computer to access the authentic samples.

 

I think it's time to move beyond. Samples are only the first ingedrient to making a playable expressive patch. Those samples then need to be processed and manipulated in real-time to make them come to life.

 

This was my point about Kurzweil. While VAST dates back to the 1990's and yes the triple strike piano is old (I know, I know) you did get a whole new set of string samples, including all individual sections and articulations, plus non-aliaising VA oscillators.

 

But that's besides my point, because VAST is old, the programmers were able to use 15+ years of programming experience and paradigms to put into the PC3. Although it is the same old samples, with a similar synth engine, it's definitely not the same sound.

 

You just have to play it to understand. Every patch is responsive and expressive. It's an instrument that begs to be played.

[ProfD]

I expect KBs to contain a facsimile of those 30+ year old staple sounds and synth sounds too. No problem there.

 

At the same time, I believe the technology exists that would make those sounds even better; enabling a KB player to lay hands on it and be inspired to play.

 

It should be no different than sitting down at an acoustic piano, electromechanical or synth of yesteryear and getting lost in it.

 

Every other muso can walk into a music store and do that with the latest iteration of their chosen instrument. KB players should have a similar experience. In turtle steps, I do think we are getting closer.

[Joe Muscara]

I go to GC and it's like the selection of keyboards is worse than it was 3 to 5 to 7 years ago. It's lame.

It's a mistake to base your perception of keyboards on what's available at the big box monopoly whose focus is clearly on another instrument and who has very little competition in the brick-and-mortar world.

 

It also may be in error to only look at the "big three" where there have been interesting products from other manufacturers such as DSI and Nord.

 

I'm not saying your original point is not valid, just that you have to look a little deeper. It's a frakkin' shame that most people's only exposure is at that one chain.

[kad]

The last keyboard that totally knocked my socks off was the Kurzweil K2000 - back in 1992. I've been a devout Kurzweil user ever since. Can't say anything else has really grabbed me...

[Dan O]

It's a shame that more manufacturers did not follow Alesis QS series by having affordable sound cards that could easily be added to a their product line. Roland had the idea, but the cost of the expansion boards was or is expensive. Alesis cards you could buy for $160 bucks.

[Dana.]

It's a shame that more manufacturers did not follow Alesis QS series by having affordable sound cards that could easily be added to a their product line. Roland had the idea, but the cost of the expansion boards was or is expensive. Alesis cards you could buy for $160 bucks.

Nord has made the card concept obsolete by offering free sounds for download. Alas, Yamaha and Roland haven't followed suit (though Korg has).

[Theo Verelst]

Huh?

[Dana.]

What don't you understand?

[DanS]

On a positive note, I am glad to see that Roland and Yamaha have hooked up with Cakewalk and Steinberg. I think we will see the payoff in a few years when the technology is combined.

 

Depending on what you're waiting for, Yamaha & Steinberg are already there. The XS series (not sure about Motif) can act as a control surface within Cubase. You can use transport buttons on the XS to control Cubase, scroll thru the song, select tracks, and use midi learn to control most, if not all of your soft synths. You can also use the XS as a soft synth within Cubase, and do all your editing directly from Cubase like any other soft synth. It's very cool.

[dongna]

It's a shame that more manufacturers did not follow Alesis QS series by having affordable sound cards that could easily be added to a their product line. Roland had the idea, but the cost of the expansion boards was or is expensive. Alesis cards you could buy for $160 bucks.

My Yamaha S90ES has 3 slots for expansion cards just like you describe (one of which I have filled with a PLG150VL).

 

Apparently the concept didn't catch on, though, as I read the slots were dropped from the new XS series.

[zephonic]

For me, the last 'wow' keyboards were the Nordlead (1&2) and the Roland XP80.

But there have been a lot of 'wow' softsynths, too many to mention.

 

[Ed A.]

Ian.. I feel ya. Exactly what this thread is about. Everything seems "oh hum".

 

That's pretty much how I feel about it. IMO, it just isn't the same way it was like 25-30 years ago. Back then, I couldn't wait to get the latest copy of Keyboard to see what new and exciting synth would be released. It seemed like there was something new happening every month. Now, about the only thing that interests me is using Logic softsynths like Sculpture & ES2 and maybe something like Waldorf's Largo. Hardware synths look like either all boring workstations or throw-back modular synths that aren't much different than what was available decades ago. That's probably one reason that I'm now less into synths and more into video production.

 

We now have amazingly powerful computers where developers can create new innovative synth architectures, but unfortunately, I don't see that happening.

For example, they could further develop physical modeling technologies that can create some fantastic new sounds, considering the processor power available today, or maybe something totally new.

 

[Mogut]

It's a shame that more manufacturers did not follow Alesis QS series by having affordable sound cards that could easily be added to a their product line. Roland had the idea, but the cost of the expansion boards was or is expensive. Alesis cards you could buy for $160 bucks.

Nord has made the card concept obsolete by offering free sounds for download. Alas, Yamaha and Roland haven't followed suit (though Korg has).

Huh?

What don't you understand?

DBon, you don't know jack! Yamaha HAS gotten rid of plug-in boards with the XS, and just last year kicked off a huge promotion called XSpand your world, which they released 100's of free patches. This is linked direct from there website http://www.yamahasynth.com/products/synthesizers/motif_xs/#options-accessories-anchor

 

People come to this forum for info, no one benefits from your bogus comments

[Dan O]

I gotta try out some Nord stuff. I have heard good things.

[Marzzz]

Last "wow" for me was the PEK. Next "wow" will be the Solaris. I have some "wow" for the new Rhodes....