Jazz+ Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 I am doing a low volume outdoor solo piano gig with my Roland digital piano and a little amp. They asked me if I need a 1000 watt or a 2000 watt generator. Any experts know? UPDATE : I have the Hondas available for me. My amplifier max consumption is 80 watts and Keyboard max is 22 watts. Will the 1000 watt Honda be fine??? http://www.hondapowerequipment.com/p...&category=play Honda Inverter Technology "Honda's inverter technology means stable, clean power in a smaller, lighter package. By taking the raw power produced by the generator and passing it through a special microprocessor, Honda generators are able to produce a sine wave equal to or better than your household power. This means you can even operate the most sensitive electronics without fear of interruption." Harry Likas was the Technical Editor of Mark Levine's "The Jazz Theory Book" and helped develop "The Jazz Piano Book." Find 700 of Harry’s piano arrangements of standards for educational purposes and jazz piano tutorials at www.Patreon.com/HarryLikas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B3bluesman59 Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 1000 watts should be plenty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mate stubb Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 Powering lights too? Moe --- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazz+ Posted November 3, 2009 Author Share Posted November 3, 2009 No lights, just a Roland FP4 (22 watts)and a little 80 watts max amp. Harry Likas was the Technical Editor of Mark Levine's "The Jazz Theory Book" and helped develop "The Jazz Piano Book." Find 700 of Harry’s piano arrangements of standards for educational purposes and jazz piano tutorials at www.Patreon.com/HarryLikas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocket Man 2 Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 It depends on how many amps you're going to draw. Volts X Amps = Watts OR, Amps = Watts / Volts But here's the rub: Power transformers are rather inefficient; so, double what you think you'll need to have a reserve. The most important thing is that the generator puts out steady consistent voltage. Cheap (and older) and heavy industry (eg. welding) generators that do not have constant voltage can harm your equipment from "under" (low) voltage. Also, remember to ground the generator to a substantial "earth" ground as a safeguard to you. That means using a wire of substantial size to connect the frame of the generator to a copper ground spike that has been driven into the earth (or some well grounded water pipe with a clean, non corroded connection.) Perhaps this will help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smanzella Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 If you are going to power your equipment with a generator, I would recommend you also use a UPS to balance out the spikes and dips generators are known to produce. Also, a toroid based filter will go a long way in filtering out line noise that can damage digital electronics. Yamaha CP-73, Hammond SK Pro 73, Yamaha MODX 7, Roland Fantom 06, Roland VK-8M, Yamaha FS1R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazz+ Posted November 3, 2009 Author Share Posted November 3, 2009 Thanks Harry Likas was the Technical Editor of Mark Levine's "The Jazz Theory Book" and helped develop "The Jazz Piano Book." Find 700 of Harry’s piano arrangements of standards for educational purposes and jazz piano tutorials at www.Patreon.com/HarryLikas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bridog6996 Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 I don't think you'd have too much to worry about, but using a power conditioner would be strongly advised. I think I'd more worried about how LOUD the generator is. Newer generators are being made quieter, but some are still pretty loud. If you've got a gas generator churning away at around 70-80 db, you'll have some annoying competition in the noise department. My YouTube Channel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Horne Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 I think I'd more worried about how LOUD the generator is. That would be my concern as well. No guitarists were harmed during the making of this message. In general, harmonic complexity is inversely proportional to the ratio between chording and non-chording instruments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SK Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 I am doing a low volume outdoor solo piano gig.. Ask them if they want you to play softer than the generator. (no, don't ask them that. ) CD: http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/stevekessler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanL Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 Then you get into having the generator so far away so you can't hear it that the voltage drops by the time it gets to your gear. Live: Korg Kronos 2 88, Nord Electro 5d Nord Lead A1 Toys: Roland FA08, Novation Ultranova, Moog LP, Roland SP-404SX, Roland JX10,Emu MK6 www.bksband.com www.echoesrocks.