The day I stopped playing digital pianos

[fjzingo]

I think that if digital piano makers matched their keyboards with what they feel is proper amplification of their products, we'd have less problems.

 

Hammonds were designed to use a Leslie and that worked out pretty well.

http://www.stevesmusic.com/bmz_cache/d/dad6e12a03e6b9eafc1dc389a4244950.image.223x109.jpg + http://www.guitarampinfo.com/blog/images/orange_amp.jpg = FABULOUS!

 

Good looking match, huh?

 

And they say I have a hard time dressing myself in the mornings. PSHAAAWW.

 

 

mmmmmmm nice combination....you can just add the yellow M3 on the top tier and you're sorted

[ProfD]

I think that if digital piano makers matched their keyboards with what they feel is proper amplification of their products, we'd have less problems.

 

Hammonds were designed to use a Leslie and that worked out pretty well.

http://www.stevesmusic.com/bmz_cache/d/dad6e12a03e6b9eafc1dc389a4244950.image.223x109.jpg + http://www.guitarampinfo.com/blog/images/orange_amp.jpg = FABULOUS!

 

Good looking match, huh?

 

And they say I have a hard time dressing myself in the mornings. PSHAAAWW.

 

Those are the makings of a Skittles combo. Ken Kesey would be so proud.

[JcSr56]

I'm a guitar player of 48 years, who has owned/been playing DP's for only one year; so I fully understand my position among you who have been playing for years.

 

I think I can say, without fear of successful contradiction though; that string instruments produce a sound that will be difficult to mimic in the near future, if ever.

 

Violins,guitars,harps,ect. have a natural sustain that comes from the striking of the strings, in whatever form that may be.

 

Never having grown up playing an acoustic piano though, makes it easier for me to love my RD700gx. I only wish I had "found" piano playing long ago.

 

John Sr.

[fjzingo]

Guess what a piano got some strings attached as well

 

glad you are happy with you're digital, you'll catch up quick I'm sure.

 

/Fred

I'm a guitar player of 48 years, who has owned/been playing DP's for only one year; so I fully understand my position among you who have been playing for years.

 

I think I can say, without fear of successful contradiction though; that string instruments produce a sound that will be difficult to mimic in the near future, if ever.

 

Violins,guitars,harps,ect. have a natural sustain that comes from the striking of the strings, in whatever form that may be.

 

Never having grown up playing an acoustic piano though, makes it easier for me to love my RD700gx. I only wish I had "found" piano playing long ago.

 

John Sr.

[augerinn]

Although I can understand the OP, I cannot relate. Alas, a DP (Yamaha Clavinova CLP 820) is the only thing I've ever known. To me, it's wonderful, and my main go to instrument in my crowded music room.

 

There was a time when I had an upright, but it's been decades....literally....decades since I've played a "real" piano.

 

 

[fjzingo]

Try a decent one and you'll know

 

 

Although I can understand the OP, I cannot relate. Alas, a DP (Yamaha Clavinova CLP 820) is the only thing I've ever known. To me, it's wonderful, and my main go to instrument in my crowded music room.

 

There was a time when I had an upright, but it's been decades....literally....decades since I've played a "real" piano.

 

[wmp]

I think there are plenty of keyboard players, and even folks who think they have a piano, who don't really know what a piano is. If I had not been driven nuts by junk resembling pianos when I was a kid, nuts enough to become a piano tuner, I would have no idea myself. I had to tune boxcars full of Acrosonics and do a lot of MASH work on beat up, worn out, dried out, poorly maintained, scaled down versions of the real thing before I got my hands on anything resembling the real thing. I've never been in the class of citizen who could afford to own and maintain the real thing, nor am I in the class of player who deserves it. I just got away with pretending for a while when I was providing tuning services and rental pianos to those folks.

