kanker. Posted October 3, 2009 Share Posted October 3, 2009 Depends... absolutes don't apply to every musician, and great drummers are rare. I've worked with maybe 10 or 11 great drummers tops - but the rest, "so many drummers, so little time". It was kind of a joke, but yeah - playing with a great one ruins you. Quote A ROMpler is just a polyphonic turntable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SK Posted October 3, 2009 Author Share Posted October 3, 2009 playing with a great one ruins you. Yeah, you get spoiled, which is still better than never being spoiled. Quote CD: http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/stevekessler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zephonic Posted October 3, 2009 Share Posted October 3, 2009 Great drummers spoil you, lousy drummers spoil everything else. Quote local: Korg Nautilus 73 | Yamaha MODX8 away: GigPerformer home: Kawai RX-2 | Korg D1 | Roland Fantom X7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gangsu Posted October 3, 2009 Share Posted October 3, 2009 At times like this it's important to realize that some people say things that other people never would - for very different reasons. Kanker, that was kind of funny, and I did kind of laugh. Now give it to me! the link, that is. PM sent. Quote "........! Try to make It..REAL! compared to what? ! ! ! " - BOPBEEPER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SK Posted October 4, 2009 Author Share Posted October 4, 2009 Great drummers spoil you, lousy drummers spoil everything else. Perfectly said. And i know kanker was joking in fun. kanker's cool. I was just trying to keep the usual bad rap for drummers (and guitarists) on this forum from developing in this thread. Probably an unnecessary reaction on my part. Here's my first DP test again. I won't leave it up since it's not my song or a reharm, but I did try to play something on it. I used some of a Jarrett style, since it lends itself to that approach. see edit: Quote CD: http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/stevekessler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazz+ Posted October 4, 2009 Share Posted October 4, 2009 OK I got one, just to try to keep the thread alive. It's rather rough, just a turn the tape on and play kinda thing, more unharm than reharm... someday my prince will come. Another lovely tune destroyed! http://www.divshare.com/download/7627012-f82 I find this style very intriguing. What is Beeboss thinking to play like this counterpoint? Is there some sort of system to the approach? It sounds so free but he is maiantaing some semblance of tonalities. How would you show somebody to play in this style? Reminds me of Jarrett the first few bars but then more of the Tristano school, it's sounds like free counterpoint... but what is he thinking? It reminds me of Dave Frank, the former student of Tristano that teaches in NY. Quote Harry Likas was the Technical Editor of Mark Levine's "The Jazz Theory Book" and helped develop "The Jazz Piano Book." Find 700 of Harry’s piano arrangements of standards for educational purposes and jazz piano tutorials at www.Patreon.com/HarryLikas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
....... Posted October 4, 2009 Share Posted October 4, 2009 ... someday my prince will come. Another lovely tune destroyed! http://www.divshare.com/download/7627012-f82 I find this style very intriguing. What is Beeboss thinking to play like this counterpoint? Is there some sort of system to the approach? It sounds so free but he is maiantaing some semblance of tonalities. How would you show somebody to play in this style? Reminds me of Jarrett the first few bars but then more of the Tristano school, it's sounds like free counterpoint... but what is he thinking? It reminds me of Dave Frank, the former student of Tristano that teaches in NY. I would say that I wasn't really thinking of anything, certainly not scales or chordal structures. I just sat down and let my hands do what they wanted, for better or worse. I had a vague idea of the tune there but thats all. Theres no secret to free improvisation, you just do it. I don't really think you can really teach free improvisataion, but it is something you can learn yourself, something that you can get better at, at least when you get sarted on free palying. After a while the whole concept of better or worse just drifts away and it is just about what you play in the moment, and then the moment is gone. I couldn't play that again if I tried, but thats good though as next time something else will happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piano4U Posted October 4, 2009 Share Posted October 4, 2009 I would say that I wasn't really thinking of anything... IMO that statement is the essence. It is not about thought. It is a channeling of creative energy, and art as a form of expressing one's self - and BTW David, I really enjoyed listening to it. ;-) Quote My YouTube Videos My Lot2Learn Jazz Piano Web Site Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucasb Posted October 4, 2009 Share Posted October 4, 2009 After a while the whole concept of better or worse just drifts away and it is just about what you play in the moment, and then the moment is gone. I couldn't play that again if I tried, but thats good though as next time something else will happen. Fabulous statement! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linwood Posted October 4, 2009 Share Posted October 4, 2009 Nice Steve! Glad to see you're up and running and making music. Now, don't you wish you'd gotten that 20 years ago? