The day I stopped playing digital pianos

[kanker.]

Once again Dave, I gotta say, when the piano sound just ain't working for me, I play Rhodes sounds. Suspending disbelief does wonders....

[Dana.]

it's really like playing a totally separate instrument altogether.

It's not like, it is! You need to accept it and move on already.

 

I'd spent all week on the piano with Nord sitting in its case.

Clearly that's the problem. You should prepare for gigs on the instrument you're going to be playing at the gig. Practice becoming comfortable playing on the instrument that isn't a Steinway. Eliminate the disconnect.

[Dave Ferris]

Once again Dave, I gotta say, when the piano sound just ain't working for me, I play Rhodes sounds. Suspending disbelief does wonders....

 

I know, I just hate rhodes though.

[WheelHead]

There is no comparison of a DP to a real piano...period...

Anyone mention feel? There are gigs that have an accoustic available, but after touching it and hearing a few notes, the DP comes out..that happens more than not..

 

And a V piano thru what?? I havent seen a V yet, Im sure I will get to try one.

 

 

"Through what" is a good question. I have a V Piano. I also have Ivory II, Pianoteq, Garritan Pro, True Pianos. V Piano (in my opinion, others may differ) blows them all away especially IF you know how to make some adjustments via computer for more realism.

 

DP vs acoustic reminds me of the clonewheel threads, imo. Audiences can't tell the difference or 99 percent of them to know a better clone from another and in some venues about 2 percent know what a Hammond is and the legacy let alone better clone.

 

A DP will always sound better to an audience in tune than an acoustic out of tune. Most of the pianos in my area like in previous decades are STILL out of tune. Hugh Sung (who promotes Pianoteq) sometimes plays Pianoteq via a grand midi pickup and the audiences generally don't get it with his speaker arrangement until he tells them and then goes back to acoustic.

 

W.

[mate stubb]

I think digital pianos will eventually catch up to where digital hammonds are today. That is to say, they will get good enough that they will sound and feel pretty much as good as a piano played thru speakers.

 

(Piano in the room == leslie in the room. That kind of realism is a way off still).

 

The breakthru will need to come mostly in the action. If they ever get one light and compact enough that fully models all the back check, escapement, and repetition mechanism behavior - and hook that up tightly to software which also supports it - then the player at least can feel connected to it.

 

That's the real battle - the player connection, not absolute 100% realism.

[Moon Zero Two]

I am with Kanker - I would rather play with a good rhodes or wurlie than a crummy sounding AP sound.

[WheelHead]

 

(Piano in the room == leslie in the room. That kind of realism is a way off still).

 

 

Maybe thats why I am addicted to using the 3300 Leslie (bass out to QSC sub that works magnificently with the 3300 great combo for organ bass playing) with the VB3-2 as good as the onboard sim is (not going there with the Ventilator that I am a fan of). Blows my mind every time I play it as a great 'Hammond'.

 

About digital pianos: I have to say that I have a much higher view of the capability of a few than the acoustic purists. The Pianoteq ongoing project is also awesome.

 

W.

[kanker.]

Once again Dave, I gotta say, when the piano sound just ain't working for me, I play Rhodes sounds. Suspending disbelief does wonders....

 

I know, I just hate rhodes though.

Out of curiosity, which do you hate worse - acoustic piano 'sounds' or Rhodes? I can totally sympathize with your feelings on both matters. Heck, once I'd gotten so sick of playing Rhodes sounds after getting sick of playing piano sounds that I switched back to piano sounds and it was almost like heaven.

[Outkaster]

I think digital pianos will eventually catch up to where digital hammonds are today. That is to say, they will get good enough that they will sound and feel pretty much as good as a piano played thru speakers.

 

(Piano in the room == leslie in the room. That kind of realism is a way off still).

 

The breakthru will need to come mostly in the action. If they ever get one light and compact enough that fully models all the back check, escapement, and repetition mechanism behavior - and hook that up tightly to software which also supports it - then the player at least can feel connected to it.

 

That's the real battle - the player connection, not absolute 100% realism.

 

This exactly!

[ProfD]

I was getting nothing but compliments from our small but very attentive crowd last night--wow sounds just like an acoustic, I've never heard better, etc., etc. I was very courteous and said thanks a lot, very much appreciated.

DF, host the gigs in your studio. That way, there is no gear schlep and it is Steinway D all the way.

[Dave Ferris]

Once again Dave, I gotta say, when the piano sound just ain't working for me, I play Rhodes sounds. Suspending disbelief does wonders....

 

I know, I just hate rhodes though.

Out of curiosity, which do you hate worse - acoustic piano 'sounds' or Rhodes? I can totally sympathize with your feelings on both matters. Heck, once I'd gotten so sick of playing Rhodes sounds after getting sick of playing piano sounds that I switched back to piano sounds and it was almost like heaven.

 

I'd rather play DP sounds but they have to sound good -and they do, I'm pretty satisfied with the sound. I'm sure it sounds great out front. My issues are with the player connection and the stuff that goes with all that.

 

Regarding EPs-I'm just SO rhodesed out from another lifetime. I didn't like them back then and I like them even less now. For someone like me they are a big drag.