 

The day I stopped playing acoustic piano was that tragic day in 1990 when I sold my last piano, an outstanding Yamaha C3, hand picked by a picky mofo who uncrated and tuned a lot of them. I actually selected it for Lyle Mays, but he opted to save a few bucks and got a G3.

 

Out of the few dozen pianos I've run into on gigs and in studios in the last twenty years, only one C7 was usable. A few others would have been nice if they were well maintained. I'd enjoy a real nice piano more than I'd enjoy a bus full of naked ladies with Guinness on tap, but I can't afford, and have no room for either.

 

Better for me to forget what a piano is to the extent possible and enjoy the tuning stability. My Kurzweil doesn't measure up to the real deal, but it sure beats my mom's Gulbransen.

 

The day I after stop playing digital pianos, my sister will show up here looking to sell them.

 

[ITGITC]

I'd enjoy a real nice piano more than I'd enjoy a bus full of naked ladies with Guinness on tap...

CERTIFIABLE.

 

Hey ProfD - WMP is certifiable.

 

I think you'll agree... He is disregarding one of man's Basic Needs for survival: air, food, shelter, water, and Guinness on tap.

 

Ken Kesey would not let this one fly over the cuckoo's nest.

 

http://gigfy.com/GreatGuinness.jpg

 

Wait. There was something about a bus full of naked ladies...

 

[JcSr56]

Guess what a piano got some strings attached as well

 

glad you are happy with you're digital, you'll catch up quick I'm sure.

 

/Fred

I'm a guitar player of 48 years, who has owned/been playing DP's for only one year; so I fully understand my position among you who have been playing for years.

 

I think I can say, without fear of successful contradiction though; that string instruments produce a sound that will be difficult to mimic in the near future, if ever.

 

Violins,guitars,harps,ect. have a natural sustain that comes from the striking of the strings, in whatever form that may be.

 

Never having grown up playing an acoustic piano though, makes it easier for me to love my RD700gx. I only wish I had "found" piano playing long ago.

 

John Sr.

 

I was most certainly including the piano, as that was the thread within the thread. I seem to detect a bit a sarcasm in your reply. If that's the case; you are probably a member of the group that feels that DP's are an abomination.

 

I may never reach your skill level, and that's OK also; but I'll also never own a grand(acoustic)piano because of space limitations. I understand the magic in an acoustic piano; I've heard them in Church, and in concert, and I wish I could afford/accomadate one; but I can't.

 

I'm new to the game, and yet the debating has already grown old. So I guess I'll never catch up. But I've never had anything but respect for the players here, so try to be nice. Sheesh!

 

If I've mis-interpreted your reply, I offer my apology in advance.

 

John Sr.

[wmp]

Hey ProfD - WMP is certifiable.

Hard to believe it took you this long to figure that out. Y'all a bit slow down there in Mayberry. I'm guilty, but not guilty as charged.

 

I think you'll agree... He is disregarding one of man's Basic Needs for survival: air, food, shelter, water, and Guinness on tap.

I'd love to have a digital piano that was as close to the real deal as one of these.

 

http://B3and88.com/img/gcan.jpg

 

 

[ProfD]

Hey ProfD - WMP is certifiable.

I'm guilty, but not guilty as charged.

 

I think you'll agree... He is disregarding one of man's Basic Needs for survival: air, food, shelter, water, and Guinness on tap.

You cats are funny. Making me hungry and thirsty. To h*ll with an acoustic or digital piano. I'll be the bus driver.

[fjzingo]

Didn't mean to sound sarcastic, Ithats why I added this

 

Perhaps i catch up on guitar in a few years time...

 

Guess what a piano got some strings attached as well

 

glad you are happy with you're digital, you'll catch up quick I'm sure.

 

/Fred

I'm a guitar player of 48 years, who has owned/been playing DP's for only one year; so I fully understand my position among you who have been playing for years.

 

I think I can say, without fear of successful contradiction though; that string instruments produce a sound that will be difficult to mimic in the near future, if ever.