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gangsu Posted October 4, 2009 Share Posted October 4, 2009 Hey Steve, that's very pretty. And congrats on the successful crash course. wow, that didn't take long! Beeboss, nice to see and hear you again too! And Dave, for better or worse, you had me singing Sweet Lorraine all day. Nice playing as always. Quote "........! Try to make It..REAL! compared to what? ! ! ! " - BOPBEEPER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SK Posted October 4, 2009 Author Share Posted October 4, 2009 Thanks for the comments Dave, Sue and Linwood. I know ballads are not on the radar today. Normally people gage playing by chops on up tempos, but ballads can be a tougher litmus test. I'm glad the sound difference was noticeable, Dave. This higher recording level thing is new for both of us, and I look forward to hearing your results. Beeboss, your approach always fascinates. I remember when you posted that, I heard it as a loose, peripheral version of the song. But the calm confidence in it was deceptive - it's rare to hear free playing approached in a consistently methodical, understated way. Free playing is so broad, whatever we strive for and reach, is what it is. Nice Steve! Glad to see you're up and running and making music. Now, don't you wish you'd gotten that 20 years ago? Absolutely, if it had been available, and thank you for guiding me to it. 20 years ago my 'analog audio workstation' was a boom box with built-in mics. Quote CD: http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/stevekessler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucasb Posted October 4, 2009 Share Posted October 4, 2009 Interesting your comments about ballads. I am not hearing that at all around here. Maybe I'm out of the loop? I dunno. I love playing ballads, I think it's still in favor in some circles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SK Posted October 5, 2009 Author Share Posted October 5, 2009 Interesting your comments about ballads. I am not hearing that at all around here. Maybe I'm out of the loop? I dunno. I love playing ballads, I think it's still in favor in some circles. I meant it as an observation, that ballads are just not as prevalent in society today - since aggressive music has become popular. Of course, it can't take anything away from the musical depth of a well played ballad at all, as you know. Quote CD: http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/stevekessler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucasb Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 OK, you meant just overall in all popular music. Gotcha, thanks Steve! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morizzle Posted October 11, 2009 Share Posted October 11, 2009 Here's a little reharm of "My Romance" I just did for lessons tomorrow. This time tried to stay in the style of the tune rather than throw all the fancy chords I know at the tune, which is my usual crappy approach. Any words of advice are welcome. http://www.divshare.com/download/8859662-155 Quote It's not a clone, it's a Suzuki. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piano4U Posted October 11, 2009 Share Posted October 11, 2009 Very nicely done! I like some of the surprises in there and the inner voice leading. Nice playing and enjoyable to listen to. :-) Quote My YouTube Videos My Lot2Learn Jazz Piano Web Site Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ndhjazz Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 Hi guys...I'm new to the Forum. But I've listened to countless Reharms you guys have done, and they're fantastic! From the early "Here's That Rainy Day" to the dissonant "How Insensitive" to the most recent "My Romance" and God, you guys know how to re-stimulate the mind! I'm normally a sax / clarinet player, but Bill Evans & Oscar Peterson are two of my biggest heroes...even on sax. Ideas are ideas...right? Anyway...I have a couple of reharms myself (albeit crappy root-heavy piano playing), and I'd like some feedback from all of you wonderful, thought-provoking cats. I'm just not that hip with DivShare and all that. I have them recorded through Garage Band and saved as an MP3 file. If any of you guys can lead me in the right direction to post, it would be greatly appreciated. thanks in advance, -Nathan (ndhjazz) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ndhjazz Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 Ok...I think I've figured out the DivShare thing. Kindly let me know if you can hear it. http://www.divshare.com/download/8958405-03a Thanks, -Nathan (ndhjazz) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marino Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 A bit of homework... Limiting myself to the songs I had not heard yet: Steve... you're the usual mad genius. The combination of "Waltz for Debby" and "Nice Work" is intriguing and hilarious at the same time. "Rainbow" is great too, if a bit dark (sounds like that rainbow isn't going to last too long! ). Dave Ferris, I find your playing intense and inspired. "Beatrice" is tops, but "Pensativa" is at the same level. "Whisper Not" has a different atmosphere, but always well conducted, with a logical succession of episodes. Lucas - I didn't recognize "Chelsea Bridge", but it doesn't matter... it stands very well as an independent piece of music. Then there's the veritable Teddy Wilson style of Dave Horne on "Sweet Lorraine". I don't think I've ever played that song, even though I've heard it from a bunch of jazz greats. The style is nailed, with a few harmonic twists. And the surprise of the month... Beeboss' "Someday my Prince". I find your style quite inspiring. That kind of 'Bachian' purity of the single line, and the power you put into creating the whole solo were a great, pleasant surprise. Hats off. Ndhjazz: Your link does work. Your "Softly" reharm sound nice - maybe just a tad simple/fusiony for my ears. But it should sound great in a group context. Now for the good news... a few days ago I got a spare 5 minutes in a recording studio. The piano was miked, so I finally played my reharm of "Alfie", which I had written for the latest KC comp but wasn't able to record in time. Very rough, but good enough for your golden ears... Now I have to find the time to add a little (fake) bass at home, then I'll post it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ndhjazz Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 Thanks marino for the feedback, and to let me know you could hear it. Here's the other reharms I've done: http://www.divshare.com/download/8958391-1a7 (Blue Bossa) http://www.divshare.com/download/8958401-0d3 (Maiden Voyage) http://www.divshare.com/download/8958389-929 (Autumn Leaves) http://www.divshare.com/download/8958399-fa5 (Out of