The POWERED SPEAKERS Thread

[SK]

I realize you're looking at powered speakers only, but for the record, the AccuGrooves are true bass cabinets that are also full spectrum speakers. For their price and size, they're amazing. Even their smaller cabinets seem to have more bass response than larger standard bass cabinets.

[Mark Schmieder]

There was a blemished E/V on zzounds for $875 the other day, but it is now sold. The cheapest price I've seen for one is $1175.

 

I think for now I'm going to use my line mixer to merge my bass and keyboard signals into my Aguilar GS112 cabinet, even though I tend to turn its high driver down most of the way. A long-term decision for something so important should not be made on a whim.

 

No interest in stereo, as I have gone that route twice and discovered it is almost impossible to get a proper stereo setup on stage given the conditions of other sounds nearby. I feel it does more harm than good, as one could really mess up one's sound going to the audiencce based on misperceptions.

 

Unfortunately, in my all-originals project, the leader likes to use stereo a LOT (we go out as duplicated mono signals in my cover band, for a variety of reasons). He likes to do a lot of hard-panning. We've gotten bitten before by an FOH engineer who didn't properly mono-sum the signal, and lose a lot of the sound. But yes it can be fun with synth sounds to do call/response going between left and right speakers... in the studio, at least :-).

[Mark Schmieder]

I had a discussion with the resident expert at Bass Northwest in Seattle today. He is one of the most knowledgeable people in the country with regards to bass and keyboard amplification. He feels there is no need for me to get a separate amplification system for keyboards and that all that I need to do is set up an AB/Y splitter/merger to use my existing bass system with the keys, eventually upgrading to the self-powered Bergantino IP112 12" cabinet as my ultimate amplification solution (I am nervous about my next outdoor gig, as separate power amps, integrated amps, and combo amps tend to overheat and shut down -- especially at hot summer wedding gigs).

 

I will experiment some over the next few days to see if I can get accurate rendition of keyboards with my current bass setup, as I probably need to re-engage or boost the high driver (tweeter) to have any hope of even response. Knowing that my current setup has a bit of a mid scoop, I could also compensate by pumping keyboards through one of those two half-rack Summit Audio tube preamps that I bought on sale at Leo's Pro Audio last month.

 

At any rate, it looks like I may accelerate the upgrade to the Bergantino IP112 cabinet and put my Stewart World 1.2 power amp and Aguilar GS112 12" speaker cabinet and bag up for sale soon.

 

At any rate, I am not going to bother investing in a separate speaker for on-stage keyboard amplification. When I saw how much that would cost to achieve reasonable quality, it got me to re-evaluating other approaches to the problem of hearing myself on stage when I play keys :-).

 

If any of you who live in the SF Bay Area are going through similar decision-making turmoil at the moment, feel free to get in touch with me later on to audition the Bergantino cabinet. Once our next outdoor gigs are finalised and confirmed, I may just bite the bullet, withdraw money from savings, and do it. Otherwise I may wait until closer to the next summer season.

[mikecorbett]

Hi all,

 

New guy here. I have read this thread for 2 days now and find myself head scratching. The local music store only carries Yorkville powered speakers, I'm renting one of them at the moment. Perhaps some of you guys could help me out with a general question as I have no opportunity to try out other speakers.

 

Heres my question.

 

How does the EV SXA360 compare to the JBL EON 15 in terms of bass response and overall volume? It being a 12 inch worries me. I play with a pretty loud rock band and my 250 watt 15 inch Yorkville thingy sounds pretty harsh at full volume. I know that size isnt everything...but I don't really understand speaker specs in real terms either. So, will the cheaper JBL EON be enough for me to have clear and loud monitoring on stage, or do I need to think about spending more money and going for the EV?

 

I'm playing a Nord Stage and A Fa 76. The wife aint too happy about the Stage so $$ is an issue..

[mate stubb]

I had a discussion with the resident expert at Bass Northwest in Seattle today. He is one of the most knowledgeable people in the country with regards to bass and keyboard amplification. He feels there is no need for me to get a separate amplification system for keyboards and that all that I need to do is set up an AB/Y splitter/merger to use my existing bass system with the keys,

 

This sounds like a good plan. Bass players seem to have mostly the same needs as keyboard players anyway. The two Accugrooves I just bought would probably make a bass player smile to play through.