 

#1- you have to seriously re-think every chord voicing since the thicker the voicing is, the worse it sounds on rhodes. All the chords have to be open and voiced very simple. None of the intricate voice leading I do ever comes out on a rhodes. Also some of what I do is based on Classical music/piano specific, I won't say *tricks*, but shadings and hues that are only inherent to the acoustic piano-it doesn't work on rhodes at all.

 

I can't say I hate 'em totally of course. I like something for a different flavor to break things up like on latin or funk tune but all night..... just not my thing anymore.

 

#2-the single note lines don't sustain or take on the same character as a piano (or even a dp) so consequently my flow is not the same. I think it's harder for me (and probably a lot of people like me) to have your own sound or personality on rhodes too. It seems whenever I start blowing, all I hear is either a Chick or Herbie thing, so again consequently everything sounds like a poor imitation. It's hard for me to get out of that headspace and into *my sound* when playing rhodes.

 

#3-Basically for me, the instrument is very limited in its overall expressiveness and tonal/color options in an acoustic, swinging, jazz based genre. For straight 8th grooves and odd time sigs, Rhodes seem to fare better. For other players it can be a totally different ball game but even when I was playing them in the '70s and I couldn't play, I felt the same way. Now it seems even worse.

 

But I hear you, at least it is more real then a digital piano sound or sample. And I totally see the rationalization behind everyone's choice to go that route as opposed to try and get a faux piano sound.

 

The other night I think I would have felt a lot better about things had the rhythm section been firing on all cylinders. I've had many very good nights with a DP and felt good about my playing. I think it was just a bad night for me. Best to forget about it and just move on.

 

I was getting nothing but compliments from our small but very attentive crowd last night--wow sounds just like an acoustic, I've never heard better, etc., etc. I was very courteous and said thanks a lot, very much appreciated.

DF, host the gigs in your studio. That way, there is no gear schlep and it is Steinway D all the way.

 

Man that would be great ! Never have to leave home.. Unfortunately my studio is only 20' X 20', which is actually pretty big by LA standards.. We had a small crowd the other night but I don't think they all would have fit in there. But yeah that would be the way to go. House concerts are becoming more popular out here. I'm getting emails from friends in N. Ca, Oregon and the Seattle area where house concerts and wineries are the only gigs they are doing.

 

I need to win the lottery and open up my own club....

[c4]

Anyone played an alpha piano yet? 97 keys, wireless pedals and a 60 gig VSL sound library..

[Dana.]

Anyone played an alpha piano yet? 97 keys, wireless pedals and a 60 gig VSL sound library..

For $36,000, one could buy a baby grand and retain someone on salary to maintain it.

[Dana.]

Best to forget about it and just move on.

To a CP5.

[kanker.]

I'd rather play DP sounds but they have to sound good -and they do, I'm pretty satisfied with the sound. I'm sure it sounds great out front. My issues are with the player connection and the stuff that goes with all that.

 

Regarding EPs-I'm just SO rhodesed out from another lifetime. I didn't like them back then and I like them even less now. For someone like me they are a big drag.

 

#1- you have to seriously re-think every chord voicing since the thicker the voicing is, the worse it sounds on rhodes. All the chords have to be open and voiced very simple. None of the intricate voice leading I do ever comes out on a rhodes. Also some of what I do is based on Classical music/piano specific, I won't say *tricks*, but shadings and hues that are only inherent to the acoustic piano-it doesn't work on rhodes at all.

 

I can't say I hate 'em totally of course. I like something for a different flavor to break things up like on latin or funk tune but all night..... just not my thing anymore.

 

#2-the single note lines don't sustain or take on the same character as a piano (or even a dp) so consequently my flow is not the same. I think it's harder for me (and probably a lot of people like me) to have your own sound or personality on rhodes too. It seems whenever I start blowing, all I hear is either a Chick or Herbie thing, so again consequently everything sounds like a poor imitation. It's hard for me to get out of that headspace and into *my sound* when playing rhodes.

 

#3-Basically for me, the instrument is very limited in its overall expressiveness and tonal/color options in an acoustic, swinging, jazz based genre. For straight 8th grooves and odd time sigs, Rhodes seem to fare better. For other players it can be a totally different ball game but even when I was playing them in the '70s and I couldn't play, I felt the same way. Now it seems even worse.

 

But I hear you, at least it is more real then a digital piano sound or sample. And I totally see the rationalization behind everyone's choice to go that route as opposed to try and get a faux piano sound.

 

The other night I think I would have felt a lot better about things had the rhythm section been firing on all cylinders. I've had many very good nights with a DP and felt good about my playing. I think it was just a bad night for me. Best to forget about it and just move on.

Thanks for the answer man, makes sense.

[David Loving]

I was getting nothing but compliments from our small but very attentive crowd last night--wow sounds just like an acoustic, I've never heard better, etc., etc. I was very courteous and said thanks a lot, very much appreciated.

DF, host the gigs in your studio. That way, there is no gear schlep and it is Steinway D all the way.

 

Guy in my neighborhood does that with folk singers