 

Violins,guitars,harps,ect. have a natural sustain that comes from the striking of the strings, in whatever form that may be.

 

Never having grown up playing an acoustic piano though, makes it easier for me to love my RD700gx. I only wish I had "found" piano playing long ago.

 

John Sr.

 

I was most certainly including the piano, as that was the thread within the thread. I seem to detect a bit a sarcasm in your reply. If that's the case; you are probably a member of the group that feels that DP's are an abomination.

 

I may never reach your skill level, and that's OK also; but I'll also never own a grand(acoustic)piano because of space limitations. I understand the magic in an acoustic piano; I've heard them in Church, and in concert, and I wish I could afford/accomadate one; but I can't.

 

I'm new to the game, and yet the debating has already grown old. So I guess I'll never catch up. But I've never had anything but respect for the players here, so try to be nice. Sheesh!

 

If I've mis-interpreted your reply, I offer my apology in advance.

 

John Sr.

[fjzingo]

You guys are funny guiness and buses full with naked women ..... you just reminded me of real life.

 

Time to get back on the bus

 

/Fred

[MAJUSCULE]

I'll be the bus driver.

 

I'll be the shitty guitarist with the women on top.

[Analogaddict]

My favorite DP solution is a good weighted keyboard and Ivory on my Receptor.

[frogmonkey]

I think that if digital piano makers matched their keyboards with what they feel is proper amplification of their products, we'd have less problems.

 

Hammonds were designed to use a Leslie and that worked out pretty well.

 

I'm pretty sure Mr. Hammond thought the Leslie was an abomination. Maybe instrument designers don't know what good amplification is?

 

Sigh... The only acoustic piano gigs around Vermont are the top-tier theater gigs. They all have the words "Center For The Arts" or "Opera House" in their name. If you could get a gig at every one of them, you could do like 10 gigs a year.

[LS35A]

I've been playing a DP for about 10 months. Recently a switch went off in my head and now I just can't stand it anymore. It does not sound like a piano to me.

 

If I hook up external speakers, or use really good headphones, it just sounds worse. It's like I'm hitting switches and little light bulbs are going on and off.

 

So I hit the piano store last week and played some acoustics and some newer/better DP's. The Yamaha N2 sounded and felt VERY MUCH like a 'real' piano to me....but it was TEN GRAND.

 

I ended up spending less than half that on a Yamaha upright.

 

My digital days are over....

[Dave Horne]

LS35A, welcome to the forum ... it's a slow night here, everyone's drinking eggnog.

 

I was aware of the AvantGrand but not aware of the N2 which I have since learned is the little brother of the AvantGrand. Thanks for bringing that up.

 

link to Yamaha's N2 page

[Dave Ferris]

I've been playing a DP for about 10 months. Recently a switch went off in my head and now I just can't stand it anymore. It does not sound like a piano to me.

 

If I hook up external speakers, or use really good headphones, it just sounds worse. It's like I'm hitting switches and little light bulbs are going on and off.

 

So I hit the piano store last week and played some acoustics and some newer/better DP's. The Yamaha N2 sounded and felt VERY MUCH like a 'real' piano to me....but it was TEN GRAND.

 

I ended up spending less than half that on a Yamaha upright.

 

My digital days are over....

 

Welcome to the forum and congrats on the Yamaha Upright purchase. Those are very nice pianos--the U1 or U3s. They have newer "T "models out that I haven't played but I'm sure are great.

 

I've played the N2 maybe 5 or 6 times. It's VERY nice indeed. For action/touch I still prefer my '97 "Gran Touch" GT-2. The sound system in the N2 is far superior to the GT-2 though perhaps giving a more realistic playing experience. I don't think I'd pay 10K for it though.