[Mark Schmieder]

Don't get hung up on speaker size. What matters more is how well engineered the cabinet/enclosure is. An efficient 12" design will almost always sound better than an equivalent 15" design, but it takes more engineering to get it to that level. In recent years, more and more manufacturers have been improving their enclosure designs and amp to speaker power matching to where they can achieve good bass response with a single 12" design.

 

Speaker size starts to make more of a difference once you deal with crossovers and dedicated subwoofers. But without a subwoofer in your setup, clarity and quick response matter the most, as we hear the first harmonic more clearly than the fundamental anyway. Nailing the fundamental is the job of the subwoofer, which can help in a dance music scene but in standard rock settings tends to not be very important.

[mikecorbett]

Don't get hung up on speaker size. What matters more is how well engineered the cabinet/enclosure is. An efficient 12" design will almost always sound better than an equivalent 15" design, but it takes more engineering to get it to that level

 

So what your saying is that here is something inherintly better about a smaller speaker, if its well designed? Or was that a typo? Thats great if a 12 incher will suffice, I just got back from another gig where the drummers cymbals and the guitarists amp obscured my monitor towards the end of the night

 

Although I'm gratefull for your reply, and its interesting, It didn't really answer my question. In fact I had mentioned in my post that I knew size wasn't everything, so I thought it was clear that I wasn't "hung up on it". I just dont have access to these monitors for my own tests and shall have to buy for afar, and make the buying desicion based on whatever information I can glean from the net! Yikes!

 

So, can anyone tell me, will a JBL EON 15 suffice and/or would I benifit greatly from upgradeing to the aforementioned EV. I presume the EV is sonically superior from what I've read and that is indeed tempting, but I wondered whether it will be as LOUD as the JBL...

 

Thanks for your understanding, I'm a keyboard player...

[smitty70]

for the money, I have been very happy with the JBL EON2s. They have plenty of head room and very good sound quality. I play with drums/guitar/bass and if it gets too loud for the JBL, it's too loud. They are durable, have basic mixer/eq and are somewhat light. For a band setting, I think they are a great choice.

[mate stubb]

So, can anyone tell me, will a JBL EON 15 suffice and/or would I benifit greatly from upgradeing to the aforementioned EV. I presume the EV is sonically superior from what I've read and that is indeed tempting, but I wondered whether it will be as LOUD as the JBL...

 

Thanks for your understanding, I'm a keyboard player...

 

No, nobody can tell you that. You seek an absolute objective answer from us, but everybody's situation is unique. We can only give you guidelines...

[Mark Schmieder]

It's simple physics: smaller speakers can respond more quickly to transients, thus preserving more detail. But as with everything, there are always trade-offs. The design goal of a full range speaker is generally to maximise the current efficiency and transient handling while also extending the range and providing a flat response. It sounds so easy on paper :-).

 

There are no absolutes; use your ears. My point is just that the most "visible" specs of any speaker are not as relevant as many people think. Ideally we could do A/B comparisons but that isn't practical as most high-end equipment is special order only. So we rely on feedback from our peers instead, trying to parse what is important to our own needs.

 

In many ways, the enclosure is more important than the driver (up to a point). Most drivers in the industry are sourced from less than half a dozen manufacturers. Even my own company started that way, but for many years now has made its own (this allows us to innovate with non-standard designs).

 

Having said that, regardless of design, there are some inherent characteristics of 12" vs. 15" drivers that at least subtly affect the final sound even with the best engineering applied. Similarly, many people will only buy an enclosure that uses an Eminence driver, or a Celestion driver. I have used both over the years and laugh at the hysterical/extreme views of each camp. The materials can also affect the sound in ways that are not what one would call transparent but which might be musically pleasing.

 

If you have a sound that you like, maybe find out what it is about that sound that you like, and this might help you form an opinion about whether you have a personal preference for certain driver sizes or manufacturers. I'm personally agnostic that way.