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillWelcome Home Studios Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 Okay, you've got a couple of different issues going on here. First, generators that are not designed for theatrical or movie work are stupid loud. Second, if you remote the generator far enough away that the noise is acceptable, you then need 10 or 12 gauge cable to run the power from that generator to you. (You can rent this from a theatrical lighting house or sound company) You might have better luck, if there is a nearby carpark, in renting a power inverter. You hook it up to the battery, leave the car running, and it converts the DC auto power to 110ACV. Not much juice there, and you'll still need to use 10 or 12 gauge supply lines. Probably the best answer is to take an acoustic piano. But what is missing from your entire presentation is size of audience, size of space, desired coverage, desired SPL, and any local conditions (wind, wildlife, nearby audible distractions...) that you may have to overcome..... "I believe that entertainment can aspire to be art, and can become art, but if you set out to make art you're an idiot." Steve Martin Show business: we're all here because we're not all there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazz+ Posted November 3, 2009 Author Share Posted November 3, 2009 OKAY! I have the Hondas available for me. My amplifier max consumption is 80 watts and Keyboard max is 22 watts. Will the 1000 watt Honda be fine??? http://www.hondapowerequipment.com/products/models.aspx?page=models§ion=P2GG&category=play Honda Inverter Technology "Honda's inverter technology means stable, clean power in a smaller, lighter package. By taking the raw power produced by the generator and passing it through a special microprocessor, Honda generators are able to produce a sine wave equal to or better than your household power. This means you can even operate the most sensitive electronics without fear of interruption." Harry Likas was the Technical Editor of Mark Levine's "The Jazz Theory Book" and helped develop "The Jazz Piano Book." Find 700 of Harry’s piano arrangements of standards for educational purposes and jazz piano tutorials at www.Patreon.com/HarryLikas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProfD Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 The 1,000 watt generator is fine. Thankfully, your power requirement isn't near "59 dB @ rated load 53dB @ 1/4 load". The bad news is, you will hear that generator humming along. Definitely grab a long 10 or 12 gauge extension cord. PD "The greatest thing you'll ever learn, is just to love and be loved in return."--E. Ahbez "Nature Boy" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SK Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 Sounds like a solution. I might be tempted to do some drone tunes in the key of the generator. So how's that amp working out? CD: http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/stevekessler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProfD Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 Sounds like a solution. I might be tempted to do some drone tunes in the key of the generator. Great minds...I started to mention transposing everything to the key of the generator. Might as well make the best out of the backgound ambience. PD "The greatest thing you'll ever learn, is just to love and be loved in return."--E. Ahbez "Nature Boy" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeT156 Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 I don't believe anyone has mentioned it, be sure the generator has a solid EARTH GROUND. Don't just plug into the generator without a ground. Mike T. Yamaha Motif ES8, Alesis Ion, Prophet 5 Rev 3.2, 1979 Rhodes Mark 1 Suitcase 73 Piano, Arp Odyssey Md III, Roland R-70 Drum Machine, Digitech Vocalist Live Pro. Roland Boss Chorus Ensemble CE-1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazz+ Posted November 3, 2009 Author Share Posted November 3, 2009 Is a ground neccessary? How do I do that? Harry Likas was the Technical Editor of Mark Levine's "The Jazz Theory Book" and helped develop "The Jazz Piano Book." Find 700 of Harry’s piano arrangements of standards for educational purposes and jazz piano tutorials at www.Patreon.com/HarryLikas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProfD Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 Is a ground neccessary? How do I do that? Read the above post by rocket man. PD "The greatest thing you'll ever learn, is just to love and be loved in return."--E. Ahbez "Nature Boy" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillWelcome Home Studios Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 Is a ground neccessary? How do I do that? It is done by driving a six foot copper rod into the ground, and attaching the proper clamp to the rod, which will hold a wire (pref 6 gauge or better), which screws on to the generator on the appropriately marked grounding terminal. It is a pita. Probably costs about $ 20 to do, but driving that rod..... whew! And doing it without help and without breaking the sledge hammer is tough. No a ground isn't strictly speaking, necessary... you could allow yourself to be the safety ground. Once. Just to give you something to work from, a standard wall circuit is usually able to handle 2400 watts, which is 20 amps. (though the plug is only rated at 15 amps, almost everyone has upgraded their circuit breakers from 15 to 20 amps.) We usually round off the number to 2000 watts, just to have a little head room, and because breakers are electro mechanical devices, which wear over time, and can trip early. Better to leave a little headroom. So your 1000 watt generator is giving you roughly 9-10 amps. At the plug on most gear is a wattage draw listing. You add up all the wattage from the gear that you have and if it is under 1000, you are good to go. Most band gear doesn't draw much, with the exception of amplifiers and conventional lighting equipment. "I believe that entertainment can aspire to be art, and can become art, but if you set out to make art you're an idiot." Steve Martin Show business: we're all here because we're not all there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SK Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 Or a lighting rod, tree or kite with a wire running to the keyboard. The hiring party should be providing that generator and setting it up. I'd guess available power outlets are in the contract. Telling them the amount of wattage needed is all Jazz+ should have to do, and tell them it must be properly grounded. Several ultra-long industrial