 

I think you did the right thing. I would take a quality Yamaha upright any day over the N2 or even the Avant Grand. A lot of people that just play electronic keyboards never have that inner ear connection with acoustic pianos and acoustic music in general. Having grown up with both I think the longer you play a good acoustic piano the worse (thinner, harsh, strident, overall less sophisticated) electronic keyboards sound---at least that's the direction my ears have gone over the last 10 years.

[Dave Ferris]

.

 

I've played the N2 maybe 5 or 6 times. It's VERY nice indeed. For action/touch I still prefer my '97 "Gran Touch" GT-2. The sound system in the N2 is far superior to the GT-2 though perhaps giving a more realistic playing experience. I don't think I'd pay 10K for it though.

 

I think you did the right thing. I would take a quality Yamaha upright any day over the N2 or even the Avant Grand.

 

Apologies--I haven't played the N2, only the flagship N3 "Avant Grand".

 

What I thought was the N2 is actually the Modus:

http://www.yamaha.com/yamahavgn/CDA/ContentDetail/ModelSeriesDetail.html?CNTID=563785&CTID=600150

 

Yamaha has just too many models, very easy to get confused. In any case I'll still take a newer U1 or U3 over any of those home DPs.

[Jamie Finstad]

A local Guitar Center ran the Roland V-Piano through a KC350 too.

 

I think Roland has a say in how their products are displayed. At least that's the story a sales rep gave me when I suggested he hook up the V-Piano to something other than a KC350!

 

Even as DPs continue to improve, I still consider them to be a different instrument from an acoustic piano. At least that's what I tell myself when I sit down to play one - I'm less dissapointed and frustrated that way. They'll continue to get better and better, but I don't know how they'll replicate the sound emanating from the sound board and the physical feedback you get from playing the real thing. It's like feeling an acoustic guitar vibrate against your chest vs and electric guitar screaming from an amp - they're two separate instruments.

 

LS35A - congrats on the Yammie upright. The first thing I did when I graduated from university was to purchase a U1. No car, crappy furniture, but I had a piano!. It was recently supplemented by a C5 grand. It's great having a piano on every floor of the house.

 

Jamie

[MikeT156]

If you play live; are not independently wealthy, or a KB player with a major act.....then compromises HAVE to be made in order to play in public. You can't expect a DP to sound EXACTLY like a "real" acoustic piano any more than you can expect to have an acoustic piano be as portable as a DP, have a transpose button, or he ability to plug it directly into a sound system.

 

Don't drive yourself nuts buying one DP after another trying to get just a little closer to "the real thing". All you will do is empty your wallet and keep the MI vendors in $$$.

 

The best two words I can think of are "reasonable expectations".

 

 

Mike T.

[JeffLearman]

Right Mike.

 

I've played a lot of real pianos that totally sucked.

I've played a lot of digital pianos that left me cold.

I've played a few digital pianos that were delightful.

But there's no argument that today's best digitals don't compare with a good acoustic piano.

There's also no argument that they're more practical for the gigging musician, and not just for the convenience. I've played with miked pianos, and that rarel works well for loud gigs.

 

Digitals keep getting better, but they'll always be sound coming from speakers, which I doubt will ever be comparable to the real thing. But in recordings, they can sound better than real pianos, unless you have a great space, great mics, skill at recording, and quite a bit of time to set it up.

[Dave Horne]

This is going back many years but I remember when the first piano module was introduced ... or at least the first one that caught my attention. It was a Roland module and I was very impressed by it ... and that was 20+ years ago ... ? I heard it used on concerts and by wedding bands and I was impressed at the time.

 

There's an expectation of a sound when you are actually playing the controller; when you are the listener the glaring deficiencies are not that great. That's been my experience.

 

I'll hear a guy on a job playing his lame piano module and it doesn't sound all that bad; it's when you sit down and play that same module when it really sounds bad.