[mikecorbett]

So, can anyone tell me, will a JBL EON 15 suffice and/or would I benifit greatly from upgradeing to the aforementioned EV. I presume the EV is sonically superior from what I've read and that is indeed tempting, but I wondered whether it will be as LOUD as the JBL...

 

Thanks for your understanding, I'm a keyboard player...

 

No, nobody can tell you that. You seek an absolute objective answer from us, but everybody's situation is unique. We can only give you guidelines...

 

...and the guidelines are greatly appreciated! I have now read this entire thread 4 times, its a darn good thread. I think I shall be renting a Yorkville NX55P as it seems to be very powerful and several people seem very happy with them. The fact that its the only powered speaker that my local store stocks is just a happy coincedence.

 

anyhow, I shall post a review of my findings after next Wednesday, my next gig.

 

Thanks chaps

[Griffinator]

B&O IcePower amps

 

How do I put this without sounding snyde?

 

(edit)

 

Tried it again below.

[Mark Schmieder]

I didn't even know B&O was still in the game.

[Griffinator]

Well, that's ok. I still managed to sound snyde even though I was trying not to.

 

Better way to put it:

 

What was your company's specific reason, Bennett, for choosing Bang and Olufsen amplifiers? They have a reputation for being far overpriced (in the consumer market) for the value they bring to the table.

[Mark Schmieder]

Much to my surprise, my Aguilar GS112 sounds way better for monitoring my keyboards than anything else I've ever tried -- including my KRK Rokit 6's with Rokit 10 subwoofer in my home studio (stereo vs. mono for the Aguilar).

 

The Aguilar's tweeter goes from 6 o'clock to 6 o'clock -- almost a full 360 degrees of control. I found the 9 o'clock position to be best for avoiding fret buzz on the bass while still giving a very even full frequency response for the keyboards.

 

The amazing clarity of this speaker driven by my Stewart World 1.2 power amp in mono-bridge mode, brings out more details in my playing and a more even tone than anything else I have ever used, so this will now be my combined bass/keyboard on-stage setup (as well as for rehearsals and home practice) until I save up money for the upgrade to the self-powered Bergantino IP112 12" cabinet.

 

The Aguilar GS112 was only around $360, if I recall. They also make a newer DB112 model that doesn't have the typical mid-scoop of a vintage bass styled speaker, for around the same price. I think I paid $500 or so for the power amp, and the 2u 1.6 model is only slightly more (as is the 2.1 model) and can also do dual mono as well as monoi-bridge and true stereo. All three models can be found easily on eBay for dirt cheap.

 

I don't mean to go off-topic with unpowered speakers, but am simply providing context for a powered bass speaker solution for keyboards, which is roughly twice as expensive as separates (and that's only when shelling out bucks for a mono setup). This may not be the best option for someone who doesn't play bass, only plays keyboards, and really needs a stereo setup.

[Dave Ferris]

Update on EV-SXA 360's :

 

They were pushed about as LOUD as I care to ever play last night.

(I'm still recovering from sonic overload today)

 

I was in a large club on a big open stage w/ an RnB Funk band I play with occasionally...they were cranking! I also had a line to FOH that helped. I was hearing a bit of the keys coming back through the singer's monitors (didn't recognize them), the sound quality was definitely inferior to what I was hearing w/ the EV's.

 

My S90 first generation sounded great. All the ep's, pads, organ, clav, synth stuff really opened up with plenty of headroom. The piano still wasn't great (that's the sound, not the speaker), but the "wide comp" patch seemed to cut the best. This was w/ my Mackie 1202. (2nd gig of the day...didn't want to haul the small rack w/ the Ashly) The strings, which I think is a weak point for this version of S90, sounded much fuller and resonant as well.

 

I've been happy so far, but this was the first volume/acid test.

Those little things passed with flying colors.

[Dave Ferris]

http://www.eaw.com/products/NT/

 

I had a chance to hear these last night on a gig.

Wow, they were great.

Used my S90 and went through the monitors in MONO (NT26) and the mains (NT59).

The vocals were killin'!

 

Downside...mucho $$$$!

[Floyd Tatum]

http://www.eaw.com/products/NT/

 

I had a chance to hear these last night on a gig.