Nowhere) http://www.divshare.com/download/8958397-697 (My Romance) ...any comments please. I really want to learn, grow, and get better at this side of things all the way around. Thanks so much, -Nathan (ndhjazz) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SK Posted October 20, 2009 Author Share Posted October 20, 2009 Welcome Nathan, nice playing and glad you're enjoying the thread. And thanks Carlo. I never do Rainbow, in fact, that may be about the only time I've played it. Just tried something different, although the first 3 chords came from Mary Lou Williams' version - I obtained a copy from my piano tuner who used to tune her home piano. "Waltz for Debby" was just a rewritten melody of that tune, but I quoted Nice Work in the solo. Interesting how this thread has developed: the actual definition of a reharm is taking a song and completely reharming it, which wasn't my original intention with the thread. I was initially just thinking of us sharing chord substitutions, which might aid players in finding new things to play on standard tunes. Sometimes a single chord can open up a whole new approach. So until this thread, I'd rarely thought of reharming an entire tune, since substitutions let you endlessly apply yourself to a song without planning it as a reharm. Quote CD: http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/stevekessler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ndhjazz Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 True SK. When taking classes in college, they always taught tri-tone substitutions, and altered changes for a blues (diminished chords, turnarounds, as well as Parker Blues Changes) or altered changes for "Rhythm Changes". I've even read in Pettinger's Bill Evans Biography that Bill would take a tune like "My Romance" and play the head in 3/4 in "C" taking his first solo ride in 4/4 in "F", and the next ride in 3/4 in "Bb" and so on alternating the time signature while going through the cycle of fifths. I've also heard of cats taking their own harmonic concepts to the chords of a standard while comping (extentions, etc). But I've never really thought about changing a tune completely until I found this thread. It's REALLY opened up my mind, and I'm really glad there are cats out there like you guys. Making musicians actually THINK...what a concept?!?!?! I was just tinkering around, and I came up with this for "Stars Fell on Alabama" http://www.divshare.com/download/8963378-881 It's taken in a romantic / Jarrett direction. -Nathan (ndhjazz) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ndhjazz Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 So, here's my "Satin Doll" for anyone interested: http://www.divshare.com/download/8983601-6df -Nathan (ndhjazz) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ndhjazz Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 Green Dolphin St. : http://www.divshare.com/download/8988591-cf4 -Nathan (ndhjazz) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SK Posted October 22, 2009 Author Share Posted October 22, 2009 Nathan, nice open feel on Stars Fell. Thanks for posting those. Anything that rejuvenates our playing is great. As to comments/suggestions, there are no rules of thumb on an approach. I'm not into criticizing music anyway - my tastes generally go towards musical surprises and harmonically rich stuff. And a simple tune can also be 'harmonically rich' enough with few chords. "Green Dolphin" - I liked the descending chords at the end of the first A and the nebulous, displaced tonal center effect of the second A. It sounded like it went to Fmaj7 for a second which was a surprise. But I've never really thought about changing a tune completely until I found this thread.I hadn't either. General thoughts to anyone: Recently I find myself a little conflicted on the concept of reharms, if it means a total revamping of a tune. Sure, nothing wrong with expressing a song in a new way when it's musical, and in jazz solos we explore a tune in a myriad of ways. And I'm all for stretching on a song, but when the song is someone else's, the head should be somewhat faithful to the original. Perhaps if I'd changed the term "reharm" to simply "arrangement" it may be more acceptable to take liberties - although I've done some arrangements, they've never been my focus. This thread has been mostly experimental for me and certainly has its rewards. I got to dabble in the total reharm approach on some songs. But I prefer to write new songs, or just explore a tune openly through improvisation and substitutions. As I said earlier, the original thread idea was for chord substitutions, but by my choice of the word "reharm", it led toward a deeper reharm path. Quote CD: http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/stevekessler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ndhjazz Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 Well...for what it's worth, I played a gig this weekend in which the guitar player called "All of Me"...a tune that we've all probably played a million times. But after he called it, he said "...but put the "Ladybird" turnaround at the end." It made the tune really fresh and lively. So there's a substitution for anyone interested. -Nathan (ndhjazz) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SK Posted October 22, 2009 Author Share Posted October 22, 2009 Yeah, it would give a freshness to the tune. And anything that helps get you away from "All Of Me" is helpful. There's a gazillion turnarounds - could be their own thread. Quote CD: http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/stevekessler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marino Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 anything that helps get you away from "All Of Me" is helpful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ndhjazz Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 Just had a quick idea, and I recorded it really quick on the piano. What if you combined "Spiral Dance" and "Footprints"? http://www.divshare.com/download/8997150-666 -Nathan (ndhjazz) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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