[MikeT156]

Well guys, in all the years I have been playing music, I only remember being in two places that had an excellent acoustic piano that was in very good tune and in excellent playing condition. Most hotels and motels I played back in the old days had pianos, but the major of them where dust collectors and sometimes doubled as empty beer glass repositories for customers. Granted, I never really played in top-of-the-line rooms where a good piano could be counted on, but then, I was never an accomplished "pianist" anyway. So I've always used electric pianos that could be heard in a rock or electronic music environment. I agree that there's nothing like a GOOD acoustic piano for real music and mood, but as I said, I never played those rooms anyway. Its less of a struggle for me, I don't rely on other people to provide the real thing.

 

 

Mike T.

[fjzingo]

 

I'll hear a guy on a job playing his lame piano module and it doesn't sound all that bad; it's when you sit down and play that same module when it really sounds bad.

 

I can really relate to that..perhaps there should be two different experiences from a DP one for the listener and one for the player,

 

I play sometimes at places with great pianos, but I think I've been to lazy lately so I have used my DP out of convenience.

 

Perhaps I was tired of the whole electric bands when starting this thread, enjoying more the acoustic stuff...

 

If it's not to early for a new years promis, next year I will play acoustic pians as much as I can. If not possible I'll bring a rhodes...If necessery bring a DP. Also it's time to start up a new piano trio again it's been 15 years since I had one

 

/Fred

[carterparks]

Acoustic gigs are not really available locally. So I have to schlep keyboards.

 

That said, when it comes to playing music for joy at home, you'll find me on my ~1950s Acrosonic Spinet with 3 broken keys (but in tune) rather than my PC3x.

[JeffLearman]

I'll hear a guy on a job playing his lame piano module and it doesn't sound all that bad; it's when you sit down and play that same module when it really sounds bad.

That's true of any kind of instrument, and certainly not limited to digitals. For me, it's especially true of acoustic guitars.

 

On the other hand, I often hear digital pianos played by others that almost give me the hives -- like the GEM PRO2 played by Joe Jackson on another thread here: sounds great except when he's playing single notes near the middle octave and then ick.

 

But the more important thing is that great playing overcomes almost any limitatoin of the instrument. The music matters more than the instrument.

[JeffLearman]

Hey Carter -- I grew up with an Acrosonic spinet from the 40's; it was my mother's. Actually, I'd rather play my Ensoniq MR76. Better action, better tone, more responsive dynamics. As pianos go, that spinet was a beautiful piece of furniture. ;-) But, I sure am glad I had it to play on growing up! It's better than an NE2, at least.

 

It's in my sister's house now. My mother doesn't miss it either.

[Dave Ferris]

A bump from the past. Wishful thinking at best but after last night's gig, it seems apropos.

 

I've got by my calculations a tad over 6K invested into my DP, speakers and di/preamp. The sound is first rate but there's more to this then the sound.

 

I was getting nothing but compliments from our small but very attentive crowd last night--wow sounds just like an acoustic, I've never heard better, etc., etc. I was very courteous and said thanks a lot, very much appreciated.

 

But the bottom line is I felt my playing was severely compromised to the point of almost not wanting to play. On all my solos I kept feeling this barrier where the creative flow would just stop. It was a new rhythm section and in places things didn't jell all that well but overall the keyboard for me kept getting in the way...

 

The feedback (or lack of) I get from playing a DP is just so different then a piano, it's really like playing a totally separate instrument altogether. The single notes don't sing out or sustain like I'm used to. Chord voicings don't sound the same. All my lines seem forced, I don't have the technical control at faster tempos like I do on acoustic..it was a mess.

 

I'd been practicing fairly hard all week for this gig as I knew people would be coming out and listening. I'd spent all week on the piano with Nord sitting in its case. I was trying to take a break from playing it and just generally put some space between me and thinking about dps in general-- like maybe I should go back to the CP5 or just stay with what I have for the time being. I'm not all that certain the results would have been any more positive with the CP5.

 

None of this is fresh news, all just typical stuff I know but just ranting on here. I should go practice, maybe I'll feel better.