Wow, they were great.

 

Any speaker that uses Guinness Focusing is alright in my books, I find a couple of Guinnesses help me to focus, too....

 

What's that? Gunness Focusing, you say? Oh. Never mind!

 

[Floyd Tatum]

http://www.eaw.com/products/NT/

 

Downside...mucho $$$$!

 

No kidding! I just googled 'em - $4,991 each!! Holy crap!

 

[Dave Ferris]

Yeah...they go for less than that but still..

mucho $$

 

If I had the dough though.....in a second!

[Jazz+]

Thanks for the update Dave Ferris.

 

It's good to know that you are pleased with your 36 pound EV SXa360s powered speakers.

I like mine too and am convinced that they are the best in their class.

 

Jazz+

 

.

http://www.thomann.de/prodbilder/166676.jpghttp://www.thomann.de/prodbilder/166676.jpg

[Dave Ferris]

Yeah...for an active, in that price range and size/weight, I haven't come across anything better.

 

 

[Jazz+]

I tried almost everything available under $2,000 a pair (Mackie, JBL, Yorkville, Yamaha, FBT, RCF, etc.) and none had the smoothness and clarity as the EV SXa360.

[ITGITC]

http://www.eaw.com/products/NT/

 

I had a chance to hear these last night on a gig.

Wow, they were great.

 

Any speaker that uses Guinness Focusing is alrgight in my books, I find a couple of Guinnesses help me to focus, too....

 

What's that? Gunness Focusing, you say? Oh. Never mind!

 

Dammit. You made me look.

 

http://www.dougquick.com/nbc_SNL_radner.jpg

 

I used to own a Guinea Pig.

 

http://regmedia.co.uk/2006/11/24/guinea_pig.jpg

 

Sorry.

 

And right here at Thanksgiving too.

 

That's not right.

[Floyd Tatum]

Mmmmm, yummy

 

I use a pair of JBL Eon 10 G2's. I can use just one for quiter gigs, or take both of them for louder gigs, or if I want stereo. They sound pretty good, and the size and weight couldn't be better. 26 lbs each, very compact. I got the JBL cases for them, handle on top, even easier to carry.

 

They've served me well for about five years now, maybe even more. But all good things must come to an end. I recently had to get one of them repaired, the tweeter stopped working.

 

I wonder what I'll get next.

[mate stubb]

Mmmmm, yummy

 

I use a pair of JBL Eon 10 G2's.

 

 

They've served me well for about five years now, maybe even more. But all good things must come to an end. I recently had to get one of them repaired, the tweeter stopped working.

 

I wonder what I'll get next.

 

You'll probably get these:

 

http://www.sweetwater.com/images/items/750/PRX512M-large.jpg

 

 

If you liked your Eon 10s, you'll LOVE these.

[Aidan]

At the moment, for smaller gigs (which are my more common fodder) I'm using a combination of the Roland FP-4's internal speakers (which aren't great, but give a little stereo imaging) and a single JBL EON10, which is working well for me. I'm tempted by the EV 360s but they are a lot more expensive and might be overkill for what I generally need. Currently mulling over purchasing a second EON10 to give me a similar set-up to Floyd's.

[Floyd Tatum]

Is anyone using the Yamaha STAGEPAS 500 system? If so, tell me what you think.

 

What does STAGEPAS mean, BTW? Is it an abbreviation of Stage P.A. System?

 

[Aidan]

Floyd, I've no experience with the Stagepas 500 but I did at one time own the original 300 model. I found the mixer to be noisy and the speakers unable to handle much poke in the bottom end of a digital. Your two EON10s would probably sound better than the Yamaha, if the quality of the 500 is similar.

[Floyd Tatum]

Aidan, yeah, I've seen reviews of the 300 series. But the 500 has 10" woofers, the amp has 250 watts per side, vs 150 watts per side in the 300 series. That could make a substantial difference, potentially making it competitive to the Eon 10 G2's. At 250 watts per side, it's actually more than the Eon 10 G2's, which are 175 per side.

 

I believe the 500 series also has normal pole mounts. I'd like to try them out, anyway.