extension cords running to the nearest available outlet might be easier. CD: http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/stevekessler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Horne Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 No a ground isn't strictly speaking, necessary... you could allow yourself to be the safety ground. Once. No guitarists were harmed during the making of this message. In general, harmonic complexity is inversely proportional to the ratio between chording and non-chording instruments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazz+ Posted November 3, 2009 Author Share Posted November 3, 2009 Can someone describe in technical terms the scenario where a ground would be beneficial? I am not about to drive a copper post 6 feet into the ground Harry Likas was the Technical Editor of Mark Levine's "The Jazz Theory Book" and helped develop "The Jazz Piano Book." Find 700 of Harry’s piano arrangements of standards for educational purposes and jazz piano tutorials at www.Patreon.com/HarryLikas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazz+ Posted November 3, 2009 Author Share Posted November 3, 2009 Can someone describe in technical terms the scenario where a ground would be beneficial? I am not about to drive a copper post 6 feet into the ground Harry Likas was the Technical Editor of Mark Levine's "The Jazz Theory Book" and helped develop "The Jazz Piano Book." Find 700 of Harry’s piano arrangements of standards for educational purposes and jazz piano tutorials at www.Patreon.com/HarryLikas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JpScoey Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 ' Ok - here's the way to make sure you're properly protected against any electrical misfortunes..... 1. Set up your gear, on a metal stand, in a large puddle. 2. Hot-wire your keyboard/amp into the nearest lamp-post. 3. Wear a suit of armour. 4. Carry a nine-iron in one hand, an umbrella in the other, and tie the above-mentioned kite to your waistband. 5. Hope for lightning to strike. DO NOT WEAR RUBBER-SOLED SHOES. For any youngsters reading - please do not try this in your own home..... only outside . . John. some stuff on myspace Nord: StageEX-88, Electro2-73, Hammond: XK-1, Yamaha: XS7 Korg: M3-73 EXpanded, M50-88, X50, Roland: Juno D, Kurzweil: K2000vp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProfD Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 Can someone describe in technical terms the scenario where a ground would be beneficial? I am not about to drive a copper post 6 feet into the ground Here is a technical term....lightning. You do not want to deal with ungrounded, high-powered source of electricity. It is not the same as the shock obtained from simple static. PD "The greatest thing you'll ever learn, is just to love and be loved in return."--E. Ahbez "Nature Boy" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonksDream Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 Proper grounding is always essential. otherwise you run the risk of electrocution, especially outdoors. I understand not wanting to drive a friggin' 6 foot stake in the ground though. I've done it and it's a drag! Here's a question for the forum: In this case is it possible to connect the gennie's ground to an existing ground? Is that safe? Instrumentation is meaningless - a song either stands on its own merit, or it requires bells and whistles to cover its lack of adequacy, much less quality. - kanker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazz+ Posted November 4, 2009 Author Share Posted November 4, 2009 There won't be puddles or lightening... I wear rubber souls. Harry Likas was the Technical Editor of Mark Levine's "The Jazz Theory Book" and helped develop "The Jazz Piano Book." Find 700 of Harry’s piano arrangements of standards for educational purposes and jazz piano tutorials at www.Patreon.com/HarryLikas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. Dan Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 Puddles and lightning aside.... 1) Safety: If you are touching anything that is touching the ground, and the generator's "ground" drifts from earth ground, you will complete the circuit. That means the current will flow through you. That's bad. This will most likely not happen, but it most definitely can. UL requires proper grounding for personnel safety. Your UL rating on your gear is void if not plugged into a properly grounded power source. Which means if you die from electricution, that UL symbol don't mean squat if the circuit wasn't grounded. 2) Sound Quality: Have you ever had a ground loop? They are notoriously hard to nail down and can cause massive hum/buzz/noise/whatever in your signal. Everything else will be referenced to earth. If the power is, also, no ground loop. I once played a place where we were getting absolutely massive rediculous 60Hz buzz through the FOH and our IEM's through our own monitor rack. I went through painstaking analytical systematic process of eliminating sources, trying ground lifts, etc, until I ended up plugging everything on stage into one power strip... problem went away. The grounding was for shit in the place. By everything being grounded from the same source as FOH it went away. We don't run much onstage anyway so we can run through a power strip. If you got amps, forget it. Dan Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Horne Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 There won't be puddles or lightening... I wear rubber souls. Not quite sure what that means. We're still going strong on this thread ... ? No guitarists were harmed during the making of this message. In general, harmonic complexity is inversely proportional to the ratio between chording and non-chording instruments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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